The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[twomoon]

What? So you're saying these other cultures where the "woman need to be the woman" which is usually second class citizens, is better, more powerful, something like that? And if you're against gays and such, that makes you a strong society etc.? If so, you have it ass backwards. A strong society is one that is open and not fearful of bs. I don't remember if it was you or somebody else in some other thread talking about how society would crumble if such things were allowed to happen. And then me asking Gilsan, did Portugal crumble because they allow gay marriage now? Of course not. You're just repeating some fearful nonsense you were taught. You would get a pass if you were a child and your parents taught you this, because parents are a child's foundation. But there comes a time in life where you should have grown up, become an adult, think for yourself and forgive your parents, knowing they were just passing down the same nonsense they were taught. Eventually you have to break the cycle.

A society fearful of 2 women getting married is not strong, it's weak as hell. Beware the lesbians*, boo.

That's for the 2 women that fought for those rights in Portugal, and now they can legally wed.

First of all I wasn't taught by my parents or someone else the things that I'm beleive in now. I was born in a former USSR, so everything was totally different. Till today my society thanks God is not so open as yours.
It's just the common sense, my eyes and self-preservation are helping me.
Have you ever heard about statistics? Well I advice you to read some stats about population/religious groups in the Europe. How it was changed during say last 20 years.

As for the gays. Well maybe you already have info about some advanced technologies, with help of which, even f##ing in the ass causes pregnancy.
I didn't heard about something like that for now.
Plus it's unnatural.

 

[Ms Domainer]

*

Interesting decision.

That opens all kinds of doors for the display of religious and other famous figures, including Allah, Satan, Hitler, etc.

It may be a bumpy ride for this community.

:imho:

*

This is.. interesting, to say the least:

Schools use KKK ruling to keep Jesus painting



Read it all here http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ls-use-kkk-ruling-to-keep-jesus-painting.html

 

[GILSAN]

Some (like GILSAN) argue with me and that's okay. The thing here that irks me the most is that when the schools here see students doing anything that disrupts the educational system, they end it via suspension or whathaveyou. This painting issue is the biggest disruption of education we've ever had (my hometown, Wellston, had a teachers' strike in the late 90s). This is making students, teachers etc take their focus away from the educational process. Had a student came to school with a religious shirt on, he'd face suspension. But this is "okay" because it's related to their religion of choice and thus, a blind eye is turned to the issue, as though there is no "disruption" at all. Filthy hypocrites.

I'm glad we agree to disagree.

So apparently for 65 years there was no disruption at that school while the painting was there, but now after one student and his parents complained, the disruption started, is that correct?

Why are the people that are complaining about the picture not identifying themselves?

 

[JB Lions]

As for the gays. Well maybe you already have info about some advanced technologies, with help of which, even f##ing in the ass causes pregnancy.
I didn't heard about something like that for now.
Plus it's unnatural.

So sex is the first thing you think about with this. First, what people do is none of your business. And using your reasoning, I guess you're against oral sex as well, since I've never heard of anybody getting pregnant that way either.

 

[Keith]

Why are the people that are complaining about the picture not identifying themselves?

Does that matter?

The real question is, why has the picture been displayed when we have separation of church and state? I want to display a picture of 70 virgins because that's part of my religious belief. What say you?

 

[GILSAN]

Liberal societies are really something else. Gays want to get married legally but they can't reproduce, so they must adopt.

Problem is there are not enough children for adoptions requested, thanks to 1.2 million, easy to get abortions every year in the US. Isn't that ironic?

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------

Does that matter? I want to display a picture of 70 virgins because that's part of my religious belief. What say you?

If the majority of the people vote for displaying 70 virgins then I have to accept it. It's called democracy. Majority wins. Just like Obama won with 53% of the vote, the other 47% may not like it but they accept it. Plain and simple

 

[Keith]

Liberal societies are really something else. Gays want to get married legally but they can't reproduce, so they must adopt.

Problem is there are not enough children for adoptions requested, thanks to 1.2 million, easy to get abortions every year in the US. Isn't that ironic?

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------



If the majority of the people vote for displaying 70 virgins then I have to accept it. It's called democracy. Majority wins. Just like Obama won with 53% of the vote, the other 47% may not like it but they accept it. Plain and simple

A. We don't take a vote as it pertains to religion. You completely missed my point.

B. There are far more children who need a good home vs those who are willing to adopt... http://www.americasunwantedchildren.org/default.html

 

[JB Lions]

Liberal societies are really something else. Gays want to get married legally but they can't reproduce, so they must adopt.

Problem is there are not enough children for adoptions requested, thanks to 1.2 million, easy to get abortions every year in the US. Isn't that ironic?

---------- Post added at 03:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:20 PM ----------



If the majority of the people vote for displaying 70 virgins then I have to accept it. It's called democracy. Majority wins. Just like Obama won with 53% of the vote, the other 47% may not like it but they accept it. Plain and simple

A. that still wouldn't be any of your business.
B. "Problem is there are not enough children for adoptions requested" that's false. Utilize Google every now and then, get some facts. There are kids right now waiting to be adopted. Many states don't allow gay couples to adopt.

As far as the other stuff, schools are supposed to be "religiously neutral"

"The Supreme Court ordered that all religious activities be removed from the public schools (Engel v. Vatale, l962) and in subsequent years strengthened its decision through further restrictions (Abington v. Schempp, l963; Stone v. Gramm, l980; Graham v. Central, l985; Jager v. Douglas, l989"

Read page 2, first couple of paragraphs, and tell me how that doesn't make any sense.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...i6pQcm&sig=AHIEtbSQvMTcQxQBDGAMOQqj58-by2dfBw

 

[DU]

Does that matter?

The real question is, why has the picture been displayed when we have separation of church and state? I want to display a picture of 70 virgins because that's part of my religious belief. What say you?

The KKK defense is that the area is a public forum near a state building.

If that area continues to be designated an area of PUBLIC FORUM then you would be entitled to put it there as an exercise in your right of free speech - unless the action was done solely to cause a disruption, of course. However, the likelihood of this argument winning is zero based on precedent. Its just eating up time and money.

 

[sofiapartner]

You are overreacting in you tolerance. In fact - the white christians are so tolerant, that soon they will kiss asses, spit on their traditions and maybe will be afraid to tell that they are christians in their home country, which is .... still,but i guess not for long predominantly christian.

You said it is a 60 years of tradition with this picture. And you want to ruin the tradition because... why?

Because not everyone is a christian?

What a stupid logic!

 

[DU]

Why are the people that are complaining about the picture not identifying themselves?

The complainent is the ACLU of Ohio and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. That's all you need to know.

The reason they are not identifying the original person filing the complaint may simply be to prevent them from being hassled, abused, or otherwise bothered by media, zealots, or other fervent christ supporters (who may well be furnished with hand held devices that propel small aero dynamic pieces of metal at startling speeds according to their rights).

 

[JB Lions]

You are overreacting in you tolerance. In fact - the white christians are so tolerant, that soon they will kiss asses, spit on their traditions and maybe will be afraid to tell that they are christians in their home country, which is .... still,but i guess not for long predominantly christian.

You said it is a 60 years of tradition with this picture. And you want to ruin the tradition because... why?

Because not everyone is a christian?

What a stupid logic!

Read my last post, click the link, read.

You can be Christian or any other religion. Just not in what's supposed to be religiously neutral public schools. People should fight against it when they see it.

If you were a Christian, would you want to go to a school that has Muslim prayer before lunch, Muhammed pictures on the wall, the Koran on the lunch tables etc? You think all those Christian parents would be ok with that? Hell no. Again, that's why it should be neutral. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

And you're somebody else not from this country. Seems like non-US or hardcore Christians are the only ones that think it's ok for schools to favor it over others. Problem is the others, and they should be respected as well.

 

[sofiapartner]

And how you make the connections between these signs on beaches and Christianity? Why you are confusing racism with christianity? "Negroes" were also christians, you know?

The most nationalistic and xenophobic people on Earth are actually the Jews. That is a fact.

*

I totally agree with J.B. Lions.

Public school is no place for proselytizing for ANY religion.

My husband is Jewish (I am not), and he tells me horror stories of growing up in the 1940's and 1950's and being banned from certain beaches with friendly signs like "No Jews or Negroes Allowed."

So I can't imagine that the 40's and 50's were very embracing times for Jews and African-Americans (among other groups, I'm sure). We White, Christian folk have no idea what it's like being excluded in society.

If you want your children to have a religious education, then, by all means, send them to religious schools.

*

 

[GILSAN]

A. We don't take a vote as it pertains to religion. You completely missed my point.

B. There are far more children who need a good home vs those who are willing to adopt... http://www.americasunwantedchildren.org/default.html

A. You asked me a quetion , I gave you my answer. You don't like my answer? I don't care

B. Then why is there a need to get about 10% of the adopted children anually from outside the US?

If these figures are correct then look at the "Age Distribution of Adopted Children" chart on the link below where an amazing 56% of the children up for adoption are between 10-17 years old. Not everyone wants children that old.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/adoption-statistics/

 

[sofiapartner]

Hehe - dont tell me that you are comparing Christianity and Islam. If someone propose to remove some Muslim picture in some school in Muslim country, he will be jailed at least.

In the muslim countries (the majority) - the religion is most important and is equal to the state. Maybe you can focus and write about that.

And I wouldn't go to Muslim country, because this is not my place and I wouldn't be comfortable in such environment. But when the guests in the christian countries try to make the rules - there is something wrong.

And I repeat - i guess this picture is more a tradition than some symbol of the faith. It is clear that the school should be no religion territory. And our christian countries are based on this separation of church and state.

But people who hate christianity are pushing and pushing to see what are u ready to sacrifice in the name of your tolerance.

Read my last post, click the link, read.

You can be Christian or any other religion. Just not in what's supposed to be religiously neutral public schools. People should fight against it when they see it.

If you were a Christian, would you want to go to a school that has Muslim prayer before lunch, Muhammed pictures on the wall, the Koran on the lunch tables etc? You think all those Christian parents would be ok with that? Hell no. Again, that's why it should be neutral. Why is that so hard for people to grasp?

 

[GILSAN]

“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
― William F. Buckley Jr.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------

(who may well be furnished with hand held devices that propel small aero dynamic pieces of metal at startling speeds according to their rights).

Have to admit that you have a way with words :gl:

 

[JB Lions]

"And I wouldn't go to Muslim country, because this is not my place and I wouldn't be comfortable in such environment."

And I'm sure Muslims might not be too comfortable in a school that pushes Christianity.

"It is clear that the school should be no religion territory."

Yep. To me this is a very simple issue. Public schools should be religiously neutral. I think that, the Supreme Court thinks that, most educators think that. If somebody disagrees with that, then you're ok with a public school favoring one religion over another, in total disregard for the students of other religions. When you're neutral, you don't have these issues.

 

[GILSAN]

And I'm sure Muslims might not be too comfortable in a school that pushes Christianity.

Not True. Here are two examples of more and more Muslim students attending American Catholic Universities, where they are well treated.

One Muslim student said: “Here, people are more religious, even if they’re not Muslim, and I am comfortable with that,”

Another said: “I like the fact that there’s faith, even if it’s not my faith, and I feel my faith is respected,”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/ed...bers.html?_r=0

Another article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121904199.html

 

[JB Lions]

Not True. Here are two examples of more and more Muslim students attending American Catholic Universities, where they are well treated.

One Muslim student said: “Here, people are more religious, even if they’re not Muslim, and I am comfortable with that,”

Another said: “I like the fact that there’s faith, even if it’s not my faith, and I feel my faith is respected,”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/ed...bers.html?_r=0

Another article:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121904199.html

You can always find some random examples of anything. I could easily find examples opposite of that. Being neutral there is no chance of these issues. Plus the links I posted earlier that you didn't read.

 

[enlytend]

Problem is there are not enough children for adoptions requested, thanks to 1.2 million, easy to get abortions every year in the US. Isn't that ironic?

Sure it isn't better BIRTH CONTROL causing the "shortage"? Are you saying people should bring lives into the world just to increase the adoption pool????

that they are christians in their home country, which is .... still,but i guess not for long predominantly christian.

But even if the US were predominately jewish, sikh, hindu, buddhist, muslim, shito, wiccan or whatever the separation of church and state prevents them from pushing their religious views on everyone by making them part of government. So what does it matter if the majority is "us" or "them?"

 

[sofiapartner]

But even if the US were predominately jewish, sikh, hindu, buddhist, muslim, shito, wiccan or whatever the separation of church and state prevents them from pushing their religious views on everyone by making them part of government. So what does it matter if the majority is "us" or "them?"

You are missing the point. Why there is separation of church and state? Because your country is Christian. Your country is what it is, because it is Christian and it has Christian traditions.

My point is that the picture is not "pushing religious views on everyone". It is just a tradition.

What if someone in Rio De Jeneiro is offended by "Christ the Redeemer"? Brazil is also a country with many different religions and cultures. They are also tolerant. There is also separation of church and state.

Do they have to destroy the statue, which is I guess far more pushing than some picture in Ohio, to prove that they are not pushing religious beliefs on anyone? How many children are viewing the image in the Ohio school and how many children are seeing the statue?

And another thing - should students in USA be banned from celebrating Christmas at school and giving each other presents? Is this pushing? And why your President is taking an oath with the Bible? Why people in courts are swearing with the Bible? Would you give up from these traditions?

 

[Keith]

Do they have to destroy the statue, which is I guess far more pushing than some picture in Ohio, to prove that they are not pushing religious beliefs on anyone?

The difference...the government requires children to go through the school system on their way to adulthood. Children are not required to make use of the public space near the statue.

 

[sofiapartner]

The difference...the government requires children to go through the school system on their way to adulthood. Children are not required to make use of the public space near the statue

Oh... well. Have you ever been in Rio? This statue can be seen from I guess every school in the city. But ok ! You didnt reply about Christmas in schools. Should Christmas be banned at schools? And also St. Valentine day?

Your Christian heritage, practices and traditions are also part of your identity. Just understand that.

 

[Keith]

Oh... well. Have you ever been in Rio? This statue can be seen from I guess every school in the city. But ok ! You didnt reply about Christmas in schools. Should Christmas be banned at schools? And also St. Valentine day?

Your Christian heritage, practices and traditions are also part of your identity. Just understand that.

Yes the statue can be seen for miles but again, school attendance is required by the government. Two completely different situations. I see Jesus and crosses when I drive by churches too but it is not REQUIRED for me to attend service.

Ask most kids why we celebrate Christmas here in the US. The majority have no clue. My point is that the celebration in schools is about getting and giving gifts. You won't find public school teachers giving a lesson on the origin of the holiday.

 

[sofiapartner]

Ask most kids why we celebrate Christmas here in the US. The majority have no clue

And if you are happy with that...then i have nothing more to say to you. The conclusion is painfull. Your children surely are not Christians (which I guess is a great news for you), but worst - they are also dumb.

Surely the children in Ohio will think soon that this guy from the picture is the founder of the school or something...

If that is what you want - you will get it.