debate Why I'm Bidding On PC.guru and Travel.Agency

[betthelot]

There is a very famous saying by a Swedish psychologist regarding the 4 stages of grieving. First denial, then anger, blame and then acceptance!
I believe that same process happens when you hold beliefs and truths that are proven wrong and die.

There is a lot of people who think I'm in denial of the great opportunity the new gTLDs present. I would maintain its not me but they are in denial and already into the anger phase. The registries I think are already at stage 3 blame. Blaming ICANN for not marketing them to the public.

Denial is easy to prove, if as domainers on here say Travel.Agency is a 5 figure name and worth 6 figures in a few years, that represents a great return, why aren't they bidding on it? Its if domainers are hoping someone else will use their money, to affirm the domainers own belief.

I could be wrong and I'm in denial. My main stance has been they will not be adopted by businesses because they hurt the bottom line rather than enhance.
I would expect, when you try to sell them, business owners will push back on you regarding leaking traffic, leaking emails, heavier marketing costs to educate and the list goes on.

But rather than hold to these beliefs I should challange them. And if I'm wrong I can go straight to the acceptance stage and join the party. If I'm right, then potentially I lose some money, the risk I'm willing to take to test my beliefs and get first hand reactions from potential end users

So why PC.guru and Travel.Agency
PC.guru is probably one of the best names in that string. Its also only 2 letters and guru is quiet generic. The benefit with generic strings is they have a lot of words that can go left of the dot, its what I call a thick gTLD. Downside is competition, there is expert, pro, ninjia all going for the same space.

Travel.Agency again one of the best names in that string. But its a vertical gTLD which means its a thin gTLD, and has far less meaningfully words that can go left of the dot and so much less competition and options for the enduser.

PC.guru is worth less, but its got many potential endusers (small businesses) may be easier to sell, as the buy price should be quiet reasonable.

Travel.Agency sounds great but can it sell. There are many Travel Agencies but will they pay $10,000 plus for it let alone $100,000 some on here claim.

I'm not going to overpay - I have a good idea what I want to pay for Travel.Agency but PC.guru less so - if you have any feel for this one comment below.

Ideally I want to get them both because it tests both categories of the new gTLDs.
If I am the winner, for the first 3 months I will try outbound selling. If not successful I will leave them up for sale and wait for inbound enquries. If after 1 year I have not sold them, I will put them back up on a no reserve auction and then I can get information of what happened to the wholesale market in a year.

If I'm not successful with these 2 names I will purchase another 2 and let you know the buy price and what my sale price is. I would not be looking at a great return 20% will be enough, to get the best chance of selling and the information I am after.

 

[S-B]

Finally, someone putting their money where their mouth is.

More power to you.

 

[domainsoup]

Travel.Agency is worthless. The travel agency who buys will simply redirect it to their brand.com. They will not pay a huge premium for a redirect.

Auctions are bid up by domainers and speculators. No end user will pay even the amount that is currently at auction to get it.

A domainer will simply check the data indexed at namebio and refuse to pay you more than 10% than the price.

Also the renewal fee of over $400 per year makes it unattractive to both end users and domainers. It has negative value.

 

[Kingslayer]

Ok, but why not post this after you won explaining why you bought the domains?

People who want to win a auction tend to keep quiet and keep their cards close to their chest, keeping publicity to a minimum.

You creating a new thread explaining why you are bidding in an auction while an auction is ongoing is encouraging other people to bid too is it not? That tells me your not too bothered if you get them or not.

 

[wwwweb]

This is funny you know the whole point of an auction when you are a buyer is to be discrete, and not cause other bidders to bid you up.

 

[asset.domains]

at least he is honest and explaining in realtime what he thinks.

 

[betthelot]

Ok, but why not post this after you won explaining why you bought the domains?

People who want to win a auction tend to keep quiet and keep their cards close to their chest, keeping publicity to a minimum.

You creating a new thread explaining why you are bidding in an auction while an auction is ongoing is encouraging other people to bid too is it not? That tells me your not too bothered if you get them or not.

Thought about that. Flippa the bidding is anomonous and I have been so vocal against them, if I announced it after, I would have been called duplicitous. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. As I said if I don't get these 2 I will another 2 of a similar nature. Fair question but I wanted to be upfront. You can argue for both sides but I took that decision.

 

[betthelot]

This is funny you know the whole point of an auction when you are a buyer is to be discrete, and not cause other bidders to bid you up.

sure but it's anominous and I have a budget. But that is the risk.

 

[brindle123]

It sounds like a very pricey gamble.
It's great that you want to test the new gtld waters, but maybe you should do so with something that you can find for reg fee. There are still some great domains to be had in the .online space. They are a cheaper gamble than the $400 renewal or what it will cost you to win the auction. (I'm not sure where or when the auction is)

Also, I don't think it's a very good strategy to tell the whole NP community exactly what domain you will be bidding on. That's like throwing chum in the water or cutting yourself before swimming with the sharks.

I'm not saying you shouldn't play in the gtld space, but you should be very careful. I put about $250 onto the gtld roulette wheel just to see what would happen. There was some great stuff that was still available that was being overlooked by everyone going after LLL and NNNN's. I only got things that really worked and made sense with the gltd.

I like Travel.Agency and PC.guru, but you may have created a bidding war against yourself just by talking about it, or saying you will be bidding on them. Just be careful jumping into the gtld market at that level. I don't want to see you lose your cash. If you know something or someone and can get it for a decent price that you think that at the very least you could unload it for the same amount, then go for it and place your bet. Otherwise spread that same amount of cash around other gtlds that you can find for reg fee.

I didn't think I could find anything good for a reg fee, but I was wrong. I got a couple single keyword domains, some LLLL words, two-word category killers that had been missed.

If you do win them, don't wait for inbound offers. You need to work them for the entire year before your premium renewal.
If I was you and wanted to win that auction, I would delete this thread or lock it up until after the auction.
Good luck on the auction.

 

[betthelot]

Thanks Brindle. I wanted a catgorey killer and a good generic. Be hard to get that at reg fee. Also I wanted it to be two names that common consensus are they are good. I didn't want a load of hot air about it was the wrong name or wrong extension. I've set a budget and won't go over it.
I want to test my theory on end users, get an insight and willing to pay for it.

 

[garptrader]

I would admit there are some new TLDs that do sound innovative or suitable for a startup. The challenge from an investment vantage point is that in many cases the most logical combinations with any new string were reserved or came with premium pricing and/or renewals. As well, with so many new TLDs being launched at once and knowing how difficult it has to been to sell .Net and .TV and even.COM domains, I saw the new TLDs as an easy way for a domainer to go bankrupt. There were too many combinations and these extensions had no track record of selling to end users. If I was struggling with end users not willing to pay serious money for an aftermarket domain in already existing extensions, why were things going to suddenly change for a thousand new extensions? I see no issue with making a ~5% stake in new TLDs... say 25 domains spread across several different extensions for a 500-domain portfolio (NONE with premium i.e. higher than $50 renewals). The big mistake I believe most newbies are making is that their portfolios are primarily new TLDs which are going to be illiquid at anything other than reseller prices for years.

As another poster mentioned, one should be aware of the renewals. While I have dropped most of my .Net domains because they are so difficult to sell, with .TV you have a double-whammy - resistance by end users and renewals of $28-$30 year which consume the proceeds from the occasional sale. It is usually not that difficult to find potential buyers for a domain name - Google/Bing the domains' keywords and see who appears on the first several pages, look for social media profiles with similar keywords, etc. However, getting someone to actually open their wallet for a domain when they were doing just fine without it yesterday is much more difficult than newbies realize.

The registries have promoted new TLDs as this phenomenal investment opportunity like existed back in the 90s long before newbies were of age to have participated in the namespace. The reality is domaining is an easy way to lose a lot of money. Buying domains in extensions which do not have a track record of regular aftermarket sales is a quick way to financial ruin. Don't tout the list of new TLD sales which are mostly registry sales. Keep in mind there are now some 15 million new TLDs so yes there will be a few sales and the occasional domainer who has beaten the odds. Most newbies who load up on new TLDs without first having learned what makes a domain name in .COM valuable will fail miserably.

I would love to see end users embrace domains as branding and marketing tools worth paying serious money for. However, my experience has been that end users are generally satisfied with inferior-quality domains and extremely reluctant to paying for a better domain because "they already have one" or they view domainers as fraudsters. Hopefully that will change in the next five years because despite my frustration with end users, I still believe in the branding power of domain names.

 

[betthelot]

I would admit there are some new TLDs that do sound innovative or suitable for a startup. The challenge from an investment vantage point is that in many cases the most logical combinations with any new string were reserved or came with premium pricing and/or renewals. As well, with so many new TLDs being launched at once and knowing how difficult it has to been to sell .Net and .TV and even.COM domains, I saw the new TLDs as an easy way for a domainer to go bankrupt. There were too many combinations and these extensions had no track record of selling to end users. If I was struggling with end users not willing to pay serious money for an aftermarket domain in already existing extensions, why were things going to suddenly change for a thousand new extensions? I see no issue with making a ~5% stake in new TLDs... say 25 domains spread across several different extensions for a 500-domain portfolio (NONE with premium i.e. higher than $50 renewals). The big mistake I believe most newbies are making is that their portfolios are primarily new TLDs which are going to be illiquid at anything other than reseller prices for years.

As another poster mentioned, one should be aware of the renewals. While I have dropped most of my .Net domains because they are so difficult to sell, with .TV you have a double-whammy - resistance by end users and renewals of $28-$30 year which consume the proceeds from the occasional sale. It is usually not that difficult to find potential buyers for a domain name - Google/Bing the domains' keywords and see who appears on the first several pages, look for social media profiles with similar keywords, etc. However, getting someone to actually open their wallet for a domain when they were doing just fine without it yesterday is much more difficult than newbies realize.

The registries have promoted new TLDs as this phenomenal investment opportunity like existed back in the 90s long before newbies were of age to have participated in the namespace. The reality is domaining is an easy way to lose a lot of money. Buying domains in extensions which do not have a track record of regular aftermarket sales is a quick way to financial ruin. Don't tout the list of new TLD sales which are mostly registry sales. Keep in mind there are now some 15 million new TLDs so yes there will be a few sales and the occasional domainer who has beaten the odds. Most newbies who load up on new TLDs without first having learned what makes a domain name in .COM valuable will fail miserably.

I would love to see end users embrace domains as branding and marketing tools worth paying serious money for. However, my experience has been that end users are generally satisfied with inferior-quality domains and extremely reluctant to paying for a better domain because "they already have one" or they view domainers as fraudsters. Hopefully that will change in the next five years because despite my frustration with end users, I still believe in the branding power of domain names.

Very well said. I agree with those sentiments. Certainly going to be a tiny fraction of my portfolio and I'm going to learn a lot and have a bit of fun along the way. I enjoy talking to end users with a crediable offering, as it gives you information and connections even if you don't make the sale. Just got to have thick skin, as our rep is crap and I see TM domains on here; complain to namepros and they do nothing and only will if they try to sell it rather than 'showcase' it. Does the community no favours. Check it out Genting.bet.

 

[Grego85]

so you're not sure if Travel . Agency will sell to an end user for at least 10k, but you seem to think you're serious about winning its auction, which is already at practically 5k with weeks left to go.

Where's my Jennifer Lawrence "OK" gif?

 

[wot]

Sounds like you are in need of my DN.Guru ,perhaps I should put that on Flippa as well?

 

[betthelot]

so you're not sure if Travel . Agency will sell to an end user for at least 10k, but you seem to think you're serious about winning its auction, which is already at practically 5k with weeks left to go.

Where's my Jennifer Lawrence "OK" gif?

Yep I'm going to test my beliefs. Difference being were you think it will go for 40k and at 5k it must be way undervalued, you still will not bid.
And I'm waiting for the answer on you don't need a TM to win a UDRP, which was so clear and obvious to you. I back up my convictions and statements. You just reply with gifs and silence when challenged.

 

[betthelot]

Sounds like you are in need of my DN.Guru ,perhaps I should put that on Flippa as well?

No thank you, could only sell it to a domainer whose pro new gTLDs and they are hard to part with their money, unless it's grabbed from the registry.

 

[wot]

No thank you, could only sell it to a domainer whose pro new gTLDs and they are hard to part with their money, unless it's grabbed from the registry.

Agreed.

However, if it was sold direct/auctioned by the registry it would be mid $xx,xxx, plenty of evidence of that happening,cynical perhaps but easy to see.

 

[garptrader]

Why is that domainers will price their fresh handreg or backorder domain at four to five figures but will never pay more than backorder for a domain? If they really believe that a particular domain could be sold to an end user for $5k, then why would they not be willing to pay $1500 for it? Or if a domain could be sold for $1500, why would they not pay $500. It seems the only price any domainer will pay is backorder unless the name is a Namejet auction.

 

[betthelot]

Why is that domainers will price their fresh handreg or backorder domain at four to five figures but will never pay more than backorder for a domain? If they really believe that a particular domain could be sold to an end user for $5k, then why would they not be willing to pay $1500 for it? Or if a domain could be sold for $1500, why would they not pay $500. It seems the only price any domainer will pay is backorder unless the name is a Namejet auction.

It s because they are in denial. Lack confidence in their convictions and this whole show is being funded by domainers. I will test my belief with hard currency.

 

[garptrader]

Domainers are the biggest consumers of domain names. Without end users to pay for the party how long does it last?

 

[betthelot]

Domainers are the biggest consumers of domain names. Without end users to pay for the party how long does it last?

Another 2 years max. We got form with .mobi and .tel. It drops dramatically. This time you have a lot of registries pumping propaganda so thats why it will be another 2 years. What gets me is domainers are holding up the show but get treated like dirt from the registries. Remember Uniregistry announced that all .link names were going to be at hand reg. Then reserved 1,000s and regged 1,000s themselves as North Sounding names.

 

[james haw]

Travel.Agency is worthless. The travel agency who buys will simply redirect it to their brand.com.

If something is bought by someone then it is not worthless, even if it's only worth something to that one person. Also, there are a lot of bids on this name, and it's a nice sounding/looking keyword.TLD pairing. It's not worthless at all. Maybe 90% of .Agency is pointless, but this one is not IMO.

 

[Grego85]

Yep I'm going to test my beliefs. Difference being were you think it will go for 40k and at 5k it must be way undervalued, you still will not bid.
And I'm waiting for the answer on you don't need a TM to win a UDRP, which was so clear and obvious to you. I back up my convictions and statements. You just reply with gifs and silence when challenged.

I said I won't be surprised if it goes for that amount, not that I think it probably will. As far as the TM related chat, I was not a part of that discussion, like at all. When I said clear and obvious I was referring to what another poster was trying to tell you, to start a new thread with your off topic thread flooding. That is btw what it is called when you consistently post 2 or 3 times in a row in multiple threads to get your point across. Lets try to consolidate your clamor to one post at a time hunh?

All that aside, my question for you is: How do you think you're going to leave any room for profit on Travel . Agency, when you said in your OP that you're not sure it will fetch 10k from an end user and the auction currently sits at half that with still 3 weeks left? Something doesn't add up. For someone that is not confident in this new gtld name or new gtlds in general you all of the sudden seem to be willing to take a hell of a gamble on a mainstream auction for one of those names?

I'd love the name, I'm not bidding because I'm smart enough to know what is out of my league at this present time. I'm eying names that are almost as good, without the auction price or premium renewal fees.

 

[gustave]

A lot of new gtlds are still gonna come out, why not invest 500$ or a little more on a landrush to get a premium like Travel.agency (like owner of travel.agency did) instead of bidding XXXX$ on this? Also if I were you I'd get brandables like 1 letters new gtlds that can make a great brand, instead of an exact match that probably no company will want to use.

 

[Nazz]

I am not sure why anyone would publicly announce what domain they are making a play for and why they are doing so.. I mean that generates more competition right..?