What is an "Average" domainer?

[biggie]

:talk:


figured i'd ask the question, since i see plenty of posts referrring to the "average domainer".

wanting to know what he/she makes a year, where they park their names, etc


so, in your mind.... What is an "Average Domainer"?

 

[TheBaldOne]

I guess the 'average domainer' consists of mainly those who come into domaining and last about 2 - 3 years as owners of domains.

In the first year they have entered domaining and registered a wide variety of domains 'because' they seemed to make sense at the time.

In the second year the first real hurdle arrives - the dreaded renewal fees! Here is where some will fall out of domaining, suddenly they are asked to pay for the renewals without having made any sales in the first year and therefore their 'dreams' are shattered. (This group I think are those who will buy a lottery ticket with more than a hope of winning but a belief they will win.)

For those that do pay renewal fees at the start of the second year most will refuse to do so again at the next anniversary of renewal fees, to these people they see domaining not now as a business but rather now a shoddy game and they will baulk at the very idea of investing in domains as to them it has become a waste of money.

Now those domainers who instead work at domaining, whether full time or part time, the first 2-3 years I think they treat as an apprentership in the industry, they study domaining, everything from what sells and where, how much for, who buys domains (both other domainers and external non-domaining businesses), they narrow their field/s of interest into which they will generally invest their domaining shekles into, they become ardent listeners and readers of news, are members of forums to pick up trends etc. (and not just domaining forums), these domainers will still 'punt' on registering or even purchasing domain names but be willing to change their mind and write off any investment in these domains should they not hold up to the initial promise (though they will generally try to sell them even at a loss to recoup some of the investment), but this now makes them a different kind of 'average domainer', they are now the 'experienced average domainer'.

So I think the 'experienced average domainer' is someone who no longer talks about their sales generally, someone who has developed interests in a wide variety of topics but a better knowledge than the general population on certain topics that are the essence of the subjects of their portfolio of domains.

The 'experienced average domainer' is neither rich nor poor through their domaining, they are long term investors which are willing to wait for one of their domain seeds to blossom into a magnificent flower which they shall benefit from the sale or development of, and be happy with the result for themselves.

Oh, and one other thing, an 'experienced average domainer' will be thick skinned - for they will have learned to ignore the insulting offers for their domain names from other domainers and wannabe owners of their domains. (I remember getting a derisory offer that literally was 'insulting' from a well known member of the community for a domain of mine, my reply was simple but not rude, I simply asked which minute of which day of which year did he want to rent my domain for, I am glad to say he got the message. )

 

[Steve Andersen]

I feel like I am an average domainer. I started around July of 2019. I think and did not get a sale until Nov that year. Then did not get another sale till march of 2020.

Fast forward to 2022 and I started the year off with $5182 in net payments I’ll get this year after commissions from domains sold last year on payment plans.

January 2022 I had 4 sales $1600 Dan, $4988 Afternic, $1495 Afternic, $2288 Afternic.

February 2022 I had 3 sales $2799 SquadHelp, $2500 SquadHelp, $3150 Afternic.

March 2022 - Suffering from domainer depression - I have not sold a name this month, by now I have learned they sell in spurts.

I focus primarily on Brandables priced in the $2-5K range with some outliers in the 5 figure+ range.

I have tried traffic names and I’m not very good at. I have tried some GEO names haven’t been to successful at them. I have had limited success with some exact match names.

My current net sales after commissions counting payments I getting this year from last years sales are $19,591. While this may sound great $27K is what I have to clear to break even on renewal costs. I expect to hit the break even point this year by end of April - Mid May. Then the rest of the year is for profit an taxes.

I still take 100% of my profits and expand my portfolio I do buy some names at auctions, but 95% are from back orders / closeouts / or from names acquired from other Domainers.

The most I have paid for a name thus far is $1602. While I like the idea owning quality names, I also realize I don’t have the capital to buy a bunch of them. So I try to pick up low priced names that are brandable, but after a sale I do try to lever up 1 name sometimes 2 in the $500-$1200 range at auctions.

 

[inforg]

I feel like I am an average domainer. I started around July of 2019. I think and did not get a sale until Nov that year. Then did not get another sale till march of 2020.

Fast forward to 2022 and I started the year off with $5182 in net payments I’ll get this year after commissions from domains sold last year on payment plans.

January 2022 I had 4 sales $1600 Dan, $4988 Afternic, $1495 Afternic, $2288 Afternic.

February 2022 I had 3 sales $2799 SquadHelp, $2500 SquadHelp, $3150 Afternic.

March 2022 - Suffering from domainer depression - I have not sold a name this month, by now I have learned they sell in spurts.

I focus primarily on Brandables priced in the $2-5K range with some outliers in the 5 figure+ range.

I have tried traffic names and I’m not very good at. I have tried some GEO names haven’t been to successful at them. I have had limited success with some exact match names.

My current net sales after commissions counting payments I getting this year from last years sales are $19,591. While this may sound great $27K is what I have to clear to break even on renewal costs. I expect to hit the break even point this year by end of April - Mid May. Then the rest of the year is for profit an taxes.

I still take 100% of my profits and expand my portfolio I do buy some names at auctions, but 95% are from back orders / closeouts / or from names acquired from other Domainers.

The most I have paid for a name thus far is $1602. While I like the idea owning quality names, I also realize I don’t have the capital to buy a bunch of them. So I try to pick up low priced names that are brandable, but after a sale I do try to lever up 1 name sometimes 2 in the $500-$1200 range at auctions.

You are off to a great start. You should be at the point now where you have enough sales to see what areas you really excel at picking names in. focus on those type of names.

Just a guess, but I think your quickest path to profit is probably to scale down your portfolio some. You know you got some losers in there (we all do)

renewal savings are just as good for reinvestment as new money is.

 

[Steve Andersen]

You are off to a great start. You should be at the point now where you have enough sales to see what areas you really excel at picking names in. focus on those type of names.

Just a guess, but I think your quickest path to profit is probably to scale down your portfolio some. You know you got some losers in there (we all do)

renewal savings are just as good for reinvestment as new money is.

@inforg Thanks for the compliments and advice, you are correct to thin out the junk. I have been doing this more effectively this year starting 90 days to expiration trying to liquidate them via SAV and GD Auctions, Slack for BB and SH names and NameLiquidate when at expiration.

I might need to look further out and identify earlier ones I don’t want to hold, and possibly drop prices some, this I am leary of, I have sold multiple names that I had planned to drop. Most recent was a 3 character alpha-numeric.net. But out of the blue got an email it sold via fast transfer.

 

[biggie]

I guess the 'average domainer' consists of mainly those who come into domaining and last about 2 - 3 years as owners of domains.

Hi
it seems from other replies, those 2-3 years could represent the "tenure" for the average domainer.
as it may take that length of time to get over the learning curve

Thanks for your assessment!

imo...

I feel like I am an average domainer. I started around July of 2019.

Hi Steve

That was an insightful post, showing both your patience and your stress
but it's good to read how you stuck with it and now it is paying off

Thanks for sharing!

imo...

renewal savings are just as good for reinvestment as new money is.

Hi

totally agree,
i've dropped names over the years to trim down the portfolio.
at one time, holding as many as 2500 domains, now down to around 250 or so.

it may reduce the number of lines in the water, but now i don't have to buy as much bait.


imo...

 

[Domaineri]

My current net sales after commissions counting payments I getting this year from last years sales are $19,591. While this may sound great $27K is what I have to clear to break even on renewal costs. I expect to hit the break even point this year by end of April - Mid May. Then the rest of the year is for profit an taxes.

Steve, this is great! Thank you for sharing!
Can you please share the selling rate? number of domains sold/total
Is it 1-2% as everybody says?
I'm new to domaining and still looking forward to my first sale (as you've waited till Nov, I hope...). I'm using the appraisal tools (Esti, Saw, GD and Alter) that everybody hates, but I don't have any other compass (for now )

 

[Steve Andersen]

Steve, this is great! Thank you for sharing!
Can you please share the selling rate? number of domains sold/total
Is it 1-2% as everybody says?
I'm new to domaining and still looking forward to my first sale (as you've waited till Nov, I hope...). I'm using the appraisal tools (Esti, Saw, GD and Alter) that everybody hates, but I don't have any other compass (for now )

Time flies in domain world, I completely forgot about this post.

To follow up, I am averaging ~2 retail sales per month. Currently at 15 for the year, average sale price $3688.

Best tool for brandable pricing when starting is BrandBucket current listings. SH too, but ymmv here, many offer names too low others have ability to adjust to infinity so while curated probably not best for figuring pricing.

I think the biggest hurdle to a new domainer is understanding that appraisal tools simply don’t work and can be more of your enemy than friend. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they are all bad.

Godaddy Go value means very little to what domain will sell for retail. But what you can ascertain from it is value of one name relative to another. If your unsure of two names and one has $4200 GoValue the other $1800. Then more than likely the $4200 name is a better name. But neither means the domain should be sold at that price.

Best use scenario either could sell for any price many multiples higher. Your best tool here till you build your own gut instinct are past sales info from places like NameBio, best use scenario like LinkedIn/Crunchbase/GitHub (how many companies pop for your keyword combo), stay up on trends in domain areas you focus on. A low value word today might be high value tomorrow.

To prove this point study Godaddy’s NameFind portfolio. Check there price against there appraisal tool and whoola you will see right away everything is listed higher.

Estibot most don’t understand, their appraisals are always low. But a few times extremely high. First off their system was only designed around traffic names more importantly names with traffic and CPC. Brandable names have neither thus you see 0 most times. Be careful of traffic just because a name once made good sense doesn’t mean it will today (like LaserDisc)

Again don’t focus on price they give but look at the search and CPC info they give and make sure the comps match up. Just use this as a data point as you research the name.

What I do like about it is using for needle in the haystack you can scan large lists at once for possible diamonds in the rough, parse keywords, parse domain names out of any text etc. get bulk Whois info in bulk on entire list.

SAW - really for people with higher quality names, they to me seem to be on low end more often.

Nameworth - I would save my money.

 

[Domaineri]

Time flies in domain world, I completely forgot about this post.

To follow up, I am averaging ~2 retail sales per month. Currently at 15 for the year, average sale price $3688.

Best tool for brandable pricing when starting is BrandBucket current listings. SH too, but ymmv here, many offer names too low others have ability to adjust to infinity so while curated probably not best for figuring pricing.

I think the biggest hurdle to a new domainer is understanding that appraisal tools simply don’t work and can be more of your enemy than friend. But it doesn’t necessarily mean they are all bad.

Godaddy Go value means very little to what domain will sell for retail. But what you can ascertain from it is value of one name relative to another. If your unsure of two names and one has $4200 GoValue the other $1800. Then more than likely the $4200 name is a better name. But neither means the domain should be sold at that price.

Best use scenario either could sell for any price many multiples higher. Your best tool here till you build your own gut instinct are past sales info from places like NameBio, best use scenario like LinkedIn/Crunchbase/GitHub (how many companies pop for your keyword combo), stay up on trends in domain areas you focus on. A low value word today might be high value tomorrow.

To prove this point study Godaddy’s NameFind portfolio. Check there price against there appraisal tool and whoola you will see right away everything is listed higher.

Estibot most don’t understand, their appraisals are always low. But a few times extremely high. First off their system was only designed around traffic names more importantly names with traffic and CPC. Brandable names have neither thus you see 0 most times. Be careful of traffic just because a name once made good sense doesn’t mean it will today (like LaserDisc)

Again don’t focus on price they give but look at the search and CPC info they give and make sure the comps match up. Just use this as a data point as you research the name.

What I do like about it is using for needle in the haystack you can scan large lists at once for possible diamonds in the rough, parse keywords, parse domain names out of any text etc. get bulk Whois info in bulk on entire list.

SAW - really for people with higher quality names, they to me seem to be on low end more often.

Nameworth - I would save my money.

Wow, Steve, thanks so much for your time! Appreciate it!
I will reprice my domains. Do you think I should expect an annual sales rate of 1-2%?
It looks like you've figured it out! I'm happy for you! Thanks again for everything!

 

[biggie]

To follow up, I am averaging ~2 retail sales per month. Currently at 15 for the year, average sale price $3688.

Hi Steve

really appreciate you sharing your perspectives in this thread

Thanks

imo...

 

[Steve Andersen]

Wow, Steve, thanks so much for your time! Appreciate it!
I will reprice my domains. Do you think I should expect an annual sales rate of 1-2%?
It looks like you've figured it out! I'm happy for you! Thanks again for everything!

Annual sale rate depends on many factors. Mine is closer 0.9%

Besides the usual items discussed like quality, length, style, radio test, registered tld’s, domain age and more. Your price has a huge effect on velocity of sales. Example you have 100 names with GD Govalue appraisals of 2300-2500.

Priced at $500 you may have 5% STR, $1000 may have 2-3% STR. Priced the way most Domainers price for retail probably closer to 1% or lower.

Let’s say in above scenario your average cost per domain is $150 setting you back $15K you get great STR 5% selling names at $500 so you sell 5 names gross $2500 but have avg 20% commissions netting you $1600 the 95 names you don’t sell have renewals of $950. At this rate you will throw the towel in before you break even. So high STR doesn’t mean great success. If you had sold at $1000 and had 3% STR you would net $2400 after 20% commission and renewals would be around $970 on domains not sold. Your doing better but still takes a long time to break even.

But if you forget about STR and price names in line to where they should be you may find yourself only selling ~1 name per 100 a year, but it may sell for $4K or higher. Ultimately you will make more pricing them correctly even if your sales are substantially lower. You should also have 3-5% of your names as shoot for the moon. You will never get a 5 figure name sell if you don’t ask for 5 figures like wise 6 or 7. Just (1) 5 figure or 6 figure sale can make a huge difference on an domainers portfolio average domain sell price.

There are a few scenario this doesn’t apply to: Some people sales style is to aquire or hand reg names with the soul purpose to flip to other Domainers. These types of sales are general 2-5x acquisition costs and they don’t hold large passive portfolios. They are looking to make small profits and run. Some very successful Domainers run this strategy. But this requires commitment and hustle, this won’t work well passively.

Another scenario are people out bounding domains not just sitting back passively. These people generally buy a few names work them hard sell a few and add a few more to work.

 

[redemo]

 

[Domaineri]

Annual sale rate depends on many factors. Mine is closer 0.9%

Besides the usual items discussed like quality, length, style, radio test, registered tld’s, domain age and more. Your price has a huge effect on velocity of sales. Example you have 100 names with GD Govalue appraisals of 2300-2500.

Priced at $500 you may have 5% STR, $1000 may have 2-3% STR. Priced the way most Domainers price for retail probably closer to 1% or lower.

Let’s say in above scenario your average cost per domain is $150 setting you back $15K you get great STR 5% selling names at $500 so you sell 5 names gross $2500 but have avg 20% commissions netting you $1600 the 95 names you don’t sell have renewals of $950. At this rate you will throw the towel in before you break even. So high STR doesn’t mean great success. If you had sold at $1000 and had 3% STR you would net $2400 after 20% commission and renewals would be around $970 on domains not sold. Your doing better but still takes a long time to break even.

But if you forget about STR and price names in line to where they should be you may find yourself only selling ~1 name per 100 a year, but it may sell for $4K or higher. Ultimately you will make more pricing them correctly even if your sales are substantially lower. You should also have 3-5% of your names as shoot for the moon. You will never get a 5 figure name sell if you don’t ask for 5 figures like wise 6 or 7. Just (1) 5 figure or 6 figure sale can make a huge difference on an domainers portfolio average domain sell price.

There are a few scenario this doesn’t apply to: Some people sales style is to aquire or hand reg names with the soul purpose to flip to other Domainers. These types of sales are general 2-5x acquisition costs and they don’t hold large passive portfolios. They are looking to make small profits and run. Some very successful Domainers run this strategy. But this requires commitment and hustle, this won’t work well passively.

Another scenario are people out bounding domains not just sitting back passively. These people generally buy a few names work them hard sell a few and add a few more to work.

Steve, thank you! You helped me a lot with figuring this out!!!

Have you had a chance to wholesale some of your domains?
I saw in one of Namepro's surveys, that many in the community use it as part of their work routine (about 20% of their sales are through wholesale).

 

[Steve Andersen]

Steve, thank you! You helped me a lot with figuring this out!!!

Have you had a chance to wholesale some of your domains?
I saw in one of Namepro's surveys, that many in the community use it as part of their work routine (about 20% of their sales are through wholesale).

Yes I have

 

[biggie]

Annual sale rate depends on many factors. Mine is closer 0.9%

Besides the usual items discussed like quality, length, style, radio test, registered tld’s, domain age and more. Your price has a huge effect on velocity of sales. Example you have 100 names

Hi Steve

i agree, the usual items like quality, extension, etc, will always be big factor.

but i liked the way you "broke it down" with those pricing and other variable examples and how they can affect STR, while also noting the STR is not as important as ROI, per sale.

nice post!

imo...

 

[blogspotter]

I feel like I am an average domainer. I started around July of 2019. I think and did not get a sale until Nov that year. Then did not get another sale till march of 2020.

Fast forward to 2022 and I started the year off with $5182 in net payments I’ll get this year after commissions from domains sold last year on payment plans.

January 2022 I had 4 sales $1600 Dan, $4988 Afternic, $1495 Afternic, $2288 Afternic.

February 2022 I had 3 sales $2799 SquadHelp, $2500 SquadHelp, $3150 Afternic.

March 2022 - Suffering from domainer depression - I have not sold a name this month, by now I have learned they sell in spurts.

Bro.. This is as if I wrote it LMAO. Except you were exactly 1 year earlier.

I started in July 2020 had has my first sale in Nov 2020, but.. I don't know what kind of luck it was but I had 4 sales in Nov-Dec and 3 SEDO sales, can you believe it.

And my next sale would be in April I think. I had the domainer depression pretty much from Jan to Mar hahaha.

But that was also the time when I burnt the candles at both ends and I guess I am still reaping the rewards from those days.

 

[biggie]

I started in July 2020 had has my first sale in Nov 2020,

Hi

having a sale within a few months, probably gave you a lot of motivation to keep going.

fast forward to today and now some who don't get a sale within a few months think the domain sky is falling.

so, i guess it's how you see the game, in your own time frame.



imo...

 

[Domaineri]

Hi

having a sale within a few months, probably gave you a lot of motivation to keep going.

fast forward to today and now some who don't get a sale within a few months think the domain sky is falling.

so, i guess it's how you see the game, in your own time frame.



imo...

Yes, I agree.
When we start, we have a 60-days period in which we study the market and purchase domains that are not eligible for fast transfer. Then, there's the selling percentage factor - if you have only 100 eligible domains, you'll sell 1 domain in 1 year (in a good scenario).
So in the beginning, it's really difficult to understand if you're doing ok or not.

 

[StartupNames]

No way to know unless one performed a survey.
Without that, most people are probably biased by their own experiences.
One problem with a survey is that I don't think many people want to share that information

Agree

 

[HotKey]

Hi

having a sale within a few months, probably gave you a lot of motivation to keep going.

fast forward to today and now some who don't get a sale within a few months think the domain sky is falling.

so, i guess it's how you see the game, in your own time frame.



imo...

Well said, and to expand a bit; there is a euphoric sense of like "wow, that was easy" after a sale that makes the mind think the next one is just around the corner. But when just around the corner turns into days, weeks, even a month or two, it can lead to a sense of stagnation and indeed, the sky is falling.

I think a couple of things to keep in mind on is what the domain sold for and the quality of the name. Some stuff isn't easily replicated and long waits in between a sale are nothing to worry about.

And time frames are dependent on the type of domainer you are, long term with a small portfolio vs thousands of names where quick flips are your bread and butter. Stagnation doesn't work well on the latter and indeed there may be an issue there if it occurs.

 

[Kenny]

Well said, and to expand a bit; there is a euphoric sense of like "wow, that was easy" after a sale that makes the mind think the next one is just around the corner. But when just around the corner turns into days, weeks, even a month or two, it can lead to a sense of stagnation and indeed, the sky is falling.

I think a couple of things to keep in mind on is what the domain sold for and the quality of the name. Some stuff isn't easily replicated and long waits in between a sale are nothing to worry about.

And time frames are dependent on the type of domainer you are, long term with a small portfolio vs thousands of names where quick flips are your bread and butter. Stagnation doesn't work well on the latter and indeed there may be an issue there if it occurs.

It can be a little like when someone is first learning to play poker.
The first time they draw to an inside straight they make the hand.
Now they may think, "Hey, nothing to this game", and spend the rest of their life, (and their money) trying to fill an inside straight.

Peace,
Kenny

 

[J.R.]

An average domainer spends more annually on renewal fees than they earn in profits from selling domain names.

 

[HotKey]

It can be a little like when someone is first learning to play poker.
The first time they draw to an inside straight they make the hand.
Now they may think, "Hey, nothing to this game", and spend the rest of their life, (and their money) trying to fill an inside straight.

Peace,
Kenny

Any second now.. it's coming I know it is. :P

Good correlation. Methinks some of domaining has more to do with the bluff, then the actual cards. Not my gig, but some have it down to an art.

 

[biggie]

Methinks some of domaining has more to do with the bluff, then the actual cards.

Hi

well.... psych, hype and propaganda, by a persona` or highly followed figure in the game,
could manipulate or convince the masses in a closed environment such as this.

it's human nature to want to believe in something, and because of that,
i've seen it happen more than once, over the course of two decades.

fact-checking, doing the due-diligence, questioning the questionable and actually reading the words that are written... without adding or subtracting, while having ability to "read in between" the lines as well.

and even after all that, you still might get suckered


imo....