domains Why I have not given up on New gTLDs!

[Lox]

by Jeff Neuman

"Why even have more TLDs when most of the ones from 2012 were "failures"?

This is what we hear the most. But they are generally from domain name industry insiders that have an interest in protecting their existing assets or from those that benefit greatly from the artificial scarcity of top-level domains. We also hear this from some intellectual property specialists that bear the burden of protecting their clients' trademarks and have more of a burden with each launch of a new TLD.

To them I say.....Who are you to judge the success or failure of the new gTLD Program? We shouldn't judge the success or failure of TLDs in terms of numbers of registrations or what the resale value of second level domains are within a TLD. For even if there is one registrant that depends on a domain name registered on a new gTLD domain name extension for their business or livelihood, then who are we to ever described that gTLD as a failure. Who are we to tell that registrant that their whole life's work is on a "failed" domian space. At the end of the day, we launch new registries for them and if the gTLD is secure, works, and does what the end users expect it to do, then all other opinions are just that....opinions.

New gTLDs were created, and are created, to give consumers a choice. The new gTLD Program is about removing the artificial barriers that exist in the creation of new TLDs while at the same time protecting consumers and preserving the safety and security of the Internet. It was not put in place to appease the existing market or preserve ...

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[bmugford]

ngtld registry owners/operators:

DNS tech
Ex and/or still Domain Investors or Domainers
Ex ICANN etc org

There have already been plenty of new gTLD shenanigans. It is kind of like the Wild West compared to more regulated, predictable registries.

Just a few that come to mind are .XYZ and their forced stuffing of registrations.
They registered domains in people's names and put them in their Network Solutions account without permission. You had to manually opt-out. I have never seen that with another registry. Nor, should it be allowed under ICANN policies.

Uniregistry lead by Frank Schilling introduced massive premium registration/renewal fees to several of their extensions. They initially were even going to raise it on existing registrations, until they backed down. This still lead to GoDaddy dropping their extensions in the interest of protecting customers.

Or, how about a registry re-classifying existing registrations as "premiums" and autobilling people hundreds or thousands of dollars for them -

https://www.namepros.com/threads/tu...sbs-and-cfd-to-avoid-unexpected-bill.1290692/

This does not even include the general clusterfuck of reserved terms, premium registrations, renewals, renewal tiers, etc.

Greed is the driving force behind the vast majority of these decisions.

You can't expect registry operators to just "do the right thing" on their own. You need actual contractual language that prevents this type of nonsense.

Brad

 

[Lox]

There have already been plenty of new gTLD shenanigans. It is kind of like the Wild West compared to more regulated, predictable registries.

Just a few that come to mind are .XYZ and their forced stuffing of registrations.
They registered domains in people's names and put them in their Network Solutions account without permission. You had to manually opt-out. I have never seen that with another registry. Nor, should it be allowed under ICANN policies.


You can't expect registry operators to just "do the right thing" on their own.

I'm well aware of the shady ping pong games.

Network Solution and other registrars "pumped" .online, .live .shop, etc (donuts mostly) also. They also painted the ngtlds as a "must have" and "brand protection".

Regards

 

[bmugford]

I'm well aware of the shady ping pong games.

Network Solution and other registrars "pumped" .online, .live .shop, etc (donuts mostly) also. They also painted the ngtlds as a "must have" and "brand protection".

Regards

Yeah, you also have the brand protection rackets like .sucks and others charging thousands of dollars to "protect" your brand.

There is no reason these type of extensions should exist, when their only real potential stream of revenue is from brand owners for "protection".

Brad

 

[ThatNameGuy]

There have already been plenty of new gTLD shenanigans. It is kind of like the Wild West compared to more regulated, predictable registries.

Just a few that come to mind are .XYZ and their forced stuffing of registrations.
They registered domains in people's names and put them in their Network Solutions account without permission. You had to manually opt-out. I have never seen that with another registry. Nor, should it be allowed under ICANN policies.

Uniregistry lead by Frank Schilling introduced massive premium registration/renewal fees to several of their extensions. They initially were even going to raise it on existing registrations, until they backed down. This still lead to GoDaddy dropping their extensions in the interest of protecting customers.

Or, how about a registry re-classifying existing registrations as "premiums" and autobilling people hundreds or thousands of dollars for them -


This does not even include the general clusterfuck of reserved terms, premium registrations, renewals, renewal tiers, etc.

Greed is the driving force behind the vast majority of these decisions.

You can't expect registry operators to just "do the right thing" on their own. You need actual contractual language that prevents this type of nonsense.

Brad

"Greed is the driving force behind the vast majority of these decisions."

Greed is the driving force behind the entire domain industry, and lets not leave out .com and the secondary/aftermarket. However, here's where I see OPPORTUNITY

 

[bmugford]

"Greed is the driving force behind the vast majority of these decisions."

Greed is the driving force behind the entire domain industry, and lets not leave out .com and the secondary/aftermarket. However, here's where I see OPPORTUNITY

Sure, but I am also not the one spouting this self-serving nonsense like I am some agent of good helping humanity with domains, like the original post (below) -

New gTLDs were created, and are created, to give consumers a choice. The new gTLD Program is about removing the artificial barriers that exist in the creation of new TLDs while at the same time protecting consumers and preserving the safety and security of the Internet.

They were largely created to make money, not for some greater good. End of story.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Jeff is CLO of dot Hip Hop ... by teasing (testing) their (automated) marketing efforts on Twitter, I lose interest in investing or by helping them develop healthy marketing habits.

.HIPHOP is one of the worst extensions in existence.

A (2) word extension with very limited terms that fit.

No wonder he is making the argument that even one end user isn't a failure -

To them I say.....Who are you to judge the success or failure of the new gTLD Program? We shouldn't judge the success or failure of TLDs in terms of numbers of registrations or what the resale value of second level domains are within a TLD. For even if there is one registrant that depends on a domain name registered on a new gTLD domain name extension for their business or livelihood, then who are we to ever described that gTLD as a failure. Who are we to tell that registrant that their whole life's work is on a "failed" domian space.

Brad

 

[Lox]

.HIPHOP is one of the worst extensions in existence.

A (2) word extension with very limited terms that fit.

No wonder he is making the argument that even one end user isn't a failure -

To them I say.....Who are you to judge the success or failure of the new gTLD Program? We shouldn't judge the success or failure of TLDs in terms of numbers of registrations or what the resale value of second level domains are within a TLD. For even if there is one registrant that depends on a domain name registered on a new gTLD domain name extension for their business or livelihood, then who are we to ever described that gTLD as a failure. Who are we to tell that registrant that their whole life's work is on a "failed" domian space.

Brad

I spend a significant amount of my free time reading everything ICANN and especially nGTLD related.

May 2011

The gTLD proposal is designed to dramatically expand the number of top-level domains available. This expansion will raise significant revenue for ICANN, possibly launch new businesses to manage the new gTLD’s, and create more options for registrars to sell domain names to consumers. The investment and economic potential from these new domains may be significant, but investment in economic potential should not necessarily be the focus of whether the gTLD proposal moves forward. We need to ask ourselves the tough questions.

How will this expansion affect trademark holders?

Will it create opportunities for fraud, increased consumer confusion, and IP theft?

Besides ICANN, who is asking for these new gTLD’s, consumers, registrars, or those looking to create businesses around these new top-level domains, is the gTLD proposal simply a solution that is in search of a problem that may or may not exist?


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[ThatNameGuy]

Sure, but I am also not the one spouting this self-serving nonsense like I am some agent of good helping humanity with domains, like the original post (below) -

New gTLDs were created, and are created, to give consumers a choice. The new gTLD Program is about removing the artificial barriers that exist in the creation of new TLDs while at the same time protecting consumers and preserving the safety and security of the Internet.

They were largely created to make money, not for some greater good. End of story.

Brad

Brad....so you do agree that greed is pervasive across all spectrum's of the domain industry Only a hypocrite would disagree with this statement from Verisign;

"But there is also an unregulated secondary market – led by domain speculators – hiding in plain sight. There, some speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at a far higher price. This secondary market is as old as the domain name system itself. However, since the wholesale price cap was imposed on .com in 2012, the secondary market has expanded in ways that exploit consumers."

 

[ThatNameGuy]

.HIPHOP is one of the worst extensions in existence.

A (2) word extension with very limited terms that fit.

No wonder he is making the argument that even one end user isn't a failure -

To them I say.....Who are you to judge the success or failure of the new gTLD Program? We shouldn't judge the success or failure of TLDs in terms of numbers of registrations or what the resale value of second level domains are within a TLD. For even if there is one registrant that depends on a domain name registered on a new gTLD domain name extension for their business or livelihood, then who are we to ever described that gTLD as a failure. Who are we to tell that registrant that their whole life's work is on a "failed" domian space.

Brad

Brad....you may wish to note that Jeff is also an entertainment lawyer and obviously knows a lot of Hip Hop artists. Hell Brad, i just read where Hip Hop is the most popular music venue in the US and UK and it's gaining in popularity around the world. Jay-Z grossed over 470M in 2001 alone

 

[bmugford]

Brad....you may wish to note that Jeff is also an entertainment lawyer and obviously knows a lot of Hip Hop artists. Hell Brad, i just read where Hip Hop is the most popular music venue in the US and UK and it's gaining in popularity around the world. Jay-Z grossed over 470M in 2001 alone

All that said, it is still a terrible domain extension.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Brad....so you do agree that greed is pervasive across all spectrum's of the domain industry Only a hypocrite would disagree with this statement from Verisign;

"But there is also an unregulated secondary market – led by domain speculators – hiding in plain sight. There, some speculators buy domain names at regulated low prices, then sell them at a far higher price. This secondary market is as old as the domain name system itself. However, since the wholesale price cap was imposed on .com in 2012, the secondary market has expanded in ways that exploit consumers."

The statement might carry more weight if it didn't come from a company that operates a de facto monopoly.

Verisign does not own the .COM/NET registries, they are only allowed to operate it under a sweetheart deal no-bid contract.

Yeah, it is not like Verisign's no-bid contract that allows them to raise rates by 10% a year, for no valid reason, exploits customers in any way.

So hey, if they want to compete in an open market for that contract. Great.
Otherwise, it doesn't really matter what they say.

Brad

 

[Daniel Owens]

.app was a disappointment thought it would do better.

 

[Steven McEvoy]

Jeff uses a .com domain.

This right here ends all debate. No matter if you like ngtlds or not .com will always be better.

It’s like me and .us

I love .us domains, however if I started up a company I would use a .us and fwd the .com to that .us so in the end .com as won.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

This right here ends all debate. No matter if you like ngtlds or not .com will always be better.

It’s like me and .us

I love .us domains, however if I started up a company I would use a .us and fwd the .com to that .us so in the end .com as won.

Steven....I have a similar view about .link and am looking to develop .com brokerage that will forward my .link name. I think it's been at least three years since we spoke, but I see you're now a local realtor. Still a firefighter? I just sent you a Linkedin invite so maybe we can connect....Later

 

[MadAboutDomains]

Premium renewal fees are killing the ngTLD market.
sex.xyz sold for just $2,150 because the renewal fee (10300$)
sex.com at the same time is for sale at xx million$

Ridiculous price. Especially when most people refer to that extension as xy-poopoo. Nobody's going to invest in an xy-poopoo that costs that much to renew for life changing sums.

 

[Mkt Sales Leads]

In fairness, when new extensions were created the operators expected much more.
They expected a paradigm shift, some said .COM is like "AM Radio" or ".COM is dead".

Almost a decade later none of that happened. It has not lived up to all the hype.

If anything .COM is stronger than ever, while .XYZ seems to be the only new gTLD with any real sales traction.

The "consumer choice" thing is a myth. If that was actually the case, the registries would not reserve the premium terms and charge premium prices and/or renewals for them.

It is about nothing more than making money.

There was never a demand for thousands of extensions. This was a solution looking for a problem.

Brad

Exactly. Especially if a small business was fortunate enough to register a good keyword .co / xyz name only to have it expire and see it has become 'registry premium'.

Where's the 'consumer choice' (or better still, end user choice) in that?

 

[Grego85]

You CAN make decent money selling new GTLDs if you focus on the right niches. I've been collecting nGTLD names for many years now, and only sold 1 or 2 per year until I started focusing on web3/blockchain related niches. Most next gen disruptive technology spaces are open to buying nGTLD names.

 

[Mkt Sales Leads]

You CAN make decent money selling new GTLDs if you focus on the right niches. I've been collecting nGTLD names for many years now, and only sold 1 or 2 per year until I started focusing on web3/blockchain related niches. Most next gen disruptive technology spaces are open to buying nGTLD names.

The history of domain sales show tech companies are as interested in single dictionary words as any other business sector - except all those desired words are mostly taken in many extensions. Unless you have thousands to spend on a top name, you won’t find these available for reg in a ngtld.

That leaves brandables and .com is the only viable extension that a tech business would consider acquiring a name in.

 

[ThatNameGuy]

You CAN make decent money selling new GTLDs if you focus on the right niches. I've been collecting nGTLD names for many years now, and only sold 1 or 2 per year until I started focusing on web3/blockchain related niches. Most next gen disruptive technology spaces are open to buying nGTLD names.

Greg.....i happen to believe you CAN make A LOT of money "if" you focus on the right niches. Earlier in this thread i said, "If it's to be, it's up to me"

Attempting to reach out to you via Sweet.domains I ran into Dreamhost As a result I ran into Michael Rodriquez and Christopher Ghazarian and I'll attempt to reach out to them via Linkedin.

I get your attraction to .xyz and your focus on web3/blockchain-related niches, but if you're interested in what I'm up to with names like American.link and Bicycle.link......we should talk. Thanks

 

[Grego85]

Greg.....i happen to believe you CAN make A LOT of money "if" you focus on the right niches. Earlier in this thread i said, "If it's to be, it's up to me"

Attempting to reach out to you via Sweet.domains I ran into Dreamhost As a result I ran into Michael Rodriquez and Christopher Ghazarian and I'll attempt to reach out to them via Linkedin.

I get your attraction to .xyz and your focus on web3/blockchain-related niches, but if you're interested in what I'm up to with names like American.link and Bicycle.link......we should talk. Thanks

Ummm... ok, well I was going more off my own actual experience in making money on domains.

Sorry you couldn't offer your .link names to me so easily via email, but as I said in my last post, your ngtld names should be related to crypto/web3 if you want any chance of selling regularly. Sorry for the other dudes who you shifted too after :/

I have Asset.Link and Venture.Link and have not been able to find much interest. I view the tld as overpriced and ohhhhh.. now I see you think the tld is worth more than .xyz? Lol, holy cow man, thanks for the laugh :D

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Ummm... ok, well I was going more off my own actual experience in making money on domains.

Sorry you couldn't offer your .link names to me so easily via email, but as I said in my last post, your ngtld names should be related to crypto/web3 if you want any chance of selling regularly. Sorry for the other dudes who you shifted too after :/

I have Asset.Link and Venture.Link and have not been able to find much interest. I view the tld as overpriced and ohhhhh.. now I see you think the tld is worth more than .xyz? Lol, holy cow man, thanks for the laugh :D

Quite a misread here (on your part).....i never said i wouldn't offer/show my .link names to you via email? Neither did i say the .link tld is worth more than the .xyz tld.......please quote me

That said however i see .xyz fading into the sunset..... few significant sales since last year according to Namebio.
Just 3 reported sales by Swetha in the last 60 days and hundreds of questionable sales less than $200 by SAV and Dynadot.....can you say CHURN

The domain industry is every bit as screwed up as the crypto industry, but therein lies OPPORTUNITY

 

[ThatNameGuy]

The history of domain sales show tech companies are as interested in single dictionary words as any other business sector - except all those desired words are mostly taken in many extensions. Unless you have thousands to spend on a top name, you won’t find these available for reg in a ngtld.

That leaves brandables and .com is the only viable extension that a tech business would consider acquiring a name in.

i don't know what percentage of new companies are tech startups but I do know there are just as many traditional companies in need of good single word domains. With most "brandables and .com" already taken, this only leaves ngtld's.

 

[Mkt Sales Leads]

i don't know what percentage of new companies are tech startups but I do know there are just as many traditional companies in need of good single word domains. With most "brandables and .com" already taken, this only leaves ngtld's.

And the best type of words for ngtlds are single dictionary words, which happen to be mostly taken. So if a tech business wants Plumtree dot xyz / digital / Pro etc, they'll find it's either in use by another business, or taken by another business but not in use, or for sale by a domainer who got in early.

 

[JB Lions]

And the best type of words for ngtlds are single dictionary words, which happen to be mostly taken. So if a tech business wants Plumtree dot xyz / digital / Pro etc, they'll find it's either in use by another business, or taken by another business but not in use, or for sale by a domainer who got in early.

Yep, it's a problem I was pointing out when these came out. One of the selling points of those selling new gtlds were all the good .coms were taken, so new businesses can just get good new gtlds. Well, nope. Because domainers snapped up all the good ones or registries held the good ones at high prices and some had crazy renewals, not normal $10 or so renewals for .coms.

"You run into the same problems as .com, the obvious ones are already taken by domainers. It's probably even worse with new gtlds, since the registries take them first, even @mad409 has agreed with that in the past. And they're not selling for cheap, most would probably start off at 4 figures as well. Maybe one of the reasons with the startups we take a look at here at Namepros, it's only around 2% of startups choosing new gtlds. You just can't go and hand reg an obvious one."

https://www.namepros.com/threads/th...ld-the-franchise-effect.1030884/#post-6264353

 

[Mkt Sales Leads]

Yep, it's a problem I was pointing out when these came out. One of the selling points of those selling new gtlds were all the good .coms were taken, so new businesses can just get good new gtlds. Well, nope. Because domainers snapped up all the good ones or registries held the good ones at high prices and some had crazy renewals, not normal $10 or so renewals for .coms.

"You run into the same problems as .com, the obvious ones are already taken by domainers. It's probably even worse with new gtlds, since the registries take them first, even @mad409 has agreed with that in the past. And they're not selling for cheap, most would probably start off at 4 figures as well. Maybe one of the reasons with the startups we take a look at here at Namepros, it's only around 2% of startups choosing new gtlds. You just can't go and hand reg an obvious one."

https://www.namepros.com/threads/th...ld-the-franchise-effect.1030884/#post-6264353

Just seen one of your posts in the link and it sums up the myth of ngtld availability and benevolence of registrars and registries:

Making my point. Part of the new gtld marketing is acting like good names are just there for end users to register, when domainers, and in the case of new gtlds, registries own them.