Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

[webquest]

Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM

 

[imglobal]

Can we have a latest list of all the known shill bidding usernames at NameJet?

 

[Haykay2005]

Can we have a latest list of all the known shill bidding usernames at NameJet?

Hope namejet will do something meaningful to put the system back to normal

 

[Chris Hydrick]

HERE is a thread titled DomainSherpa Review – July 31: NameJet Safe to Buy/Sell? Getting Uncomfortable w Shane… I created about @DomainSherpa's follow up to this thread...

Per Michael Cyger's words, he believes this thread was a witch hunt. Yet, he doesn't know which accounts were actually blocked.

Can we have a latest list of all the known shill bidding usernames at NameJet?

For the record, Does anybody here know which accounts were actually blocked?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

https://www.namepros.com/threads/bidding-on-your-own-names-at-namejet.1030874/page-32#post-6268175

You will probably never hear from any of them again regarding this matter.

@hookbox - You posted the above quote of July 20th. This was the only day @Oliver Hoger posted in this thread.

On August 13th, I heard from Oliver via Direct Message. It brings me no pleasure to post direct messages, and though allowed per site rules, this is typically shunned upon in the community. There are exceptions. I believe this is one. Anyways, the reason for this post, is I'm wondering if anybody else received a message from Oliver requesting them to remove their posts about him?

 

[promo]

Its very very obvious what happened. No one was giving you the attention you needed and you acted up. I have children, I know the dynamics.

"Anyways, the reason for this post, is I'm wondering if anybody else received a message from Oliver requesting them to remove their posts about him?"

Anyways I am going against all ethics here and the reason; no one is giving me cookies anymore and I soooo need coookies. Otherwise no reason..

You are a sad self serving individual that convinced yourself you are doing stuff for other people when its obvious you are doing it all for yourself and your ego.

I think you should take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself how come you chose that username and what is says about your motives for being NP. You here to domain or to "grill" anyone unfortunate enough to cross your path?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

@promo Like I just told you, after you told me to GFY, in our "Off the record" DMs

"I understand your frustrations. When more comes out, maybe you will understand. Until then, I wish you the best."

 

[Chris Hydrick]

OnlineDomain.com recently wrote an interesting article about a suspicious auction (emojis.com) on NameJet HERE Apparently the auction winner got carried away in bidding, and contacted bidder #2 ten minutes after the auction ended. Take note of the bidding war at the last 5 minutes.

Show attachment 65925

I really appreciate Konstantinos keeping the pressure on by ending the article with the below quote. (The investigation referred to stemmed from this thread)


The comments seem to show others are looking into the widding bidders history.

Show attachment 65926

I tracked this domain in another thread. Perhaps you were right @anantj?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/em...me-100-bids-22k-already.1033058/#post-6299447

 

[promo]

@promo Like I just told you, after you told me to GFY, in our "Off the record" DMs

"I understand your frustrations. When more comes out, maybe you will understand. Until then, I wish you the best."

I got that part. You are privy to a lot of secret information that makes you act like an A-hole. Does not change the fact though.

Also you got the chronology a little wrong. The PM I accidentally posted was a response to your sad ass "If you only knew what I knew, you would know I am not an A-hole" message. Let me tell you, I know enough to draw that conclusion.

Who the F posts a PM in public without any justification? It was a nice polite PM and you already publicly posted the content of it two weeks ago in thread. So when no one reacts to your baiting you throw a hissy fit?

Anyways enjoy your "investigating" or posting stuff en mass. However you see your role.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Who the F posts a PM in public without any justification?

I believe there to be sufficient justification for this particular one. Some of what I have said recently is a pretense to understanding other information discovered.

I'm not sure that all know, but legal action has been threatened against me, and I intend to defend myself, and stand up for my first amendment rights. There are still attempts to resolve this out of the courtroom. There is still room for the truth to come out civilly, and for without the courts, everyone to come to an understanding of why what was said, was said. Again, until you know more, I don't expect you to understand the justification.

Further more, I find it hypocritical that you of all people are questioning the ethics of posting direct messages. I literally had a physical injury resulting from my actions that followed after I got on @uglydork's case for the contents of a Direct Message you publicly shared. See below in red

Yeah Dick. I know in your world you are the hero and I am the hating villain. Everyone is after you and your are the picture of innocence. The poor victim bullied by haters.

Being whiny does not make you right. In your world you only care about yourself, your wife and your two kids, or at least thats what you wrote on your site. So why do you now claim to care about the rest of us? Why do claim to have ethics when you clearly state that you dont care and clearly behave the same way?

EDIT
Regarding ethics.. Have a look at the PM convo we had on the 5th of March. I call some of your business tactics "underhanded" and you tell me "It's all about the sizzle" and "I would never rip off anyone but you have to be creative to get people to the sale sometimes.". Well I am pretty sure you are not a stranger to other underhanded tactics other than telling outright lies in public.

Also I noticed in the other thread you think its fine to post PMs from other people.. So lets hear again how much did you have "into hatred.com" ?

PM from 30th March:

"Sorry - didn't answer
I trust your judgment for prices - I paid under 1k for each

hatred.com - 500
womenssunglasses.com -900
Buzzenergy.com - 450
pendingdrops.com - 40"

Not quite 7K.

 

[Michael M]

First off to get it out of the way - I think that has gone way beyond personal here IMHO. I think the last few pages of this thread are BS, but the other 50 pages or so need to be read - and the information needs to be out there.

I was late to the game in reading this thread, but I have just sat down and read all 57 pages. Some eye opening things in here...

I personally only see this thread as trying to find how deep the problem with NJ goes. Some bidder handles or names may be brought up that are innocent - but there is nothing wrong the the NP's investigation continuing to make sure we rid the industry of as many bad players as possible.

People should be careful in how they word their posts, but they shouldn't be scared to post or look into things - even if it (or even more so) involves "big names." The fact a person claims their success openly in this industry puts more spotlight on that person - not less. That should be understood. If you are mentioned in this thread and are innocent - defend your name calmly - and understand the mob will do what a mob will do - but in the end it all gets sorted out and put in the open.

On the other hand - Everyone keep in mind people do have reputations that don't deserve to be destroyed over nothing. State your information carefully and only form personal opinions - try not to make things fact when that isn't established.

None-the-less my take:
Is shill bidding wrong? YES (in my personal opinion and hopefully everyone else's)
Was shill bidding in some form happening at NJ? YES (in my personal opinion but seems fact to me)
Has NJ been transparent in this situation? NO (in my personal opinion)
Do some people smell fishy? YES (in my personal opinion)
Have some people been cleared? YES (in my personal opinion)
Is there still more going on at NJ? PROBABLY (in my personal opinion)

But everyone back off the personal comments and stay on the subject at hand. This issue seems too big to let us be distracted this easily.

IMO - Way to go NamePros. Shame on you @NameJetGM for your response(s). I admit it may be the traditional way to respond to an issue like this - but I believe you would want to get as far ahead of it as you could.

@NameJetGM

Please step up ASAP and be as transparent as possible...

How big of shill operations were discovered?
Is the investigation still ongoing?
Is your backend really this outdated and even if so how can you not have simple updates done to properly administer your marketplace?
How many people have been banned so far in your investigation?
Was HKDN banned and how widespread is that one bidder's damage?
Are you open to an outside audit and if not will you publish a summary of your inside audit?
Were any big sellers of your inventory confirmed to have been involved in shill bidding or similar activities? Were they suspended as sellers?
What actual meaningful steps are verification are you putting in place to prevent this going forward?

^Just some ideas of subjects to address.

I want to end this by saying everything I said here is an opinion, not a fact. It is directed at no one and if you take it personally it is not because I aimed it at you.

 

[Michael M]

@Michael - Your database and research has proven extremely useful in tracking down facts. I understand there isn't much financial benefit or enough time in the word - but I believe you may be one of the few with a DB that could be used to root out shill and cooperative bidding on large scale across auction houses.

Have you ever considered such a project? I'd imagine NamePros could probably even do a successful GoFundMe campaign to raise funds if you were interested in putting together a watchdog algorithm and site. (and I am sure others such as myself would be willing to dedicate time or IT resources)

We seriously need a outside watchdog we can rely on in this industry to root out the bad players. It would benefit the industry as a whole in a major way.

 

[Michael]

@Michael - Your database and research has proven extremely useful in tracking down facts. I understand there isn't much financial benefit or enough time in the word - but I believe you may be one of the few with a DB that could be used to root out shill and cooperative bidding on large scale across auction houses.

Have you ever considered such a project? I'd imagine NamePros could probably even do a successful GoFundMe campaign to raise funds if you were interested in putting together a watchdog algorithm and site. (and I am sure others such as myself would be willing to dedicate time or IT resources)

We seriously need a outside watchdog we can rely on in this industry to root out the bad players. It would benefit the industry as a whole in a major way.

We had a big player in the industry offer to fund us to start a new company that would act as a third-party auditor for online auctions, but we declined.

The main reason is that I was only able to uncover Oliver's activity because he was extremely sloppy. If he had bothered to create a dozen accounts instead of bidding from his own, known, handle and was more careful with the WHOIS when he accidentally won his own names, it would have been borderline impossible for me to detect with the data I have access to.

If he had taken it a step further than that, and created accounts from different IP addresses and used prepaid debit cards, it would have been pretty much impossible for NameJet to detect even with greater access to customer data than a simple bidder alias and WHOIS history.

Then there are privacy issues with auction houses sharing customer information, including IP addresses, physical addresses, payment info, etc. which would be needed for a proper audit. Even if they would be allowed to share that with a third party, the auditor would likely need to be audited itself by various government entities to ensure that the data is being adequately protected. And again, even with access to all of that data it would still be fairly easy to shill bid without being detected.

Then you have the issue of "first" and "twotwo" where NameJet lets other auction houses bid on behalf of their own user base, but without NameJet having access to any of the customer details. So again, you could simply sign up at those Chinese sites and shill bid to your heart's content and nobody would be the wiser, including NameJet. It is absolutely ridiculous to me that this is allowed.

But I guess nothing really surprises me any more, because Oliver is back selling names again as far as I can tell: http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/hotdotnets

So yea, this was all pretty much pointless as the net result was just that shill bidders have to work a tiny bit harder to cover their tracks. I guess they feel that with their new security measures they are safe, but there are multiple different vectors that would let Oliver continue to bid on his own names that bypass whatever security they could ever possibly implement. The safest thing is to not let shady sellers on the platform and to stay vigilant. But there's very little incentive for them to give up half their public auction inventory and to work harder when domain investors will just keep bidding anyway.

At the end of the day you have to decide where you feel safe spending your money. If you think the auction house is playing fast and loose, don't bid on public auctions even if you miss out on deals. Or more realistically, just really stick to the price you decided on before the last day of the auction and not care if you get shilled.

 

[Michael M]

Thank you for the thoughtful reply, @Michael . Very appreciated. I understand what you are saying and can understand why you would decline.

But I guess nothing really surprises me any more, because Oliver is back selling names again as far as I can tell: http://www.namejet.com/featuredauctions/hotdotnets

To me, that is insane he is allowed to sell there still. I am a programmer and I personally feel as if his bot explanation does not hold up nor exonerate him - with the evidence at hand. (in my opinion) We could discuss why I think this but others have brought up most the points.

But more to the main point - I think this is probably only one case and many others are likely to exist. (in my opinion)

Sad state of affairs when it has now pretty much been admitted and become the accepted practice that shill bidding is normal and we should just pay what we think something is worth. Simple fact of the matter is all of our margins would be better without shill bidders, regardless of what we are willing to pay. If it comes down to what we are willing to pay then these should not be auctions - but "Make an Offer" (in my opinion)

Everything I write here is opinion and I do not want to implicate that anything is fact against anyone.

 

[anantj]

I tracked this domain in another thread. Perhaps you were right @anantj?

https://www.namepros.com/threads/em...me-100-bids-22k-already.1033058/#post-6299447

Maybe, Maybe not. The privacy complicates matters and without sufficient evidence one way or the other, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Maybe some DomainGang can help lighten the mood. Wooo - sah! I don't think it has been posted in this thread yet. Seems on topic...

More here --- http://domaingang.com/domain-news/jesus-is-getting-ready-to-save-namejet/

 

[anantj]

Veiled dig at you (considering your DP here)?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Veiled dig at you (considering your DP here)?

DP?

 

[anantj]

DP?

Display Picture / Avatar / Profile Pic

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Display Picture / Avatar / Profile Pic

Oh haha. I have no idea.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Something I'm not fully understanding...

Why not bid on LawTeacher.com? For sale by the same seller of the domains in question...

I can't find any NameJet record for this. It appears to have been scraped. Maybe, somebody who was apart of this auction has it?

The reason I ask is, per my comment, LawTeacher was being auctioned off by the same seller as the other domains in question. At the time, Andy's name was on the WHOIS.

After rechecking the WHOIS today, this domain is now owned by James.

Based on the WHOIS record of these domains, it would appear Andy sold it to James. Why is there no more record of this domain anymore? Was the auction cancelled after this thread blew up? Maybe it just didn't hit reserve? Is it normal for NJ auction records to disappear? There is still a record of the MovieZone.com sale on NJ -- and at auction had bids by seek despite being listed by seek This could be nothing. Make your own opinion. Maybe this has already been addressed, and I'm missing something?

I'm also wondering, what is NameJet policy on selling domains that aren't yours? Say you (Steve) are a NameJet seller, and somebody (Roger) who isn't a NameJet seller, has some enom registered domains they want you (Steve) to list on NameJet for them. Would I (Steve) be able to sell Rogers name for him? Or... would I first have to change the WHOIS from his (Roger's) name to my (Steve's) name?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Based on the WHOIS record of these domains, it would appear Andy sold it to James. Why is there no more record of this domain anymore? Was the auction cancelled after this thread blew up? Maybe it just didn't hit reserve? Is it normal for NJ auction records to disappear? There is still a record of the MovieZone.com sale on NJ -- and at auction had bids by seek despite being listed by seek This could be nothing. Make your own opinion. Maybe this has already been addressed, and I'm missing something?

Auction was cancelled.
http://www.namejet.com/Pages/Auctions/StandardDetails.aspx?auctionid=3956209

I'm also wondering, what is NameJet policy on selling domains that aren't yours? Say you (Steve) are a NameJet seller, and somebody (Roger) who isn't a NameJet seller, has some enom registered domains they want you (Steve) to list on NameJet for them. Would I (Steve) be able to sell Rogers name for him? Or... would I first have to change the WHOIS from his (Roger's) name to my (Steve's) name?

It's obvious this happened. But what do their rules state?

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Besides the coincidental WHOIS mail forwarding service address matching Oliver (nobody has reported other domainers using that same address yet), the only evidence pointing to @MediaOptions has been allegations.

One such allegation has been that of bidding on his own 6N.com

The below screenshot may not be the alleged 6N.com (as it has yet to be stated which 6N.com was involved) but there is one NameJet sale that there's not enough public info (as of yet) to confirm or deny. (This does not prove wrong doing - possibly incomplete WHOIS or missing changed WHOIS in the time between last WHOIS available / auction.)

WHOIS Date 16 Feb 2016 -- (Does anybody have a WHOIS date for this domain before the 5/10/2016 auction?)

Show attachment 64948

Show attachment 64947

Show attachment 64949

To reiterate what I previously said on page 50, the only evidence pointing to MediaOptions has been allegations.

Just wanted to state for the record, that there has been NO hard bidding proof presented thus far that shows MediaOptions has ever participated in shill bidding. IN MY OPINION - there MAY be some digital footprints that deserve more questioning due to the complexity of short name business. That said, Don't be afraid to ask questions! ...and refrain from conclusions until all facts are presented.

There is quite a bit of digital foot prints connecting Mr. Rosener to Mr. Hoger. He admitted to that earlier in this thread.

Unless you have proof, please don't assume anyone's involvement. My comments were questions. Nothing I have said should be taken as fact. You should research on your own, and draw your own conclusion. Or ask others. Don't be afraid to ask questions if you see something suspicious. But please, in this thread, state it as a question, and use disclosures such as your opinion, allegedly, possibly, etc.

I believe I have been clear throughout this thread that I am only asking questions, and am not stating anything as fact, rather my personal opinion + a source such as a screenshot to explain how I reached that opinion. If anybody feels my comments, or somebody else's comments, were anything other than that, please report the comment, or contact the user for clarification.

 

[promo]

#tailbetweenlegs
#sosorrysir
#finallysomeoneelsepostsinthisthread

 

[Irieman]

#tailbetweenlegs
#sosorrysir
#finallysomeoneelsepostsinthisthread

Give me a break, because of @Grilled and @Michael we got quite a lot of information that shows the shady bidding that went on at NameJet. Without them @Oliver Hoger may not have been called out for bidding on his own names. I think they deserve our thanks and respect rather than criticism for trying to clean the filth that plagues our industry at the moment.

 

[Arca]

Give me a break, because of @Grilled and @Michael we got quite a lot of information that shows the shady bidding that went on at NameJet. Without them @Oliver Hoger may not have been called out for bidding on his own names. I think they deserve our thanks and respect rather than criticism for trying to clean the filth that plagues our industry at the moment.

@promo sells names for Oliver Hoger. He actively defended Oliver in this thread and reached out to defend him in PMs while this was unfolding, and has continued to defend him after it has come to light that he was shill bidding at NameJet. #protectingthehandthatfeedsyou

@Oliver Hoger - Since you have returned to this thread to "like" posts, how about finally taking the time to address your activity at NameJet? Are you still selling names at NameJet as per Michael's post above?