opinion The Unfair Advantage, A Domainers Life

[News]

Most domain name investors are living on hopes and dreams. They want to buy low, sell high, just like everybody else. Every day they put in countless hours of research, considering the risks of specific domains and investing the little money they do have to fulfill this dream of making it big.

What I don’t like is an unfair advantage over any other bidder on any auction system. Yes, finances will often be the largest barrier but when “other” factors come into play… it’s simply not fair.

I reached out to Paul Nicks of GoDaddy with a few questions and his thoughts in regards to API bidding.

I personally think that API bidding on domain name auction platforms does not provide a level playing field for all, which the auction services should be striving for. I do not consider proxy bidding and API bidding on the same playing field. Closeout snipping is also heavily at an advantage of an API bidder, who can send several calls to “buy” per second, when a manual bidder can not do that.

What happens to PendingDelete auctions when the bidder doesn’t pay or a charge back occurs after the auction? I’d hope the auction would be rerun after the non-payment and the “the house” doesn’t just get to keep the domain for basically free (reg fee). Are fake bidder accounts created just to initiate a non-paying bidder?

In my opinion, if I were involved in the bidding of a domain auction and didn’t get a chance to either participate in a reauction or have first crack if I was the second highest bidder when a non-paying bidder situation occurred, I would feel cheated. Not fair...

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[Hemanttilotia]

Why can't someone use their API to make a better auction website and get affiliate income from the sales it generate?

 

[Joe Styler]

Why can't someone use their API to make a better auction website and get affiliate income from the sales it generate?

Because we don't allow people to build their own auction sites with our auction names.

 

[Joe Styler]

There's an app for that too. Godaddy website app works 100% on the iphone. You can even check your auction account.

The app was removed from the app store. The team in charge is developing a new better app.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

Because we don't allow people to build their own auction sites with our auction names.

Don't get me wrong but GD auctions have effectively become expired names auction website.
NameJet is winning it hands down.

 

[Joe Styler]

Don't get me wrong but GD auctions have effectively become expired names auction website.
NameJet is winning it hands down.

If you are talking about expired domains each company has its own exclusive inventory when names expire. So really if you are after a certain domain it is a matter of determining which auction house it will land in when it expires. If you are talking about in general GoDaddy has a greater volume of expired domain names and the bids start at $12 instead of $60 or $70 depending on which auction house you are using.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

If you are talking about expired domains each company has its own exclusive inventory when names expire. So really if you are after a certain domain it is a matter of determining which auction house it will land in when it expires. If you are talking about in general GoDaddy has a greater volume of expired domain names and the bids start at $12 instead of $60 or $70 depending on which auction house you are using.

All I am saying is that the exposure to domain names of private sellers isn't there in Godaddy. GD auctions are almost entirely occupied by expired domains, something in your algorithm!?, I don't know.
Even the best of names of Pvt sellers get lost in your expired domains inventory.

 

[Hemanttilotia]

If you are talking about expired domains each company has its own exclusive inventory when names expire. So really if you are after a certain domain it is a matter of determining which auction house it will land in when it expires. If you are talking about in general GoDaddy has a greater volume of expired domain names and the bids start at $12 instead of $60 or $70 depending on which auction house you are using.

I think I can make a better auction platform on top of your inventory. You give me affiliate income like you have been providing to those who come up with daily domain lists. I am not bypassing your platform in any way.

 

[mr-x]

The app was removed from the app store. The team in charge is developing a new better app.

Still on my phone, I use regularly. Looking forward to seeing the new version.

 

[john888]

When I buy an expired domain I want an honest and fare bid process. So keep the Namejet price fixing by private sellers out of Godaddy auctions.

 

[UXela]

You have to show a need, and the ability to use it responsibly. We do not allow, for instance, someone to setup a 3rd party auction site using our API, essentially sub-syndicating our inventory.

@Paul Nicks @Joe Styler
Please see attached the reply I got when I requested API access.

(A) Showing a need:

• I told your colleagues that I need it and I am a GD Auctions active buyer
• I was just beaten by a bot to a closeout today - you cannot argue that bots don't have an unfair advantage when it comes to the 1/100 second when a domain becomes available in closeouts

...no - it is not the first time I got beaten by a bot to a domain that was just available in closeout. It happened hundreds of times. We all need the same "weapons" to keep things fair ... or as fair as it can be. Giving some access to the API while denying others the same does not create (nor does it keep) a level playing field.

(B) Ability to use it responsibly:

• I only want to use the API for my GD Auctions needs. I do not intend to publish anything on a third party website or anything. (not that anybody from your side asked - this would be the "responsible" part according to the terms)
• I am quite good with coding even when APIs are involved. All my domain name sale pages (landing) are just redirected to a template page and the sale page reconfigures itself using data from Sedo's API. If you wanna see the code - sure - PM me. Here's an example landing page: www.apptik.com. That should demonstrate ability (not that anybody from your side asked)

So... considering what you stated here a very short while ago - please kindly provide API access.

 

[Arca]

Edit: moved to PM.

 

[Joe Styler]

You can send me some information on your account and we can take a look but it is very rare that we give API access. It does not have to be a bot to beat you on a closeout. Send me a pm.

 

[UXela]

Gave you the account details over PM.

Your statement:

You can send me some information on your account and we can take a look but it is very rare that we give API access. It does not have to be a bot to beat you on a closeout. Send me a pm.

kind of contradicts:

You have to show a need, and the ability to use it responsibly. We do not allow, for instance, someone to setup a 3rd party auction site using our API, essentially sub-syndicating our inventory.

...the context was [when GD Auctions API access is granted]

I am not saying that each time it is is a bot who beats me. Sometimes it is a bot. Sometimes someone faster than me. It is not the point to prove when it is a bot (although I can do that as well). I have nothing against bots. I have something against unfair advantages.

And arbitrarily and unreasonably limiting API access creates unfair advantages for the ones having access.

 

[Ategy]

@Joe Styler Can you PLEASE tell them to work on a mobile version of the website. It simply does not work well on a smartphone. I use my phone 99% of the time. The lack of a working mobile site makes it impossible to do anything which keeps me away.

Are you sure you're not talking about their Mobile App? Which is essentially useless unless you're just tracking a very small number of domains. (*I seriously cringe at how horribly inefficiently unusable it was the last time I used it a few months ago*).

The last "mobile version" I saw was based on the app. A tip if you don't have a tiny mobile screen is to manually select desktop mode when on your mobile. I've had mine that way for months. Not perfect .. but 100x better!

I've actually had a couple of sessions with their development team about future versions of the platform and also expressed how some things need to be changed and how some stuff could be fixed. They were VERY appreciative of the feedback I gave as i twas really constructive and I suggested some good improvements and how to do things more efficiently .. they've asked me a few times for more feedback .. but my time is rather limited .. maybe if they paid my trip/ticket to do an in person session with them at NamesCon I might say yes .. lol.

In all honesty the GD platform is really too big for them to manage properly .. soooo many glitches, bugs and simply incorrect and/or confusing information .. the site is EXTREMELY super molasses slow once you're tracking a serious number of domains. I reported a security hole over a year ago and it's still there!

As truly horrible as it is .. they do have an irresistible number of domains expiring every single day ... *IF* you put in the time and hard work, you can find some great domains at really good prices that other people missed because they didn't put in the work.

All that negativity aside .. I also sincerely not think there is any "evilness" or secret intentions at GoDaddy as a general rule of thumb. It's just that they are a huge platform with too many interlinking working parts. I think the problems stem from smaller things that were possibly overlooked at they grew and expanded .. and are now bigger issues because they didn't take the time or have the resources to truly comb through everything existing as they grow. A great example of this is simply their automated templates .. many of them are painfully confusing and unprecise .. probably because they simply copy/pasted text for similar situations, but didn't go through the entire texts. I've received emails where I thought I was the seller of a domain but was actually the buyer .. and vice versa .. lol. I feel sorry for those whose English isn't that strong.

 

[Ategy]

@Paul Nicks @Joe Styler
...no - it is not the first time I got beaten by a bot to a domain that was just available in closeout. It happened hundreds of times.

You have to watch their API bidding scripts. I put in a proxy bid $200 higher and the script bid up $20
every 5 minutes. I had to watch the screen 40 minutes to see the script pass my bid. I added another $200 bid higher and thankfully their script stopped bidding. They try to wear you down.

How do you guys know these are bots? I actually do that myself manually sometimes .. lol. AS LONG AS the API only has access to your last "active" bid (not your larger "proxy bid") then there is no real advantage here aside from the fact the robot doesn't need to take pee breaks! lol

*** VERY IMPORTANT ***:
That being said, I'm very curious to know what information the API does have access to. In a previous version of their mobile site .. there was actually a BUG/LOOPHOLE where YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEE THE HIGH BIDDER'S "HIDDEN" PROXY BID .. this logic flaw existed for many many months if not years (before I was actively domaining, and I was buying a couple of names a year just for potential development). I actually reported the problem, but it never got fixed .. the flaw only became "closed" when they revamped the website at some point. I'm very sure malicious sellers could have easily bid up their domain auction to an amount $1 below another bidder's supposedly secret "proxy" bid.

Now that I think about it .. I'm curious is that data still is somehow available .. either via a similar bug / flaw .. or through the API.

@Joe Styler & @Paul Nicks ..
1- What exactly are all the data fields available to the API?
2- Does the data returned to the API for "Highest bid" include the highest proxy bid, or just the current highest active bid (actual sale price if no more bidding)?

We don't release any stats on number of bidders, either via the website or API. I don't see how knowing a certain number of possible bidders changes the amount you are willing to pay for one specific domain.

I think what he meant was how many people in general have access to the API .. I'm curious about that number as well just to have an idea of how many people we're talking about.

@Paul Nicks...Can I use my one GD auctions account logged in to several computers at the same time to bid on auctions and buy closeout domains? Or would this activity set off any red flags in the auction system? ... Also, perhaps somewhat similarly, can two people be logged into the same GD Auctions account at the same time in different locations, and bid on different auctions on behalf of one entity, such two employees bidding on different domains for the company that own that auctions account?

I don't want to give you an official reply since I don't work for GD .. but I don't see any problems with anything you've mentioned. I have multiple tabs open during auction times. Sometimes I go to the couch and watch TV and make a bid on my cell phone (sometimes connected via wifi .. and sometimes via my cell provider).

Obviously as long as you aren't bidding on your own name.

Don't get me wrong but GD auctions have effectively become expired names auction website.
NameJet is winning it hands down.

As much as the mechanics of the GoDaddy platform makes me want to drive my head through a wall most of the time .. I'd have to disagree with you there in terms of a "buyer". GoDaddy has so many more buying opportunities at vastly better prices that aside from a few names listed at other platforms on @Domain Shane's blog, I rarely even bother with the other platforms.

You seriously need to give props where props are due .. and GoDaddy's selection of domains is seriously second to none.

Now .. as a seller .. I can see the frustration of where your domain could possibly (probably) get lost in the ocean of 50,000 other domains going through auction each day. In fact, due to obvious time constraints, I don't even look at domains with a starting price above $12 unless they already have bids. I'm sure a lot of buyers with limited time do the same thing.

 

[GeorgeQuang]

I don't know why, but when the GD Expired Auction goes to the last 5 minutes, there are tons of proxy bids/bot appear. They also appear after the 1st Bid.
Are those bidders bots ? or just proxy bids ? I don't think they are proxy bids. If you do a proxy bid, it will immediately bid in a domain, not to wait for the last 5 mins or when the 1st bid appear to bid against.

 

[Joe Styler]

Lots of people wait till the last minute to bid. There proxy bids wouldn't kick in until there are other bids that outbid them.
There are no other customer's info - bid or otherwise - revealed on the API.

 

[DomainNameShoppe]

You have to watch their API bidding scripts. I put in a proxy bid $200 higher and the script bid up $20
every 5 minutes. I had to watch the screen 40 minutes to see the script pass my bid. I added another $200 bid higher and thankfully their script stopped bidding. They try to wear you down.

How about Godaddy implement a texting message sent to my phone when my bid has been passed. Then I can take a lunch break in between bids.

lol this has happened to me on many occasions, I feel frustrate, very unfair, I want this script :D

 

[xynames]

The API option, if you’re willing to spend the money to develop it and have the access with very fast servers, doesn’t so much give you an advantage in sniping as potentially save you money per domain - which you hope that over time will recover your development investment.

With your own setup, you’re still not going to be able to grab a domain faster or better than say, SnapNames, just cheaper (because you’re no longer paying the backorder premium).

 

[Ategy]

@Joe Styler & @Paul Nicks ..
1- What exactly are all the data fields available to the API?
2- Does the data returned to the API for "Highest bid" include the highest proxy bid, or just the current highest active bid (actual sale price if no more bidding)?
3- I think what he meant was how many people in general have access to the API .. I'm curious about that number as well just to have an idea of how many people we're talking about?

@Joe Styler and/or @Paul Nicks ... Any chance you could answer my questions above from a few weeks ago?

Thanks