NameSilo

Valuing and Selling a Domain

Labeled as advice in Domain Selling and Domain Sales started by Jason Baudendistel, Sep 2, 2019.

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  1. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    I know that automated tools have a debatable level of accuracy. Does this include Nameworth? Supposedly they were created by domain investors. Any advice on selling my existing portfolio?
     
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  2. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Depending on the names (particularly brandables) no automated system can or will even come close to being accurate. All automated evaluators are great for looking for data and patterns .. and great on a macro level for comparing domains .. but the ultimate "value" number they spit out is usually way off.

    I personally use and pay for Estibot .. but that's because of all the data. I do look at the value they spit out .. but it's only one tiny part of my evaluation process.

    Exact match domains are a bit different .. but still not always obvious. Particularly if the domain will be used as a brand.

    Exact match domains were much more relevant many years ago when domain parking actually made significant money .. these days there effectively is no parking revenue for all but a tiny minority of domains (not worth even talking about)


    It doesn't matter .. the language and culture analysis involved in getting an algorithm large enough to get the true value of a brandable is so profoundly complex that we're many years away from the AI level of computing needed to even come close to getting accurate. If anything .. any service that claims to be accurate with brandables is a service that you should stay away from.


    That's a very broad question .. lol .. start by reading all the corners of namespros .. check out the blogs and podcasts .. read books about sales techniques .. etc etc

    In the end a lot depends on your specific domains .. don't want to burst your bubble .. but the super majority of people who come here and ask generically how to sell their domains usually don't really know much about domaining and almost always acquired domains that are ultimately unsellable.

    Without seeing your domains I can't say that's the case for you .. so I will simply wish you luck going forward! :)

    You might want to post some of your domains in the appraisals section to get a bit more specific feedback refined to your particular domains .. because each domain is generally unique in it's own way:
    https://www.namepros.com/forums/domain-appraisal.3/
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  3. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    Appreciate the feedback, will get to researching.
     
  4. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    In the interest of full disclosure some of my domains are not currently for sale but have a couple I would be open to parting with.

    Scienceisexplosive.com
    Sixypress.com
    420reason.com
     
  5. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    Yeah .. I don't really see any value in those. Before you acquire a domain always ask the question who do you think would want to buy the domain?

    The number one mistake of newcomers is the natural tendency to dream up of a potential idea of business for which the domain would be perfect for ... but unless that business actually exists .. and it's one with more than enough businesses that one would specifically want the domain at a significantly higher multiple than a generic $15 domain they could otherwise get at GoDaddy.

    For the most part you should focus on acquiring names that MANY EXISTING businesses would see as helping them distinguish themselves above their competition simply by using the domain. In this thread you'll find a lot of domains I acquired last year .. not all fit what I'm saying .. but most do ...
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/domains-you-won-at-auction-or-closeout.1050374/page-25

    That being said .. It is possible I've missed some significant meaning behind those names .. that's the good thing about domaining is that everyone can have their own niche .. it's particularly good if you buy domains in a business that you have a lot of insider knowledge of.


    Also .. remember that NamePros is a public forum for the most part .. and Google can index these pages .. some people don't mind discussions about their domains getting indexed .. but most others do. Basically if you write out your domains you can expect future buyers to find discussions about your domains here because most will google their names as they try to come up with a potential new brand for themselves.

    I personally break up my domains and make them harder to find by writing them like:
    Scienceisexplosive // dot // com
    Sixypress // dot // com
    420reason // dot // com

    Other people break up the words as well.

    To make them easier to read I also recommend you CamelCase them .. you'll find you'll end up having more people give you feedback if it's easier to read your domains:

    ie: ScienceIsExplosive, 420Reason, MilliVanilli, etc


    You have up to 30 minutes from the time you posted to edit your post .. after that it pretty much stays forever .. @NamePros has very strict standards about not editing anything after 30 minutes (you have about 15 minutes left to edit your post above .. go go go .. lol).
     
  6. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    Appreciate the feedback, one was a publishing platform domain that the software never got completed, Sixypress, I see a media opportunity with the other two but will admit they aren't going to sell for some huge amount. Not worried about them being visible.
     
  7. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Top Member VIP

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    Hi Jason. Yes I can see by the registration dates your just a month or two into your domain experimentations. I just want to second what Atergy has clarified.

    By all means brain-storm domains BUT, do the wording around existing business types and existing commercial requirements. Do stick with business or industries that you are familiar with if that's possible.

    My advice is to work with pen and paper, initially. Not the computer screen (turn it off). If you can draw up a list of maybe a hundred of reasonable two word domains (or very short brandable) and find ALL of them taken then your on the right track.

    Now make that list a several hundred examples long. IF your lucky and find only one or two available - Take them. IF however you find loads available your on the wrong track.

    Yes it will take days, maybe even weeks of thought - but that's exactly where the effort equals reward part comes in.

    *Doing the 'concentrated thought' process away from the computer screen will save you from all sorts of unfathomable alternatives (and minor domain extensions) that may seem tempting when your only a click away - NOT GOOD. The mind really does work better when you take away all the distractions and concentrate with pen and paper
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  8. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    Appreciate the feedback. I think the only two Domains I have with any age are currently not for sale. Wibbets.com and Basketballrehab.com
     
  9. NameBuyer.com

    NameBuyer.com Member PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi Ategy,

    Jason was asking specifically about NameWorth, which unless you give a detailed comparison, is not fair to dismiss.

    I've built the system to evaluate domains the same way I would as a domain investor with over 15 years of experience and I've personally checked over 100,000 results out of the tool. I use it daily on my 7,000+ domain portfolio in buying and selling. During the daily newsletter creation, magically, the domains that it values with top ratings usually have bids into the $100s or $1,000s hours before the auctions close.

    If you have good or great domains, that are of value, then it does a better job than any other automated system in existence which can be seen in the example below.

    For CBDOil.com, it sold for $500k earlier this year. Below are the comparisons of each service at the time of the sale.

    NameWorth: $250k
    GoDaddy: $16,415
    Estibot: $790

    As of today, without any sales data input, NameWorth shows the value at $600k as the trend continues to grow.

    upload_2019-9-3_16-1-46.png

    Over the summer, I've personally used NameWorth to revalue 1/3 of the domains I own and this month was one of my largest so far at $29.1k. Had I not repriced the domains, my sales for those same domains this month would have been $11.8k, and that was using my 15+ years of experience. Sometimes not having a human bias is beneficial.

    Here are a couple more Estibot examples using the domains I sold recently.

    1st domain (.com brandable)
    • Sale Price: $15,000
    • NameWorth: $9,450
    • Estibot: $70
    2nd domain (.com brandable or acronym)
    • Sale Price: $7,450
    • NameWorth: $9,450
    • Estibot: $170
    Let's see, $240 vs $22.4k? Hmm...I think I'd want to use NameWorth even if I didn't create it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    NameWorth is still new (6 months), but the more information it is given, the more accurate it is becoming each month. Though version 2.0 has been delayed, once that comes out, the level of accuracy in filtering out bad names will be much higher. But for being fairly new, the fact that we are having appraisals that are at times up to 316X more accurate than competitors is a pretty good start.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2019
  10. Ategy.com

    Ategy.com NameCult.com Gold Account VIP

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    In all fairness .. his original post was a little ambiguous and could have been interpreted as asking in general or only nameworth. Looking at it again I see how it could easily mean he was asking specifically about NameWorth.

    100% full disclosure .. I have never used Nameworth specifically and I want to be clear that my comments were made in regards to automated valuaters in general and how I really don't think they can be accurate with an actual value number when looked at on an average set of random 2019 domains.

    That being said .. there's unfortunately no way to convince me otherwise with a small handful of domains.

    I actually use @estibot.com (@Luc, @Ivan Rasskazov) .. but I'll be the first to say that it's not because I care much about the final valuation number it spits out. I mainly use it for the rest of the stats. Admittedly less and less as I improve as a domainer .. but I generally have a little over 500 domains on my "first round" from about the 50,000 expiring domains going to auction at GD each day. When you have 500-600 names in a list each day (after going though significantly more just to filter down to those 500), then having those stats help you find a few good domains you might have otherwise missed. If I was only checking 5 domains a day then I wouldn't bother as I'd have the time to look into the merits of those domains myself.

    Where I do actually use the valuation number is when it shows a 0 when I think it's a good domain .. which is almost always due to a small typo I didn't notice (Estibot has saved me from buying several misspells because of that). The other side is true as well .. if I see a much higher number than expected then I'll look into and research the domain .. I'll often (not always) find something to justify it being a domain to keep an eye on (although I still don't otherwise really take much significance in the actual specific valuation price .. it was simply the deviation from what I expected that alerted me to check it further (which in itself is a good thing).

    I use the maximum 500 look-ups a day (600 would have been perfect .. lol) mainly to go through my daily lists for NameCult .. so unfortunately there isn't really a plan at NameWorth for me to consider.

    Does NameWorth service spit out other analytics/stats aside from final valuation price? (I strongly suggest you put of a few pics/vids of sample output .. I know I'd be more willing to consider such a service if it was a bit clearer what exactly I'd be getting).

    All the negativity aside, I do wish you, Estibot and the others nothing but success! :)
     
  11. Ivan Rasskazov

    Ivan Rasskazov Member Estibot.com domainIQ Gold Account

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    I'm always a bit torn as to how much to weigh into these discussions, partly because of my own personal conviction that it's up to the markets to figure out the end use of a good, or service. Not to mention that EstiBot is an entire suite of tools. I will just make this post. People forget that domains are an emerging, illiquid market. Effectively, the amount of sales that occur every year is what some investment asset classes do in mere minutes every day. That's perfectly fine because that means there is room to grow. Having said that, growth is complex. It requires discussions, valuation models, ability to hedge risk, and many other market mechanisms. Domain valuations in general are not meant to be Gospel, but rather as a starting point of a conversation. Nothing scares an investor or a buyer more than the unknown, as we can see from many a financial crisis (Argentina being latest in a long line). However, having a statistically derived valuation point gives you something to analyze and break down. You don't have to agree with it. Analysts that value stocks may have multiple models to value a stock and they can all disagree, and yet exist in the market ecosystem. That's the beauty of what the markets are. However, what EstiBot (and others I'm sure) are designed to do is to prevent the "well I feel like this is worth" type of conversation. Feelings are subjective. They are not derived from facts. Usually when I hear an expert disagree with a valuation, they can draw their case by using actual data. Having a conversation with a buyer or seller using a well reasoned, factual case is perfectly fine. What's not fine is using "feelings" to low ball a seller (for example). That may help generate short term revenue for some, but it doesn't help the industry in the long run because people get angry and they don't come back. Instead, they support efforts to make it difficult for our industry to exist.

    Second, in order for a market to develop, one has to be able to conduct large scale portfolio transactions on a regular basis. If an asset manager comes to you and asks if it's worth investing a billion dollars into a domain portfolio, they will not have time for you to sit there for 3 months and value each of possibly tens of thousands domain by hand. That's not realistic. You should be able to value a portfolio and articulate the statistical strength and weakness of that valuation reasonably quickly. This is very important because if the domain investment industry can attract asset managers, then the rising tide will lift all boats by widening the customer base well beyond fellow domainers and an occasional business that needs a name.

    Just my semi-brief two cents.
     
  12. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    Huge fan of Nameworth myself but agree my original post may have been unclear. When researching something to purchase you can't just go off of an automated valuation but knowing the value as a guidepoint, the data and market potential bear greater weight.
     
  13. Jason Baudendistel

    Jason Baudendistel CEO Wibbets Inc Blue Account

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    Love the site personally, great work.
     
  14. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    yes, they are all debatable, because no automated tool is accurate to the dollar.
    and that's where the argument starts and the premises of "if" and "then", begin.

    anybody who buys domains, can call themselves a domain investor, including you.

    imo....
     

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