.mobi The Reality - Yesterday's Mobi Auction

"What is important is that the second highest bidder bid a boatload of money for these names."

That's a fact!!!

jeremyp said:

...
What is important is that the second highest bidder bid a boatload of money for these names.

What is important is that the winning bidder will likely sell to end-users.
...

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Many good points there Jeremy, thank you!

The one I quoted above is the one I notice tends to get missed more than others.

And also - if I may add - the second highest bidders said in his own thread he only stopped bidding at $611k because he noticed the auction was opened to bidders who weren't there before the crash (or words to that effect, as far as I understand them correctly).

How far above $611k would he have gone before his pre-determined budget ran out otherwise? Only $5k? We'll probably never know but it seems a valid question to consider.
:imho:

The fact is that Sedo has screwed up big time!

They seem to have acted in a way that puts them between a rock and a hard place (a very hard place).

Legally it would seem they deliberately chose to restart auctions that had legally finished, thereby denying the rightful 'winners' of the auction their goods at the hammer price, what is more they did not even make sure they contacted all the winners before re-auctioning the goods. Oh, this is going to cost Sedo plenty.

If they settle all claims by the original winners (and that could be in $10,000,000's for predicted lost revenue over the next 10 years) they will still have legal costs and other expences to pay not only for the purchasers but also their own.

If they decide to transfer names to the original winners then they have .Mobi to compensate and the second auction winners!

From somewhere Sedo is going to have to find sacks full of money to get out of this one. The question is who will suffer? Unforunately it will undoubtedly be the small domainer who has the misfortune to park their domains at Sedo. My prediction is watch those earnings drop. This could either be by denying payment on certain 'unqualified clicks' or by a reduction in earnings per click, or more than likely a combination of both.

The long and short of it is simple, Sedo screwed up and Sedo is going to get hammered in claims. Another question of course is will Sedo survive? Here in the UK one of our major banks just all but collapsed (Northern Rock), so perhaps we realise that even a big boy like Sedo could so easily go to the wall.

Mobi Cheap said:

...
And also - if I may add - the second highest bidders said in his own thread he only stopped bidding at $611k because he noticed the auction was opened to bidders who weren't there before the crash (or words to that effect, as far as I understand them correctly).

How far above $611k would he have gone before his pre-determined budget ran out otherwise? Only $5k? We'll probably never know but it seems a valid question to consider.
:imho:

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I didn't quote the referenced statements directly before, now I've located them so that no one has to rely on my interpretation thereof. Here goes:

musicdotmobi said:

...
...I stop bidding at $611k because in my mind I should not be bidding against NEW bidders (yes I did realise it at the end) who had no place in the auction since they did not attend the original one.
...
I would have bid higher but I am not going to fill SEDO and MTLD's pockets with my hard earned money because they screwed up royally.
...

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Here is the NP thread and the original post from which the above quote is taken:
http://www.namepros.com/dot-mobi/403779-i-bid-611-000-music-mobi.html

The reality of yesterdays auction is this is a SEDO f* up and as much as I understand those who originally won being annoyed/wanting to sue etc.. , the auction malfunctioned at the end thus depriving the seller (and other bidders for that matter) of a fair process. Unfortunatley SEDO is casting a very negative shadow on mobi which is not helped by the perceived notion the winning bidder does not have a good grasp of the domain market. I think the first point mtld can easily address by issuing a statement regarding the sale. As for the second point, some domainers seem to have a glorifed sense of their own importance. In the first place domainers do not drive the market, companies like google that make ad revenue possible in the first place drive the market. Second, the fact that three or four "domainers" did not participate in the sale is meaningless. This is a new market and yesterday's players are not necessarily those who will be playing tomorrow. If the winning bidder can truly afford the names more power to him.

Guys, if you look at the auction, bidders no. 12 and 13 drove up the prices for Music.mobi

Look at the screenshot here: http://mobi.music.us/

Notice that there are only 11 bidders.

Now when the auction restarts, bidders 12 and 13 suddenly join in and drive the prices to 611k, which Sedo KNEW was the original winner's proxy.

Doesn't it sound too convenient that Sedo should find two bidders within a few hours with so much money to push a name to 611k - the EXACT proxy of the original winner?

Won't this make you ask any questions? Doesn't it sound fishy?

sashas said:

Guys, if you look at the auction, bidders no. 12 and 13 drove up the prices for Music.mobi

Look at the screenshot here: http://mobi.music.us/

Notice that there are only 11 bidders.

Now when the auction restarts, bidders 12 and 13 suddenly join in and drive the prices to 611k, which Sedo KNEW was the original winner's proxy.

Doesn't it sound too convenient that Sedo should find two bidders within a few hours with so much money to push a name to 611k - the EXACT proxy of the original winner?

Won't this make you ask any questions? Doesn't it sound fishy?

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This sounds pretty scary on the face of it (haven't looked at the link yet).

But why would 'they' leave it so late?

sashas said:

Guys, if you look at the auction, bidders no. 12 and 13 drove up the prices for Music.mobi

Look at the screenshot here: http://mobi.music.us/

Notice that there are only 11 bidders.

Now when the auction restarts, bidders 12 and 13 suddenly join in and drive the prices to 611k, which Sedo KNEW was the original winner's proxy.

Doesn't it sound too convenient that Sedo should find two bidders within a few hours with so much money to push a name to 611k - the EXACT proxy of the original winner?

Won't this make you ask any questions? Doesn't it sound fishy?

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Not really, look at the end of those auctions as posted on dotmobiz. about a quarter (at least) are won by bidders who began in the last day/minutes of the sale.
On a seperate note, we know who the wnner was, as has been pointed out before he is not someone well known in the community but he is a legit buyer apparently.
I guess there is nothing anyone can do to stop the conspiracy theorists out there but do you truly think SEDO would risk the whole firm, and truly that is what they would be doing, by rigging the auction?

cac14850, in answer to your question "but do you truly think SEDO would risk the whole firm, and truly that is what they would be doing, by rigging the auction?" The answer is 'yes' because they thought they would get away with it!

It is this kind of situation where those who think they are imune over step the mark and it happens all the time, read and watch the news, everyday it happens from celebrities to politicians to sports stars to business men. Well this time Sedo has come unstuck by what appears to be their own short sightedness. This is exactly what we have the courts for, to hear and examine the evidence in a civil dispute and make a ruling on the evidence. Unfortunately for Sedo it looks like it will be in the US where disclosure of evidence to the other side is taken very seriously.

Please note I am not knocking .mobi here or in any of my other posts on this subject, what I am saying is that the evidence in the public arena so far seems to point to at least a negligence case against Sedo with possibly worse to follow as far as they are concerned. The worst aspect for Sedo is that unless they can pacify 'all' the plaintiffs in this matter then there whole business operation will be sprawled out on the public courtroom floor for us all to see, and that is something they will definately not want to happen.

cac14850 said:

Not really, look at the end of those auctions as posted on dotmobiz. about a quarter (at least) are won by bidders who began in the last day/minutes of the sale.
On a seperate note, we know who the wnner was, as has been pointed out before he is not someone well known in the community but he is a legit buyer apparently.
I guess there is nothing anyone can do to stop the conspiracy theorists out there but do you truly think SEDO would risk the whole firm, and truly that is what they would be doing, by rigging the auction?

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we know who the winner was, but do we know the other two bidders (12 and 13) who drove the auction to 611k from 66k? Especially when 611k was the EXACT proxy bid of the original winner? How do you explain that bidders 12 and 13 were missing from the first auction but suddenly appeared in the restarted one? Don't tell me they're speculators. If they were speculators, they would've been in the first auction too (which they weren't). Its not that easy to find speculators with $550,000 in cash within the space of 2 hours, let me tell you.

Sedo is getting sued on this, bad.

TheBaldOne said:

cac14850, in answer to your question "but do you truly think SEDO would risk the whole firm, and truly that is what they would be doing, by rigging the auction?" The answer is 'yes' because they thought they would get away with it!

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There are much easier, indiscrete ways to rig an auction. If Sedo really wanted to rig it, I seriously doubt they would have chosen yesterday's big public fiasco method of doing so.

I don't have any experience at running an auction, but if I was going to "fix" one, I am certain I could do it without drawing all this unwanted attention.

I'm sure Sedo could, too, if they really wanted to. If they ever did decide to rig an auction, none of us would ever notice.

sashas said:

we know who the winner was, but do we know the other two bidders (12 and 13) who drove the auction to 611k from 66k? Especially when 611k was the EXACT proxy bid of the original winner? How do you explain that bidders 12 and 13 were missing from the first auction but suddenly appeared in the restarted one? Don't tell me they're speculators. If they were speculators, they would've been in the first auction too (which they weren't). Its not that easy to find speculators with $550,000 in cash within the space of 2 hours, let me tell you.

Sedo is getting sued on this, bad.

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because no one could bid in the waning minutes of the original auctions, had they been able too the initial auctions would have been incrementally extended - not that hard to understand how and why new bidders didn't enter until after they resarted.

sashas said:

How do you explain that bidders 12 and 13 were missing from the first auction but suddenly appeared in the restarted one?

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They were waiting until the last minute to bid in the first auction (a very common practice). The servers crashed before they could bid. Auction started again, they got their bids in.

allnicksgone said:

They were waiting until the last minute to bid in the first auction (a very common practice). The servers crashed before they could bid. Auction started again, they got their bids in.

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And that should be completely obvious to anyone who has ever participated in an online auction before...I usually wait until the 1-minute-remaining mark to place my bid on a domain or on anything at Ebay.

nobody is bothering looking at the facts

Ok I am fairly annoyed at the complete speculation thrown out here. I have pasted below the bidding history of music and see zero in it that is suspicious. We all know who bidder 12 is as he has made very public his anger at what happened (this post is not at all a comment on that). Two bidders get in after the restart. Complaints about that particular fact are fine but not my concern here. Bidder 14 drops out at 299,000. The auction goes up to 616,000, the reserve we know was 611. The winning bidder, who we know, bid it up and bid it up until he passed the reserve at which point there was not another bid and he won. What in this is odd?

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 09:07 PM CET 616,000 USD 423.251 EUR
304.106 GBP
Winning Bid!

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:57 PM CET 611,000 USD 419.816 EUR
301.638 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:57 PM CET 606,666 USD 416.838 EUR
299.498 GBP
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:53 PM CET 555,000 USD 381.338 EUR
273.992 GBP
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:53 PM CET 550,000 USD 377.903 EUR
271.523 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 516,000 USD 354.542 EUR
254.738 GBP
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 511,000 USD 351.106 EUR
252.270 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 506,666 USD 348.128 EUR
250.130 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 501,666 USD 344.693 EUR
247.662 GBP
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 419,100 USD 287.962 EUR
206.901 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:52 PM CET 416,600 USD 286.244 EUR
205.667 GBP
This offer caused the auction to get extended.

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:49 PM CET 368,500 USD 253.195 EUR
181.921 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:49 PM CET 366,000 USD 251.477 EUR
180.686 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:32 PM CET 301,500 USD 207.160 EUR
148.844 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 14 Dec/05/07 08:32 PM CET 299,000 USD 205.442 EUR
147.610 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:24 PM CET 287,500 USD 197.540 EUR
141.933 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:24 PM CET 285,000 USD 195.822 EUR
140.698 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:24 PM CET 247,500 USD 170.056 EUR
122.185 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:24 PM CET 245,000 USD 168.339 EUR
120.951 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 08:12 PM CET 207,500 USD 142.572 EUR
102.438 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 08:12 PM CET 205,000 USD 140.855 EUR
101.204 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 07:59 PM CET 187,500 USD 128.831 EUR
92.565 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 07:59 PM CET 185,000 USD 127.113 EUR
91.331 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 07:53 PM CET 152,500 USD 104.782 EUR
75.286 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 14 Dec/05/07 07:53 PM CET 150,000 USD 103.064 EUR
74.052 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 07:09 PM CET 103,500 USD 71.114 EUR
51.096 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 13 Dec/05/07 07:09 PM CET 101,000 USD 69.397 EUR
49.862 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 07:06 PM CET 81,000 USD 55.655 EUR
39.988 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 9 Dec/05/07 07:06 PM CET 80,000 USD 54.968 EUR
39.494 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 07:03 PM CET 76,000 USD 52.219 EUR
37.520 GBP
Bid automatically placed by Sedo.

Bidder 9 Dec/05/07 07:03 PM CET 75,000 USD 51.532 EUR
37.026 GBP

Bidder 12 Dec/05/07 05:53 PM CET 66,000 USD 45.348 EUR
32.583 GBP

jeremyp said:

The controversial conclusion to the auction is complicated. Ultimately, unfortunately, and likely too complicated for laymen to work out.

I deeply hope that SEDO and the bidders who "won" auctions can engage in a realistic conversation and result that doesn't lead to a legal matter.

IF it was very clear that there was no bidding on the site for the last X minutes, then a reasonable person may estimate a SEDO auction error...

For instance, and to the extreme, if SEDO had completely shut down 30 minutes before the auction end, and winner notices were sent out followed by immediate retraction, I'm not certain the legalities.

I am certain under that instance, MTLD would have a significant beef against SEDO.

I am also somewhat certain that under the current scenario, where there was a blip that affected bidding, MTLD would have had a significant beef if the auction had been shut down.

You want evidence to this?

Look at the bids at first auction "end" versus actual auction end. Dramatically different.

If a 2007 Bentley were at auction, and the auction blipped at the end with no possible bidding due to server errors and the final bid as $72,500 (or 25% of the actual value of the car), I'm not sure the winning bidder could expect a sale even with early assurances from the auction house.

What happened here was a mistake. It is unclear the result. It is clear that SEDO should address with the "winning" bidders of the first auction end time.

Finally...

Regarding the winning bidder of Music.mobi and Games.mobi...

It's none of our business whether he believes in God or Jesus or Neptune (for that matter).

What is important is that the second highest bidder bid a boatload of money for these names.

What is important is that the winning bidder will likely sell to end-users.

Ever heard of the phrase the whole is > then the sum of its parts. In this case, it could be true. The $1.5MM investment (or whatever) could be seen as a significant opportunity to a deep pocket content holder.

So, best of luck to all of you "winning bidders" and winning bidders... and everyone in between.

Jeremy Padawer

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I would agree with everything you said JP.

Only difference is this isn't a Bentley with a known, quantifiable value.
This is MUSIC.MOBI which after it broke the 200k mark is in uncharted teritory.
I agree that 66k for music is a steal, but we can all agree that the auction got hot and heavy after it re-opened the second time(big buyer came in), which by definition doesn't make it an auction anymore.

Something not smelling right...

pc

pcaero said:

I would agree with everything you said JP.

Only difference is this isn't a Bentley with a known, quantifiable value.
This is MUSIC.MOBI which after it broke the 200k mark is in uncharted teritory.
I agree that 66k for music is a steal, but we can all agree that the auction got hot and heavy after it re-opened the second time(big buyer came in), which by definition doesn't make it an auction anymore.

Something not smelling right...

pc

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You must adopt the same analysis for countless dotcom's that sell for prices far beyond understandable value. dotcom's go for outlandish prices day after day so your mobi-specific criticism must be generalized to all tld's with outlier sales. Upper echelon names in all extensions push the limits of fixed price structures. Music.xxx is not a commodity domain. It's more equivalent to a rare, one-of-a-kind collectible.

Now the auction glitch may have effected the final sales price but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the extension.

Carlton said:

You must adopt the same analysis for countless dotcom's that sell for prices far beyond understandable value. dotcom's go for outlandish prices day after day so your mobi-specific criticism must be generalized to all tld's with outlier sales. Upper echelon names in all extensions push the limits of fixed price structures. Music.xxx is not a commodity domain. It's more equivalent to a rare, one-of-a-kind collectible.

Now the auction glitch may have effected the final sales price but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the extension.

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Carlton, .com has been around for a long long time. No one doubts Invest.com for a million bucks because the extension has its intrinsic value - its the extension of the internet. .mobi is very very new, not completely backed, riding on a lot of hype. Thats why I'm skeptical of the sale. I'm not skeptical of the invest.com sale, because I know its s great name and Investment.com sold for a similar amount.

Mobi Cheap said:

Many good points there Jeremy, thank you!

The one I quoted above is the one I notice tends to get missed more than others.

And also - if I may add - the second highest bidders said in his own thread he only stopped bidding at $611k because he noticed the auction was opened to bidders who weren't there before the crash (or words to that effect, as far as I understand them correctly).

How far above $611k would he have gone before his pre-determined budget ran out otherwise? Only $5k? We'll probably never know but it seems a valid question to consider.
:imho:

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i would have gone at $1 million buddy. But I am not paying SEDO and those rats at MTLD a cent. I will invest $600k pursuing their greedy asses. By the way they had the audacity to make me an offer of $500k for mp3s.mobi following the auction. I told them they make me sick.

musicdotmobi said:

i would have gone at $1 million buddy. But I am not paying SEDO and those rats at MTLD a cent. I will invest $600k pursuing their greedy asses. By the way they had the audacity to make me an offer of $500k for mp3s.mobi following the auction. I told them they make me sick.

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Can't blame you for that - that offer in those circumstances would have been offensive to me as well.

Whatever happens, best of luck - you deserve it!
:imho:
P.S. Don't know if there is an ancient Greek equivalent for this, so hope you are not offended by that upstart Latin language:

Fors juvat audentes.

sashas said:

Carlton, .com has been around for a long long time. No one doubts Invest.com for a million bucks because the extension has its intrinsic value - its the extension of the internet. .mobi is very very new, not completely backed, riding on a lot of hype. Thats why I'm skeptical of the sale. I'm not skeptical of the invest.com sale, because I know its s great name and Investment.com sold for a similar amount.

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Mobi's still speculative by comparison, true. Business.com for 150k -> 7mil was considered insanity for its time because .com did not have the history it now has. The 600k + figure is certainly odds stetching for a domain in infancy. But there are numerous dotcoms without the obvious pull of 'Invest.com' that sell for grossly inflated prices. My point being I have seen even more profound speculation over time with dotcom than with practically any other extension.

And that in no way diminishes the merit of a .com sale like Invest.com or similar superior names.

You know what man, I might actually buy some .mobis now. As long as I can make a profit off it, I don't care who buys it. The bottomline is what matters. It might be all fluffy hype, but as long as I get a healthy ROI while the hype lasts, I won't mind the fluff.

emm. who's cheat ?

sashas said:

... as long as I get a healthy ROI while the hype lasts, I won't mind the fluff.

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LOL. Mobi is an anomaly in that it's gaining traction via investment, development, publicity, some legit backing, but an as-of-yet unclear destination akin to the early days of the internet. A driver for mobi is the consensus that mobile internet is a true phenomenon ... so most skeptics are caught in-between "this thing is going to fail vs. this might be huge". As you say, to play the odds may be a calculated risk worth taking. The "fluff" may turn out to be widespread use and acceptance if mobile users get familiar with the extension. Personally, I'm seeing real substance accumulate around mobi.