What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

[MapleDots]

I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

 

[DN Playbook]

This particular video references TR.news, which is registered at Epik. We'll keep them online, not because they are promoting hate, but because they are enabling dialog and because they are forcing accountability in a climate where propaganda wishes to prevent dialog.

@Rob Monster

Why do you use this kind of content to promote your @Epik.com services? This is going to destroy your brand.

 

[Rob Monster]

That graphic was putting Christianity in a good light, Islam in a bad. And rabbit hole? Slanted himself got into it, same stuff I pointed out. You literally had people having to choose becoming Christian or getting their head chopped off. So yes, another way Christianity was spread was by violence and threat of death.

Sorry, no that was most definitely not how Christianity spread, at least for the first 300 years after Christ. You refer to the Dark Ages after Constantine paganized Christianity and declared Rome to be its center.

The Roman Catholics were Bible-burners. Private ownership of the Bible was forbidden. The Bible was in Latin, interpreted by priests.

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, anyone could read it.

And in modern times, we have free digital copies of the Bible, effectively fulfilling Daniel 12:4:

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

If you think we cannot go back to Fahrenheit 451 style book-burning, I think you are mistaken. The censors are essentially book-burners. And that should trouble any liberty-minded person greatly.

 

[NameLlama]

Or the tweet to that 8chan image, about Jews controlling everything that was deleted after I pointed it out? What you've posted here many times, doesn't match the other stuff you've reposted/tweeted.

Apparently gets this kind of shit from....surprise! Gab!

Green=Goy(non-Jew) Blue=Nonwhite Red=Jewish

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster

Why do you use this kind of content to promote your @Epik.com services? This is going to destroy your brand.

Simply because I am not hiding it. ANTIFA can have domains at Epik too. The DNC has domains

Apparently gets this kind of sh*t from....surprise! Gab!

Show attachment 113671

Show attachment 113672
Green=Goy(non-Jew) Blue=Nonwhite Red=Jewish

I did not use those terms, nor did I imply anything about any group. You are clearly propagating divisiveness here, not me. I am not sure why, but I will call you out for it right here.

My point was about decentralization of media as an antidote against winner-take-all journalism being used as a vehicle for controlling the narrative.

 

[DN Playbook]

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, could read it.

I am pretty well familiar with the history of Christianity, before and after the death of the apostles. Here is something for you to meditate on:

Even though the Protestant movement started with a good motive, as a "protest" against the iron rule of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Catholic church), it still maintains many of the same "pagan" beliefs. Among other things. Even though the Bible is available to the majority of the planet, people are discouraged from reading it. Mostly because of religion and politics. Which includes extremist ideals.

So what is your point?

 

[Rob Monster]

The Protestant movement was essentially departure of Bible-believing Christians from the Catholic Church, and the end of the Dark Ages. In effect, could read it.

I am pretty well familiar with the history of Christianity, before and after the death of the apostles. Here is something for you to meditate on:

Even though the Protestant movement started with a good motive, as a "protest" against the iron rule of the Holy Roman Empire (i.e. Catholic church), it still maintains many of the same "pagan" beliefs. Among other things. Even though the Bible is available to the majority of the planet, people are discouraged from reading it. Mostly because of religion and politics. Which includes extremist ideals.

So what is your point?

That's great that you are studied in these matters.

For what it's worth, I identify only as a Bible-believing Christian, and have no denominational alignment, in part because I concluded that much of the business of religion is simply a reheating of the pagan tradition which accomplishes remarkably little other than collecting tithes and offerings.

Contrary to the teachings of many friendly neighborhood 501c3-filing places of worship, the church is not a building. The Pope is a fallible man, as are we all, albeit one with access to vast resources that could be deployed for a lot more good.

 

[DN Playbook]

For what it's worth, I identify only as a Bible-believing Christian, and have no denominational alignment, in part because I concluded that much of the business of religion is simply a reheating of the pagan tradition which accomplishes remarkably little other than collecting tithes and offerings.

Contrary to the teachings of many friendly neighborhood 501c3-filing places of worship, the church is not a building. The Pope is a fallible man, as are we all, albeit one with access to vast resources that could be deployed for a lot more good.

I agree with you. The word 'church' does not refer to a structure but rather to people. The pope did not descend from the apostle Peter either. And religion, for the most part, is part of the political system of which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

What I am wondering is how you can reconcile your beliefs in a God who is love with posting extremist propaganda. I don't think that is helping anyone.

 

[Rob Monster]

I agree with you. The word 'church' does not refer to a structure but rather to people. The pope did not descend from the apostle Peter either. And religion, for the most part, is part of the political system of which Jesus said his followers are no part of.

What I am wondering is how you can reconcile your beliefs in a God who is love with posting extremist propaganda. I don't think that is helping anyone.

I don't intentionally support extremists. I support free speech. I believe in personal accountability and discernment. I consider the search for truth to be among the most noble and important things we can do.

To the extent that I have encountered extremists, on the right and left, I have tried to engage them with love and logic. I have a day job running Epik so that outreach and related intercession is a side gig, if you will.

 

[DN Playbook]

I don't intentionally support extremists. I support free speech. I believe in personal accountability and discernment. I consider the search for truth to be among the most noble and important things we can do.

To the extent that I have encountered extremists, on the right and left, I have tried to engage them with love and logic. I have a day job running Epik so that outreach and related intercession is a side gig, if you will.

Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

 

[Rob Monster]

Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

And that is why you don't want to push people to the dark web. You want it all out in the open where you can see what people say. I am not active in any private forums, for example. Lots of folks use private forums on Riseup or Discord. I steer clear of those. When it comes to containing and defusing extremism, we should be a lot more concerned about what happens in private forums.

I have zero doubt that the technology for decentralized and encrypted communication will outrun just about any censorship strategy, unless you want to subject humanity to total blackouts as is happening in Venezuela this week or turn off the Internet completely as happened in Congo recently. The Chinese firewall scenario combined with Social Credit Scoring system is also something humanity should refuse.

 

[DN Playbook]

And that is why you don't want to push people to the dark web. You want it all out in the open where you can see what people say. I am not active in any private forums, for example. Lots of folks use private forums on Riseup or Discord. I steer clear of those. When it comes to containing and defusing extremism, we should be a lot more concerned about what happens in private forums.

@Rob Monster

That is probably the most noble thing about you.

The truth is that everything is out in the open around us. The truth is all around us. We can see and hear what the politicians are doing and saying, the same goes for religious leaders and leaders in business, etc.

The problem is when we allow the media to narrate the reality. To spin it their way. When we hand off our thinking ability to others and let them decide what to think.

This includes mainstream media and especially extremist media.

Also we need to be clear as to what our morals and priorities are. Do we care about the 50 innocent lives that were taken and their families? Or do we care more about the video and whether it is real? Both may be important. But which is the priority now. And is someone spelling out in big letters what we should think or believe or question.

 

[Tia Wood]

Unrelated to Epik/Rob:

I don’t know if I trust the “truth” by popularity contest via humans who muddy the truth with a long version of the telephone game.

Nor, as of lately, am I too trusting of the media due to fear based politics.

There has to be credible sources for truth, in my opinion, otherwise what is to stop the “truth” from being just a confirmation of ones biases?

I am all for free speech but “truth”, to me, is a whole ‘nother story.

People should be highly skeptical of such things and careful of confirmation bias.

 

[DN Playbook]

Unrelated to Epik/Rob:

I don’t know if I trust the “truth” by popularity contest via humans who muddy the truth with a long version of the telephone game.

Nor, as of lately, am I too trusting of the media due to fear based politics.

There has to be credible sources for truth, in my opinion, otherwise what is to stop the “truth” from being just a confirmation of ones biases?

I am all for free speech but “truth”, to me, is a whole ‘nother story.

People should be highly skeptical of such things and careful of confirmation bias.

@Tia Wood

I can see your point. "Truth" can mean different things to different people.

When I think of "truth", I mean it is the obvious conclusion when you consider the facts. Like, the sky is blue, grass is green, water is wet, etc.

So perhaps for clarity, we should substitute the word "truth" for "facts".

 

[Bernard Wright]

I have been thinking of posting this for a couple of days and I think I have found my window. I have a series of lectures on the Introduction to Logic. This is an excerpt from that series.

It does not tell you what to think. It is an educational lecture by Leonard Peikoff from many years back. It has helped me to sharpen the blade, so to speak. It might help you as well, to dissect the narrative a bit.

There is plenty more where this came from, but here is a taste. It's good dog-walking fodder. I hope it proves to be of interest to someone in this thread. For those who are familiar with this territory, the lecture describes the logical fallacies of:

• ad verecundiam
• ad baculum
• ad hominem
• ad populum

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3pjwgjjtza023dg/Intro To Logic (Lecture 2_pt1.mp3?dl=0

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Do you agree that "free speech" does not always equal "search for truth"? Quite often it doesn't, in fact.

Good point. Two entirely different things that rarely go hand in hand.

The issue many people have, I believe, is that we see the push for "free speech" that it includes extremist views and no accountability or discernment. Just their narrative pushed upon us.

I'm with Rob on this one. It's been pretty well established that penalizing abortion in Poland simply pushed it underground or (for the better situated) abroad. There is really no way to know if there has been any drop in the number of abortions, or perhaps increase thereof, because there are no reliable statistics (never mind the official ones, which have nothing to do with reality). My point is the same as Rob's: sweeping garbage under the carpet does not a clean house make. On the contrary, things are more likely as not to grow and ferment there, out of sight, with no one in the mainstream the wiser. Until the rot eats through the carpet and... somebody gets himself an automatic rifle and vents his quietly accumulated frustrations on innocent people in a mosque. Or a catholic church. Or a public school.

Extremist narrative is not the problem. We've got bigger problems. Unwelcome and dangerous narratives are pushed upon us by various governments every day, or haven't you noticed? One good example in the US is the narrative about "dirty, criminal, rapist latinos invading good, clean America" and how America will not survive this unless there is the wall. In Poland, the PIS goverment is hard at work winning hearts and minds (read: votes!) with classic scare tactic narrative about "dirty, criminal, terrorist migrants, most of them bringing with them dangerous diseases" and how they are the only ones in the 1,000+ year history of Poland who are ready, willing and able to stop this "invasion". Rob has already mentioned the "Social Credit Score" system in China, but not living in China, he wasn't subject to the accompanying propaganda campaign, narrative about how successful and good for the People this system is and... how it will be expanded. Do you think this is bad, but nothing to do with you? Just wait till a future US government takes a page from China's Playbook. And in the meantime, worry (or applaud!) the narratives being pushed by more than one candidate running for President about the need for major wealth redistribution, how else, by taxing the hell out of the rich, so as to allow, who else, the government to more fairly distribute the wealth amongst the People...

I'm just picking and choosing. There are many other such dangerous ideas and narratives pushed upon us every single day. I'm really more concerned about these narratives, government sanctioned, or likely to be sanctioned and implemented in the near future. My point is: compared to this, marginalized right wing, or left wing extremists, foaming at their mouths are of no concern whatsoever. By all means, allow them to vent; let them push their narratives upon us; give the "Five Eyes" a better chance to invigilate them and forestall tragic incidents like the one in Christchurch. Instead of scrambling to save their collective asses by, what else, a new narrative... guns are very bad! We are pushing for new legislation to further curtail peoples' freedoms, but for the good of the People... we're banning all rifles in the country, legislation to be introduced within 4 weeks! Wow, ain't that somethin'?

 

[oldtimer]

@oldtimer - I think those are all sage words.

Thank you for the compliment,

I admire your strong belief in your faith and I know that you have people of different race, religion, and gender working at your company that you get along with fine at a professional level, I like to know if I were a black pastor would I be welcomed in your home not for business, but for doing worship and bible study.

 

[DN Playbook]

Good point. Two entirely different things that rarely go hand in hand.

I'm with Rob on this one. It's been pretty well established that penalizing abortion in Poland simply pushed it underground or (for the better situated) abroad. There is really no way to know if there has been any drop in the number of abortions, or perhaps increase thereof, because there are no reliable statistics (never mind the official ones, which have nothing to do with reality). My point is the same as Rob's: sweeping garbage under the carpet does not a clean house make. On the contrary, things are more likely as not to grow and ferment there, out of sight, with no one in the mainstream the wiser. Until the rot eats through the carpet and... somebody gets himself an automatic rifle and vents his quietly accumulated frustrations on innocent people in a mosque. Or a catholic church. Or a public school.

Narrative is not the problem. Unwelcome and dangerous narratives are pushed upon us by various governments every day, or haven't you noticed? One good example in the US is the narrative about "dirty, criminal, rapist latinos invading good, clean America" and how America will not survive this unless there is the wall. In Poland, the PIS goverment is hard at work winning hearts and minds (read: votes!) with classic scare tactic narrative about "dirty, criminal, terrorist migrants, most of them bringing with them dangerous diseases" and how they are the only ones in the 1,000+ year history of Poland who are ready, willing and able to stop this "invation". Rob has already mentioned the "Social Credit Score" system in China, but not living in China, he wasn't subject to the accompanying propaganda campaign, narrative about how successful and good for the People this system is and how it will be expanded. Back to the US: how about the narratives being pushed by more than one candidate running for President about the need for major wealth redistribution, how else, by taxing the hell out of the rich, so as to allow, who else, the government to more fairly distribute the wealth amongst the People...

I'm just picking and choosing. There are many other such dangerous ideas and narratives pushed upon us every single day. I'm really concerned about these, government sanctioned or likely to be sanctioned and implemented in the near future, narratives. Compared to this, marginalized right wing, or left wing extremists, foaming at their mouths are of no concern whatsoever. By all means, allow them to vent, to try and push their narratives upon us, giving the "Five Eyes" a better chance to invigilate them and forestall tragic incidents like the one in Christchurch. Instead of scrambling to save their collective incompetent asses by pushing for new legislation to further curtail peoples' freedoms

Why are you talking about Poland so much?

 

[frank-germany]

Probably I am not going to make any friends (again), but I have a problem with the current posturing of Epik as a warrior for free speech.

The way I see it it has never been about free speech. I see a two-fold objective:

1. alt-right propaganda under the guise of free speech, and conspiracy theories in general
   
2. to promote Epik products and services

I know Rob is going to strongly disagree, but 2) is hard to disprove.
To be clear, I welcome and support commercial entities that embrace values and try to make the world a better place. But I have a problem with debasement of values. There is a disconnect what Epik says and what Epik does.

If Epik had chosen to support people who are truly dedicated to free speech, upholding civil liberties and against censorship, etc then I would look at Epik differently today. Epik is the proverbial lost sheep.

Finally, when it comes to liberating technology Epik is not offering anything special or revolutionary. Take the VPN service: it's just Openvpn repackaged with a bit of marketing. Epik is a commercial provider and hoster among many others. Not some kind of maverick or disrupter.

People who want to circumvent censorship can for example use Tor, I2P or other platforms and go underground. There is plenty of free software solutions to protect your privacy like PGP that has been available for a very long time.
Freedom-minded individuals have not waited for a savior like Epik.

In fact, the numerous private corporations that have donated to any of those open-source projects have contributed more to freedom and free speech than Epik ever will. The company has made poor decisions due to poor judgment, and needs realignment.

@Kate

thank you for exposing yourself to so much critism

I support what you say

 

[frank-germany]

I want to talk about Epik the registrar not Rob for a little bit. They have some features helpful for domainers that nobody else has..

that is true
that why its not an easy decision to choose another registrar

In the performance tab you get estibots valuation for free .

that is a very questionable "advantage" and mostly it's disadvantage

..how many Whois searches have been performed on your name in the past 6 months. There are likely other pluses for domainers I haven’t noticed yet.

that is a very usefull feature
but I was never sure what time frame it relates to
and how they can come up with such a value
and if the search was done by robots or human

They offer an $8.49 renewal for NameProers which is lower than most.

at clouflare it's a permanet $8.03 USD incl Ican fees

They offer a free of commission sale venue if the domain is at Epik. .

thats a very nice feature
I have sold a name that way - thank you Rob

on the other hand you are bound to their lander
which eventually is not sales optimized
at least it didn't perform extraordinarily
and wasn't modified since I joined

They offer instant transfers out if you decide to leave or sell your name.

that's as good as it should be

They offer loans.

they never answered to my 1 loan request
and as its pending, I can't add another one

Epik the registrar shows me they are one of the most domainer friendly registrars out there.

they are helpful and supportive as it can be
nobody has ever complained about that

 

[Domains - Wanted]

Why are you talking about Poland so much?

Well, I can throw in examples from Russia, Germany, Hungary, Hong Kong, probably a few other countries, if it will make you feel any better