debate The domain industry is doomed: Will the industry ever unite, and say no to shady practices?

[Chris Hydrick]

Please share your thoughts.

 

[offthehandle]

Besides you, I wonder how many others here on Namepros are paying attention? During the July thread, there was a lot of participation. Now 5 months later, I am not sure how much attention is being paid- I am not sure the problems have simply disappeared- but morphed. I imagine there is a politically incorrect feeling from many people unwilling to comment, they are tired of the negative press (And rather read about a Million dollar sale, but no proof of it), etc.

If it wasn't for all the work you've put in on posting here of all the various scandals and situations and individuals, there wouldn't have been as much information available to decide where the problems are and the severity and if they are chronic or not. Then the coverup of past auction details that recently happened, I find sort of hardly amusing- as it is obviously makes the mess more opaque so you cannot dig further as easily as you have on past auctions.

I believe of the bloggers there are (4) in particular that do comment and support reporting of these situations being uncovered.

The challenges I see are in trusting the platforms you are bidding on and knowing who you are bidding against- unlike the real in person auction situations.

* The lack of bidder identification on some auctions remains a black cloud as to being able to monitor and potentially is covering up shill bidding.
** Online auctions exempt themselves from following standard industry auction practices, and as far as I can tell do not hold licenses to conduct auctions.

It's great when some of the bloggers outside of here post things as well. There are (4) websites/entities outside who seem to be interested in real reporting of what's going on.

1. @equity78 on Tldinvestors and Thedomains certainly participates in calling it like it is.

https://www.thedomains.com/2017/07/18/namepros-member-questions-people-bidding-auctions-namejet/

https://www.thedomains.com/2017/03/...jet-a-udrp-opinion-from-2015-you-should-read/

Interesting reading all the comments below on those articles.

2. I wish @Slanted Joseph Peterson would write again once and awhile as I miss reading his comments calling it like it is on various blogs such as Andrew Allemans Domain Name Wire.

https://domainnamewire.com/2017/07/25/shills-bidding-scandals/

https://domainnamewire.com/2015/12/31/zhuang-jia-chinese-pump-and-dump/ 2015

3. @OnlineDomainCom Konstantinos at onlinedomain calls it like is as well:

https://onlinedomain.com/2017/11/21...ame-auctions-disservice-domain-name-industry/

https://onlinedomain.com/2017/04/19...e-auction-bids-exactly-reserve-price-namejet/

https://onlinedomain.com/2017/07/20/domain-name-news/namejet-knows-auction-shill-bidding-now-past/

https://onlinedomain.com/2014/08/21...r-made-last-year-just-won-a-domain-i-dropped/

4. @Rick Schwartz Rick Schwartz certainly is outspoken and his comments I posted in this thread from his twitter comments:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/another-bidding-on-your-own-names.1050978/

 

[Chris Hydrick]

5. @Acroplex of DomainGang.com should also be included in the above list of bloggers. DomainGang is a much needed site that appears to have been birthed into the domain industry originating from some sort of big bang within the heavens matrix sent by the domain gods themselves. Programmed with possible missions to combat domain theft, and other shady practices, DG is powered by a vast wealth of industry experience, and a one of a kind sense of humor.

You can sometimes find Acro, and the other mentioned bloggers engaged in some hearty conversations via the comment section of the above mentioned blogs. One comment conversation I suggest reading is: https://www.thedomains.com/2015/11/...than-8k-left-out-of-1-million/#comment-210313

I am grateful for these bloggers.

 

[tetrapak]

Anybody remembers Halvarez?

 

[offthehandle]

Anybody remembers Halvarez?

Is it the same situation as now? I Read briefly about it, but way before my time. Also read about the ex sherpa show particpant / ex godaddy exec involved with auction nonsense and fleecing people.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Anybody remembers Halvarez?

Just added Halvarez to the thread tags. This was before my time as well, but I read that Halvarez (Hank Alvarez) was Nelson Brady, who was some VP at SnapNames.com

https://domainnamewire.com/2010/05/26/nelson-brady-comes-clean-in-response-to-snapnames-lawsuit/

https://techcrunch.com/2009/11/09/snapnames-gets-hit-with-class-action-suit-over-shill-bidding/

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Meanwhile, @James Iles deletes comments in his blog. His blog is constantly promoting sales from brokers surrounded by controversy. It's his right to delete comments, and promote whatever he wants. I'm just tired of drinking the kool-aid without first checking the ingredients.

 

[James Iles]

Meanwhile, @James Iles deletes comments in his blog.

You made what I considered to be accusations towards certain members of the industry that had very loose connections with what the blog post was about.

I really appreciate feedback and comments - your comments on the blog are usually fascinating and usually insightful. @Eric Lyon will testify that I am extremely averse to removing comments but I just felt that it was the wrong place to discuss such accusations.

His blog is constantly promoting sales from brokers surrounded by controversy.

I assume you're referring to the Detected Domains series? That is simply reporting on domain movements from some of the industry's most recognisable names. I report facts based on domain movement. That's all. There's no agenda, no attempt to promote certain brokers, etc.


I'd be happy to discuss this further with you via PM

 

[Chris Hydrick]

You made what I considered to be accusations towards certain members of the industry that had very loose connections with what the blog post was about.

I thought my comment was fairly detailed. I'm not sure which part of my comment you considered an accusation, or a loose connection.

I assume you're referring to the Detected Domains series? That is simply reporting on domain movements from some of the industry's most recognisable names. I report facts based on domain movement. That's all. There's no agenda, no attempt to promote certain brokers, etc.

Maybe I am mistaken, but it doesn't appear you have shed much light on the bidding on your own names at namejet thread. You haven't commented in that thread, so even though it seemed like a big deal, I suppose I shouldn't assume you took the time to read it.

In fairness, it also doesn't appear you shed much light on many controversial domain topics. From my POV it seems like you give certain people a spotlight, and in essence a news platform, while you neglect to comment on questionable activity. But maybe you have the right approach, and it's best to be oblivious to it all.

 

[tonyk2000]

Anybody remembers Halvarez?

As far as I remember (stats and $$$ value of subsequent refunds), the monetary value of his actions was not that big as the potential combined $$$ lost by domain investors on various venues with shady practices discovered in 2017.

Moreover, Snapnames did the right thing during that time and invited external auditor to review their system history and calculate refunds, which refunds also included reasonably calculated "interest" %%%. We are not anything close now in 2017.

If a domain investor has to accept the fact that he is or will be ripped off, and just needs to select whether this will happen in halvarez way or in year 2017 way - halvarez way is definitely the winner. Less $$$ lost. More transparency if and when discovered.

The last but not the least, it was determined that Nelson Brady "halvarez" was performing his "bidding activities" also right at the same time he participated in various domaining conferences as snapnames vp. Will the history repeat itself (in sense of conferences and what some participants might or will be doing from their laptops during dinner breaks or evenings etc)?

 

[tonyk2000]

Also, I would not expect any noticeable reaction from an "average" domaining blog, whether the blog can be considered as recognizable or not. Bloggers are not equal of course, but most are online to make money which is normal, and some are using shady practices to do so. A small example would be what banner ads are they posting. Since what time an IT professional recommends Endurance-owned webhosting companies for example, or promotes "hosting review" websites with fake comments dedicated to sell this or that Endurance-owned brand? Isn't he aware that Endurance is here just to buy good hosting companies and downgrade them, so there appeared a term "non-EIG hosting" commonly used in appropriate sections (host requests) of professional webhosting industry forums? May be it is because the blogger is either not an IT professional at all (but elects to represent himeself as such), or is it because of $150 CPA he is paid by EiG?
And there are a lot more services promoted by domain bloggers via banners or affiliate links that simply should never be touched.
How professional is this?
Lack of bloggers professionalism makes me think that there is no basis to expect anything from an "average" domaining blog on thread subject.

 

[promo]

In fairness, it also doesn't appear you shed much light on many controversial domain topics. From my POV it seems like you give certain people a spotlight, and in essence a news platform, while you neglect to comment on questionable activity. But maybe you have the right approach, and it's best to be oblivious to it all.

I think you will find that any reputable journalist will want sources and a red thread before he starts throwing around accusations and insinuations. That clearly does not hold you back, so you have one up on the people held back by journalistic standards. They probably contemplate what their writings can mean for other people in advance, so they do not throw around accusations without merit and for the heck off it. I seem to recall many many of your postings headed by "not saying anything, just throwing this out there and see if something sticks". Real journalists would never do that, since they have respect for what they are doing.

Before your fan boys descend on me about all the good your are doing. Then let me just get this out of the way. I dont care what they think. I think you are a hack, wanna be investigator and attention seeker. You post stuff that does not prove anything and make insinuations that you never care to further prove or draw back.

The domain industry were here decades before you joined and it will be here after you leave. No doom or gloom. I guess for a self appointed messiah that has only been here a short while it would seem that doom is impending. Rest of us have seen worse.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

You post stuff that does not prove anything and make insinuations that you never care to further prove or draw back.

What exactly have I not cared to further prove or draw back?

I can say the same thing about you pertaining to the accusation you made on page three of the bidding of your own names at namejet thread HERE

@MediaOptionsI dont want to go into a head to head with you on this. I am myself a party to behind the scenes info on this and I would prefer to keep out as much as possible.
Two things though:
1: I know you cant teach business ethics to someone who does not want to hear it.
2: its against the TOS you agreed to when you signed up at NJ. I know you do it yourself since its not more than 3 months since you bid on one of your LLL.COMs you had another seller put up. Not sure what came of that and frankly at this point I dont care.

 

[promo]

Please you had to go back to page 1 to find something to shot back at me with?

The difference is I dont make light of accusations and do not make them before I have irrefutable proof of what I am saying is true. You might have noticed the person I made that statement about, did not deny it in any way?

You on the other hand have no time for business it seems. You post 12 different doxing crusades per day and frankly I hope you know you made exactly zero difference other than seriously pissing on various peoples rep.

 

[Chris Hydrick]

Please you had to go back to page 1 to find something to shot back at me with?

No, I went to page three. If I were to go to page one, I would question your accusation that they forgot to log into their shilling accounts. What shilling accounts?

Give em a break. They forgot to log into their shilling accounts..

To my knowledge, it has yet to be revealed which 3L.com he bid on that he had another seller put up. Have you alerted @NameJetGM of the domain? Do you think they would care? If for some reason your accusation(s) are deemed incorrect, do you think that new detail will change some people's outlook on the situation?

 

[biggie]

The domain industry is doomed: Will the industry ever unite, and say no to shady practices?

is the sky falling, again?

cuz, it has fallen before.

though it will never unite...
the "industry" is not doomed

competition is the great divider.
and greed is the motivator for scandal

it's what humans do

imo...

 

[Silentptnr]

@Grilled Thanks for the thread. Based on the general nature of the title and your first post simply inviting comments....I'm not sure where the attacks here came from.

From my reading, I sincerely appreciate your involvement and fact finding efforts to help those who have been wronged or damaged.

Keep up the good work. It shows that there are people in the industry that truly care without any ulterior motives.

 

[Internet.Domains]

2017 saw the birth of a new domain industry slogan...."YOU GOT GRILLED"......I presume we will see more of this in 2018. Well done @Grilled. Keep em' honest.

 

[Acroplex]

Anybody remembers Halvarez?

Just go to HankAlvarez.com

@Grilled Funny revisiting those old threads. 6N's have been dropping and being picked up by the Chinese. There's a market for everything.

 

[offthehandle]

I am sure I forgot to mention others but one blog in particular that has valuable sales data much of which focuses on End Users is Dotweekly.com, Jamie Zoch reports on transactions to entities, corporations, and the proxy buyers like Marksmen. I personally find the sales results to the corporate end user, non domain investor purchased sales to be the ones I want to watch for.

http://dotweekly.com/domain-movers-minuteman-com-clothing-com/

In the comments he mentions Pfizer was the previous owner of Slept.com which actually let the name drop which was caught and just sold on Dropcatch.com for $3251. (Namebio.com is where I got the price) That sort of detail is interesting.

 

[offthehandle]

Hack? Grilled has posted hard data and proven many things here on this forum and he has had the huevos to call out those who are unethical. He was threatened and posted that. He has worked since July and posted screenshots of questionable activity and demonstrating duplicate ID’s, Shill bidders, bot behavior, ton’s of data and hours he has invested. Then the one platform of primary interest shut down their sales history, I believe in direct response to his uncovering all the nonsense so he couldn’t find out even more.

@Grilled has nothing to sell except his domains he owns, he has no sales website that I know of, no advertising income to protect, not brokering other peoples names, not some brand embassador, and unlike some people he isn’t around bragging about how many twitter followers he has.

The amount of pom-pom waving, back scratching, fraternity club behavior, hype, hoopla, touting, partnering, and embellishing that goes on in domaining exposed here and various domain blogs is frankly obvious. There are only a few people on this forum calling out the nonsense.

 

[promo]

Hack? Grilled has posted hard data and proven many things here on this forum and he has had the huevos to call out those who are unethical. He was threatened and posted that. He has worked since July and posted screenshots of questionable activity and demonstrating duplicate ID’s, Shill bidders, bot behavior, ton’s of data and hours he has invested. Then the one platform of primary interest shut down their sales history, I believe in direct response to his uncovering all the nonsense so he couldn’t find out even more.

@Grilled has nothing to sell except his domains he owns, he has no sales website that I know of, no advertising income to protect, not brokering other peoples names, not some brand embassador, and unlike some people he isn’t around bragging about how many twitter followers he has.

The amount of pom-pom waving, back scratching, fraternity club behavior, hype, hoopla, touting, partnering, and embellishing that goes on in domaining exposed here and various domain blogs is frankly obvious. There are only a few people on this forum calling out the nonsense.

Thank you for that offthehandle. Glad you recognized your "pom-pom waving, back scratching, fraternity club, hype, hoopla, touting, partnering, and embellishing" behaviour and finally recognize me as being one of "only a few people on this forum calling out the nonsense".

Its was a little discomforting seeing you sucking up to the people you believe are the gurus (after being in the industry for a whole 12 months) and then telling the rest of us we are back scratchers. Finally you see your own behaviour as the rest of us does.

Good on you.

Though not sure what hard data you are referring to. I know Grilled has come out as a diehard advocate for a proven thief? Is that what you are talking about? Telling people it was OK he stole from people since he served in the army or something? Is that the unethical behaviour you are talking about?

 

[Silentptnr]

Thank you for that offthehandle. Glad you recognized your "pom-pom waving, back scratching, fraternity club behavior, hype, hoopla, touting, partnering, and embellishing" behaviour and finally recognize me as being one of "only a few people on this forum calling out the nonsense".

Its was a little discomforting seeing you sucking up to the people you believe are the gurus (after being in the industry for a whole 12 months) and then telling the rest of us we are back scratchers. Finally you see your own behaviour as the rest of us does.

Good on you.

Though not sure what hard data you are referring to. I know Grilled has come out as a diehard advocate for a proven thief? Is that what you are talking about? Telling people it was OK he stole from people since he served in the army or something? Is that the unethical behaviour you are talking about?

I don't have any input as to the "history" or sorts that is apparently coming out here.

I do know that the thread could be constructive for everyone if it stays on topic. The question of Will The Industry Ever Unite And Say No To Shady Practices?, deserves discussion.

I don't know the answer because we haven't even yet defined "Say No". I don't fully know what that means. I think most everyone is against shady practices. Question is, what can be done? What does a person have to do to "Say No" to shady practices?

I don't see this thread being about calling people out or resuming some previous debate. I'd like to talk about what can be done to unite, or define a standard that protects everyone.

 

[Internet.Domains]

The irony is the question was asked,

"Will the industry ever unite, and say no to shady practices?"

and then the person asking the question was attacked.

 

[hawkeye]

...what can be done to unite, or define a standard that protects everyone.

That's easy, the one thing everyone doesn't want - Government regulation. Because if anyone thinks that a 'self governing' honor system of an industry that encompasses anyone with $10 in the whole world is the answer, there's a bridge in Brooklyn they should look into buying.