debate Why I'm Bidding On PC.guru and Travel.Agency

[betthelot]

There is a very famous saying by a Swedish psychologist regarding the 4 stages of grieving. First denial, then anger, blame and then acceptance!
I believe that same process happens when you hold beliefs and truths that are proven wrong and die.

There is a lot of people who think I'm in denial of the great opportunity the new gTLDs present. I would maintain its not me but they are in denial and already into the anger phase. The registries I think are already at stage 3 blame. Blaming ICANN for not marketing them to the public.

Denial is easy to prove, if as domainers on here say Travel.Agency is a 5 figure name and worth 6 figures in a few years, that represents a great return, why aren't they bidding on it? Its if domainers are hoping someone else will use their money, to affirm the domainers own belief.

I could be wrong and I'm in denial. My main stance has been they will not be adopted by businesses because they hurt the bottom line rather than enhance.
I would expect, when you try to sell them, business owners will push back on you regarding leaking traffic, leaking emails, heavier marketing costs to educate and the list goes on.

But rather than hold to these beliefs I should challange them. And if I'm wrong I can go straight to the acceptance stage and join the party. If I'm right, then potentially I lose some money, the risk I'm willing to take to test my beliefs and get first hand reactions from potential end users

So why PC.guru and Travel.Agency
PC.guru is probably one of the best names in that string. Its also only 2 letters and guru is quiet generic. The benefit with generic strings is they have a lot of words that can go left of the dot, its what I call a thick gTLD. Downside is competition, there is expert, pro, ninjia all going for the same space.

Travel.Agency again one of the best names in that string. But its a vertical gTLD which means its a thin gTLD, and has far less meaningfully words that can go left of the dot and so much less competition and options for the enduser.

PC.guru is worth less, but its got many potential endusers (small businesses) may be easier to sell, as the buy price should be quiet reasonable.

Travel.Agency sounds great but can it sell. There are many Travel Agencies but will they pay $10,000 plus for it let alone $100,000 some on here claim.

I'm not going to overpay - I have a good idea what I want to pay for Travel.Agency but PC.guru less so - if you have any feel for this one comment below.

Ideally I want to get them both because it tests both categories of the new gTLDs.
If I am the winner, for the first 3 months I will try outbound selling. If not successful I will leave them up for sale and wait for inbound enquries. If after 1 year I have not sold them, I will put them back up on a no reserve auction and then I can get information of what happened to the wholesale market in a year.

If I'm not successful with these 2 names I will purchase another 2 and let you know the buy price and what my sale price is. I would not be looking at a great return 20% will be enough, to get the best chance of selling and the information I am after.

 

[Kate]

He probably knows he's going to be outbid anyway. But willing to give it a shot.

It's true, domainers don't always put their money where their mouth is.
How many of those TLD sellers would use a new extension for their business ? I mean a real, real-life business, not a blog or a single-page listing of domains for sale.

OK, at least they invested (or wasted) some funds but they still fail at leading by example.
It's more like the greater fool theory in action.

 

[mad409]

@betthelot

Am I understanding you, although you think new gTLD's will fail, now you're publicly announcing that your trying to win Travel.Agency? And PC.Guru? I'm confused by your actions to say the least...

Firstly if this is some kind of a test why get involved in an auction that I predict will end at around 7.5 K, with a $500.00 renewal?

Don't misunderstand me I think it's a great name but although I too think it will raise in value over time there's many good one's selling cheap, or grab a new one at launch. Also the reason you won't see a lot of gTLD investors like myself bidding on this name is because we've already built a portfolio of great names long ago which can sell for as much or even more than the two you've mentioned. We're also still active in new launches, going for the best one's so we can sell much higher at a later date like these being auctioned.

I could rattle on, that's enough but this is your third thread, implosion of new gTLDs, What will Travel.Agency sell for and now you're wanting to purchase these two names. Are you serious, or a paid poster?

 

[domainsoup]

If something is bought by someone then it is not worthless, even if it's only worth something to that one person. Also, there are a lot of bids on this name, and it's a nice sounding/looking keyword.TLD pairing. It's not worthless at all. Maybe 90% of .Agency is pointless, but this one is not IMO.

It might not be worthless, but it surely has negative value. The renewal fee is way too much.

True there are a lot of bids. But it's domainers. It's an ego's game about who has deeper pockets. Doesn't mean it's worth anything.

Disagree about this name being the best. It's a generic that won't sell to an enduser for a very long time if at all. If it does it will sell for little or no profit.

Frank can't even offload Talent.Agency and he has all the resources at his disposal. No endusers for these names.

 

[DomainVP]

Travel.Agency is one of the best gTLD domains out there.

The key point to why gTLD's are mostly bad is that not many of them make sense, and the ones that do are ransomed for high renewals and purchase prices.

I'm not sure why there is still this ongoing gTLD debate, if the domain name makes sense as a phrase or domain hack it is premium. That's all there is to it.

As for the acceptance of gTLDs as a whole - don't hold your breath.

Maybe in 13 years teens of the day will use them for personal webpages, but that's money for the registries and registrars - not for investors. How much is a kid going to spend on a domain?

As for today, if you want to be a serious public business you should own the shortest .COM that is relevant to your business.

 

[bluebox]

So let me get this straight - you think nTLDs are worthless (just look at your recent threads) and to prove it you'll spend thousands of dollars?
This weird obsession with new extensions is pretty unhealthily - and spending that kind of money to prove others wrong is just idiotic. If you have spare $xxxx how about donating it to charity or something?

You are either very bored millionaire.... or you work for Verisign (?)

There's also a chance you are good buddies with Ali Zandi and this is just an advertisement for his auction.... No one is their right mind would announce they are bidding on something - this will just increase the final price and cause you to spend more and have lower profit/bigger loss.

I truly don't get this thread?

 

[james haw]

It might not be worthless, but it surely has negative value

That is contradictory - "worthless" = "no real value or use"

If you mean as re-flip potential, it can arguably be increased because of this very auction as it shows a previous value. I'm not saying re-flip will be more, but it's an absolute consideration.

The sale of this auction is the present market value of the domain name, whether you agree or think it's stupid it's a fact. That's what it sold for, that's what you'd pay for it now, ergo the present market value. Whether future sales can be matched or higher is another matter, but there are 7 people bidding above $3.5K
https://flippa.com/auctions/6122064/bids


I respect and understand your opinion, but the facts are right there to strengthen predictions based on actual facts, and to negate a chunk of personal opinion.

No end user will pay even the amount that is currently at auction to get it.

Do you have any facts, data, or even extended opinion to back up such a basic and speculative claim? How do you know that 5 travel agencies (or brokers on their behalf) are not already bidding on this?

The travel agency who buys will simply redirect it to their brand.com.

I thought you said "No travel agency will buy this.."?

Domains have sold for 6 figures which redirect, domains are investments adding value to a company. If a travel agency uses this as a redirect (as you stated), then that's an "end user" + 10X ROI, which means it's not worthless. Domain sold for a good ROI, end user using it, job done with value/worth surely?

A domainer will simply check the data indexed at namebio and refuse to pay you more than 10% than the price.

That's only one possible scenario of many.

The domain may never sell again, and in 2-3 years we see it drop, but given the facts this is unlikely, even if re-sold for a lesser amount it'll likely remain in 4 figures. But over time I think it will increase in value considering the increase in new gTLD acceptance (premium of course)

Also the renewal fee of over $400 per year makes it unattractive to both end users and domainers.

That's right, because travel agencies are a little hard up and don't have $400 to spare to renew a domain name :D

Any domainer with $5K for investment is not scared off by $400 per year. They will simply consider 3-4 years X the $400 as part of the investment.



Given the fact it's up to $5K with 57 bids surely shows it's not worthless and has value? Whether bids are other domainers, end users, investors, or punks without a clue, the dam thing is mid 4 figures so has value.



(Just chewin' the fat )

 

[betthelot]

@betthelot
I could rattle on, that's enough but this is your third thread, implosion of new gTLDs, What will Travel.Agency sell for and now you're wanting to purchase these two names. Are you serious, or a paid poster?

Yes Im serious, I had an epiphany when reading your comments.
Paid poster, pretty hard to work out who would pay me, new gTLDs nope Im calling them out. Versign nope I am so small Im not even a spec of dust on their radar. Ali, never communicated with the guy until after I did the post. It was you that suggested Ali should put in a request to namespro to remove the thread as it was damaging to his auction.

These two names are very representative of the two sectors in the new gTLDs. If I dont get these I will get another 2 of similar ilk and I will be totally open about what return or loss I achieve as a domainer. Not just the headline loss/profit but the number of phone calls, emails, time, reactions from endusers.

One thing we dont have a handle on is opportunity costs. ie if I invested the same money and time in 2 .coms after 1 year what has gained more.

Just trying to get empirical data rather than all these statements we see with nothing to back it up.

Thats it now, Im not going to keep repeating the reasons why Im doing this because I have laid them out and replied at least three times on the issue. Take it at face value or dont.
And its four posts, you forgot a Headless.Domainer in a Topless.Bar

 

[betthelot]

As far as the TM related chat, I was not a part of that discussion, like at all. When I said clear and obvious I was referring to what another poster was trying to tell you, to start a new thread with your off topic thread flooding. That is btw what it is called when you consistently post 2 or 3 times in a row in multiple threads to get your point across. Lets try to consolidate your clamor to one post at a time hunh?

You do make me laugh. 168 stated you dont need a TM for a UDRP win and Im trying to get him to point to one example and you accuse me of clamour. Clamour is just noise, when you dont back up your statements. By saying start another thread, when you have raised the issue, is avoiding the question and if you want knowledge, you should have pushed back on him not me.

 

[Ali]

There's also a chance you are good buddies with Ali Zandi

You would be wise not to make assumptions that question my character. My marketing game is on point. I don't need someone to create a forum thread to push my domain, bro. I got that handled on my own.

 

[brindle123]

You would be wise not to make assumptions that question my character. My marketing game is on point. I don't need someone to create a forum thread to push my domain, bro. I got that handled on my own.

I was wondering when you were going to chime in. I'm glad you put that one to rest. This was a weird thread and strategy (no offense betthelot or Zandibot) to say what you're going to bid on before the auction ends.

It's a great domain and I wish you both luck on the auction.

betthelot,
If you don't win the auction, please do yourself a favor and not talk about the exact details of the next two gtlds you go after. It will save you from having to deal with all this crap. It also might save you some money in the next auction.
Again, good luck to both of you.

 

[domainsoup]

That is contradictory - "worthless" = "no real value or use"

If you mean as re-flip potential, it can arguably be increased because of this very auction as it shows a previous value. I'm not saying re-flip will be more, but it's an absolute consideration.

The sale of this auction is the present market value of the domain name, whether you agree or think it's stupid it's a fact. That's what it sold for, that's what you'd pay for it now, ergo the present market value. Whether future sales can be matched or higher is another matter, but there are 7 people bidding above $3.5K


I respect and understand your opinion, but the facts are right there to strengthen predictions based on actual facts, and to negate a chunk of personal opinion.




Do you have any facts, data, or even extended opinion to back up such a basic and speculative claim? How do you know that 5 travel agencies (or brokers on their behalf) are not already bidding on this?




I thought you said "No travel agency will buy this.."?

Domains have sold for 6 figures which redirect, domains are investments adding value to a company. If a travel agency uses this as a redirect (as you stated), then that's an "end user" + 10X ROI, which means it's not worthless. Domain sold for a good ROI, end user using it, job done with value/worth surely?






That's only one possible scenario of many.

The domain may never sell again, and in 2-3 years we see it drop, but given the facts this is unlikely, even if re-sold for a lesser amount it'll likely remain in 4 figures. But over time I think it will increase in value considering the increase in new gTLD acceptance (premium of course)




That's right, because travel agencies are a little hard up and don't have $400 to spare to renew a domain name :D

Any domainer with $5K for investment is not scared off by $400 per year. They will simply consider 3-4 years X the $400 as part of the investment.



Given the fact it's up to $5K with 57 bids surely shows it's not worthless and has value? Whether bids are other domainers, end users, investors, or punks without a clue, the dam thing is mid 4 figures so has value.



(Just chewin' the fat )

7 bidders over 3.5K but I'm pretty sure they are all domainers. I can't be certain, but I am almost certain that the winner of the auction will be one. The discrepancy of money spent should be a clue. Bidder 1 has spent $68,000 on Flippa acquisitions. Not many people on here will ever spend half of that in their entire life on domains. That bidder has done that on 1 platform.

What's more likely is Frank Shilling is adding to his collection. He has no issue spending money. He will spend 30k. It's about ego. He wants to show who is the boss.

The renewal is crazy. 2K in renewal fees after 5 years. Add that to a sale of 20k (projection). Convincing someone to pay 22k for a domain extension no one knows about?

Paying XXX,XXX for redirect is usually stupid. Heck even paying XXXX for redirect is usually stupid. Whether it's been done or not, doesn't make it less of a risky investment. There are different levels of course. The BEST use of this (a rare non stupid redirect) is monster.com owning jobs.com. But that domain is maybe the best llll.com in the entire market. It's the best keyword on the extension everyone uses. It's smart.

Travel agencies are not bidding for this. It's domainers. And egos. You will see. It will be a domainnamesales parked page when the auction is over.

 

[domainsoup]

You would be wise not to make assumptions that question my character. My marketing game is on point. I don't need someone to create a forum thread to push my domain, bro. I got that handled on my own.

Hi Zandibot. Quick question for you. If you want to make a lot of money from this sale why not list it at the right of the dot auction?
Why Flippa?

 

[betthelot]

betthelot,
If you don't win the auction, please do yourself a favor and not talk about the exact details of the next two gtlds you go after. It will save you from having to deal with all this crap. It also might save you some money in the next auction.
Again, good luck to both of you.

Exactly Brindle, I dont need to.
When I come back with updates either with these two or others that I will bid on confidentially, no one can have conspiracy theories.

 

[Ali]

Hi Zandibot. Quick question for you. If you want to make a lot of money from this sale why not list it at the right of the dot auction?
Why Flippa?

Simply put, it was not for sale then.

And why not Flippa? To me, it's the only marketplace that let's me write a description, attach a logo, and communicate directly with potential buyers. Plus, if enough people hear about it, it doesn't quite matter where the auction is. Unless we are taking things like alcohol, bravado, and adrenaline increasing bidding at a live auction into consideration... Had the domain been for sale then, it would have likely been sold at the live auction. But regardless, from my current options, I prefer Flippa because of how I can intertwine it with my personal workflow. So, instead of reaching out to everyone individually, I can bring them all to one place, and let them decide to whom it's more valuable to.

 

[Josh R]

This is the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while....

 

[bluebox]

If you don't win the auction, please do yourself a favor and not talk about the exact details of the next two gtlds you go after. It will save you from having to deal with all this crap.

Bizarre controversial acts lead to - surprise surprise, a controversy. Seems like this is precisely why betthelot created this thread.
Although what's his main agenda? - I don't know. Spending thousands of dollars just to have a 5-minute hollow "Ha! I was right!" moment is a little bit excessive and doesn't really make sense.
Or maybe it's just me who thinks that this money (and time) could spend on something more productive...?

 

[domainsoup]

Need to rename the thread to
Day 1 of the implosion of Betthelot: I will renew even if its $400/year!

 

[RU]

To me, the PC dot guru don't worth more than $150-$250.
Travel dot agency is a really nice name!

 

[Domain Galleria]

Is this a form of ad? Two different threads on same auction. Hope @NamePros would be able to cope if this end up becoming an antecedent? Have nothing personal against anyone but I am a bit worried as forum members may begin to come up with sales pitch for their friends' domains in the name of expressing their love for their ''preferred domain''?

 

[garptrader]

A $400 renewal is a high hurdle for a long-term domain holding and it is dangerous to assume any domain can be quickly flipped at an ideal sales price. Quick flips are generally only possible by heavily discounting price. For an end user $400 yearly is no big deal but it is likely this domain has already been shopped to potential end users and there was no interest - thus the auction to domainers. A skilled development team could probably turn this domain into a nice travel site. But developers quite often don't like paying a lot for domains as they would prefer to invest their resources in the project. Newbies who have been buying new TLDs with premium renewals have not yet experienced the pain of a few renewal cycles with multiple premium renewals. I recall seeing numerous .TV holders with premium .TV domains complaining about $250-$500 annual renewals. Fortunately I never acquired any such names but even $28-$30 .TV renewals are a burden once you acquire enough names.

 

[DNScholar]

2 options here for Travel.Agency domain:
If bought by end user this is going to be top sites.
and If bought by domainer than flip within a couple of years will save renewal fees and to do that need to market aggressively to end user.

 

[Cdomains]

You are insane and deluded if you believe paying up for those domains is a good idea.

Even if the new tld's magically take off and rise in value, which I believe is not going to happen any time soon, who is going to pay up for a domain like travel.agency.

Travel agencies generally are small businesses and not large companies with big wallets.

What travel agency is going to fork up enough money to cover your investment in the name and still leave room for a profit. Wake up man. You are living in dreamland!

 

[dbustin]

Well you are at least right about the four stages, we are on blame now with everyone blaming you and Zandi for driving interest and having motives. I hope acceptance comes next.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Your bid is holding up. Unless you bid, then had second thoughts. Did you just make one bid for the sake of starting a thread?
Bids are up $250 in 1 week, so it sells for no more than 8k, lucky u
and as FX said, local results appear in search.
MissionParkTravel, i heard their ad on radio.Flightcentre is up there
I could rank #1 for the search just as easily as the top ad.
I am not paying $4 a click and $400 renewals.
People want a local travel agency, not a lead generation site. Local phone number. Go to the mall FlightCentre is there, and above the fold. No wonder travelagency.com is a parked waste.
All the best in your bidding, and good luck Sherpa Ali.
And to think their in cahoots borders on idiocy.

 

[Landov]

So, instead of reaching out to everyone individually, I can bring them all to one place, and let them decide to whom it's more valuable to.

Great idea, Ali !