The USA Political Thread

[lennco]

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun

:wave:

 

[mr-x]

Lol what? Where do you get this crap from? Refugees = Nazis? LOL

You're have to be one of the most uninformed or dishonest people I've ever disagreed with to pretend Muslims from the middle east aren't anti-Semitic.

 

[mr-x]

This is like saying Americans are nazis because they voted for a KKK-endorsed president.
The nazis also got a bit of help from American citizens, politicians and corporations.

Uh-huh... Name one country in the middle east, besides Jordan, that doesn't want to exterminate Jews from Israel.

Then name ONE that didn't support Adolf H in WW2

 

[mr-x]

This is like saying Americans are nazis because they voted for a KKK-endorsed president.
The nazis also got a bit of help from American citizens, politicians and corporations.

KKK in America was started by liberal democrats. Now they are marginalized and shunned.

Anti-Semitism is tought in Arab and Persian public schools.

 

[mr-x]

Barack Obama and John Kerry attacked Israel at the U.N. this week. Then the cowards tried to lie about instigating the resolution that would strip Israel of their own capital city.

Pres. Obama wants to turn over the only democracy in the middle east where Muslims are truly free and enjoy representation in local and national politics to a trinity of terrorist groups called the Palestinian Authority.

Anything further his own hateful policies and hurt the new President Elect.

 

[Kate]

The people don't care about Jews, they want to carry on with their lives and that's it. However, autocratic governments in the region have always stirred up anti-Israel sentiment in order to divert attention away from their own incompetence and mismanagement. Israel is always a convenient scapegoat for everything going wrong in their countries. Again, what do you expect from corrupt, repressive governments.
It is a fallacy to think that governments are completely representative of the people, even when they result from fair and honest elections (it's the Middle East).

But Arabs don't care about Palestinians in general. Jordan has a lot of Palestinians, Lebanon too (where they live in precarious situations). Most other Arab countries don't feel concerned. Why would they ? They care about Palestinians or Israelis as much as you care about Mexicans. They are your neighbors but not your friends or family.

The rich countries from the Gulf give some money for Palestinians (to keep them in the camps) but don't do much. Sadly, they are more interested in financing the building of mosques overseas than helping out their fellow Syrians in need.

Hate is not cool, even when it's only taught in the books. Israeli occupation is not cool either and it is also a form of hate that is put in practice and has real, dire consequences for people.

 

[mr-x]

 

[iowadawg]

Kate is out of this world for sure!
ANYONE CAN ENDORSE A PRESIDENT!
Now, that vagina queen the elite wanted?
SHE WAS LIVING THE KKK DREAM......SHE WAS KKK.....HER PARTY IS KKK...

But yes, a lot of Americans (hey, remember Charles LInbergh?) liked Adolf and his party for what they did for Germany.
A lot were nazis, American Nazi Party....
But damn, all of that went damn fast into history when Adolf declared war on the USA.

 

[mr-x]

The people don't care about Jews, they want to carry on with their lives and that's it.

And their Gov.'s still allow slavery but we're supposed to overlook all of the awful, ignorant, hateful policies b/c the people don't agree or something.

It is a fallacy to think that governments are completely representative of the people, even when they result from fair and honest elections (it's the Middle East).

So we're supposed to ignore that Hamas was voted into power b/c it's the Middle East?

But Arabs don't care about Palestinians in general. Jordan has a lot of Palestinians, Lebanon too (where they live in precarious situations). Most other Arab countries don't feel concerned. Why would they ? They care about Palestinians or Israelis as much as you care about Mexicans. They are your neighbors but not your friends or family.

The rich countries from the Gulf give some money for Palestinians (to keep them in the camps) but don't do much. Sadly, they are more interested in financing the building of mosques overseas than helping out their fellow Syrians in need.

Muslims states don't allow Arabs from Palestine to immigrate b/c Arab Palestine would cease to exist. The people would return to their countries of origin.

Hate is not cool, even when it's only taught in the books. Israeli occupation is not cool either and it is also a form of hate that is put in practice and has real, dire consequences for people.

The idea that Jews are "occupying" Judea is ludicrous. Every concession made by Israel to Palestine has resulted in violence against Israel.

I'd like you to name ONE concession from Arab Palestine to Israel in the last 24 years. ONE. I'll wait.

 

[mr-x]

The people don't care about Jews, they want to carry on with their lives and that's it..

Let me know if this confirms or refutes your opinion of anti-Semitism in the Middle East.

 

[Kate]

The idea that Jews are "occupying" Judea is ludicrous.

Even when they expel you from your home, then raze your home to the ground, steal your property and land ? When settlers armed with machine guns destroy your harvest under protection of the military ?
You think that the occupation is a picnic party ? Americans live in La-La land.
To think that Trump is going to support Israel again no matter how wrong - what a great contribution to world peace. Again, no other country on Earth would get away with it, and the unconditional US support for Israel is a huge liability for no clear benefit.

I'd like you to name ONE concession from Arab Palestine to Israel in the last 24 years. ONE. I'll wait.

Palestine has at least recognized the right for Israel to exist. Does the opposite hold true ? The continuing occupation is destroying the prospects for a two-State solution. Israel has been eating Palestinian territory through settlements. Sadly, there is nothing to discuss anymore. You can't talk with someone while he's robbing you.

Let me know if this confirms or refutes your opinion of anti-Semitism in the Middle East.

I am not denying the reality of anti-Semitism in the Middle East, even though it is orchestrated to a large extent. But don't you think that Israel is less than friendly towards its neighbors too. Actions speak louder than words, always.

PS: link to the latest UN resolution: http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/RES/2334(2016)

Condemning
all measures aimed at al
tering the demographic composition,
character and status of the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, including East
Jerusalem, including, inter alia, the construction and expansion of settlements,
transfer of Israeli settlers, confiscation of land, d
emolition of homes and
displacement of Palestinian civilians, in violation of international humanitarian law
and relevant resolutions,

Once upon a time, there was a country accused of such misdeeds, I think it was apartheid-era South Africa. Double standards ?

 

[GILSAN]

Once upon a time, there was a country accused of such misdeeds, I think it was apartheid-era South Africa. Double standards ?

Apartheid against whites still happening in South Africa nowadays. Naturally... no one talks about it.

 

[GILSAN]

 

[mr-x]

Even when they expel you from your home, then raze your home to the ground, steal your property and land ? When settlers armed with machine guns destroy your harvest under protection of the military ?

Occupation... I don't know what country your from but I'm going to guess if a neighbor stated they wanted to exterminate your race form the earth, then attacked you and lost... you might not want to give them YOUR land back.

If that same neighbor launched terrorist attacks, rockets, murder squads, suicide bombers into your cities, you might remove them FROM YOUR LAND.

You pretend like Israel just walked into a peaceful settlement with tractors and tanks for shits and giggles.

You're ignorant of the facts, spouting liberal talking points written by Marxist and anti-Semites.

If Arab-Palestine disarmed, recognized Israel's right to exist, their would be a two state solution in months.

You think that the occupation is a picnic party ? Americans live in La-La land.

I could say the same about you. You expect a terrorist Gov, who's stated they want to exterminate your race, attacked you constantly, refused to acknowledge your right to exist to an honest negotiator.

Once upon a time, there was a country accused of such misdeeds, I think it was apartheid-era South Africa. Double standards ?

You are full of shit. Muslims, Christians and Jews live in peace and harmony in Israel. Neither Jews or Christians are safe in Arab Palestine.

You never answered my question.. So I guess you can't or facts don't matter to you.

Name ONE concession from Arab Palestine to Israel in the last 24 years. ONE.

 

[mr-x]

Palestine has at least recognized the right for Israel to exist.

No, they do not. This is a lie. Arab Palestine doesn't recognize Israel as a state or a people.

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=433

http://canadafreepress.com/article/...s-government-refuse-to-acknowledge-israels-ri

Why Israel Insists on Palestinian Recognition of a Jewish State
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=36&x_article=2675

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7849/palestinians-accept-jewish-israel

 

[GILSAN]

 

[GILSAN]

 

[GILSAN]

 

[Kate]

Occupation... I don't know what country your from but I'm going to guess if a neighbor stated they wanted to exterminate your race form the earth, then attacked you and lost... you might not want to give them YOUR land back.

Just an excuse to confiscate land. Settler are not fighting terrorists, they are coming after civilians who've done nothing wrong. They plain steal from them.

You pretend like Israel just walked into a peaceful settlement with tractors and tanks for sh*ts and giggles..

They steal land, evict Arabs from their homes and destroy or confiscate property. Even the UN resolution says that. Perhaps you've been under the impression that the occupation is something benign, as if settlers were building homes on some unoccupied land,... but that's not how it works. People are hurt and deported in the process.
Israelis have security problems, but they have a country and a territory. They are not being deported from their homes right now. It's Palestinians who are being deported and have their rights violated.

You're ignorant of the facts, spouting liberal talking points written by Marxist and anti-Semites.

The anti-Semite label is a very poor attempt to dismiss the critics. Then the whole world is anti-Semite and the UN to begin with.
My advice is to have a look at the UN resolutions (why exactly other countries are blaming Israel), then do some research to understand what exactly is going on in the West Bank.

The ignorant are those who dismiss the UN resolutions even though they never read them and have strictly no idea of the points made.

If Arab-Palestine disarmed, recognized Israel's right to exist, their would be a two state solution in months.

Not going to happen.
The persistent colonization has been eating at Palestinian territory. The West bank is now a myriad of enclaves, moving from one enclave to another is difficult and can take hours, checkpoints have to be crossed. It's a nightmare for people who live there. Freedom of circulation doesn't exist in the West Bank.

http://www.btselem.org/maps

Israel has pursued a policy of fait accompli, seizing land and fragmenting Palestinian territory. You can't build a State out of a myriad of enclaves, and that's the whole point.
Israel doesn't want to live side by side with a viable Palestinian State, or they would do it differently. They have built huge walls, so they could have cut off the West bank neatly. Instead they have allowed settlements and built walled enclaves.

No, they do not. This is a lie. Arab Palestine doesn't recognize Israel as a state or a people.

Palestine has recognized the right for Israel to exist and there is no turning back, no matter what Hamas says and does. The issue of recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is a subtlety, but that has important implications. In fact the article you quoted explains some of the issues at hand.

 

[mr-x]

Just an excuse to confiscate land. Settler are not fighting terrorists, they are coming after civilians who've done nothing wrong. They plain steal from them.

I'm not going to pretend these two states are not at war. I'm also not going to pretend "civilians" don't strap on bombs, run people over with cars, stab people, etc.

The last time Israel kicked 8,000 Jews from their land and gave it to Arab-Palestine, they were rewarded with violence. A lot of bad actions in response to other bad actions.

I'm confidant if Arab-Palestine wanted peace and stopped attacking Israel, Israel would negotiate a peace.. even compromising on land.

They steal land, evict Arabs from their homes and destroy or confiscate property. Even the UN resolution says that. Perhaps you've been under the impression that the occupation is something benign, as if settlers were building homes on some unoccupied land,... but that's not how it works. People are hurt and deported in the process

Israelis have security problems, but they have a country and a territory. They are not being deported from their homes right now. It's Palestinians who are being deported and have their rights violated.

Most Arab-Palestine land was lost in open conflict with Israel.

You can argue that the policy of destroying the family home of terrorist is unjust, which it is. It's also unjust for the Palestine Authority to reward families of terrorist with life-long payments and privileges.

If you strap a bomb on and attack civilians in Israel, your family will pay a price, maybe loosing you land for murdering civilians isn't worth the life-time payments and political martyrdom.

The anti-Semite label is a very poor attempt to dismiss the critics. Then the whole world is anti-Semite and the UN to begin with.

It's an accurate label. you're wiliness to dismiss or minimize facts when they don't support your position is a bad habit.

My advice is to have a look at the UN resolutions (why exactly other countries are blaming Israel), then do some research to understand what exactly is going on in the West Bank.

The ignorant are those who dismiss the UN resolutions even though they never read them and have strictly no idea of the points made.

I put zero faith in the UN and the greedy, blood hungry people who run it. Taking UN resolutions as fact is like taking a prosecutor's statement as fact.

UN resolutions written by combatant countries, protected by China who has taken Tibet, is threating Taiwan and Russia, currently engaged in a war with Ukraine.

The persistent colonization has been eating at Palestinian territory.

I hope Israel takes all of Palestine until Arab-Palestine is nothing but a postage stamp.

Colonization would end tomorrow if Hamas disarmed. Many Arab Muslims live well in Israel. How many Jews live in Arab-Palestine?

Palestine has recognized the right for Israel to exist and there is no turning back, no matter what Hamas says and does. The issue of recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is a subtlety, but that has important implications. In fact the article you quoted explains some of the issues at hand.

You're ignoring present day facts to support a failed argument.

Yasser Arafat is dead, his government is gone. The Palestine authority is comprised of three different terrorist groups. The official position is the destruction of Israel.

 

[mr-x]

The Arab-Palestine and Jewish Israel conflict is long with thousands of bad actions by both parties.

1) Israel is a liberal representative democracy.

• Atheist, Christians, Jews, Muslims live together. Human rights are respected.
• Has compromised in the past, turning over land for peace
• Endorsed a two state solution.
• When attacked, uses the opportunity to keep land.

2) Arab-Palestine is run by a coalition of terrorist groups, supported by other theocratic terrorist nations.

• Every time a solution is brokered, Arab-Palestine attacks Israel
• PA pays the families of terrorist life-time payments for killing Israeli civilians.
• Their public schools teach Jews are evil and should be exterminated.
• Their official Government policy is the destruction of Israel

Liberals and progressives support Arab-Palestine.

Cognitive dissonance

I wonder if Liberals would call Arab-Palestine occupiers if they had won and kept Israeli land.

 

[iowadawg]

 

[iowadawg]

Kate, one day soon, probably:

 

[mr-x]

Kate, one day soon, probably:

the UN resolution against slavery doesn't allow this. It doesn't happen. La La La La La

 

[Kate]

I put zero faith in the UN and the greedy, blood hungry people who run it. Taking UN resolutions as fact is like taking a prosecutor's statement as fact.

UN resolutions written by combatant countries, protected by China who has taken Tibet, is threating Taiwan and Russia, currently engaged in a war with Ukraine.

I see, discarding the evidence when it gets too hot and inconvenient.
So these resolutions are equally worthless ?

68/262. Territorial integrity of Ukraine
Question of Tibet - 2079
Question of Tibet - 1723

I am sure Trump didn't read the resolutions and doesn't care, as he doesn't read intel briefings too, because he knows it all. He's an expert in foreign affairs.
I forgot we live in a post-truth world now.

Unfortunately the outcome is predictable: the next administration will resume business as usual and continue to support Israel no matter how wrong. Of course the injustice will embolden radicals and terrorists (I don't support them but just saying), then Trump will depict the Arabs as terrorists and he will claim that "the whole world hates us", and this is so unfair and he can't fathom why etc. Cause you know, the Americans are white and Christian, so they are the good guys.
But not a word about occupation crimes, ever.
I don't have a problem with the US being friend with Israel (very one-sided friendship BTW). The problem is their unbalanced attitude and disregard for the other party that doesn't contribute to a peaceful settlement.
It is a very sad state of affairs.

Colonization would end tomorrow if Hamas disarmed.

Colonization never stopped, even during Arafat's tenure. It is something that contributed to undermine the authority of the Palestinian authority: while negotiations are going on, Israeli settlers continue to grab land and the Israeli government allows the fait accompli. Arabs end up thinking they are suckers being taken advantage of. Terrorists determine that the Palestinian authority betrays them and ignore attempts at peace.

1) Israel is a liberal representative democracy. Atheist, Christians, Jews, Muslims live together. Human rights are respected.

The US is a democracy, but it violates human rights and also engages in illegal, armed interventions. it violates its own Constitution and detains people indefinitely without trial.
Israel: exactly the same.
Turkey is a democracy too.
India is a democracy too.
Plenty of countries are democracies at least on paper.
Doesn't mean human rights are strongly enforced.
The word 'democracy' is abused as often as 'premium' in the domain industry.

 

[mr-x]

The US is a democracy, but it violates human rights and also engages in illegal, armed interventions. it violates its own Constitution and detains people indefinitely without trial.
Israel: exactly the same.
Turkey is a democracy too.
India is a democracy too.
Plenty of countries are democracies at least on paper.
Doesn't mean human rights are strongly enforced.
The word 'democracy' is abused as often as 'premium' in the domain industry.

You know who's not a democracy? The PA. It's a terrorist organization that attacks it's neighbor state to kill as many civilians as possible.

If your neighbor killed your child, you'd be happy to let them keep living next to you.. threating your other children. Right?

Your belief all UN resolutions are equally valid and accurate is dubious at best.