"The" VP Debate thread.

[-db-]

To those who wonder why we don't like political threads here at NP, I wish I could show you the number of emails and messages I've received lately from members who are upset about it. Very few topics bring out emotions in the way politics does. Very few topics create such a divide amongst members. Heck, even me... if I posted my own personal feelings about this election and the parties involved... it would almost surely cause hard feelings among people I consider friends. Anyway...

This will be the one-and-only (OFFICIAL) thread on tonight's VP debate. Post away and enjoy it.

 

[dgridley]

First of all, Barack is NOT a Muslim and has repeatedly said so.

Second, I can recall when this country had misgivings about electing JFK because he was "gasp" a Catholic.

Third, this same kind of fear mongering about the Jews is what allowed Hitler to rise to power.

Just some things to think about.

Let's get back to discussing the potential VP's and the debate..

 

[.X.]

First of all, Barack is NOT a Muslim and has repeatedly said so.

Second, I can recall when this country had misgivings about electing JFK because he was "gasp" a Catholic.

Third, this same kind of fear mongering about the Jews is what allowed Hitler to rise to power.

Just some things to think about.

Let's get back to discussing the potential VP's and the debate..

I disagree Dave.

Comparing a Catholic or Jewish to a Muslim, Is just to far off base, Imo.

The Muslim religion is no where close, you can not just denounce your religion, if you are a Muslim, the only reason the Muslim people hate us is because, well, basically we stay in their business, they want to live their lives under their religious beliefs, we will not allow that.

Just as we have givin Israel nuclear capabilities against Pakistan, and we think we can resolve their dispute, which has been going on for over 100 years in one form or the other. We can't, and i believe we will never will.

I do not oppose us giving nuclear weapons to Israel, they are Jewish, Surrounded by Muslims of the middle east.

I think the raw questions is, Do we really belong in the middle east, other than to solely capture Bin Laden???????????

I don't believe we do, They live a certain life, a life according to the Muslim religion, that is their life, we should leave them be and let them live their lives the way they have for hundreds of years.

No one is saying obsolete, that Obama is Muslim, Clearly Obama's child hood heritage was Muslim, there is no doubt that Obama has practiced the Muslim religion, Can we agree on that much?

As for the VP debate, Biden sat Palin down several times during the debate, Imo

 

[Ixix]

I disagree Dave.

Comparing a Catholic or Jewish to a Muslim, Is just to far off base, Imo.

The Muslim religion is no where close, you can not just denounce your religion, if you are a Muslim, the only reason the Muslim people hate us is because, well, basically we stay in their business, they want to live their lives under their religious beliefs, we will not allow that.

Just as we have givin Israel nuclear capabilities against Pakistan, and we think we can resolve their dispute, which has been going on for over 100 years in one form or the other. We can't, and i believe we will never will.

I do not oppose us giving nuclear weapons to Israel, they are Jewish, Surrounded by Muslims of the middle east.

I think the raw questions is, Do we really belong in the middle east, other than to solely capture Bin Laden???????????

I don't believe we do, They live a certain life, a life according to the Muslim religion, that is their life, we should leave them be and let them live their lives the way they have for hundreds of years.

No one is saying obsolete, that Obama is Muslim, Clearly Obama's child hood heritage was Muslim, there is no doubt that Obama has practiced the Muslim religion, Can we agree on that much?

As for the VP debate, Biden sat Palin down several times during the debate, Imo

how many muslims can we kill to make you happy? you have NO idea how many muslims you come across everyday and you have NO idea how many muslims live in the united states and feel alienated from this country because of people making ignorant statements and have no clue about the religon (except what they hear on tv...or their preachers)

you also have no idea how much hatred is projected at the muslims here in the united states. maybe you've chosen to remain ignorant about muslims, american muslims, and islam because it helps you sleep better at night, or makes you feel better about your own personal/religious beliefs....and if thats the case i hope you sleep tight.....

sorry for sounding pissed....but if you seriously have no clue....and frankly the amount of anti-islamic talk that is allowed and encouraged is astounding to me.

ok, X...
what is this horrible islamic lifestyle that you find so offensive...educate me...tell me what is so horrible about the american muslims that you are willing to exclude their interests from the system?

my god, some of you guys really amaze me....if this was 60 so years ago, i bet you guys would have been pro segregation...

 

[.X.]

how many muslims can we kill to make you happy? you have NO idea how many muslims you come across everyday and you have NO idea how many muslims live in the united states and feel alienated from this country because of people making ignorant that have no clue about the religon (except what they hear on tv...or their preachers)

you also have no idea how much hatred is projected at the muslims here in the united states. maybe you've chosen to remain ignorant about muslims, american muslims, and islam because it helps you sleep better at night, or makes you feel better about your own personal/religious beliefs....and if thats the case i hope you sleep tight.....

sorry for sounding pissed....but if you seriously have no clue....

I can understand your frustration, perhaps you may have taken some of what i said in a wrong way, I dunno.

I don't want to see any Muslims killed, I want us to get out of the middle eastern countries, So they can live their lives and practice their religion as they have for hundreds of years, with out having hate towards to the US, for interfering in their lives.

I probably have ignorance about the Muslim religion, because i do not practice it, I am Baptist, I do not expect you to know my religion inside and out.

What i do know is, we are spending 8 million dollars a day in Iraq right now, and for what? So the Iraqi people can have a democracy? Not gonna happen, If it did, Iran or another middle eastern country would attack and take over Iraq.

It would be the same as Iraq attacking the US, and their soldiers coming to my town and telling me, exactly how i am going to live, there would be a huge ass fight with resistance.

I do not HATE, that is one thing i do not do. I do not wish any harm on any religion, I respect all religions, I may not agree with them, but i still respect them.

 

[Ixix]

one more thing....

if you listen to a clip of terrorist's rhetoric along with Bush + neocon rethoric of the last 8 years....i swear the messages are the same....both messages are fanatical, intolerant, and extremist........

i am weary of a McCain/Palin presidency because their message no different than Bush...

 

[.X.]

one more thing....

if you listen to a clip of terrorist's rhetoric along with Bush + neocon rethoric of the last 8 years....i swear the messages are the same....both messages are fanatical, intolerant, and extremist........

i am weary of a McCain/Palin presidency because their message no different than Bush...

My question is this, have we been fighting terrorist's, or have we been fighting pissed off Iraqis because we are disputing their lifestyle and tampering with their religion?

Our fight was never in Iraq, It was in Afghanistan and most likely in Pakistan, where the terrorist's were found to be most prominent.

We have now more or less funded out our military in Iraq.

 

[Ixix]

I can understand your frustration, perhaps you may have taken some of what i said in a wrong way, I dunno.

I don't want to see any Muslims killed, I want us to get out of the middle eastern countries, So they can live their lives and practice their religion as they have for hundreds of years, with out having hate towards to the US, for interfering in their lives.

I probably have ignorance about the Muslim religion, because i do not practice it, I am Baptist, I do not expect you to know my religion inside and out.

What i do know is, we are spending 8 million dollars a day in Iraq right now, and for what? So the Iraqi people can have a democracy? Not gonna happen, If it did, Iran or another middle eastern country would attack and take over Iraq.

It would be the same as Iraq attacking the US, and their soldiers coming to my town and telling me, exactly how i am going to live, there would be a huge ass fight with resistance.

I do not HATE, that is one thing i do not do. I do not wish any harm on any religion, I respect all religions, I may not agree with them, but i still respect them.

That's the thing, people make judgments w/out understanding the religon, history, and culture of the society they invade.

My step mother was baptist, so i am aware of baptist. I am also knowledgeable on Catholicism because I was taught in a private catholic school in Lebanon when i was a young girl.

I grew up in Lebanon during a civil war. There were children of different faiths around me, and for some reason, as kids, we some how got along and accepted one another despite religious differences.

When a man beats a woman, or robs a store...it is his lack of faith and religon that causes him to sin.....not the religon telling him to do so.

 

[.X.]

That's the thing, people make judgments w/out understanding the religon, history, and culture of the society they invade.

My step mother was baptist, so i am aware of baptist. I am also knowledgeable on Catholicism because I was taught in a private catholic school in Lebanon when i was a young girl.

I grew up in Lebanon during a civil war. There were children of different faiths around me, and for some reason, as kids, we some how got along and accepted one another despite religious differences.

When a man beats a woman, or robs a store...it is his lack of faith and religon that causes him to sin.....not the religon telling him to do so.

I think what you are seeing is, Americans not being particularly fond of Muslims in general. And that would not be the case, If Muslims had not hijacked our aircraft and ran them into the World Trade Center Buildings. Thus saying Allah called for this action, And then hearing Muslims say on live TV, that what Allah says, is done.

 

[Ixix]

My question is this, have we been fighting terrorist's, or have we been fighting pissed off Iraqis because we are disputing their lifestyle and tampering with their religion?

Our fight was never in Iraq, It was in Afghanistan and most likely in Pakistan, where the terrorist's were found to be most prominent.

We have now more or less funded out our military in Iraq.

IMO,

when saddam was removed, anarchy issued.
The Iraqis were probably happy at first when saddam was removed. but then got pissed when the US forces allowed anarchy to prevail, the US forces didn't plan a way to keep the Iraqi citizen safe from the different factions, and when innocent fathers, mothers, and children were killed.

are we tampering with there religion? and do we have a right to do so?

you know, i keep hearing that people would fight to defend this country....how far would you go to fight for it. if this country was invaded by a super power (after the economic melt down....there might be more super powers emerging) how far would you go to fight for the land you live in? if a foreign occupying force came and rewrote the constitution in the style of their beliefs/religion, what would you do?

As for Islam and Muslims...Islam specifically teaches to fight extremism in (the Islamic) religion. If you look at the teachings, the religions says that Extremist factions will arise from time to time like cults and that they need to be eliminated when they do....and they will continue to come up untill the coming of the Anti-Christ...

The problem is that Islam is being removed from the middle east, so when these extremists emerge, there is nobody there to fight them.

perhaps it was Saddam who kept the extremists in there place....and when he was taken out, nobody was there to keep them in their place.

 

[.X.]

IMO,

when saddam was removed, anarchy issued.
The Iraqis were probably happy at first when saddam was removed. but then got pissed when the US forces allowed anarchy to prevail, the US forces didn't plan a way to keep the Iraqi citizen safe from the different factions, and when innocent fathers, mothers, and children were killed.

are we tampering with there religion? and do we have a right to do so?

you know, i keep hearing that people would fight to defend this country....how far would you go to fight for it. if this country was invaded by a super power (after the economic melt down....there might be more super powers emerging) how far would you go to fight for the land you live in? if a foreign occupying force came and rewrote the constitution in the style of their beliefs/religion, what would you do?

As for Islam and Muslims...Islam specifically teaches to fight extremism in (the Islamic) religion. If you look at the teachings, the religions says that Extremist factions will arise from time to time like cults and that they need to be eliminated when they do....and they will continue to come up untill the coming of the Anti-Christ...

The problem is that Islam is being removed from the middle east, so when these extremists emerge, there is nobody there to fight them.

perhaps it was Saddam who kept the extremists in there place....and when he was taken out, nobody was there to keep them in their place.

I don't ever see another country invading the US, If it came to that point, I would expect we would release Nuclear Missiles, and that would be the end, or could be the end of the of the world.

The part you wrote about "innocent fathers, mothers, and children were killed"

I think you are right on Que with that. and well said, Imo

It is amazing how well children of all different races, nationalities can get along so well, but once grown up, we can not get along, It amazes me.

 

[Broker]

All you have to do is look at McCains voting record, his plans for the middle class on his website? Still just a gas tax? All he cares about is big business and continuing on with Bush's policies and look where we are at. I dont think I'll be voting for McCain in a million life times! Not to mention Palin, a complete airhead who knows nothing and is way out of her league. McCain screwed up bad there!

 

[nicedomains]

edit -----> :yell:

 

[Jeff]

McCain chunked it because at any time that he might have been a "maverick", he ended up flip flopping back to support Bush ... and this support and strong allegiance with the seriously failed policies of Bush - and his admitted lack of knowledge with economic issues (the major issues facing the country today, obviously) - is what is killing him in the polls (and the spread is widening daily!), IMHO. The final nail in the coffin was his immature gamble with an extreme, inexperienced Palin ... which, in the end, squarely proved his lack of sound judgement (even to most Republicans)! :o :red:
I'm sure that McCain/Palin will now go on a last ditch negative attack offensive effort against Obama, but ... in the end ... it will all look and go down in the history books as being as desperate as Palin was in even trying to answer some very basic questions with Katie Couric, IMHO.

Well done, Mr's. #1 Obama/Biden! :tu:
-Jeff

 

[DebX420]

First of all..... Barack Hussein Obama

1.How in the HELL did you get this approved?

2nd.. What's fair is faIr, so let me speak this time.

I am a United States citizen and will send my only begotten son as well as myself right now if needed to fight & possibly die to protect my country.

If not, I AM ARMED AND DANGEROUS....TRUST ME.

Straight to the point: Hillary Clinton was my favorite. If Bill Clinton hadn't been cought gettin his wick dipped he would have gone down in the history books as 1 of the best presidents ever "DEBT FREE'. IMO

2. What in the hell are the United States citizens Thinking? Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim with a muslim heritage.

3. DO NOT EVER VOTE FOR A PERSON THAT HAS A MUSLIM HERITAGE AS THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT IF YOU LOVE OR CARE ABOUT THE UNITED STATES.

4. I HAVE HAD MUSLIMS FROM THIS VERY FORUM TELL ME THAT THEY KNOW OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER MUSLIMS HOPING HE WINS.

5. IF Barack Hussein Obama BECOMES PRESIDENT, THE UNITED STATES WILL FALL ... AS IN IT WILL CRUMBLE.

6. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR Barack Hussein Obama because he is a good talker and good looking.

7. When Barack Hussein Obama talks his harvard educaTion shines BUT ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR Barack Hussein Obama.

8. PLEASE VOTE FOR McCain.......THE ONLY ONE RUNNING THAT HAS ACTUALLY FOUGHT FOR THE UNITED STATES IN A WAR.

9. DO WHAT IS RIGHT. PROTECT AMERICA AND OUR FUTURE, VOTE McCain

It's stupid, old, SCARED, white Americans like you that make the rest of us look like bumbling idiots.

Obama has more credentials than McCain and Palin combined, this isn't even counting Biden!

Obama is the change America has been needing, and let's pray to God he gets in...

McCain - 4 more years of Bush - do we really want this?

Obama Prez08

 

[Jasonn]

First of all..... Barack Hussein Obama

1.How in the HELL did you get this approved?

2nd.. What's fair is faIr, so let me speak this time.

I am a United States citizen and will send my only begotten son as well as myself right now if needed to fight & possibly die to protect my country.

If not, I AM ARMED AND DANGEROUS....TRUST ME.

Straight to the point: Hillary Clinton was my favorite. If Bill Clinton hadn't been cought gettin his wick dipped he would have gone down in the history books as 1 of the best presidents ever "DEBT FREE'. IMO

2. What in the hell are the United States citizens Thinking? Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim with a muslim heritage.

3. DO NOT EVER VOTE FOR A PERSON THAT HAS A MUSLIM HERITAGE AS THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENT IF YOU LOVE OR CARE ABOUT THE UNITED STATES.

4. I HAVE HAD MUSLIMS FROM THIS VERY FORUM TELL ME THAT THEY KNOW OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER MUSLIMS HOPING HE WINS.

5. IF Barack Hussein Obama BECOMES PRESIDENT, THE UNITED STATES WILL FALL ... AS IN IT WILL CRUMBLE.

6. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR Barack Hussein Obama because he is a good talker and good looking.

7. When Barack Hussein Obama talks his harvard educaTion shines BUT ONCE AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT VOTE FOR Barack Hussein Obama.

8. PLEASE VOTE FOR McCain.......THE ONLY ONE RUNNING THAT HAS ACTUALLY FOUGHT FOR THE UNITED STATES IN A WAR.

9. DO WHAT IS RIGHT. PROTECT AMERICA AND OUR FUTURE, VOTE McCain

You are so ignorant its sad.

 

[Domainace]

Obama is a machine politician from Chicago.

Far from changing anything, he was rock solid in supporting the well-established corrupt machine and fighting against reformers. His house was half paid for by a convicted gangster, and he is the largest congressional recipient of funds from Fannie and Freddie.

He was rewarded because he used his community organizing to threaten banks (block them from building branches) unless they lent to unqualified buyers. This was part of the plan to help everyone buy a house, whether they could afford it or not, and was the biggest cause of our current economic mess.

In that sense, he has done far more in his short political career than most politicians, except that all of it is bad.

Do I like McCain? No. But he's better than someone who has absolutely no values or policies that do anything except increase his own status.

I am astounded again and again by this. He reminds me of Willy Brown, a generally nasty character who could turn the charm on and off like a faucet. I was his regular waiter - so I got to see how he treated nobodies. He treated the waiters like slaves. He was surly and petulant. And of course, a virtual non-tipper. Yet, one day, a large group of young, white college students came in to work on his campaign. Willie just turned on the charm - since they were working to line his pockets. Of course, they thought he was they great liberal crusader.

I continue to be astounded that otherwise smart and well-meaning people can go so far off-track.

People see what they want to see, and Obama plays that card pretty well. He is nothing he claims to be, and even a cursory look at the record makes that plain.

Either way, I have exactly zero assets in America - and it will stay that way until things hit bottom, which is a ways off but coming along faster every day, whoever is president. I'm looking forward to buying a cheap retirement home in San Diego. That is, assuming the world doesn't break out in massive war, something that tends to happen when economies crash.

 

[Jasonn]

I think what you are seeing is, Americans not being particularly fond of Muslims in general. And that would not be the case, If Muslims had not hijacked our aircraft and ran them into the World Trade Center Buildings. Thus saying Allah called for this action, And then hearing Muslims say on live TV, that what Allah says, is done.

I guess we should all hate Baptists because of the few that bombed abortion clinics years back. Keep in mind that the few doesn't represent the whole.

 

[.X.]

It's stupid, old, SCARED, white Americans like you that make the rest of us look like bumbling idiots.

Obama has more credentials than McCain and Palin combined, this isn't even counting Biden!

Obama is the change America has been needing, and let's pray to God he gets in...

McCain - 4 more years of Bush - do we really want this?

Obama Prez08

Stupid , Old, Scared, MFers like me, know what Obama can do to our country.


How you can write that Obama has more credentials than McCain is baffling.

I do not support either party in this election, Because no, I do not want four more years of Bush, But i do not want an inexperienced Obama either. So i am out.

There is no racial barrier for me, as to weather i would vote for Obama or not.

However, His Muslim up bringing and Muslim Heritage does scare the hell out of me.

Dave never answered me on this : No one is saying obsolete, that Obama is Muslim, Clearly Obama's child hood heritage was Muslim, there is no doubt that Obama has practiced the Muslim religion, Can we agree on that much?

Any one else have opinion to this ^^^ ?????????

 

[Ixix]

Stupid , Old, Scared, MFers like me, know what Obama can do to our country.


How you can write that Obama has more credentials than McCain is baffling.

I do not support either party in this election, Because no, I do not want four more years of Bush, But i do not want an inexperienced Obama either. So i am out.

There is no racial barrier for me, as to weather i would vote for Obama or not.

However, His Muslim up bringing and Muslim Heritage does scare the hell out of me.

Dave never answered me on this : No one is saying obsolete, that Obama is Muslim, Clearly Obama's child hood heritage was Muslim, there is no doubt that Obama has practiced the Muslim religion, Can we agree on that much?

Any one else have opinion to this ^^^ ?????????

Oh please, please tell me why his muslim upbringing scares you. and tell me what is so wrong with practicing the muslim religion.

tell me what scares you about the muslim americans? what have they done to you? what crimes have they committed against you?

I don't ever see another country invading the US, If it came to that point, I would expect we would release Nuclear Missiles, and that would be the end, or could be the end of the of the world.

are you sure about that? 19 people not associated with any formal government were able to turn this country inside and out. look at the power 19 individuals had in attacking this country? war isn't always annonced. look at pearl harbor? what kind of warning did we get?

The part you wrote about "innocent fathers, mothers, and children were killed" .I think you are right on Que with that. and well said, Imo

Back when the war in Iraq was getting heavy, i'd watch the news on Al-Jazeera...and while i didn't really understand the news anchor, cuz i don't understand modern standard arabic (what's spoken on the news channels) i'd see the images.

I remember seeing a mother crying and holding her dead child in her arms asking why this was happening to them? what did they do to the US?

I remember my dad making a comment saying that 'they shouldn't be so emotional'. but how can you NOT get emotional? you're holding the body of your dead child in your arms. How could someone not go crazy with pain and grief????

 

[nicedomains]

Obama is a machine politician from Chicago.

Far from changing anything, he was rock solid in supporting the well-established corrupt machine and fighting against reformers. His house was half paid for by a convicted gangster, and he is the largest congressional recipient of funds from Fannie and Freddie.

He was rewarded because he used his community organizing to threaten banks (block them from building branches) unless they lent to unqualified buyers. This was part of the plan to help everyone buy a house, whether they could afford it or not, and was the biggest cause of our current economic mess.

In that sense, he has done far more in his short political career than most politicians, except that all of it is bad.

Do I like McCain? No. But he's better than someone who has absolutely no values or policies that do anything except increase his own status.

I am astounded again and again by this. He reminds me of Willy Brown, a generally nasty character who could turn the charm on and off like a faucet. I was his regular waiter - so I got to see how he treated nobodies. He treated the waiters like slaves. He was surly and petulant. And of course, a virtual non-tipper. Yet, one day, a large group of young, white college students came in to work on his campaign. Willie just turned on the charm - since they were working to line his pockets. Of course, they thought he was they great liberal crusader.

I continue to be astounded that otherwise smart and well-meaning people can go so far off-track.

People see what they want to see, and Obama plays that card pretty well. He is nothing he claims to be, and even a cursory look at the record makes that plain.

Either way, I have exactly zero assets in America - and it will stay that way until things hit bottom, which is a ways off but coming along faster every day, whoever is president. I'm looking forward to buying a cheap retirement home in San Diego. That is, assuming the world doesn't break out in massive war, something that tends to happen when economies crash.

One of the most interesting posts I have read in all of the political threads. Thanks domainace! And I am an Obama supporter. Well supporter is a stretch, I didn't donate or campaign for him or anything like that. Even after reading this, and assuming it's mostly true I will still be voting for him. I just trust him more than McCain. Obama is far more intelligent than both McCain/Palin and we all know McCain is bought and paid for by big oil. I don't "trust" any politicians besides maybe Ron Paul or Nader but I can only see tougher times for U.S. if the Republicans stay in control of the White House. My .02.......