The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[JB Lions]

479 page tax bill that they're still making handwritten edits to.

Analysis: More than 6,000 lobbyists have worked on taxes in 2017
"There are just under 11,000 active lobbyists in the nation's capital, according to data compiled by the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP), and more than half of them — 6,243 — have reported working on taxes this year, according to the report, which relies on CRP data.

Spread out over Capitol Hill, that means there are more than 11 lobbyists working on taxes for every member of Congress."
http://thehill.com/business-a-lobby...lysis-more-than-6000-lobbyists-have-worked-on

JUST IN: Last-minute GOP tax bill amendment would only benefit DeVos-linked conservative college
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/...y-over-proposed-college-provision-in-tax-plan




https://twitter.com/SenatorTester/status/936748480000921600
I was just handed a 479-page tax bill a few hours before the vote. One page literally has hand scribbled policy changes on it that can’t be read. This is Washington, D.C. at its worst. Montanans deserve so much better.
Senator Jon Tester‏Verified account @SenatorTester

 

[JB Lions]

So, here we go. 1:36 in the morning Eastern. 2 minutes of debate, then vote.

Passed 51-49. Shameful. Republicans are going to get run out in 2018.

 

[offthehandle]

Analysis: More than 6,000 lobbyists have worked on taxes in 2017

F the lobbyists, this is why the entire swamp is what it is. Special interests. This I posted something earlier in this thread that like most all laws passed and the rapid exchange of information available there is no reason why people should not know ahead of time what is being voted on. I see you, and others put in bits and pieces you grab here and there, which I find interesting, but why isn't the entire thing available for public review and commentary? I know, I know, it's tradition, it's the way it's always been done and too complicated for the pea-brain public, so we just leave it up to the reps and senate to do their job.

No agency presents these laws in plain english, since they are written by lawyers. Purposely to be like reading an insurance contract or TOS of any corp. The news does not report anything but sound bites, most people really don't care and are apathetic and details are never given to the people, they just pass laws without consulting voters, the sheep we the populace are.

Did you see one website that broke down the entire mess? I sure would like to know where it is.

I don't get the reason for deadline other than scoring political "points", the tax code has been overly complicated for decades, and now a couple months? I don't see this as anything but a band-aid. I sure hope I am wrong.

 

[JB Lions]

Adding and editing in things at the last minute. Lobbyists know what's in it, the people voting on it don't. It should be online for all to read.

It's trickle down bullshit, does not work. What works is if people have more money, they tend to spend it (trickle up), that stimulates the economy. Not complicated.

The con man Trump (and Republicans) just made himself richer, while fucking over the people that voted for him. These people will still defend him to death. Just amazing to watch, how clueless some people can be.

Now some trickle down gifs

 

[offthehandle]

It's trickle down bullsh*t, does not work. What works is if people have more money, they tend to spend it (trickle up), that stimulates the economy. Not complicated.

Well instead of trickling down, when the "wall" (berlin) was pushed/fell down in 89', I was out of a job, out of an industry, and never ask for a dime. Best thing that happened was becoming self employed. All I wanted was an economy to thrive, and all 90's was a struggle and the only one period that was great was 10 years later with the dot com boom and was positioned online to be able to market where the large corps were not prepared.

I do have to think that investment by some during those 10 years had to do with people spending money (trickling down) on R&D and creating things that created real jobs, meanwhile since 89' the states have loss of manufacturing- and like Clinton giving away the West coast port to Cosco (china overseas shipping co) control, doomed the manufacturing to cheap imports and enrichen Walmart. That and NAFTA.

 

[Garen Arnold]

Seriously, does anyone care about Trump and his Twitter?

Articles like this about Trump and Twitter are not newsworthy. Seriously, stop making news about Trump and Twitter!!!!

We are teaching our kids that it's okay to call people names on social media. All the crap that's going on in the world unnamed calling between the United States and North KoreaIs ridiculous. World going to be living in a cave over some silly stuff. Nukes and shooting them off. C'mon man!

End of rant.

 

[enlytend]

So, here we go. 1:36 in the morning Eastern. 2 minutes of debate, then vote.

Passed 51-49. Shameful. Republicans are going to get run out in 2018.

Did you see one website that broke down the entire mess? I sure would like to know where it is.

Not yet that I've seen, because they got this 500 page document with handwritten scribbles just hours before the vote. Democrats got it first from lobbyists, not even official channels. One of our senators was reading it live on facebook, but I doubt he got through it all, unless he's still awake and reading.

I do know of two small improvements that were in the amendments:
- Collins got in an amendment to reinclude property tax deductions, although with a 10k cap.This was in the original house version.
- Something that helps pass through business entities was added, I think a percentage equal to the corporate one? But I'm not sure of the details..

However they voted down a direct middle income tax cut and provisions to minimize impact on the the deficit.

And don't give me any of this "oh the deficit will always have to increase" crap. If democrats tried to put through a budget that increased the deficit half as much as this one will, the same republicans would be screaming until they were blue in the face. Raising the deficit is a slap in the face of fiscal conservatism. Any other interpretation is bullsh*t.

The hurry?
1 Threats from donors if they didn't pass something (other than wind - they've been passing a lot of that!)
2 They know the party is almost over. Once dump gets dumped, the odds of them being able to get anything on their agendas through will dwindle.

Here's another little goodie which pays back a couple of their donors:
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-ca...kstone-ceo-gop-donor-schwarzman-2622738?amp=1

The provision to sell off over a million acres and start drilling in the arctic wildlife refuge is just sad .

Hawaii is testing its civil defense sirens for the first time since the Cold War. Exactly what good would that do anyway? Let them know they have about 15 minutes to gather their loved ones, bend over and kiss their asses goodbye? If nukes are incoming they're screwed.

 

[Kate]

We are teaching our kids that it's okay to call people names on social media. All the crap that's going on in the world unnamed calling between the United States and North KoreaIs ridiculous.

Speaking of which, can the man lashing out at the wrong Theresa May on Twitter be trusted to nuke the right Korea ?
This is a genuine diplomatic incident, and it is something significant when it happens between two countries as close as the UK and the US.
45 is clearly an expert at burning bridges, unfortunately he still doesn't understand his job requires the exact opposite: building bridges, mending relationships.
If only he could tweet less and think more.

 

[mr-x]

1) If you read it on twitter.. it must be true.

2) 100% of scientist agree, life begins at conception.

3) Tax cuts should be called pay raises.

 

[mr-x]

Seriously, does anyone care about Trump and his Twitter?

Articles like this about Trump and Twitter are not newsworthy. Seriously, stop making news about Trump and Twitter!!!!

We are teaching our kids that it's okay to call people names on social media. All the crap that's going on in the world unnamed calling between the United States and North KoreaIs ridiculous. World going to be living in a cave over some silly stuff. Nukes and shooting them off. C'mon man!

End of rant.

Donald Trump is a bombastic, extrovert. No one will every accuse him of being a deep thinker but he's not dumb. He knows how to shake-up the accepted, politically correct group think that ignores truth in favor of not offending people.

Social media has changed our society so quickly, parents are still adjusting. New ways for kids to get in trouble.

As for Korea and USA, what would you do? What do you think would happen if the USA just did nothing?

 

[Kate]

The fact remains that 45 publicly rebuked on Twitter the leader of the UK, America's closest ally while promoting tweets from a fascist organization. Just because we are living in the era of social media doesn't make it right. Fascism and racism are never OK. When you are at the helm of the word's most powerful country, you are expected to show restraint, decency, and think twice before you say or write anything. It's not asking too much when you are talking and acting in official capacity on behalf of your country.
Just to be clear, your president is a massive failure and a joke. The clown may be entertaining some people, but he is mostly distracting the crowds and breaking stuff more often than he is fixing them.
Nowadays there is not one single country that would look to the US as a model nation. Indeed it's the poster story of politics gone wrong.

 

[mr-x]

Adding and editing in things at the last minute. Lobbyists know what's in it, the people voting on it don't. It should be online for all to read.

Can you imagine the uproar if the ACA had been done in public, on CSPAN the way Obama promised?

It's trickle down bullsh*t, does not work. What works is if people have more money, they tend to spend it (trickle up), that stimulates the economy. Not complicated.

Yep, letting people keep their own money is dump. Seriously, they should have thrown the entire tax code out, made a simple graduated flat tax, 15% to 20% top bracket, including corporations and fired the IRS.

Dow would be through the roof.

The con man Trump (and Republicans) just made himself richer, while f*cking over the people that voted for him. These people will still defend him to death. Just amazing to watch, how clueless some people can be.

Now some trickle down gifs

Guthrie was a Marxist.

 

[mr-x]

The fact remains that 45 publicly rebuked on Twitter the leader of the UK, America's closest ally while promoting tweets from a fascist organization. Just because we are living in the era of social media doesn't make it right. Fascism and racism are never OK. When you are at the helm of the word's most powerful country, you are expected to show restraint, decency, and think twice before you say or write anything. It's not asking too much when you are talking and acting in official capacity on behalf of your country.

Don't expect restraint or politeness from President Donal Trump. It would be nice but that's not going to happen. I'm more concerned with his deed's than his words, so far he's doing an OK job.

Just to be clear, your president is a massive failure and a joke. The clown may be entertaining some people, but he is mostly distracting the crowds and breaking stuff more often than he is fixing them.
Nowadays there is not one single country that would look to the US as a model nation. Indeed it's the poster story of politics gone wrong.

You think he's a failure and a joke. You don't like his politics or his policies but most of the people who voted for him do.

We all wish he'd keep off twitter but that's not reality.

 

[mr-x]

That's a lot to unpack but if the tax bill doesn't cut taxes on the middle class, the R's will pay for it at the polls.

Also, the land taken by President Obama and previous Presidents should and will be given to the States. State Governments are more accountable to voters and should be in control of how it's used.

The only way were going to cut the deficit is with an expanding economy. We need a 4+ GDP. What happens when Robots start taking over long-distance trucking, construction?.

Not yet that I've seen, because they got this 500 page document with handwritten scribbles just hours before the vote. Democrats got it first from lobbyists, not even official channels. One of our senators was reading it live on facebook, but I doubt he got through it all, unless he's still awake and reading.

I do know of two small improvements that were in the amendments:
- Collins got in an amendment to reinclude property tax deductions, although with a 10k cap.This was in the original house version.
- Something that helps pass through business entities was added, I think a percentage equal to the corporate one? But I'm not sure of the details..

However they voted down a direct middle income tax cut and provisions to minimize impact on the the deficit.

And don't give me any of this "oh the deficit will always have to increase" crap. If democrats tried to put through a budget that increased the deficit half as much as this one will, the same republicans would be screaming until they were blue in the face. Raising the deficit is a slap in the face of fiscal conservatism. Any other interpretation is bullsh*t.

The hurry?
1 Threats from donors if they didn't pass something (other than wind - they've been passing a lot of that!)
2 They know the party is almost over. Once dump gets dumped, the odds of them being able to get anything on their agendas through will dwindle.

Here's another little goodie which pays back a couple of their donors:
http://www.ibtimes.com/political-ca...kstone-ceo-gop-donor-schwarzman-2622738?amp=1

The provision to sell off over a million acres and start drilling in the arctic wildlife refuge is just sad .

Hawaii is testing its civil defense sirens for the first time since the Cold War. Exactly what good would that do anyway? Let them know they have about 15 minutes to gather their loved ones, bend over and kiss their asses goodbye? If nukes are incoming they're screwed.

 

[Kate]

The same energy that went into that post of yours could have been used to express outrage or politely disagree with his stance, instead you chose to downplay and thus legitimize his behavior. Apparently you think it's not important or relevant because it's written on Twitter. It is, because he is not a random citizen, but his words are actual US policy, and they turn into deeds.

BTW only a minority in the US still thinks he's fit for the job. Even in the US most people realize he is nuts and it was a big mistake.

 

[mr-x]

The same energy that went into that post of yours could have been used to express outrage or politely disagree with his stance, instead you chose to downplay and thus legitimize his behavior. Apparently you think it's not important or relevant because it's written on Twitter. It is, because he is not a random citizen, but his words are actual US policy, and they turn into deeds.

BTW only a minority in the US still thinks he's fit for the job. Even in the US most people realize he is nuts and it was a big mistake.

When Barack Obama was President, ISIS spread across Syria and Iraq. Libya was destroyed, Egypt was almost destroyed and Iranian influence grew, threatening the Saudi kingdom.

Under Donald Trump, ISIS has lost almost all of their territory. Egypt is an ally to the USA and Israel again.

A new push in Afghanistan to deprive the Taliban of their money from drugs and human misery is going hand in hand with re-establishing a sustainable Government.

If Pakistan had not protected Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, that part of world would be a much better place.

*Trump wasn't elected by most Americans, he was elected by a majority of states. We're a republic.

 

[mr-x]

My point wasn't that R's don't act badly, but GOP is better at throwing out perv's when they are outed publicly.

Most of the people on the this list were forced to resign or not reelected.

Strom Thurmond publicly recognized his daughter. He also mentored African Americans, including Armstrong Williams. Listing to AW talk about race is refreshing. Unvarnished but not a victim like the current marxist and anarchist of BLM.

Explorations in Black Leadership - Armstrong Williams
https://www.c-span.org/video/?403503-1/armstrong-williams-oral-history-interview

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-man-of-political-mystery-behind-ben-carson/ Listen to AW's interviews on CSPAN before judging his politics.

Hastert wasn't outed until long after he retired.

We'll see what happens to Moore. His accusers sound credible and he hasn't been elected.

Yes, because as we all know, the team that you are so attached to rooting for has committed itself fully to the integrity and family values that they preach endlessly...oh wait...

1. Ed Schrock, caught on tape soliciting sex from a male prostitute after having opposed various gay-rights issues.
2. Strom Thurmond, a segregationist that fathered a child with a 15-year-old African American.
3. Steven C. LaTourette, voted to impeach Bill Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal, had a long-term affair with his chief of staff while he was married.
4. David Dreier, voted against a number of gay rights proposals, outed concerning his relationship with his Chief of Staff.
5. Tim Murphy, an extramarital affair with a 32-year-old.
6. Don Sherwood, five-year extramarital affair with a woman that accused him of physically abusing her.
7. Mark Foley, accused of sending sexually explicit e-mails to teenage male congressional pages.
8. Larry Craig, arrested and charged with lewd conduct arising from his behavior in a men's restroom
9. Vito Fossella, married and father of three admitted to an affair that produced a daughter.
10. John Ensign, had an affair with the wife of a close friend.
11. Mark Souder, advocate of abstinence and family values resigned to avoid an ethics investigation into his admitted extramarital affair with a female staffer.
12. Scott DesJarlais, admitted under oath to at least six affairs.
13. Herman Cain, accused of sexual harassment by several women.
14. Dennis Hastert, pled guilty to structuring bank withdrawals in order to conceal deliberately-unspecified misconduct against an unnamed individual years earlier. Hastert admitted that he had sexually abused boys while he worked as a high school wrestling coach.
15. Roy Moore, has been accused by nine women of sexual misconduct with them when they were in their teens.
16. Donald Trump, accused of sexual assault by 13 women.

Plenty more where those came from...but as always, it only matters to guys like you two when it's the OTHER team, I guess the history listed above "doesn't matter when it shows their hero's to be terrible people".

 

[offthehandle]

Indeed it's the poster story of politics gone wrong.

Actually, the US is all about capitalism, and people being given an environment to make it on their own. It’s not about socialism and copying the caste system still prevalent elsewhere, its not about the ruling of stupid monarachies and their repressive outdated, snooty prissy traditions which gets passed on along still elsewhere. The US left behind the “old world” in 1776 because of their bad politics that still exists. The founding fathers knew what they were doing, unfortunately they didnt have a crystal ball and anticipate the abuses of lobbyists, nor messes of globalism, and large multinationals corporations would create. The US was never was never like the rest the world and independent hard working immigrants who were self employed built it, and people everywhere are still trying to get in, now has a dwindling middle class and needs isolationism, and let other countries deal with the bad ME refugees and hopefully they don’t damage, drain and destroy whereever elsewhere they go except enter the US. Let Russia and China invade wherever they want to, just ban all imports. Let Japan and SK and their all neighbors at risk pay the bills to deal with Rocketman. Withdraw from all foreign wars, let the old world take care of all their own issues, and let the ME all go back to tents and camels. Default on any foreign loans and all foreign aid. Deficit fixed. Flat tax.

 

[offthehandle]

Seriously, they should have thrown the entire tax code out, made a simple graduated flat tax, 15% to 20% top bracket, including corporations and fired the IRS.

Exactly. Fire all the useless bean counters who make a living filing out complex tax forms. Make them retrain in some other productive field instead of being simply “overhead” and necessary evil.

 

[JB Lions]

Catherine Herridge: The FBI had concluded Michael Flynn was NOT lying to them…
http://therightscoop.com/catherine-...oncluded-michael-flynn-was-not-lying-to-them/

According to Catherine Herridge the FBI had concluded that Flynn was not lying to them, but that he was just not remembering things correctly as they had so much coming at them during the transition. She got this from Bret Baier, who learned of this from someone who was familiar with Comey’s testimony:

Not everything needs to be spun, he admitted he lied. Trump just admitted on Twitter he lied:

I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago

He lied. And then Trump knew he lied and didn't tell the FBI, tried to silence/shield Flynn? They're talking obstruction.

1) If you read it on twitter.. it must be true.

2) 100% of scientist agree, life begins at conception.

3) Tax cuts should be called pay raises.

Yes, for those getting the tax cuts, rich. The rest of will probably be paying more.

You think he's a failure and a joke. You don't like his politics or his policies but most of the people who voted for him do.

Not true - 33% approval - http://news.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx

Tied for the lowest he's had and with the recent news, should get worse. You don't have historically low numbers if is support was still there.

And he promised social security, medicare won't be touched but they didn't pass the amendment protecting it, you have Rubio saying:

"Florida Senator Marco Rubio admits that the Republican tax cut plan to aid corporations and the wealthy will require cuts to Social Security and Medicare to pay for it."

That won't go over well.

James Comey first instagram posts - https://www.instagram.com/comey/

• comey“But let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24

• comey‪Beautiful Long Island Sound from Westport, CT. To paraphrase the Buddha — Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun; the moon; and the truth. ‬

Who better to know what's going on. He knows more truth is coming, not good for Trump and Co.