What happened to Pheenix ?

[hlkvrl]

The last time the results fail. Backorder did but I get the domain manually.

Is having problems?

 

[gorilla_bob]

Gr8trfoo,

I had a chance to review this ticket in depth. I think there is a disconnect that can be resolved. However, here are the facts and concerns we have towards the case.

1. Your invoices were over 2 months late. We had tried to contact you numerous times to pay the invoices and never heard back. These were invoices totaling hundreds to thousands of dollars.

2. At some point, we had to assume that this account was fraudulent and that we had to liquidate the domain names that were unpaid for as well as the domains left in the account.

3. After several months, you paid for the invoices. Upon opening a ticket asking where were the domain names that you paid for we had not first noticed that this was a banned/fraudulent account.

It was upon reviewing your account further did we see that this could potentially be a fraud account.
It was at this time that we asked to perform a routine security check to make sure that the account belonged to a legitimate member.

4. Here are the concerns we have and why the check was necessary:

a. Some of the domain names have already been liquidated for previous non-payment.
b. Some domain names are kept in our escrow account and can be moved to your account. However, there is a risk that the card used was stolen or a chargeback can happen. As the domain names are older than 60 days now, if we release these domain names to your account, there is no stopping you from transferring them out and then doing a chargeback. This is a big concern due to the non-payments of the large invoices in the past.

For the above reasons, we had initiated the security check.

I'm hoping that you see our side as well and that we just got caught up in the middle of this due to the invoices not being paid and now it has come to a very weird situation where noone is winning.

We are more than happy to figure out a way to resolve this, but how are we compensated for loss on our side for the domain names that we ordered for you but since they left unpaid, we had to foot the bill for the registrations?

I'm willing to work to move forward on this, but we need to come to an equitable solution.

Thanks.

Tan Tran

 

[Soofi]

DropCatch's practice of anyone being able to bid in a drop auction is a huge flaw (maybe not for them), however for domain name investors like us it is as I strongly refrain from using their service.

 

[FPForum]

It's true that VeriSign has said things to registrars about drop catching this year. I can't say they are wanting to *abolish* it completely, but I can say for a fact that I know three different registrars whom have been "slapped on the wrist" over the past few months by VeriSign, for things related to drop catching. Keep in mind, it's only VeriSign who has done this, so I'm guessing it only effects the VeriSign extensions (COM/NET/CC/TV). Plenty of registrars are still allowing drop catching or doing it for themselves, so I wouldn't say VeriSign is pushing them to get rid of it completely, not right now anyways..

Guys like DropCatch, NameJet, SnapNames, Name.com have so many dozens of registrars setup, they can probably fly under the radar easier than some of the others. I don't think Pheenix has half the number of accredited registrars that the others do..That could be part of the reason their success has gone down. If they got contacted by VeriSign it could have a huge impact on their success rates.

 

[JB Lions]

I think he's saying he placed a backorder with Pheenix and they didn't get it, but that he was able to reg it on his own. I'm kind of wondered that myself. It seems with domains with lots of backorders they have some success but I've had some where I didn't think they would have that many, that maybe it could just be me and a few other people and another place catches it.

 

[BrandFishing]

Drop Catch Of course.

 

[Ilhicas]

They may be dedicating more of their resources to the domains with more bids. More bids = More people in the auction = More money... It may be more worthwhile for them to dedicate resources trying to get a name that could sell for $XXX or $XXXX in their auction as opposed to a domain with just 1-2 backorders..

That might be true but a coin always has two sides, if they forget the average joe who doesn't want get into a bid war and sees that all the domains he backorders just go to hand reggers or pseudo backorder services they might lose their clients and to be honest I found out about pheenix due to whois mostly, less domains caught. less publicity less clients and we all know where it ends. They got their clients based on an affordable service that is no longer affordable due to bid wars and might lose the others due to non caught domains.

 

[tonyk2000]

AFAIK, an exact drop order is known - disclosed by the verisign registry. Resultingly, each and every drop catching service is perfectly well able to predict an exact "timestamp" (millisecond) to try to acquire each particular pre-ordered domain, and they should be programming the scripts accordingly. It would therefore make no sense to prefer one pre-ordered domain to another. What likely happens is that pheenix simply became less competetive, thanks to Andrew Reberry / dropcatch.com who recently activated 299 new registrar accreditations as noticed in another thread -
namepros.com/threads/one-company-now-owns-almost-a-third-of-all-registrars.843155/
Indeed, dropcatch would "queue" each and every more or less valuable domain for catching - if not for dropcatch dot com customers ($59 backorder fee), then for their own portfolio. The issue is that IF the domain is worth only $18.95 pheenix fee, or lets say handreg fee - then the fact that dropcatch/hugedomains is looking for it for their own portfolio does not change its "domainers" value, so it makes no sense to backorder it with snapnames/nj/ or dropcatch.com itself for $59 or $69

 

[Bennett G.]

The biggest problem with Dropcatch is if theres more than one backorder, domains are available for anyone to bid on, which I don't consider as a fair proctice (yet extremely profitable for dropcatch). And many good domains are caught by them for Hugedomains, their own domain store. So basically if I don't BO with them, they are my competitor in acquiring the name, so obviously I would have to BO with them.

For 10 more bucks one would rather go with Snapnames. Infact lately I have seen a lot of domains going to Snapnames as well, even mediocre ones. I am sure there are many who don't consider Pheenix a reliable BO service anymore.

 

[Brandworthy]

From a recent news email they sent:

3.We are working on a new drop catch system that will increase catches. This will be operational soon.

FWIW I've placed about 50 orders in last couple of weeks and not one of those caught or gone to auction. Previously they were catching and auctioning some very good names.

 

[Soofi]

From a recent news email they sent:


FWIW I've placed about 50 orders in last couple of weeks and not one of those caught or gone to auction. Previously they were catching and auctioning some very good names.

looks like their ability of catching names have gone down the drain

 

[Name Trader]

They still catch for me all the domains nobody else wants. They have a near 100% record. Even lately.

 

[Name Trader]

@Violets - It was a joke unfortunately true

 

[Name Trader]

True for me too. Pheenix charged less fee though.

But I take @Violets point they are still more expensive than regfee

 

[Jasonn]

That's always a possibility. To counter that possibility, and it's only a possibility, you should ALWAYS enter a DropCatch bid. That way, if Andrew is to be believed, he wont let DropCatch/HugeDomains compete against you. But because DropCatch is so successful, you are faced with paying $59 if you are the only bidder, and considerably more if there are multiple bidders.

i try to avoid using dropcatch whenever possible. if a domain goes to auction, its a lost cause as the bids always go above what the domain is worth. its fine if you're the only bidder but if you're not, i'd rather the domain go to snapnames or somewhere else. i wish pheenix would get back on track.

 

[thebutler]

Pheenix is doing well this days.
Sometimes their success rate is good.
Today Pheenix caught a nice LLLL.com.
They managed to beat Namejet.com(it had dozens of backorders there), dropcatch.com and Snapnames.com.
All the major drop catchers were beaten.
Probably it will go to an auction soon(hopefully not).

It is true that Pheenix is less successful than the major drop catchers but it catches very nice domains once in a while.

You're likely talking hubx dot com which is auction at Pheenix, correct. Ya they grabbed that today.

As I test I backordered 8 domains that I knew would get caught somewhere. Some LLLL.com, NNNNN.com, 8gv.com etc. Out of the eight I backordered Dropcatch grabbed 6 of them.

 

[Garandy]

It would certainly be amusing to watch the industry cope with 3 (instead of 1) of the major catching services operating on a public auction model; from what I've seen, there are people on here who may need a doctor to help deal with the outrage-induced-stroke that'll bring on.

As for their success rate, based on what I've been watching it's more like 2/3 over the last couple of weeks, but if they position themselves right by competing in the low-price market, they could still stand to do some serious damage to some of the other services (Pheenix, etc).

 

[Garandy]

The problem with not using DropCatch is that they have HugeDomains more than willing to take the good names if no users feel like backordering them. You can not-backorder the top couple thousand per day and they'll still go after then; the difference is that you won't have the chance to get it at $59 at that point, but whatever thousands HD is selling it for.

 

[tonyk2000]

If we forget about open/closed auctions for a moment. What has happened - well-funded "Big Gorilla" enters unregulated "wild west" market and wants to become the only player in town.(assuming that we understand that ICANN does not really regulate anything except their own pockets). How wise is it? Will the "Big Gorilla" win? There is an interesting part of mathematical science, called "Game theory", which teachs us that it may not necessary be the case. For example, something bad may happen - and the whole market will be changed under new rules, or closed. Nobody will win. "Live and let live" - a perfect principle that should have been applied instead. This priniciple is unfortunately not applied by the mentioned "Big Gorilla" in any aspect.

Returning to our terms, some members may remember an idea of a centralized WLS - domain wait list and grab service powered by the central registry. This would have effectively eliminated any dropcatching competition. This WLS never became live due to serious complaints from dropcatchers, domainers, and, most importantly, endusers. ICANN was forced to stop it. Now, mentioned WLS is going to be in-fact replaced by private dropcatch dot com website. At least it is what endusers will think.

So, should the whole game be changed someday, in such a way that maintaining hundreds of registrars will become irrelevant for example, and/or in any other aspects, we all should "thank" Andrew Reberry for this.

 

[SeriousName.com]

Sorry, but I'm having a tough time believing any part this story. Hopefully you can find the article so we can have a look at the details.

I will find it and link it to this thread.......yea but uh its just a post I read and thought was a pretty nice Idea........who needs a dictatorship in domaining? Pay some one that has a qwerty program that catches names for quadruple the price of regfee? Nah get down and click fast like the rest of us. FREEDOM!

 

[Jasonn]

Not off hand, it is somewhere i'm sure in my millions of bookmarks..I will update when I find the material.

*edit* I do remember reading that after this rule is passed if it does get passed. Dropcatchers and anyone involved in dropcatching will not be allowed to register any longer. So basically if this rule passes and you are caught dropcatching , you will be essentially banned from domaining! wild.

i don't see how 'dropcatching' could ever be banned. what is the difference between a hand reg and someone setting up a program to auto check every second for availability? there will always be a way around it and the guys with most money will be ones who will win if there is no 'dropcatching' allowed. without programs like snapnames, namejet, it would be big players with sophisticated software getting all the good expired domains. the average joe will have no shot unlike he does now. all he needs is some money.

 

[Zombies]

Anyone able to access Pheenix today!!?

It has been down for hours ! Are they dead?!

 

[vivaldi]

Anyone able to access Pheenix today!!?

It has been down for hours ! Are they dead?!

Can't access it either neither can isitdownrightnow et.al.

 

[main]

Anyone able to access Pheenix today!!?

It has been down for hours ! Are they dead?!

I was on earlier, but it is down for me right now.

 

[000]

Back up now

 

[FPForum]

I would probably have agree with @stub that when it comes to drop catching COM/NET, DropCatch (Andrew Reberry) is the biggest player in the game. The two medium drop-catchers he is referring to I can only assume is probably NameJet and SnapNames - Would probably have to agree there as well. But keep in mind, drop catching isn't only limited to the COM/NET extension. There are some other major players out there, just not in those two extensions. Some ccTLD extensions get decent numbers of backorders as well. However, those three would have to be the biggest hands down because they have more accredited registrars and partnering registrars under their belt than anyone else..

I myself would have to give Andrew Reberry major props for how he has managed to build up his empire. I see him as someone who worked his way up from ordinary drop catching, to building and developing the HugeDomains marketplace, to taking things one step further and offering his massive arsenal of registrars to work for the public with DropCatch.com. People may complain about the minimum bid amounts, or auction that go up into the hundreds or thousands of dollars.. But, take a minute and imagine what it must have cost to hit up ICANN and setup 50+ accredited registrars. Not to mention the yearly renewal fees on all of those. It's the same with NameJet and SnapNames, which is why the higher minimum bids at those places makes sense. It is all a numbers game and the person who has the most accredited registrars (which aren't open to the public) will likely have the most success. I also believe the bigger outlets will dedicated more of their "resources" to catching names which have more backorder requests. If ABCD.com has 2 backorder request, and ABC.com has 15 - They are going to be focusing more of the requests for ABC.com since that one will likely pull more money in auction.

When I heard about the slap on the wrist stuff I hadn't read it on any blogs. That came from email communication with the registrars, and all three were contacted within about the same week of each other.. This was sometime back in mid-February. No idea if there were any fines handed out or anything of that nature, but it's true a small fine probably wouldn't deter the big operations. The ones that I heard this from weren't any of the big backorder outlets, so no idea if any of them were actually contacted or not. But, if a smaller outlet like Pheenix were to have been contacted, I could see that as maybe being a reason for the drop in recent success.