1and1 legal help needed

[Filtered]

I had about 50 domains registered via 1and1.com. I was going to move them to godaddy so I turned off autobill. The next day they charged me for about 10 domains that were about to expire. The expire date had not yet arrived on most of the names but they charged me anyway since it was within their billing cycle. I had my bank reverse the charge becasue I had turned off autobill before they charged me. Anyway, they locked my account until I paid. I called and they said that some of the domains were within the billing cycle and I should pay the $20 charge they received for the chargeback or I could not access my account. Well, I lost several of my domains because they expired while i was locked out. I have other names that I can't access and would like to get away from 1and1. Do i have any legal standing. Can they lock me out of my account and prevent me from moving my names?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Seth

 

[labrocca]

What's the value of your domains? You have weight your options of paying for legal action, paying them to just get this sorted, or just moving on. Over $20...if you want the names...pay it.

 

[Dave_Z]

I had my bank reverse the charge becasue I had turned off autobill before they charged me.

Understandable, but eventually a mistake. Many registrars lock out their client
domain accounts due to that, regardless of the reasons why the client did it.

As Labrocca said, you'd have to weigh the costs between filing suit (which is
not guaranteed to bring the desired results) or paying the "fines" to have 1&1
unlock the domain names to allow you to move them out. But if you insist on
fighting out of principle, then good luck.

 

[Filtered]

I would have been ok but they charged me for domains that had over a month before they needed to be renewed..

 

[weblord]

it's a little bit too late now. but you can still request a chargeback for their wrong bills.

I would have been ok but they charged me for domains that had over a month before they needed to be renewed..

 

[frustinc]

Curious, did you contact 1and1 about the 'billing error' before doing the charge back?

 

[Filtered]

Yes, I did..They told me the billing was as it should be. I told them I would do a chargeback if it was not corrected. No response.

 

[Domagon]

How much did 1and1 charge you? $6.99 each or something high like $15+

If 1and1 only charged you $6.99 or so, then they're actually doing you a favor, since that's practically wholesale pricing ... and maybe even cheaper than GoDaddy, which I assume is $7.19 each when adding Icann's $0.20 fee. Even with a coupon code (assuming any work for xfer-ins), 1and1's price, assuming $6.99, is still nearly the same.

So in a nutshell, you end up with two extra years on the domains - why sweat it, since it appears, due to the fact you were seeking to transfer many of them anyways, you plan on keeping the names for awhile...

Or were many of the renewed domains those you weren't going to transfer, but planned to let expire?

For future reference, it's best to figure if a registrar has a credit card on file, they potentially could renew domains anytime, especially within 60 days of expiration.

Ron

 

[jberryhill]

Do i have any legal standing.

I would take 1and1's side in this one, and here's why.

When you turned on auto-bill, you agreed to whatever terms they apply to it. Your complaint is that they billed for renewal of the names a month in advance of expiration.

Now, I want you to think about your complaint for a moment. Your implied point is that they should not auto-bill renewals until closer to expiration.

Do you think that would be a good idea?

I don't, and from a customer service perspective, it would be a very bad idea. Across their millions of customers, most of them probably apply auto-billing at the time they register a domain name. During the course of a year, a certain number of those credit cards are going to expire or be lost and replaced. It is also a certainty that at any given time, some of those cards are going to be overlimit, or underfunded in the case of debit cards.

If you are relying on auto-renewal, you want the registrar to charge the renewal long enough in advance of the renewal date, so that if there is any problem with the auto-renewal billing information, then 1and1 can contact you about the problem and get it fixed before you lose your domain name to expiration.

Your problem is that you turned on auto-billing, and you didn't bother to check the details of how it worked. Then, when it worked as it should, you copped an attitude over a few dollars, and by demanding the chargeback incurred huge fees at their end. No, when you do a chargeback, the merchant is not just out for the amount charged.

They told me the billing was as it should be. I told them I would do a chargeback if it was not corrected. No response.

They were right. You were wrong. They don't owe you a response.

I had my bank reverse the charge becasue I had turned off autobill before they charged me.

They may have initiated the charge before it showed up on your statement, and they probably do an AV check on the card before initiating the charge. When you turned off auto-bill, and where they were in their billing cycle are probably two different things.

For future reference, it's best to figure if a registrar has a credit card on file, they potentially could renew domains anytime, especially within 60 days of expiration.

We have a winner!

 

[Dave_Z]

For future reference, it's best to figure if a registrar has a credit card on file, they potentially could renew domains anytime, especially within 60 days of expiration.

Or even ask how auto-renew works with them. I've seen too many people just
make too many assumptions, many of which turn out wrong.

 

[verbster]

When you turned on auto-bill, you agreed to whatever terms they apply to it.

Unfortunately, this is a valid argument (even if you believe the TOS are unreasonable). On the other hand, the TOS should include a description of renewal terms that are recognizable as such, and not post stuff that seems to imply otherwise: "If your domain is in our registry, then we will automatically renew the domain on your behalf just before the registration period is about to expire."

Now, I want you to think about your complaint for a moment. Your implied point is that they should not auto-bill renewals until closer to expiration.

Do you think that would be a good idea?

I don't, and from a customer service perspective, it would be a very bad idea.

lol...Pouring honey all over yourself in front of oncoming army ants is a very bad idea. Auto-renewing 30 days in advance is merely a financial strategy that benefits 1 and 1 more than it does their customers.

 

[jberryhill]

Auto-renewing 30 days in advance is merely a financial strategy that benefits 1 and 1 more than it does their customers.

Registrars have orders of magnitude more problems with names that are inadvertently allowed to expire, instead of names that are inadvertently renewed.

The order of difficulty and headache associated with an inadvertent expiration is also much greater than with an inadvertent renewal.

 

[Dave_Z]

Registrars have orders of magnitude more problems with names that are inadvertently allowed to expire, instead of names that are inadvertently renewed.

The order of difficulty and headache associated with an inadvertent expiration is also much greater than with an inadvertent renewal.

I'll attest to those. It's what made me eventually lose my hair. :D

 

[~ The 34 Year Buzz!!]

Any help is greatly appreciated...

They win this time...
Learn to plan ahead, and always allow more time.

 

[tricolorro]

I would take 1and1's side in this one, and here's why.

When you turned on auto-bill, you agreed to whatever terms they apply to it.

Mr.Berryhill,

Do you have any domains regged at 1and1?

Customers do not "...turned on auto-bill" , it's on by default.

If you look in the Control Panel , there is no way to turn Auto Renewal off.

You have to go to a separate site- Cancel.1and1.com - to turn it off.

Not everyone knows this ...and it is NOT intuitive.

Additionally there "system" of cancelling or turning off renewals was extremely confusing.

Besides, like any Registrar, 1and1 has 45 days AFTER expiration to request a
refund from ICANN for any domains that were auto renewed.

1and1 DOES NOT work in their customers best interest.

Why are you defending them...and their shady operation?

Did you know that 1and1 does NOT register domains in real time?

It could take 24 to 48 hours for your domain to be regged...that is if no one else registers it during that lag time.

No where on their site or in their Terms Of Service do they notify their customers of this registration lag time.

When I complained about it to their "customer service", the response was
"That's the way it is and there's nothing that can be done about it".

Just last month 1and1 was offering .US registrations and transfers for just $2.99.

A really good deal.

The only terms listed was that renewals would be at regular reg rates
which is fine and normal.

I regged 2 .US domains and transferred 2 in.

A couple of days later I went to transfer more .US domains into 1and 1 and saw new terms that said your .US domains would be auto-renewed
AND could not be transferred out for 1 year.

(My Correction: I misinterpreted their Terms apparently. You are signing up for a 12 month period but you can transfer out after 60 days. Their wording had to do with No Refunds if you cancel the domain before 12 months).

In case you don't know, 1and1 does not give any Redemption time.

Once expiration is reached ,you lose your domain(s).

Their policy on this .US deal would guarantee either that you renew your domain with 1and1 or you would lose it.

IMO, this policy is a violation of their Registry-Registrar Agreement as
ICANN does not allow denial of domain transfer based on the # of days
remaining.

(Correction: See thread below where Mr.Berryhill pointed out that .US domains are not under ICANN regulations).

New math:1and1 = 0

Patrick

 

[WGS_Thunder]

New math:
1and1 = 0

Patrick

:bingo:

 

[Domagon]

Quote of 1&1 Order page for an available .US domain I put in my cart:
(I've bolded some portions for emphasis)

Total Due Today: $ 2.99

International Customers:
Special conditions apply.
Payment Policy:
Your account will be automatically charged at the beginning of each billing cycle for the entire cycle. Billing cycles will continue automatically until the package is canceled by the customer.
In the event of a cancellation of a package in the middle of a billing cycle, the amount paid in advance will be reimbursed at a pro-rate per the Terms and Conditions of your contract.
Special Offers:
.us Domain: $2.99 for the first year
12 month minimum registration period applies.
Discount valid for first year only. After first year, standard pricing applies.
Limit 25 .info domains per customer.


Domains
A domain registration period is one year for .com|.us|.net|.org.|.name|.info|.biz|.cc|.mobi|.tv|.ws . A domain name must be paid for in full at the beginning of the registration period. For your convenience, domains are automatically renewed every 12 months from date of purchase unless, otherwise specified.
Domain name registration fees are not refundable.
For packages with multiple domains, extra features are available for one domain only.
Paid domain names can be transferred externally at any time, with no release fees, with the exception of .ws domain names (which do not allow for transfers).
An included domain (.com|.net|.org|.info|.biz) means the price of this domain is included in the package. The top level domains, .us|.name|.cc|.mobi|.tv|.ws, cannot be used as included domains.
Invoices for domains are created separately from invoices for packages and may take up to 5 weeks from the date of Package Registration to be generated.
Domain names are registered to the customer unless otherwise stated.
Due to United States Department of Commerce regulations, private domain registration is not available for .us domains.

Terms seem clear enough - it's stated domains auto-renew, it's stated that transfer out is possible, domain is registered to the customer, etc...

And, overall, their terms appear reasonable, especially for the .US promotion in which they make little or possible even lose money on.

Ron

 

[jberryhill]

Their policy on this .US deal would guarantee either that you renew your domain with 1and1 or you would lose it.

IMO, this policy is a violation of their Registry-Registrar Agreement as
ICANN does not allow denial of domain transfer based on the # of days
remaining.

ICANN doesn't have any policy control relative to .us domains.

You have a number of criticisms of 1and1 for which you apparently believe I am responsible in some manner, simply because I can understand why they would charge renewals in advance of expiration of a domain name.

I do not endorse or promote any registrar, and you are certainly welcome to your opinions about 1and1 or anyone else. In this particular instance, it seems the OP was able to turn off auto-renewal, but that he did not do so in advance of 1and1 putting the names into their billing queue for renewal.

 

[TheBulldog]

Not that it matters, but I turned off a 1&1 auto renew about 3 months before renewal date, and they still did it.

I transferred the name out, and made sure I left NO correct information in my account.

In my opinion, if I cancel a service, and then get charged for it 3 months later, it deserves a chargeback.

 

[verbster]

For your convenience, domains are automatically renewed every 12 months from date of purchase unless, otherwise specified.

This statement, and others like it, seem to be the key; they contradict the practice of renewing domains 30 days before the registration/expiration date.