question When a domain has a $0 Estibot value...

[Vivi]

... does that necessarily mean it has no resale value (beyond reg fee)?

I've started reading on the forum and know that a domain is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. I realize also that a high Estibot value isn't necessarily an indicator that the domain name is actually worth that price. Keywords, traffic, etc all factor into it, but at the end of the day the Estibot value is just one indicator of price, and not always an accurate one.

But in the converse situation, a domain with a $0 Estibot value, does that necessarily mean it has no resale value beyond reg fee? I'm asking because I have a 2 word phrase .com domain from a blog I started which is minimally-developed and has an Estibot value of $0. I'd like to auction off the domain, but am I correct in assuming that no-one would want it with a current Estibot value of $0? Or does the phrase itself matter? Any insights?

 

[Nerevar]

One thing that helps manual estimation (although does not define it) - is to see how similar keywords have sold in the past. There are sereval websites where you can do it, for example:
http://dnpric.es/
http://www.dnsaleprice.com/
http://namebio.com/

Remember that .net is seen as about 10 times (or more) less valuable than .com

For shorter names:
http://www.llllsales.com/
http://www.3character.com/price-guide.html

But ultimately, you have to learn to think like endusers (startups and corporations, high-paid self employed professionals, serious web developers) because the lucrative market with $x,xxx sales is there. For this, read the recent sales thread of this forum. Then the only "manual" estimation you need is the feeling that the name has a use to many end users who have good business budgets.

 

[80-20]

One day, estibot will disappear completely from the domainer's armor - remembered as a statistical tool with projecting false reality.
It's departure however is seriously slowed down by the "establishment" keen to receive a few silver coins for promoting it.
Newbies beware!

 

[Kate]

can you provide examples for manual estimation and methods? thanks.

No, it is more art than science. It's not something you learn overnight.
There are many parameters to be considered, and then there is gut feeling. But the name has to make sense, preferably it should be commercially viable because domain names are usually bought for business use.
The best you can do is hang around here, read everything that you can but you also need to sort the wheat from the shaft. Also, analyze reported sales, what sells and why.

Don't look for shortcuts, take the time to read and learn, domaining is much more difficult than it sounds, and it's very competitive too.

 

[Nerevar]

Estibot valuation means nothing.
However, it is not very easy to register a domain that has resale value above regfee, if you are new in this.

 

[AndyM]

I reg'd a domain the other day.... estibot says $4,300. The pros here say, max $50. Go figure. I also have a domain which estibot says $40, A pro from here says to the right end user $5k plus!!

 

[Kate]

Do yourself a favor, don't use automated tools for appraising domain names. Otherwise you'll never learn what makes a name valuable. Yes, it's true only the newbies pay attention to "guesstibot" (plus Berkens routinely quoting estibot values, never understood why).
People who rely on estibot for their purchases are not being more successful at selling domains, in fact pretty much any domain will be appraised at regfee minimum. So it's like you have nothing to lose and you can't go wrong with such generous valuations. Wrong !

 

[NPer]

 

[Nerevar]

Estibot strongly influencing the perceived value in the field.

Only among newbie domainers during they first weeks in the industry End users are not aware of Estibot. And 99.9% of domainers stop paying attention to it after the first weeks. At best, they use it as a tool to spam end users (this is a paid feature).

 

[DomainVP]

Two mistakes every beginner makes:
#1 Trusting automated appraisals like Estibot
#2 Getting excited when a buyer with a 'big budget' needs an appraisal (appraisal scam)

 

[Templr]

I've done some research on Estibot and sold names for $500 - $1500+ on 0 value, so I personally know its a gimmick.

But it's catching the beginners from signing up to the needless tools aswell as the fake estimate tool.

And we know where the service is promoted.

 

[WPM]

can you provide examples for manual estimation and methods? thanks.

Greetings,

EstiBot = EstiNot

One of the most basic ways is to explore the possibilities of value is based on Ggle's Search count tools (Adwords' Keyword Tool).

Type in a word or phrase, look at the searches per month, the suggested bids etc.. With an understanding of math and percentages you can determine approximately what a "perfect" name may bring in in monthly revenue. "Perfect" meaning one word, top of the search results etc..

Simplest terms: If you used Ggl's Adsense ads on your site, and advertisers were paying $1 per click to Ggl for their services and 1000 people a month steadily clicked those ads, the site would "generate" $1000.00 monthly in advertising. Granted you would only get a small percentage because you get a cut from Ggl.

But in the basic big picture the site generates $12k per year steadily. You can calculate a rough sales price based on a 1-10 yr basis and the strength and longevity of the site's topic. Trend based niche sites, unless they are an "expanding" and ever evolving niche, don't carry that much weight for long term investors. But to an "end user" would fair better.

Bottom line, a name is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

WPM

 

[MrConor]

Relying on EstiBot only for names of a High Value is a complete gamble..

I have had several domains that were EstiBot Valued at $700+ and these did not even sell.

One example GrummanAircraft.com valued @ $900 and still has not sold.

If your new here your best bet is being creative and thinking up 2/3 word Brandable names, also find a popular niche before creating the name, if there is much interest in the niche area your brandanble domain fits in, even if EstiBot values the domain at 0 it could still be worth a lot more to someone creating a site in that niche.

In my case their obviously was not a big demand for people setting up an info or sales site about Grumman Aircraft

You learn from your mistakes, and that allows you too improve next time around, so don't let the EstiBot get you down!

 

[Vivi]

Thanks, Nerevar. Concise, helpful, answered the question to the point.

I really appreciate this... I'm definitely a beginner. I will probably then work on developing it more before auctioning it off. I realize I may never get my time back in terms of $ at sale, but maybe I can make a little income off of the domain in the meantime and have fun developing it. As opposed to just letting it expire or selling it for $1. Thanks again for answering my question.

 

[frank-germany]

I have registered quite a few domains where the estibot is like -lets make up a number-
$500 and after I caught them ( dropping domains ) estibot 2 weeks later gives me a value of $1500

( price just an example )

this happens quite often to my domains

so what do you think the evaluation is worth?

 

[korganian]

Estibot is dangerous. I lost a lot of money from using it's valuations when I was a noobie domainer. What I found out was that the owner of Estibot touted high accuracy rates of evaluation from his software by saying that if some domains were valued at 10% of what they later sold for and other domains were valued at ten times what they later sold for, then the result showed Estibot to be vary accurate. He was able to take his very inaccurate valuations and by using large bulk comparisons, make bad valuations cancel each other out in the group comparison.

 

[Templr]

Should Estibot be the next 'newbie' idol to be checked? YES. Please don’t rely on bots with instant valuation. It's a sucker machine and I am ashamed of any professional endorsing such a product.

 

[80-20]

This whole thread should be titled: estibot OR not!

It's very telling that none of its promoters - established domainers flogging it on their blogs, interviews, etc. has came out yet and spelled out their opinion...

 

[AndyM]

I just ran a check on some number domains: 8883.com $920 and 88833.com $15. If you could a 5N .com for $15 then investors wouldn't be paying $120+ for a 6N .com. More proof that estibot should not be taken for it's word.

 

[Paul123]

Gonna add this to the thread.

Domain value = Price vendor will sell for + Price buyer will pay + Agreement on price + Money in bank & domain 'pushed' = Domain value

Best,
Paul

 

[Aten]

I learned that pretty much all estimations are worthless. Johnny Boy Roy could pay $900 for your domain and Suzy McGoosy could have no interest in buying the domain whatsoever. An automated algorithm virtually has no control over individual buyer discretion.

 

[WPM]

Bottom line, a name is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

I've started reading on the forum and know that a domain is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it.

Its a crap line i always heard on the domaining forums.

how a seller know how much a buyer will pay for this without putting in the auction? And to put in the auction he has to purchase it so whats the point of this line ??

A very simple answer... the moment you say "SOLD". That's when you know how much someone will pay or it's value at that moment. Auction or not. Whether you get paid... is another story.

I have read quite a few threads saying "buyer didn't pay", "escrow didn't close" etc, etc..

The true resale is not "auctions". It's RESEARCH. The category of the name, the companies that service that category, their income, profits etc.. and sell it to them or make sure they know it's on that auction and why they want and need it.

Set your price (private sale) roughly 20% over your internal (the voice that speaks in your head) BIN number to give them a chance to "feel good" because they knocked off a couple bucks negotiating.

You don't have to sell, unless it's a crap name that's weighing you down with reg fees for years without development or income. And by then... drop time.

I would like to know how many "end users" (not resellers who know the end users because they did the research) truly buy on any of the auction platforms... not many I bet, which is why they have "brokers". Of course you get a little broker when you use a broker... but industry knowledge is key.

Hope that made my thought process clear when I made my previous statements.

Regards,

WPM

 

[frank-germany]

can you provide examples for manual estimation and methods? thanks.

manual estimation are worthless too

 

[aramyus]

I have never tested, but I'd be surprised that a sellable domain has no estibot value.

You can see for yourself by checking the estibot value of sold domains reported at namebio.com: I tested a couple, and all had an estibot value.

From what I know, estibot is an automated estimate based on
- the length of the domain and it's pronounceability
- the extension (.com, .net...)
- recognition of the keywords or may be patterns within the domain
- the value of keywords based on G adwords (or similar)
- probably the number of advertisers reported on tools like spyfu or similar
- the age of the domain and may be the number of drops
- may be they also check for trademarks

These are some of the factors that domainers are systematically watching for. So I have a hard time to think of a good domain name without an estibot value.

Now of course, estibot value is notoriously inaccurate, but a zero-value might be a quick indicator to reject a domain (for example when you inspect a list of dropped keyword domains)

 

[Nerevar]

I have never tested, but I'd be surprised that a sellable domain has no estibot value.

Brandables, especially non-keyword.