What a difference a hyphen (-) makes!

[TheBaldOne]

I have just been watching an auction on NameJet for the domain 'TuscaloosaCounty.com'. The name sold above my ceiling at $2,601.

Now let us look at this sale a little, yes Tuscaloosa is a nice county, situated in Alabama with a poulation estimate in 2009 of 164,875.

Now let us compare that with larger counties which contain a hyphen (-). Recently I advertised 37 such US counties on here first as an auction and then 'for offers'. Each county had a population ranging from 100,000 - over 1,000,000. I did not even get a sniff of interest even when the individual asking price was less than $45 each when bought as a single lot!

So let us assume that the counties I offered were of equal quality (apart from the hyphen) to TuscaloosaCounty.com (indeed they were better), that means that a hyphen knocks off more than 98% of the value of a non-hyphenated domain! What is more remember mine did not even get any interest so indeed they must have been regarded as over priced.

Now according to generally perceived wisdom the general order of valuing is:

.com > .net > .info > .org > .biz

(yes I know .org and .info can be exchanged).

Well it would now seem that hyphenated .com has a value on par with a .biz. The world has definately gone crazy.

 

[bmugford]

With that and using DogFood.com as an example, compared with Dog-Food.com

To me, it's not even in the same league. Both great for seo. Got your keywords in there. On the internet as a link, it's a link. You click either one, they'll go to the intended place. But after that, I can't see the dog-food.com being used on radio, tv, branding, newspapers etc, what I mentioned above. You'll end up driving a lot of traffic to dogfood.com. The dash just adds confusion. We can think of major .coms all day long without a dash. How many can you name with? So I can see the big value difference between the two and understand why there would be such a big difference. Even with my own sites, never registered a domain with a dash. One of my competitors, a couponer, has one with a dash and it's one the biggest things he regrets. Kills any chance of offline marketing.

Yes, but only one person can own DogFood.com. After that, everything else is a second option.

There are a lot more people looking for quality second options than who can afford the best.

I have found that domainers have far more bias against hyphens than end users do.

You are way more likely to sell a top 100,000 term in hyphenated .COM, or credible secondary extension, than the 20 millionth best .COM

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

Yes, but only one person can own DogFood.com. After that, everything else is a second option.

There are a lot more people looking for second options than who can afford the best.

Brad

Agree with that but they'll likely go for more of a branding .com rather than one with a dash. Again, I'm thinking more of the bigger companies or people that want a flexible domain, not one with limits, when it comes to advertising. That's why if I ask people here to come up with a list of dash .coms that you've seen advertised on tv, radio, newspapers, people would struggle coming up with such a list. I can't think of even one.

Now if you're talking more of a domainer looking to sell to another domainer, or someone who's thinking more internet only and some great keywords like what you mentioned above, ok. But I'm talking more about why there is such a big difference in value/price between keywordkeyword.com and keyword-keyword.com. The dash is very limiting.

"that people have got the warped idea that since a hyphen is not present in a domain then it whacks up the value of every domain in each, when it doesn't."

If you're comparing keywords straight up, dogfood.com vs. dog-food.com. Not in the same league as far as value. Now if was some place like Germany or somewhere else where it's more accepted, maybe.

"I have found that domainers have far more bias against hyphens than end users do.

You are way more likely to sell a top 100,000 term in hyphenated .COM than the 20 millionth best .COM"

The second part, yes. I'm talking about straight up comparison. The first part about end users, again, I'm think big end users. They have a bias against them to, that's why I don't see them on tv, newspapers, radio etc. The idea of a company building around a dash .com would get torn apart in a Marketing 101 class. I think you're talking about more the end user who is more concerned about getting good keywords and thinking more internet only. I can understand sales for that and you've personally seen them.

 

[bmugford]

The second part, yes. I'm talking about straight up comparison. The first part about end users, again, I'm think big end users. They have a bias against them to, that's why I don't see them on tv, newspapers, radio etc. The idea of a company building around a dash .com would get torn apart in a Marketing 101 class. I think you're talking about more the end user who is more concerned about getting good keywords and thinking more internet only. I can understand sales for that and you've personally seen them.

The vast majority of buyers are not large companies, they are small to medium business.

It is the same reason the biggest car companies in the world are Toyota, Honda, etc. and not Ferrari. Toyota and Honda sell cars to the average buyer.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

The vast majority of buyers are not large companies, they are small to medium business.

It is the same reason the biggest car companies in the world are Toyota, Honda, etc. and not Ferrari. Toyota and Honda sell cars to the average buyer.

Brad

Right, but even small or medium size businesses recognize the value of having a flexible domain name, not one you can only use online. Most of those companies have visions of growing.

The topic of the thread - What a difference a hyphen (-) makes!

Exactly. And what you posted earlier seems to agree with that:

"If a domain is only worth a few thousand in .COM it is barely worth owning in hyphenated .COM to be honest."

 

[bmugford]

Right, but even small or medium size businesses recognize the value of having a flexible domain name, not one you can only use online. Most of those companies have visions of growing.

Well, that is your opinion. Why would a website with a hyphen not be able to grow?

I make a living selling "second options" directly to end users.
To them they are not "second options" they are affordable quality options.

Brad

---------- Post added at 09:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------

"If a domain is only worth a few thousand in .COM it is barely worth owning in hyphenated .COM to be honest."

Yep. There is no point dealing in mediocre keywords for secondary options.

Any buyer of a secondary extension will only want premium terms.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

"Why could a website with a hyphen not be able to grow?"

I didn't say you couldn't grow, I said it was very limiting and I posted those limits in more than one post, dealing with advertising. I'm talking about the value difference between a .com without any dashes, vs. one with, same keywords.

Very simple. The keywordkeyword.com, you can do anything with. Online, offline etc. The keyword-keyword.com, limited to mainly online endeavors.

As far as small/medium companies - "Well, that is your opinion."

Right, but it's my opinion based on dealing with literally thousands of such companies via my coupon/deal site and affiliate marketing for 10+ years now. I have everything from the biggest merchants out there like Best Buy, Amazon etc. to the smallest ones you've never heard of. It's pretty rare you'll find one with a dash. Even the smallest mom and pops. Now I've seen affiliate sites all day long that use dashes, those might be some of the end users you're talking about and most affiliates don't have the type of sites even worthy of any offline advertising and are pretty happy with the traffic they get from online sources.

 

[bmugford]

"Why could a website with a hyphen not be able to grow?"

I didn't say you couldn't grow, I said it was very limiting and I posted those limits in more than one post, dealing with advertising. I'm talking about the value difference between a .com without any dashes, vs. one with, same keywords.

Very simple. The keywordkeyword.com, you can do anything with. Online, offline etc. The keyword-keyword.com, limited to mainly online endeavors.

Many times the premium .COM asking price can not be justified to the potential buyer. That is why so many are sitting around doing nothing 15+ years later.

It is also why I have sold so many premium hyphenated .COM and secondary extensions to end users.
Many have active sites that are doing well.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

"Many times the premium .COM asking price can not be justified to the potential buyer. That is why so many are sitting around doing nothing 15+ years later."

Went over that earlier, that's when they usually go for the branding.com vs. one with a dash. As far as these end users you're talking about. Again, they must not be the thousands of merchants with affiliate programs because I'm not seeing the dash .coms there. So are you saying they're merchants and if so, have any actual examples? Because to this point I haven't seen such a list. Or are you saying those end users are probably more the affiliate type? That I can see.

"Many have active sites that are doing well."

Can you list a few?

 

[bmugford]

"Many times the premium .COM asking price can not be justified to the potential buyer. That is why so many are sitting around doing nothing 15+ years later."

Went over that earlier, that's when they usually go for the branding.com vs. one with a dash. As far as these end users you're talking about. Again, they must not be the thousands of merchants with affiliate programs because I'm not seeing the dash .coms there. So are you saying they're merchants and if so, have any actual examples? Because to this point I haven't seen such a list. Or are you saying those end users are probably more the affiliate type? That I can see.

"Many have active sites that are doing well."

Can you list a few?

There are countless examples, but here are a few -

Wedding-Dress.com (Just Launched)

Website-Monitoring.com

CloudComputing.info

The vast majority of domain buyers are not major companies. They are small to medium size businesses.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

Wedding-Dress.com (Just Launched)

Website-Monitoring.com

I found a few myself, went thru Shareasales top 100, 3 had dashes. Those 2 above, there are active sites on the .com without the dash. So they're more limited to online only type of advertising, and they might be perfectly happy with that. Just not much of a chance for advertising beyond that. But if they do, I'm sure the .com without the dash would appreciate the free traffic.

 

[bmugford]

Wedding-Dress.com (Just Launched)

Website-Monitoring.com

I found a few myself, went thru Shareasales top 100, 3 had dashes. Those 2 above, there are active sites on the .com without the dash. So they more online only type of sites, and they might be perfectly happy with that. Just not much of a chance for advertising beyond that. But if they do, I'm sure the .com without the dash would appreciate the free traffic.

Well JB,

I am sorry the websites don't meet your approval.

The buyers were perfectly content to pay fair prices for the domains for their own uses.

WebsiteMonitoring.com - Alexa 7.1M
Website-Monitoring.com - Alexa 276,000

Considering the .COM is developed, they don't appear to be enjoying much traffic bleed.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

Well JB,

I am sorry the websites don't meet your approval.

The buyers were perfectly content to pay fair prices for the domains for their own uses.

WebsiteMonitoring.com - Alexa 7.1M
Website-Monitoring.com - Alexa 276,000

Considering the .COM is developed, they don't appear to be enjoying much traffic bleed.

Brad

It's not about my approval. Doesn't change a thing, the .com without a dash is worth more than the same keywords with a dash. Pretty basic. You take those type of domains, put them in auction vs each other, I think we all know which one is going to fetch more.

 

[bmugford]

It's not about my approval. Doesn't change a thing, the .com without a dash vs. the same keywords with a dash, is worth more. Pretty basic.

Well that is obvious.

But the hyphenated .COM can be a good second option.

Not everyone can, or wants to pay $50,000+ for a domain when they can get an a quality secondary option for a fraction of the price.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

Well that is obvious.

But the hyphenated .COM can be a good second option.

Not everyone can, or wants to pay $50,000+ for a domain when they can get an a quality secondary option for a fraction of the price.

Brad

So, I think our main point of disagreement is if you can't get the keywordkeyword.com you want, you would say get keyword-keyword.com? Or do you think a branding.com would be better?

Me, I'm picking the branding.com because you probably can get it cheaper or around the same price as the one with the dash and it's not limited at all, unlike the one with the dash.

 

[bmugford]

So, I think our main point of disagreement is if you can't get the keywordkeyword.com you want, you would say get keyword-keyword.com? Or do you think a branding.com would be better?

Me, I'm picking the branding.com because you probably can get it cheaper or around the same price as the one with the dash and it's not limited at all, unlike the one with the dash.

It really depends on the buyer and use. Branding.com is another good option.
I buy and sell plenty of those as well.

Something like BestWeddingDresses.com, or a pure brandable vs Wedding-Dress.com is a personal preference.

It is hard to hand reg a quality keyword brandable with 100M .COM taken, so many times buyers will have to turn to the secondary market where they can weigh the different options.

Brad

 

[Debt.tv]

Debt.tv, ???????????

What are you on about? This was a deleting domain drop of a domain (not mine) that was bought in an auction by a domainer on NameJet!

Only domainers use Namejet?

 

[Domainace]

"Again, I'm thinking advertising. Not only branding, seo but TV, newspapers, radio etc. With that I'm thinking a little bigger, companies and such. If you're more looking for seo and don't care about the other stuff, you can get by with a dash."

This is really as short-term as the type-in approach. Radio stations will commonly have a user interface in the near future, whether on an iPhone or in the car. Users will be able to touch a screen and go to the website as it's being discussed. Same for television. If newspapers all migrate like we expect to ereaders and tablets, same there too. Then there are qr codes that will be in anything you see in traditional print, from a poster to a magazine.

The current disadvantages of hyphens will steadily decrease, as they are mostly confined to situations where the domain is heard or seen, and then must be recalled in a separate action by the user. Sure, a few of those will remain, but not enough to make the name unattractive at a substantial savings over the unhyphenated version.

A domain will be necessary still for a long time to come, but the "radio test" is already headed for extinction.

I'm not trying to sell you on hyphens, as I already have enough competition there and don't need all and sundry domainers jumping in. But these are a few reasons why I think they are attractive buys.

 

[SiberForum]

To my mind hyphens may be as helpful as harmful: much depends on the certain domain names. All the domains no matter if there is or isn't a hyphen are well indexed especially when they contain keywords. Hyphen may make certain domain be easier to read and remember while others may get worse.

 

[HeatherWhite]

Whatever reason you have for using a hyphen in your domain name, it would be good to remember one thing. Some people will forget the hyphen when they type your domain name. So whenever you invest in promoting your site, some lucky webmaster who owns the un-hyphenated version of your domain is going to get some free traffic, courtesy of your hard work.

 

[scithe]

I've been going to planet-source-code.com for years. I've somehow just always remembered there are hypens.

I'd rather have dog-food.com than dogfood.biz because in my mind "biz" sounds like a pyramid scheme or MLM website. I'm just biased that way. If I owned Puppy Chow and was considering dog-food.com I'd pass if I knew Kibbles N Bits owned dogfood.com. Or if I did buy it, it would be for a redirect to puppychow.com.

I wouldn't think twice about buying a hypenated domain name if there was a developed website to go along with it. Or if it was a really hot keyword. Other than that I would probaby try to avoid them. Tuscaloosa-County.com can stay unregistered for all I care.