BrandBucket Experience

[xtremex]

hello

I am new to BrandBucket. Before getting my hands on this

I wish to experience about brandbucket from my fellow members


Thanks

 

[Chris Hydrick]

I can answer that.

If I was Mr Krell I would be devastated if I only sold 18 domains in April.

Thank about it....He has over 5000 domains listed on BB....and only made 18 sales???

That is less than 4%....His profit barely covers his registration renewals.

Surely if he has 5000 listed domains, he probably has another 15000 unlisted?

Can you imagine his renewal costs?

Have you ever taken an economics course before? I say this with respect, but I don't think you're grasping the big picture HERE. Many of us domainers have 1,000+ domains with renewals fee's of our own to worry about. We would like an equal and fair marketplace if we're forced to the exclusivity and listing fee investments of a brandable marketplace like BB. Not all my domains are hand regs. I expect decent and quicker return out of my premium domains, especially when I pay a secondary investment into the company itself.

 

[loredan]

I raise the question: Has any one seller, besides managing directior @michaeljkrell who not receiving FREE listing fee's sold 18 or more domains in one year with BrandBucket?

Proportionate sales is crucial for steady, and healthy marketplace GROWTH. This is especially important to those outsiders who invest in exclusive marketplace listing fee's

ie: the 'pay to play' into and exclusive pyramid type listing fee / appraisal scheme that is hyped by insider sales and the promise of a hand reg dream.

No offence @Grilled but you're off the charts lately especially in regards with the listing fee. I'm not a BB fan myself but I see no problem in paying a tenner to get listed (in fact I think the listing fee should be higher). BrandBucket (as well as BR and all other marketplaces) is a business entity and has all the rights in the world to charge you whatever they charge as long as the fees are clearly displayed and understood before you list your name.

It isn't your problem how they use the fee or what is it for, it isn't your problem how they spend (or not) the money. They never said the listing fee is for logo design, or listing description, it's just a damn fee that everyone should pay in order to get listed. BB spend five figures each month to advertise their business, this money don't grow on trees...if I was the BB managing director I would write on top of the submission page with large letters "The listing fee is paid for the privilege to list your crappy hand reg at silly prices in our marketplace" and that's exactly why you pay this fee...for the privilege to be listed. None of your business what % of this goes into logo design, or into marketing or content writing, etc...

I suspect your "perfect" marketplace would pay you to list your name, would sell 2 hand regs each day for each member at $5k each, would let you all access all the data in the world and hell they'll even throw 2 cinema tickets for anyone...well that's not going to happen...

Also in regards with the 30% commission ...while I agree this is a rip off I still have no problem with it as long as everyone knows this from start and accept it as long as people still submit domains to BB on a daily basis. You know the old saying "stupid isn't the seller who asks a silly price, is the buyer who pays that silly price".

My problem with BB is the lack of any data transparency (well they might have changed that a bit with the new dashboard)...Margot said in a previous post that everyone should re-evaluate and prune his portfolio, keep on building with quality names, blah, blah ... How on earth you supposed to do that if you have no data available? Sure easy for her to say since she has access to everything, but impossible for the average Joe who has no data (or very little) to work with.

The main problem which bothers me is the fact that some get preferential treatment and I'm talking about MK, employees, friends, relatives, ambassadors and all others rubbing shoulders with Margot.
"A smart man knows when to stop" - now I'm not saying that Krell isn't smart but he certainly doesn't know when to stop. I think it would be just fair if Margot would put a cap on the number of domains each "friend" has listed otherways in a couple of months time when they'll reach 50k names, Krell will probably have about 10k of them, Margot 5k and all other "friends" another 2-5k all together. That would make 20K out of 50k names owned by BB insiders which is disgusting imo . I think a max of 2-3k names per person would be more than enough even for the managing director...he can always "prune" his portfolio as Margot suggested. and that would give everyone a small but fair chance to sell their names.

 

[svede]

I use real data which has guided me fruitfully not hypothesis or clues.

Quite frankly, I not only question your data, but don't trust it. I am with everyone else wanting more data, but your scraping seems to miss things. I'm a software engineer and I am not surprised that you would miss data if all you do is scrape the data and compare to whois, etc (what I understand of how you do it from your other posts)... As one example, I had a $5k sale on BB late last year that you missed (and no, I am not sharing the details of it). If you missed that, how many others did you miss? I thought I read others noticing some data missing as well in another thread... Is it really a 5% club or are you missing another 5%? 10%? 40%?

I appreciate data (although I don't always agree with your practices/viewpoints), but please don't take this as an attack on your data. It's just you are using it as proof of your arguments when I know for a fact that it is inaccurate data. Therefore, I cannot follow in line with your arguments/conclusions.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

No offence @Grilled but you're off the charts lately especially in regards with the listing fee.

Thank you for chiming in. I really appreiate hearing your insight. I will take this as a sign to bow down for a moment, and let what I've proposed marinate in the community. Thank you for listening to what I had to say, questioning it, and evaluting to form an opinion of your own based on your experience. This is the exact type of domaining mindset I'm working to promote.

I mean none of that with no disrespect if any of it came off as such @loredan . Thank you again.

I suspect your "perfect" marketplace would pay you to list your name, would sell 2 hand regs each day for each member at $5k each, would let you all access all the data in the world and hell they'll even throw 2 cinema tickets for anyone...well that's not going to happen...

This is not my perfect marketplace. I will be happy to share with you, and everyone else my vision of a perfect, or near perfect marketplace. Thank you.

 

[Justin Matmor]

Have you ever taken an economics course before? I say this with respect, but I don't think you're grasping the big picture HERE. Many of us domainers have 1,000+ domains with renewals fee's of our own to worry about. We would like an equal and fair marketplace if we're forced to the exclusivity and listing fee investments of a brandable marketplace like BB. Not all my domains are hand regs. I expect decent and quicker return out of my premium domains.

There are many examples of hand regged domains being sold for $3000+ on BB. If you truely have genuine premium domains why aren't you using a specialist broker to sell these? By listing these on BB may not be a smart move imo.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

There are many examples of hand regged domains being sold for $3000+ on BB. If you truely have genuine premium domains why aren't you using a specialist broker to sell these? By listing these on BB may not be a smart move imo.

All three of my BrandBucket sales were from hand regged domains. I was not fortunate enough to have them valued at $3,000+ by BrandBucket.

 

[JimJammy]

Not on brandbucket.

That's not exactly true now is it?

 

[BrandClub.com]

I can answer that.

If I was Mr Krell I would be devastated if I only sold 18 domains in April.

Think about it....He has over 5000 domains listed on BB....and only made 18 sales???

That is less than 4%....His profit barely covers his registration renewals.

Surely if he has 5000 listed domains, he probably has another 15000 unlisted?

Can you imagine his renewal costs?

Maybe Mr. MK owns only those BB listed domains ... Who knows ?

Maybe he gets 100% approval for all his submissions ... ?
Maybe he pays no listing fees ... ?
Maybe he pays only 5% or 10% commission for his sales ... ?
Who really knows ?

If he sold 18 domains only in April at let´s say $2,500 per domain he already paid the renewal fees for all those 5,000 domains he owns ... in one year: 1 month sales are for renewals and 11 months are pure profit ...

 

[Domainzy]

Recently traveled to DNSeattle for @DomainSherpa 's event! The meetup was amazing... Michael Cyger really knows how to deliver a professional and fun meet up. Open bar, catered food, great networking, intriguing conversations, panel discussions, give-a-ways, and a fun after party too

I must say HOW REFRESHING it is to meet and talk with many domain investors who hold Brand Bucket in high regard. It was nice to hear how much our sellers appreciate our constant evolution and improvements. It was also nice to hear about names that have sold! And what new names sellers were able to buy with proceeds from recent sales on BB. In general it was fun to talk brandable strategies with fellow like minded people!

On the flip side... I was extremely surprise how many people at DNSeattle asked me "So what is Brand Bucket?" I was under the assumption that everyone knew what BB is! But I must have talked to 25-30 people who had never heard of or tried BB! Happy to report that some people have emailed me since DNSeattle and are excited about trying BB

Exciting times! Our brandable community is growing with enthusiasm and positivity!

Cheers!
Jeffrey

 

[JimJammy]

Maybe Mr. MK owns only those BB listed domains ... Who knows ???

Maybe he gets 100% approval for all his submissions ... ???
Maybe he pays no listing fees ... ???
Maybe he pays only 5% or 10% commission for his sales ... ???

If he sold 18 domains only in April at let´s say $2,500 per domain he already paid the renewal fees for all those 5,000 domains he owns ... in one year: 1 month sales are for renewals and 11 months are pure profit ...

I'm sure Michael has mentioned in this thread that he pays the full commission.

Either way, whether he does or doesn't, the owners and staff SHOULD have benefits, for all we know this is part of their employment contract. I have some very nice benefits at my job too, heck even my student son gets 10% off at the supermarket he works at for his Saturday job!

It's our choice whether we list our domains under their terms or not.

 

[BrandClub.com]

I'm sure Michael has mentioned in this thread that he pays the full commission.

Either way, whether he does or doesn't, the owners and staff SHOULD have benefits, for all we know this is part of their employment contract. I have some very nice benefits at my job too, heck even my student son gets 10% off at the supermarket he works at for his Saturday job!

It's our choice whether we list our domains under their terms or not.

You´re absolutely right saying that:
"It's our choice whether we list our domains under their terms or not."
but it looks like the TERMS are not the same for all members ...

 

[svede]

I'm sure Michael has mentioned in this thread that he pays the full commission.

Either way, whether he does or doesn't, the owners and staff SHOULD have benefits, for all we know this is part of their employment contract. I have some very nice benefits at my job too, heck even my student son gets 10% off at the supermarket he works at for his Saturday job!

It's our choice whether we list our domains under their terms or not.

That's what a lot of people forget. They aren't forcing us to use them. As long as they don't break contracts with us, they are allowed to change policies on fees, etc.

That being said, we are allowed to demand things from them since they benefit from us and we have a right to speak our minds. But people forget that this is THEIR business and they don't owe us anything. We are essentially their customer (a type of at least). If they aren't giving us enough to use them, we move on. Simple business...

 

[svede]

You´re absolutely right saying that:
"It's our choice whether we list our domains under their terms or not."
but it looks like the TERMS are not the same for all members ...

Even if that were so, it is their business, they are not violating any laws by doing so. If they are doing that or we think that they are and we don't like it, we need to just move on to another marketplace or make our own IMHO. That will get a response from them far more than anything else.

EDIT: Also, many businesses have tiers for members... I have no issue with that... my only issue, IF they are doing that, is the transparency... though, again, that isn't illegal or anything, I just don't like doing business if I don't understand my benefits clearly (BTW, I am in no ways saying this is happening and have seen no proof of it).

 

[frank-germany]

Michael sells more names for a reason.
He is not luckier...
He does not abuse any system...
He does not voodoo dance naked every full moon (that he admits ) chanting prayers to the domain Gods...

Instead of ranting about conspiracy theories wouldn't it be better to look at WHY a domain has sold?

Let's take the last 3 names that sold according to DNBolt.

C/r.i.p/t/i.q
Now google it: https://www.google.com/search?q=cryptiq&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

E/n/r.o.l/o
Now google it: https://www.google.com/search?q=enrolo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

C/o/u.r.s/e/C/u.b.e
Now google it: https://www.google.com/search?q=coursecube&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

I don't know who owned these names on BB but they all bought SMART domains! They've effectively doubled their chances of selling their brandable.

Seriously? You are wasting time and energy in the wrong places. Look at WHY a name has sold, not who sold it, and use what you learn from that to emulate the same when buying your domains for listing in marketplaces, then you too will have a higher than average sales rate

Good luck.

I googled it .. still no clue what you are talking about

 

[JimJammy]

I googled it .. still no clue what you are talking about

The first and last name both have 'targets'. By that I mean, there are existing brands out there either on a different extension or using a longer .com.

The second name is both an English brandable and it has a meaning in another language - Portuguese.

AND they are great names for any new start up!

Basically, the owners of these names gave themselves an extra chance at selling their name at a great price!

 

[svede]

I always say a name fails the radio test if you have to explaib it on the radio like the examples you showed. Imagine if Fiverr had Fiver and wanted to do radio ads? That explanation would not be needed.

Exactly. The point of the radio test is that you don't need to explain it - they can hear it on the radio and know how to spell it correctly from the pronunciation. That doesn't mean one that fails is bad (though some people would disagree), but there is something to say for one that does pass it. Certainly a lot of great brands that do fail, however - Fiverr included.

 

[hookbox]

I like the last one, the problem with a 'c' though is it could be pronounced 's'. None of these really pass the telephone test. As Michael said, just because it doesn't fit BB it doesn't mean it's not a good name! You have a back up plan for your third one I've just had a similar type of name rejected and I'm about to do the same as you :D

Any name starting with CO will never be pronounced like an S. If it started with CE then your argument is valid. The reason Commoca was rejected is because Michael Mann (Domain Market) is selling the shorter 6 letter version Comoca for only $2,000.

 

[JimJammy]

Commoca. Perhaps it's just the European in me that thinks this could be pronounced either way. It's a nice word non-the-less.

The reason Commoca was rejected is because Michael Mann (Domain Market) is selling the shorter 6 letter version Comoca for only $2,000.

Fact? BB specifically looked at Michael Manns site and decided they wouldn't list this name because he had a similar version? Your proof?

 

[hookbox]

Commoca


Fact? BB specifically looked at Michael Manns site and decided they wouldn't list this name because he had a similar version? Your proof?

Use logic. Why would they list the longer more confusing Commoca when the shorter not confusing Comoca is available for only $2,000? So they would list Commoca for $1,500 or less hoping that some fool would buy the shorter version to only save 500 bucks. Idiotic.

 

[Simdes]

Maybe he gets 100% approval for all his submissions ... ?
Maybe he pays no listing fees ... ?
Maybe he pays only 5% or 10% commission for his sales ... ?
Who really knows ?

Good questions. @michaeljkrell, can you answer, please?

Either way, whether he does or doesn't, the owners and staff SHOULD have benefits, for all we know this is part of their employment contract.

Yes I agree. But in that case he should not say "we do not have any privileges".

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

I did not give BB enough try but one day I submited a lot of domains more than 30 , most included keywords that were two words etc and only got 7 accepted. I published one and so far it didnt sell lol

But this week I was so motivated that I decited to publish another three and see how it goes.

 

[JimJammy]

It's an old post but he openly admits ambassadors (he was an ambassador at the time) get benefits.

I never said that I don't receive benefits from being an ambassador. I did say that I don't get any preferential treatment when submitting & publishing domains. My commission is also the same as everyone else.

From the press release...

BrandBucket Ambassadors will be afforded special perks, resources and budgets to help them promote their portfolios and help represent BrandBucket's ever-growing collection of available business names for entrepreneurs, startups and new businesses.

 

[svede]

I kinda disagree with you here. Not in every business it's ethical to give benefits to the staff for their product. Example: when someone rolls a lottery, then usually for all employees of any involved parties, including organizers, ad and PR agencies etc. etc., and even for their family members it's strictly forbidden to get even close to buying the lottery tickets.

The same is here. This is not a supermarket where the staff doesn't compete with the clients. When buying from the shop stock, the staff is on the same position as a client from the street. But here, with selling brandable domains, i clearly see a conflict of interests. Any their staff member here competes with their clients. i.e. with us, and by getting any kind of benefits they break a competition in a very f*cked way.

I would agree generally with you, but I think we need to go back to the origins of BB as it isn't like a lot of companies in design. BB was designed for themselves. Others wanted in so they opened the doors. If I were in their position I wouldn't hurt myself to let others in. Yes, they benefit from others, but their primary focus was (and I believe still is) their domains.

I don't see the issue with them doing this - I would just like full transparency and disclosure if they are so that I understand what my benefits actually are by using their site.

Hope that helps!

 

[JimJammy]

I kinda disagree with you here. Not in every business it's ethical to give benefits to the staff for their product. Example: when someone rolls a lottery, then usually for all employees of any involved parties, including organizers, ad and PR agencies etc. etc., and even for their family members it's strictly forbidden to get even close to buying the lottery tickets.

The same is here. This is not a supermarket where the staff doesn't compete with the clients. When buying from the shop stock, the staff is on the same position as a client from the street. But here, with selling brandable domains, i clearly see a conflict of interests. Any their staff member here competes with their clients. i.e. with us, and by getting any kind of benefits they break a competition in a very f*cked way.

This 'staff member' is the Managing Director.

You can list your domains on his marketplace and enjoy the benefits... or not.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

You can list your domains on his marketplace and enjoy the benefits... or not.

I currently choose not to list my domains with BrandBucket until they answer some important questions about listing fee's and logo awards that have recently been raised.

See the following posts for my concerns...

This is what I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

If the logo is just an indication of what it could look like, then why does BB put the whole logo cost on you? Yes, other companies use the same formula, but does that make it right? When you break it down here's what's happening:

Buy from BB's exclusive marketplace. BB will take 30%+ of the total sale for their advertising, operating costs, and escrow services. You may have found the domain from their search, which is powered by the upfront fee's from which their sellers are required to pay to have their domain listed categorically with searchable tags . If you found the domain on your own through the URL itself, then you'll find a description paid for by their sellers, and a logo that their sellers will be required to purchase if you decide to buy the domain. You will have no way of knowing if their seller seller paid $100 or $500 for the logo to be designed. You don't even have to use the logo if you don't want to, the seller is obligated to buy your logo regardless if you want it or not.

If the domain sells, the seller will be forced to buy the concept logo BrandBucket provided as a visual aid intended to help sell the domain. Why is the seller required to buy the concept logo if BrandBucket was the one who promised concept logo rights to the buyer with their purchase? What if they don't want the logo? Why do we still have to pay for it after the purchase price? I don't see any reason why the logo fee should come from the seller when it's BrandBucket making and approving the logo. If I'm going to be forced to buy my buyer a $100-$500 logo after the domain sells, why do I have to pay for BB's concept logo that took 10 minutes to make? If this is the case, at the very least, I should be satisfied with the concept logo being used to sell my domain over other competing domains with logo's. BB accepts similar domains, and it's not fair for a buyer to examplee.com over eexample.com simply because one has a better concept logo.

If we looked at this like an NBA trade: Gains / Losses

Buyer: 100% total sale | Domain | Proof of concept logo
Seller: 70% total sale | Domain | $10 (to BB) | $100-$500 (proof of concept logo)
BrandBucket: 30% of total sale | $10 (from seller)

How do we account for value:: Seller / Marketplace

• Domain investment ie renewals / purchase price vs Operating cost ie staff, advertising, etc
• Buyers that find your domain via YOUR type in traffic / marketing vs Buyers that find your domain through BrandBucket's search and their marketing

I get what you are saying and you laid it out well, I think the one point is that you are not buying the logo for your buyer, you are compensating the logo designer
who may have designed it on spec 3 years ago.

Now there is a case to be made. "Hey BrandBucket you get 30% you can tip the designer"

Look I just think people either have to say I trust Margot and Michael and I believe they are earning their keep, or this is nonsense $10 + 30% + Logo fee + Exclusivity.

They are transparent about all their fees and demands, whether a domain owner should enter into a contract with them is an individual decision.

Thank you for clarifying this. I would appreciate it if somebody could finally set the record straight on how BrandBucket designers are compensated. I have had this request ignored several times.

I have heard variations of the following from unofficial sources:

Designers are given the option to be paid:
(a) small payment upfront + no bonus
(b) no upfront payment + bonus
(c) small fee + bonus

I think it's important for us to know. Here's why:

if (a) then what is the small upfront payment? This is essentially a discounted listing fee with no logo fee if we were a designer/seller. Does BB use a % of my upfront fee to pay the designer an upfront fee and then pocket the logo bonus I paid for?

If (b) then the benefit is to the skill of the designer. It wouldn't help me as a volume seller. I don't mind rewarding the designer for their time. My problem is with the logos that don't take much time. This rewards designers who spend 1 hour on a design just as much as it rewards designers who spend 5 minutes.

If (c) then the designer is equally benefited to those seller/desingers. If I submitted my own logo's in (a) I would make a small fee, by not having to pay a small upfront fee and sold bonus to BB designers. This fee is used to pay designers (c). The designer is now incentivized to making more logos. The more logo's they design, the more upfront money they receive, and the better their chances are at receiving a reward fee. If designers understand it's the domain that sells, not the concept logo, what's incentivizing them do design better logo's over more logos?


PS - I miss the voting system. IMO BB took a turn for the worse when they went away with it. When listing fee's were free for voters, it was hard to have an issue with the free upfront concept logo's. This is a matter of wanting to get what we paid for and/or cutting our margins to be beneficial to both parties. If I have 1,000 domains approved for BrandBucket, I have to pay $9,000 up front in listing fee's + $9,000/year + forward my domains + sell exclusively on BB + 30% + additional fee's for a concept logo they promised to their buyer?

If they pay their designers solely on spec with no upfront money, then MK would be correct in saying their designers don't receive part of the upfront listing fee. (b)

If they pay their designers any money upfront, then I don't how this isn't part of the listing fee. (a)(c)

(a) small payment upfront + no bonus
(b) no payment upfront + bonus
(c) small payment upfront + bonus