We Want Forever Registration!

[Business Brands]

Let's solicit the .com registry towards it.

 

[Samer]

And when someone dies/divorces, or just says, 'the hell with domains", those domains will be lost forever...

With all due respect, cuz i know this is genuine concern:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

The technology is there, even the consumer is scared to embrace it. i believe “forever domain” increase liquidity be enamored with perpetual digital sovereignty, still have ‘rags to riches’ -without BS 10 year max subscription.

I believe in the Epik mission and brand. Admirable, instead putting down Rob, move thread to Promotion (?) (it would be cool if was standard...) that’s the discussion worth having — w/o smear Rob IMO.

I hate the “rent-pay” mentality, hope Rob accomplishes!!

 

[vikki88]

Yes!
This would be a game changer

 

[Ja Kai]

With all due respect, cuz i know this is genuine concern:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/slippery-slope

The technology is there, even the consumer is scared to embrace it. i believe “forever domain” increase liquidity be enamored with perpetual digital sovereignty, still have ‘rags to riches’ -without BS 10 year max subscription.

I believe in the Epik mission and brand. Admirable, instead of putting down Rob, or move thread to Promotion (?) (it would be cool if this was standard...) that’s the discussion worth having — w/o smearing Rob.

How are we smearing Bob? Bob appears to be the CEO of CEO's, of Domain registrars. He is dynamic, always working, get's stuff done immediately, and a nice guy.

Can we not disagree with him?

 

[gtldomainer]

I spoke with a friend who runs his own domain-registrar.
He said he is paying about 1 USD (or less) per domain per year.

So the domain-registrars are actually making a lot of money.

I thought I read somewhere they pay ~$7 to ICANN.

 

[Samer]

How are we smearing Bob? Bob appears to be the CEO of CEO's, of Domain registrars. He is dynamic, always working, get's stuff done immediately, and a nice guy.

Can we not disagree with him?

Sorry!! wasnt directed at you. saw cheap shots before
(not u) Yea!! I believe the idea/business model is viable!!
Believe it can be done, in my lifetime. Epik going against the grain, offer it is only the first step.

You’re mad respectful lol, im talking about the ppl who use the opportunity bring up irrelevant topics ‘smears’
No dude, You’re not one them! only time tell who is right
Samer

 

[Ategy]

I spoke with a friend who runs his own domain-registrar.
He said he is paying about 1 USD (or less) per domain per year.
So the domain-registrars are actually making a lot of money.

That most definitely is not true for .com domains. Verisign wholesales .com domains to registrars at $7.85 each.

Also .. it's important to remember .. nobody actually owns domains .. when you pay for a domain, you pay for the exclusive right to use it (effectively renting the right to use it) .. but seems there's some funny wording at either Verisign or probably ICANN level that stipulates nobody owns domains (not sure if that applies to ccTLDs).

Technically, even with a forever domain, you will still not own it forever .. I think the logistics is that by paying the forever pricing, Epik commits to paying the cost to Verisign indefinitely. If in the unfortunate event something happens to Epik, then if your domain moves to another registrar, they will only honour whatever is currently paid (I'm assuming 9 years up front .. but not sure?)

For an end user, I suppose it's a good thing. Although in theory they are stuck at Epik forever .. including if they want to consolidate their domains to whereever their hosting is. Yes you can always set things up at Epik for that ,, and yes .. Epik is a great registrar ... but when looking at Forever domains, I'm talking about in general if it was offered by all registrars.

But for domainers and the overall domain ecosystem it's a bad thing (for many of the reasons @Ja Kai has pointed out). Basically if someone dies, then that domain is gone FOREVER! Short term it's not much different than someone registering for 10 years .. but what if the internet's address system lasts 100+ years?

It's kinda like when sports teams retire jersey numbers .. at first it's fine .. but then you have a 100 year old team like the Montreal Canadians with a strong tradition of winning and legendary players, and all of a sudden all the best numbers are no longer available.

I think the current 10 year limit is actually a smart thing. I love a lot of what Epik is doing in general .. and I think it's a cool offering for end-user clients .. but I can't say it's something I think is a good idea (for the internet in general) .. because at the end of the day it's not good for the domain ecosystem (and even worse for domainers unless you're prepared to make huge investments to scare potential clients .. but even then .. it would only show up to 9 years when they checked).

 

[Larion]

That most definitely is not true for .com domains. Verisign wholesales .com domains to registrars at $7.85 each.

if the wholesale-price from Verisign towards a Registrar is the same as the retail-price from a Registrar towards an end-user, then how do you think a Registrar is making any money ?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

if the wholesale-price from Verisign towards a Registrar is the same as the retail-price from a Registrar towards an end-user, then how do you think a Registrar is making any money ?

I suspect mainly from other services such as web hosting, from renewals at rates that do make money, or from other related services such as domain marketplaces, agents, etc.

While as noted there are occasionally volume incentives to registrars for specific periods, when registrars offer domains at less than their wholesale cost to registry they are losing money on that transaction that must be recouped elsewhere.

Bob

 

[Larion]

when registrars offer domains at less than their wholesale cost to registry they are losing money
Bob

I don't think so...

 

[Paul 11]

Forever domains sounds good if it's somehow guaranteed to be Forever although like most other Forever things like "lifetime warranty" it might be more of an advertising and branding tool than being what the word actually means.

Nevertheless why do we have to pay so much per year for a domain in the first place, I know that at the beginning it was necessary to charge something to get the internet infrastructure in place, but now that there are almost 300 million domains registered Worldwide why shouldn't the registry price of for example .com go down considering that the number of registrations have been steadily increasing and in a few years they might be double of what they are today.

I believe that when .com registrations reaches to 200 million the registry should be charging 99¢ per domain plus 2 or 3¢ for ICANN fees.

IMO

Sadly in a lot of companies/businesses these days, the motto is: If we can get your money we will. A corporate culture for many. We consumers have to have a conversation about this concerned reg fees, which this thread is doing.

 

[Ategy]

if the wholesale-price from Verisign towards a Registrar is the same as the retail-price from a Registrar towards an end-user, then how do you think a Registrar is making any money ?

Most .com domains are actually sold at $10-15+

It only goes below $10 at volume and a couple of registrars that are in the minority.

Hosting, privacy (not so much anymore), SSL, and email upselling are huge money makers and you will often even see FREE domains with hosting plans.

Instead of denying what the rest of us are saying and know to be true, please look it up .. Verisign is a public company and the information is public and not very hard to find.


Some TLDs do offer first year super discounts and even promotional money to registrars to place the domains on the home page, be part of email campaigns and be at top of searches.


When .xyz was selling at $0.01, they were operating at a loss as I think they were absorbing the $0.17 ICANN fees. Verisign doesn't need to give away .com domains when they are the most wanted .. in fact .. if they did that, one could argue it would have the effect of diminishing the brand.

 

[oldtimer]

if the wholesale-price from Verisign towards a Registrar is the same as the retail-price from a Registrar towards an end-user, then how do you think a Registrar is making any money ?

The Registry price for .com is $7.85 and so when Rob gives us those $5.99 specials it's actually a loss that he absorbs to keep us happy. That's why I was complaining about us having to pay so much for .coms earlier. If the Registry only charged lets say $1.99 then Rob could give us $2.99 specials on .coms and still make a little profit.

The Registry is taking a lot of money from everyone that they really don't deserve to have relative to what they do for us in return.

IMO

 

[oldtimer]

perpetual digital sovereignty

Although a little too long, but this might make for a good domain name.

This might also be a good subject for a new thread so that there can be some discussion as to how people can preserve their domains and websites (and other digital assets) beyond their own lifetime.

IMO

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

I had a dial up modem package that had a free lifetime support back in the days.

now where did I put that number...

 

[xynames]

There are measures in place to assure that your cemetery plot will be in perpetuity - no mortgage on the land, reserves, bonding, etc.

Same with life insurance companies, there are licensing bonding reserve requirement to ensure that they don’t get insolvent.

What measures are in place with these registrars to ensure that they’ll be around forever? We’ve already devoted a thread
https://www.namepros.com/threads/if...ng-time-and-money.1119508/page-7#post-7330261
to where the Monster argues that he doesn’t need to be licensed or bonded to perform “escrows,” and also mentioned in that thread and elsewhere is that the lack of any licensing bonding or even assets is at the heart of DAN’s shell game to immunize it from liability.

 

[Ategy]

The problem I have with Escrow.com being upset at Epik (@Rob Monster), is that Epik actually isn't Escrow .. it's a better replacement to Escrow because the transactions are instant. So it's like an Escrow .. has all the markings of an escrow transaction .. but since the transaction is instant and the funds<>domain gets exchanged at the same time, then there really isn't any holding time, and thus it's not an Escrow much in the same way Zero isn't a number but most people call it a number anyways. So the actual need for "escrow" becomes obsolete by the very nature of it being instant.

Even worse .. is that Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow itself, because unless you pay double the fee for their concierge service, your domains are not protected in anyway throughout the transaction. Now there's no doubt Escrow.com will do their best to track down and resolve any issues .. but in theory you could transfer the domain to the buyer, and he or she can claim they never received it! It's a huge flaw in their system and most certainly not in any way an air tight escrow .. specifically on the domainer side.

I honestly haven't looked at Escrow.com claims in much detail because they are right in that Epik isn't Escrow .. Epik's actually a better alternative that makes the need of having an escrow in the first place obsolete ... oh yeah .. and if your Epik account is tagged as a NamePros member .. the whole thing is free of charge if the buyer pays by wire!

 

[Rob Monster]

The problem I have with Escrow.com being upset at Epik (@Rob Monster), is that Epik actually isn't Escrow .. it's a better replacement to Escrow because the transactions are instant. So it's like an Escrow .. has all the markings of an escrow transaction .. but since the transaction is instant and the funds<>domain gets exchanged at the same time, then there really isn't any holding time, and thus it's not an Escrow much in the same way Zero isn't a number but most people call it a number anyways. So the actual need for "escrow" becomes obsolete by the very nature of it being instant.

Even worse .. is that Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow itself, because unless you pay double the fee for their concierge service, your domains are not protected in anyway throughout the transaction. Now there's no doubt Escrow.com will do their best to track down and resolve any issues .. but in theory you could transfer the domain to the buyer, and he or she can claim they never received it! It's a huge flaw in their system and most certainly not in any way an air tight escrow .. specifically on the domainer side.

I honestly haven't looked at Escrow.com claims in much detail because they are right in that Epik isn't Escrow .. Epik's actually a better alternative that makes the need of having an escrow in the first place obsolete ... oh yeah .. and if your Epik account is tagged as a NamePros member .. the whole thing is free of charge if the buyer pays by wire!

That is some wisdom right there. All that time @Ategy.com is not spending walking Steamie is working out to make him insanely articulate and concise too. What in the world is happening????

 

[Ted Twofoot]

dont understand that...

 

[Ategy]

That is some wisdom right there. All that time @Ategy.com is not spending walking Steamie is working out to make him insanely articulate and concise too. What in the world is happening????

Pretty sure I've always been insane and articulate .. not sure what "concise" is though? lol

First (minor) snowfall in Montreal today .. so Steamie wasn't too keen on a big walk .. thankfully I saw it coming and made sure we did a really big walk yesterday!

dont understand that...

You need to be more specific ... this thread has drifted quite a bit! lol

 

[Rob Monster]

dont understand that...

Inside joke. You would have to read a lot of @Ategy.com posts to connect those dots. Brew a big pot of coffee, read @Ategy.com recent posts, and before bedtime, it will all make sense. I realize that you are brand new here but it is like knowing the Secret handshake of the club to figure it out. Good to have you here, by the way.

 

[BrandableDomain]

Even worse .. is that Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow itself, because unless you pay double the fee for their concierge service, your domains are not protected in anyway throughout the transaction. Now there's no doubt Escrow.com will do their best to track down and resolve any issues .. but in theory you could transfer the domain to the buyer, and he or she can claim they never received it! It's a huge flaw in their system and most certainly not in any way an air tight escrow .. specifically on the domainer side.

You as the seller do not initiate transfer of a domain to the buyer until Escrow.com has notified you that they have received and are holding the payment funds from the buyer.

You send the authcode to the buyer via their email address which you obtain from Escrow.com. So you have an email trail that proves you sent the authcode to the buyer’s email address which they provided to Escrow.

You also notify Escrow that you have started or completed the transfer. (There is a sequence of steps that the buyer and the seller must take.)

You also have an email from your previous registrar proving that your transfer has been completed.

It is a very rigorous process to sign up to Escrow.com, you have to provide extensive and detailed proof of identity. It would be quite difficult to establish a false identity.

If the buyer claims not to have received your domain, Escrow will not refund their money (nor pay you) until a full investigation is made.

It shouldn’t be too hard for their investigators to find out who has possession of the domain.

There is no “huge flaw” in their system. They have processed more than $3,500,000,000 in transactions. They are the world leader, nobody comes close.

Here are details of their escrow licenses:

https://www.escrow.com/escrow-licenses

Why do you claim that “Escrow.com isn't even a real Escrow”?

 

[Business Brands]

How is it relevant to forever registrations?

 

[7363824]

The idea seems find on its face so long as its 1 an official option from the registry (which it is not) and is only an option and you can still opt for annual terms for domains that dont have long term need.

The problem with Epik offering this is to get it you are prepaying for ~50 years of renewals (at current registry cost) and trusting Epik to keep renewing it in perpetuity. Given price increases and the inevitability that at some point in time Epik will loose money on this. And who's to say that once Rob retires a future CEO decides to stop offering this because of the costs. I'll take paying my measly ~$10/yr to know for sure my domain stays good. Too much risk IMO otherwise without it being a registry level thing which I will guess will never happen, at least with verisign.

Not to mention, and yes this is kinda self serving, but no expiring domains will make domaining less appealing to new guys who dont have the deep pockets because once that sort of scarcity is introduced prices even domainer to domainer will skyrocket. It truly will become like digital real estate (price wise).

 

[Ategy]

The money actually isn't so much an issue as people think .. effectively at $392 ($400 - first year cost), they only need to make about 2.6% a year interest on the money for the renewals to effectively be paid by the interest alone. The math is definitely there to support such a plan unless there is a huge crash at the start with no significant re-correction for years. So sure it's possible .. but very unlikely. Even then, if the money of all such forever registrations are pooled together, it mitigates the effects of something like that having a significant effect.

 

[7363824]

The money actually isn't so much an issue as people think .. effectively at $392 ($400 - first year cost), they only need to make about 2.6% a year interest on the money for the renewals to effectively be paid by the interest alone. The math is definitely there to support such a plan unless there is a huge crash at the start with no significant re-correction for years. So sure it's possible .. but very unlikely. Even then, if the money of all such forever registrations are pooled together, it mitigates the effects of something like that having a significant effect.

Ya 2.6% until .com prices go up which now with the new contract they will almost certainly. The new contract allows verisign a 7% annual increase in the last 4 years of every 6 year term. I see no reason why cerigin wont go for the max price increases. Over time it will not be sustainable.