Where Do I Stand

[Peter]

With a certain hosting company I had 2 contracts (under 1 account number)

Back in feb I was issued with an invoice for more than I should have been (I had recently downgraded contract 2 contracts are billed seperately).

I contacted them and told them and within a week I received another invoice for a negative amount I was to pay the difference.

Fair enough I was late in paying it (late april, The f1st package was fully paid until June) I received a letter on the 9th of May (dated 7th) saying they were cancelling the hosting and that I had 30 days to get the contents of the packages and databases (would have to be thru tech support as I had no access) they had as well shut off the websites.

On the 10th I phoned tech support and requested the contents of the database of the package that was paid until June (this 1 was also shut off even tho still had a month to run) I received an email with a partial mysql dump (you could see it was partial it was only 4KB and ended halfway thru an insert statement)

I immediately emailed them back and asked for the complete dump which was ignored. then contacted them using the contact form on the control panel which I never received a response.

I have since phoned them roughly 5 times continuously asking for the mysql dump they kept saying they would send it. Eventually on friday they said the system was down and they would send it when back up, again I heard nothing so today I phoned again and now told that it has been deleted (please note 30 days is not up yet)

After being passed about I was told I should have arranged it within 2 weeks (even tho I did) and that not even their backups went that far back.

I have now had a chance to check my bank statement and they received the cheque for payment the same day they cancelled the packages. They say that I have no right for that money to be refunded.

The site in question was alive for 3 years so it is a 3 year database I have lost (had about 70,000 visits a month, not a huge amount but it was for a cult film)

The company in question is one and one.

With this where do I stand

 

[domdom]

telephone and ask to speak to the manager or head supervisor
also ask your bank about charge back, or getting your money back.

another thing to do is, if you manage to speak to a higher level person is explain the importance of public relations,
they probably spend a lot on marketing, but if you tell them you will complain on all the hosting, /website / domain boards, that is a large % of their potential customers.

It might not work but you will have the small satisfaction of losing them customers. If i read a bad report about a company, then i would no use them, especially since there are so many hosting companies to choose from.

Do you have any records of the information/database ?
You should be speaking to some trading standards, internet standards organisation if your in the uk etc. and threatening legal action ( even you haev no intention of doing it, might scare them)

you do know in the uk there is a small claims court for actions under 750 pounds - $1.5k . you dont need a lawyer, and no cost to you. It is for cases such as yours. A local officer, will mediate untill you reach an agreement

 

[Peter]

They always refuse to pass me onto a manager, the person in billing I talked to claimed they were the highest level.

Unfortunately the only database backup I have is very old (I know bad practice) so isn't really much use.

Regarding the small claims court (I do live in the UK) how could I quantify the value of the database, Also they claim they have the right to keep the funds as the length of time I took to pay (they never bothered sending a reminder) That balance was only £19.96 (the original wrong invoice was over £119)

If I do have a case I will be taking this matter further. I have a site I have worked on for 2-3 years only to have it ruined by them.

they justification for the loss of the information was that they have over 4 million domains hosted and that it runs automatically but as I pointed out to them they are liable for their automation and should be no concern of mine.

 

[domdom]

I think automated system is just an excuse .
As you said they ignored emails and 5 phone calls.

It seems the support/technical staff did this because you were late payig etc and complained to many times kind of a 'stuff you'

It would not be difficult to proceed further , even if you think you dont have a case. the small claims court is for normal people without lawyers.

It will give you a chance to speak your mind, with a representative from 1and1, and also the officer will help you reach a compromise.

you should inform them that you will also go to the local media /newspapers. small papers like any gossip negative publicity for companies out to scam members of their community. and it gives them something interesting to write about.

Make sure you explain this to 1and1 also, and they might settle.


I dont know what you can calculate the damages at.
3 years work is a long time and your traffic was decent.

You can emphasise the time lost, (3 years) and possibly malicious deleteing of your info, althugh you contacted many times and had not reached the 30 day cut off point.
also al the information you had gathered is lost.

probably can ask for 500 - to the max of 750 pounds or whatever. (do you need to employ someone to make a new script for you, take time off work to start your website again 3 years lost work, have any lost leads/deals with traffic ad banners etc. Of course you can use this type of scenario real or not to get your point accross)

Call them again, and give first thing would be to polietely ask who you are speaking to as a reference,. they wont know who you are. then, explain you want to speak to a manager as you are about to initiate legal proceedings. you have the service reps name. so , if it goes further and any negative cosequences to the company would be their responsibility. explain that to them and I imagine they will quickly get their manager.


Do you have all the emails from them, and the ones you sent ? print them out, noting the dates etc. you will need this as evidence.

at the small claims court, you will just need to show evidence that you acted reasonably in contacting them and trying to resolve this issue. the problems/loss therfore resulted through their malicious/negligence.

 

[RJ]

It does sound like you have a reasonable case against them for a lawsuit. You will have to put a reasonable price on the damages that they have caused.

In the US we have the bbb.org to report shady companies to. Is there a similar organization for the UK?

 

[Peter]

I dont know of anything like BBB.org for the Uk but in the Uk I suppose the office of fair trading or an organisation such as that would be who are in charge of that type of thing but I should imagine they wont act until there are enough complaints.

Regarding the price on damages I absolutely have no idea how I would calculate it. I did not make any real financial gaines from the site but I did have a regular user base.

 

[Blackpanther]

I am unsure on what the exact problem is..

You where late in paying, they canceled your account ?

If they owe you money fair enough your entitled to what your owed, seek legal advice on getting what your owed.

But other than that i dont see the problem, you are responsible for the content of your site, read the TOS ever hosting provider is the same, they will not take responsibility for any loss of content... Its all in there.

DomDom wrote:

another thing to do is, if you manage to speak to a higher level person is explain the importance of public relations,
they probably spend a lot on marketing, but if you tell them you will complain on all the hosting, /website / domain boards, that is a large % of their potential customers.
QUOTE]

I would not recommend this, criticism is protected by free speech and free expression but just like free speech it has a limit if you said that to a hosting provider it would be considered blackmail..
If you go spamming every hosting/website/domain board with your complait and its found to be delibrate attempt you could be seen as trying to damage the company.. dont have the correct term for what thats called but i dont recommend it.

If you have problems getting any money can contact the consumer protections or watchdog they can give you advice.. Also consult a lawer but as far as the content i think you will find the are protected under thier TOS as every other provider is unless you can prove they broke thier agreement that is??!??

Let us know how you get on..

-=BP=-

 

[Peter]

Blackpanther the problem was I couldnt get the contents of the site as when they cancelled the account I had no access whatsoever so the only way was to get it from tech support but they continuously ignored mails requests over the phone etc.

Also the contract that the information is lost from still had a small amount of hosting paid for (there was 2 contracts but under the same customer number)

Also under their own admission I should have been able to get the contents from them. In fact the last guy I spoke to (actully about the only helpful guy I spoke to) told me I SHOULD make a complaint


another thing that has occured to me as well, when this all started I asked how to transfer the .co.uk domains (it is a different process than the .net and .com) and they told me to email an address with the domains I wanted changed along with the IPS tags. These mails were bounced as the email address does not exist

 

[Blackpanther]

Originally posted by filth
Blackpanther the problem was I couldnt get the contents of the site as when they cancelled the account I had no access whatsoever so the only way was to get it from tech support but they continuously ignored mails requests over the phone etc.

Also the contract that the information is lost from still had a small amount of hosting paid for (there was 2 contracts but under the same customer number)

Also under their own admission I should have been able to get the contents from them. In fact the last guy I spoke to (actully about the only helpful guy I spoke to) told me I SHOULD make a complaint

Either way i think you will find thier TOS will say they are not liable for any loss of content.. even if they have offer to send you a dump.. they are still not liable for it..

they have the right to cancel anytime but as far as i know there is no min contract with one and one so you would then be entitled to the one months (or whatever it is) worth of hosting or fees returned for loss of one month(or whatever it is) since you already payed it...

So contact the consumer protections or watchdog for advice..

Edit..

Also alot of companys today wont transfer your call to the manager/super visor under certain conditions cause everyone wants to speak to the supervisor or manager!

But what you can do is request info on how to lodge a complaint you can also request the name of the department (billing, tech support) and the name of the supervisor so that you can address a letter to them..

-=BP=-

 

[domdom]

best way is still through the small claims court.

trading standards wont do anything as they would see this as an established firm and a one off incident. they go after more obvious fraud, illegal activities.

as i mentioned earlier, this special court is not set up for the use of lawyers. it is informal, and the maximum damages is under $1,500.

If i was you i would get on it right away. there is a waiting list, before your case will be heard