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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

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  • Both Parties

    305 
    votes
    45.6%
  • Neither Party

    58 
    votes
    8.7%
  • Democrats

    150 
    votes
    22.4%
  • Republicans

    156 
    votes
    23.3%
  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun :)

:wave:
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
GoDaddyGoDaddy
Save the naivety comments, you're drowning in it. It seems like you have this Evil Empire, out to get the people view with stuff like:

"and they will be used in ways that will shock you,"

Oh, please share. I'd love to know the little evil stuff you have going around in your mind, that you think the government will one day unleash on the people.
 
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It's true, Europe is as bad, sometimes worse than the US.
The EU data retention directive is a good example of spying against the citizenry. It is so controversial that some countries have not implemented it. A case against was heard before the European Court of Justice yesterday and I hope will be struck down.

In a number of cases, this is a result of lobbying/pressure from the US (=> policy laundering). Example: biometric passports and enrollment of all third party nationals.
But other countries are also encouraged by the bad example set by the US: if the so-called democratic nations can afford to behave in a increasingly authoritarian manner, then the less democratic regimes also feel they have every right to do the same (that's why Russia is now starting to require PNR data).

The US certainly can no longer afford to lecture other countries on human rights because it leads the pack when it comes to setting the bad example. The US has zero credibility today and that has destroyed any leverage in foreign policy.
For example, if Obama was to make a speech to condemn the actions of some despot somewhere (Belarus for example) people would just laugh and shrug. Nobody takes it seriously. Can the US slam Belarus for detaining people arbitrarily while Gitmo is still in operation ? Of course not.

In the meanwhile the EU doublespeak about freedom and privacy is reinforced all the time to disguise the reality but actions speak louder than words.

I have noticed one thing about the US, it is always at war against somebody or something. There was the Cold War but before it was over you also had the war on drugs (still ongoing) then the war on terror now.
War on this, war on that.
Terrorism has replaced communism as the new archenemy, in order to justify the ever growing police/military state.
The war on drugs brings in a steady flow of inmates to the correctional system (= big business). Follow the money. Fear is good for business. But citizens always pay the price.

Hint: it is a permanent war and you are, if not the target, collateral damage or cannon fodder.
 
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"But other countries are also encouraged by the bad example set by the US: if the so-called democratic nations can afford to behave in a increasingly authoritarian manner, then the less democratic regimes also feel they have every right to do the same (that's why Russia is now starting to require PNR data)."

C'mon now. Russia? Mr. KGB himself Putin, doesn't need to take any cues from us. They probably put us to shame in that department.

"Terrorism has replaced communism as the new archenemy, in order to justify the ever growing police/military state."

Well, terrorism is not our friend. And it happens. What do you expect, less?

As far as always with the war. True, sure seems like that but you leave out some of that is helping out allies or helping out when asked. Went over that earlier in the thread, with that one documentary I watched about what if we just pulled all our military bases. They went thru some of the reasons. Talked about Japan, when Saddam invaded Kuwait (our ally), what happened in Bosnia, it wasn't like anybody in the EU was going to do anything. When the U.S. helps, it's why are they meddling. If we don't, it's why aren't you doing anything. And when somebody needs help, who do they usually call? It's easy to live in a country like yours, who's population would fill just half a state, to be sort of neutral because you have other countries like Canada/U.S. that have and would take care of you when needed.
 
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-100 dolla bill dude

Hope I dont get banned for double posting, but this is what I said in the nsa thread and ...

So here it is kiddies, what "they" are feeding the mainstream.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/tech...-hide-nsa-your-guide-nearly-impossible/66942/
The Atlantic Wire-

So, You Want to Hide from the NSA? Your Guide to the Nearly Impossible

Complaining about the government is a key part of being American, the first amendment to the Constitution. But it seems like a bit of a trickier proposition these days, with the government listening to everything you say online. In the interest of preserving your freedoms and bolstering our fair nation, here is the full articulation of the deeply paranoid and complex life you must live in order to assure that the government leaves you alone.

Before we begin, we'll note that technically the NSA isn't allowed to look at the stuff you do online. Thanks to the Patriot Act, it can (and does) store the metadata on phone calls Americans make every dayโ€”who was called, how long the call lasted, maybe some location data. The NSA also pulls in online content, but can't do so legally on targets in the United States. This is part of the PRISM program you may have heard about, in which the NSA can access data from an array of companies in near-real-time. In practice, the NSA's procedures are sufficiently lax that it does collect information (content) from Americans, of course. And until 2011, it collected metadata on emails, including subject lines and to- and from-addresses.

That is the worst case scenario. Yes, the NSA is definitely slurping up scads of information about your phone calls. It probably isn't storing your Facebook chats, emails, and Skype calls. Our goal with this guide is to detail exactly what you need to do to assure that it can't, even if it wants to. As you will see, it is a cumbersome process.

For assistance in fleshing out this guide, we spoke with Micah Lee, a staff technologist with the Electronic Frontier Foundation who has also written a guide to some of the tools mentioned below.

First, the really bad news.

The world learned about PRISM thanks to a series of slides leaked by Edward Snowden. Among those slides was this one.

e93db3ff1defbbead863e523f4527e25_623x467.jpg


On this slide, you can see the companies that participate in the program but also the data they offer the NSA, if the agency asks. Microsoft, Google, Yahoo (complete with trademark exclamation point), Facebook, YouTube, Skype, AOL, Apple. All of the logos smushed into the header of the slide. And all of the companies to be avoided if you don't want any chance that the NSA can surveil what you're doing.

Again: We are not saying that you should not use Facebook. What we are saying is that if you are desperate to prevent the NSA from knowing what you're doing, you shouldn't use Facebook. And there's nothing you can do to make using Facebook betterโ€”no encryption, no anything can make Facebook safe from the NSA. (We'll discuss this more a little later on.)

But it gets worse. These are the companies known to be participating in PRISM as of last October (when Apple was added). Since then, others may have been added; others may be added in the future. The truly paranoid, then, will have second thoughts about nearly any major Internet company.

And then it gets worse still, as Lee pointed out. "Any company that's inside of U.S. jurisdiction," he said, "can get government requests for data. Even if they're not listed in the PRISM slides, that doesn't mean the government isn't getting data from them." If the NSA wants your data, in other words, it can probably get it. It just might not be in real-time. (We'll get back to this, too.)

HeaderEmail.png


Before we continue, we should flesh out an important distinction. When you think of an email, what you generally think of is the content of the email, the message. In order for that message to get to you, though, the email also needs to contain metadata, a term loosely-and-not-entirely-accurately used to refer to information about the email message itself. For example: who it is addressed to, who it came from, what its subject is. (We have gone deeper into this before.)

Comtinue... for rest of article...worth the read.
HeaderBrowse.png


HeaderIM.png


HeaderPhone.png

So basically...Nothing works...

This is the way it is, there is nothing you can do about it, we dont care if it's legal or not, you are all f'd.
Thank you and have a nice day. :wave:

Oh, and btw... "they" are "them" 8-X


Peace,
Cy
 
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Oh, please share. I'd love to know the little evil stuff you have going around in your mind, that you think the government will one day unleash on the people.

Pick up a few history books, then read your local newspaper. You'll see plenty of parallels. I would guess you've been brought up to take a sort of semi-neutered lifestyle for granted. The overwhelming police presence in every little incident, the abuse at the airports, the endless obscure regulations and need for attorneys to conduct daily affairs, pay taxes, run a business, the IRS targeting political groups. None of that worries you, so I imagine it will take a pretty nasty smack to wake you up. I can't imagine what it will be, but governments by nature will keep pushing until they reach that point.
 
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C'mon now. Russia? Mr. KGB himself Putin, doesn't need to take any cues from us. They probably put us to shame in that department.
Putin is a man from the Soviet era, clearly not a democrat.
My point is that when there was the scarecrow of communism, the nations of the so-called free world had to maintain at least a facade of democracy, now all restraints have gone. That's why the US and China now look more and more the same (I repeat myself).
People don't realize yet how much the world has changed since the fall of the Iron curtain.

It's ironic to think that Nixon fell for bugging the Democrats while today it's the whole planet that is being tapped and people seem to think it's perfectly normal.
I don't want to live in a world where my every move, conversation or action is recorded forever under the guise of protecting me from terrorists, especially when the prevailing attitude is that anybody is suspect and should be put under permanent surveillance.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

Well, terrorism is not our friend. And it happens. What do you expect, less?
I note that the terrorists have succeeded in changing our way of life, so in my view the terrorists have won to a large extent.

That's the beauty of the system: people think they are still as free as before, that they are just experiencing 'temporary' stress and that it will go away soon because the government is caring.

History is made of ups and downs, and I firmly believe (if we live long enough) that one day we will be ashamed to tell our children and grandchildren we have lived in such times and did nothing (sounds familiar ?).

...
When the U.S. helps, it's why are they meddling. If we don't, it's why aren't you doing anything. And when somebody needs help, who do they usually call?
I agree that the US has often stepped up to the plate for other countries, but Uncle Sam is not always right.
I am a citizen of a country with no enemies, as such I should never have been dragged into that global crusade, the US-led war on terror that is actually a war on the people, freedom and democracy.
 
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Communications technology are products of choice. If you want the "freedoms you had before", get off the web and don't use phones.

I still choose not to use cell phones because I do not like the privacy trade-offs.

I know people, in the computer biz, and in the professional activist community, who do not use the web, or cell phones, by choice. They are protecting their privacy. It is Your responsibility to protect your privacy.

To go outside naked, then complain that people who look at you are violating your right to privacy reflects a privileged sense of entitlement.
 
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Pick up a few history books, then read your local newspaper. You'll see plenty of parallels. I would guess you've been brought up to take a sort of semi-neutered lifestyle for granted. The overwhelming police presence in every little incident, the abuse at the airports, the endless obscure regulations and need for attorneys to conduct daily affairs, pay taxes, run a business, the IRS targeting political groups. None of that worries you, so I imagine it will take a pretty nasty smack to wake you up. I can't imagine what it will be, but governments by nature will keep pushing until they reach that point.

You said ways that will shock me, so I was expecting something good and you posted a bunch of nothing.

"overwhelming police presence in every little incident" - that's what police do. When there is crime, usually police. I'm sure you have police in Japan.

"abuse at the airports" - what? Are you talking about screening? Something that every airport has and something that's always been around. Why in the world would somebody have a problem with that, how is that supposed to shock me?

"endless obscure regulations and need for attorneys to conduct daily affairs, pay taxes, run a business," Common sense regulation is fine. I have my own business, didn't need an attorney, now it's a small business and I have an accountant, but that was of my choosing. Big business has lawyers, and? We have this thing called the law so if something comes up in that regard, you have a ........lawyer. If you have a plumbing issue you can't handle yourself, you get a ........ plumber. Taxes? Don't see the point in that one. You do understand the need for taxes and what they're used for?

"IRS targeting political groups" - they look at everybody. Again, the ones you're referring too all god approved. You had some Dem ones in the past, disapproved. Looks like they went over the line some but they are supposed to check things out.

So no, none of that worries me because there is nothing there to worry about.

I agree that the US has often stepped up to the plate for other countries, but Uncle Sam is not always right.
I am a citizen of a country with no enemies, as such I should never have been dragged into that global crusade, the US-led war on terror that is actually a war on the people, freedom and democracy.

Of course we're not always right. As far as war on terror, so you suggest what? We do nothing?

I'm curious how you think the U.S. should handle some situations.

North Korea steps to South Korea, U.S. should..........?

Somebody steps to Israel, U.S. should...........?

Do nothing?

When Saddam invaded Kuwait, we stepped in and handled it. Should we have done nothing? Just let Saddam run them over? Would things have been better if we did that?
 
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As far as war on terror, so you suggest what? We do nothing?

Who and what is this "terror" we're fighting?

What do we do if a country decides to attack Iraq on some false premise?
 
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Define "steps to" as I dont know what that means.
 
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Attack, invade, light them up with missiles etc. You know what it means.

Do you what I meant by "handled it", when I said:

"When Saddam invaded Kuwait, we stepped in and handled it."

I'm sure you do.
 
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I was maybe wrong about shocking you. Hard to shock someone who refuses to look.

Your answers below are the usual "it's like that everywhere," despite the lack of evidence. Brainwashed replies.

I can go a whole day in the city without noticing any police. And even when they are present, there are a few and they are unobtrusive. The are not the paramilitary style police that are common in the US who cover every public event ready to taser anyone for a minor offense.
And police generally do not interfere in personal squabbles. If you have an issue, you work it out. if you find yourself in a shoving match with someone in the US, the police will arrest both of you and you can spend the next several years dealing with criminal and civil courts. (Don't let you imagine run wild here again. I don't get involved in physical altercations.) But you are used to the heavy police presence, and think the whole world is that way.

Abuse at American airports is legendary. Security at other airports in the world generally try to focus on suspicious looking people, rather than just treating everyone like cattle. Again, you are used to it and think it's normal.

Regulations are excessive and crudely enforced. Again, you are used to it and think the whole world is that way. "This thing called law" comes up more frequently in the US than elsewhere. That's part of the problem, as almost everything now has become law in the States. Without a second thought, Americans make a legal issue out of even the most minor problems, allowing the government to control what would formerly have been a private issue.

Regarding the IRS, you are just in flat denial mode.

It's all fine with you because you don't know any better life apparently.
You said ways that will shock me, so I was expecting something good and you posted a bunch of nothing.

"overwhelming police presence in every little incident" - that's what police do. When there is crime, usually police. I'm sure you have police in Japan.

"abuse at the airports" - what? Are you talking about screening? Something that every airport has and something that's always been around. Why in the world would somebody have a problem with that, how is that supposed to shock me?

"endless obscure regulations and need for attorneys to conduct daily affairs, pay taxes, run a business," Common sense regulation is fine. I have my own business, didn't need an attorney, now it's a small business and I have an accountant, but that was of my choosing. Big business has lawyers, and? We have this thing called the law so if something comes up in that regard, you have a ........lawyer. If you have a plumbing issue you can't handle yourself, you get a ........ plumber. Taxes? Don't see the point in that one. You do understand the need for taxes and what they're used for?

"IRS targeting political groups" - they look at everybody. Again, the ones you're referring too all god approved. You had some Dem ones in the past, disapproved. Looks like they went over the line some but they are supposed to check things out.

So no, none of that worries me because there is nothing there to worry about.



Of course we're not always right. As far as war on terror, so you suggest what? We do nothing?

I'm curious how you think the U.S. should handle some situations.

North Korea steps to South Korea, U.S. should..........?

Somebody steps to Israel, U.S. should...........?

Do nothing?

When Saddam invaded Kuwait, we stepped in and handled it. Should we have done nothing? Just let Saddam run them over? Would things have been better if we did that?
 
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"I can go a whole day in the city without noticing any police."

You're in Japan, how in the hell can you notice police in the U.S.? I can go days without seeing them myself. I think maybe you watch a little too much liveleak or something?

The airport stuff is funny. Going thru a metal detector/screening is normal, all airports have them. But for you, you like to make it something big, it's ..........ABUSE. Oh, the horror.

And you're really not qualified to make that type of assessment, because again, you don't live here. You base this off stuff you find on the internet I guess. It's why your post is a bunch of crazy. Really, one day I'll wake up and be shocked that I pay taxes? You post some straight up crazy stuff sometimes and the sad thing is, I don't think you even realize it. But, it's what I come to expect from somebody who said Communist China has more freedom. It just shows how out of touch you are.
 
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"I can go a whole day in the city without noticing any police."

You're in Japan, how in the hell can you notice police in the U.S.? I can go days without seeing them myself. I think maybe you watch a little too much liveleak or something?

The airport stuff is funny. Going thru a metal detector/screening is normal, all airports have them. But for you, you like to make it something big, it's ..........ABUSE. Oh, the horror.

And you're really not qualified to make that type of assessment, because again, you don't live here. You base this off stuff you find on the internet I guess. It's why your post is a bunch of crazy.

The way you misstate (misread) what I post is quite amazing. That's why it gets tiring explaining things to you. When did I say I could see the police in America from Japan?

Airports again...round in circles.

For a guy who constantly Googles his answers, it's odd that you would criticize info found on the internet as crazy. In any case, I base this on my personal observations. You see, they have these things called airplanes - makes it easy to go to the US and experience it first-hand. And as I implied in another comment you completely misinterpreted, most people are far more informed about the US than you are about their countries, such as Portugal. You assume that living there currently gives you an indisputable knowledge of the place. Most people are not all that aware of what's happening outside their immediate sphere. Whether that describes you is something to think about.

And while we are at it, show me where I said China has more freedom. I said something along the lines of "a case could be made" or "in some aspects." Rather than address a reasonably qualified assertion, you chose to misstate it and repeat your misinterpretation. In other words, you make stuff up.
 
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No, it's me trying to explain things to you. Let's try again.

You're in Japan. You're talking like you know about police in the United States. You're in another country. You're trying to make some comparison about how it is in Japan, which you should know about since you live there, to the United States. Doesn't work. That would be like me trying to comment on the daily police presence in Japan. I don't know, I don't live there. I'm not sure why you have trouble understanding this.

And yes, actually living somewhere would give you more insight.

"makes it easy to go to the US and experience it first-hand."

Give me details. Did they bend you over or something? Back your post up, tell me of the abuse you suffered.
 
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Communications technology are products of choice. If you want the "freedoms you had before", get off the web and don't use phones.
And the next step:
- don't leave your house, to avoid the face recognition cameras
- don't drive, because there automated license plate readers on the road and your moves are monitored and recorded.
- don't travel, because you are going to be fingerprinted
- don't use credit cards because you're being tracked and profiled
- etc

To sum up: renounce all your freedoms, including the freedom to move.
I cannot accept your flawed logic, just because I use the phone doesn't mean I am not entitled to privacy. Private conversations are not part of the public record.
It's nobody's business and nobody should have the right to monitor my communications, unless of course there is a surveillance warrant specifically issued against me, because there is compelling evidence I have committed a crime. But blanket surveillance of innocent citizens is wrong !

"I can go a whole day in the city without noticing any police."

You're in Japan, how in the hell can you notice police in the U.S.? I can go days without seeing them myself. I think maybe you watch a little too much liveleak or something?

The airport stuff is funny. Going thru a metal detector/screening is normal, all airports have them. But for you, you like to make it something big, it's ..........ABUSE. Oh, the horror.
US airports =Gattaca :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-VISIT

Denial: making up excuses to justify a state of affairs you haven't even chosen, but that you are too afraid to question.
Hey, in America it's normal... like so many other disturbing stuff...
 
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Ah, Gattaca, I have that movie on blu.

The only chang I've noticed because of 9/11, is I have to take off my shoes.

I know people coming into the country have to do that little thumb thing, my aunts who visited this year told me about it. They didn't have a problem with it.

But on behalf of the United States, I want to apologize for the abuse your little thumbs had to go thru, getting into the country. I know it must have been traumatic.


Of course those cases are bad but that's the old using isolated incidents/exception to try to make an argument instead of the rule. You do that when you don't have much of a case to begin with. We had over 812,000,000 people come thru our airports last year.
 
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You do that when you don't have much of a case to begin with.

Maybe YOU do, I don't. Don't make ASSumptions.

My case is pretty good - those incidents wouldn't have happened at all before 9/11, less severe abuses happen every day.

We had over 812,000,000 people come thru our airports last year.

And I'm sure they all found it to be a delightful and heartwarming experience. And their exhibitionistic side just loved the full body scans.
 
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