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Bidding on your own names at NameJet...?

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Once in awhile I see people bidding on their own domains at NJ. I would think it would be frowned upon.

Today's seems more obvious than normal. Or am I missing something here?

Airlinejobs.com owned by Andy Booth at Booth.com and high bidder is BQDNcom (James Booth).

3 bids down we see Boothcom as a bidder.

Same thing with MovieZone.com. Owned by Andy Booth in which he currently appears to be the high bidder.

High Bid: $2,475 USD by boothcom

They actually won their own domain airplanesforsale.com. Im guessing it didnt get as high as they wanted so needed to protect it.

Bidder Amount Date
bqdncom $2,001 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
boothcom $1,950 7/17/2017 12:23 PM
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
AfternicAfternic
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Hi all - Thanks for the heads-up. We are currently investigating this matter. We obviously do not condone any kind of shill bidding on NameJet, so we take this very seriously. I will post an update when I have one. Thanks again.

-JT
Also look into yesterday's AirplanesForSale.com auction, please. I lost out to James Booth (bqdncom), but boothcom was bidding during the final minutes too. I'm worried collusion & perhaps more was going on as it could have been their domain to begin with from what I'm reading here. Thanks.
 
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Also look into yesterday's AirplanesForSale.com auction, please. I lost out to James Booth (bqdncom), but boothcom was bidding during the final minutes too. I'm worried collusion & perhaps more was going on as it could have been their domain to begin with from what I'm reading here. Thanks.

March 16th, 2017 - the domain was owned by Andy Booth.

Current WHOIS - shows the domain owned by James Booth.
 
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I just won AirplanesForSale.com and guess what it got charged on my card straight away with fees. I have my own company and my own domains. I have bid against my brother on several names at Namejet. JLZ.com, MDO.com for example. Find something better to moan about. From what I understand Andy sold a bunch of names to someone who lists most of their names at Namejet with no reserves. If you can win a name back for a fraction of the price why wouldnt you. I guarantee most people would do that.
 
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I just won AirplanesForSale.com and guess what it got charged on my card straight away with fees.

The thing is, it was in Booth.com name (edit) prior to auction end. I looked up about 7 of these domains a week ago when I entered my bids. There are several auctions posted here that have not yet ended and are in Andy's name.

Whatever the reason may be, would you say that looks suspicious?
 
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I will wait until more comes out, but you can't blame people for being suspicious.

The whois says Andy Booth for both MovieZone.com and WrestlingWorld.com. These are both currently in auction. The leading bids are from boothcom and bqdncom on those domains. Something clearly does not make sense.

Brad
 
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Hi all - Thanks for the heads-up. We are currently investigating this matter. We obviously do not condone any kind of shill bidding on NameJet, so we take this very seriously. I will post an update when I have one. Thanks again.

-JT
Let the community know.:xf.smile:
 
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Hi all - Thanks for the heads-up. We are currently investigating this matter. We obviously do not condone any kind of shill bidding on NameJet, so we take this very seriously. I will post an update when I have one. Thanks again.

-JT

Wow. I knew your company played favoritism, but I did not know you let people bid on their own domains. :xf.cool:
 
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this has to be investigated thorougly
 
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Apparently Andrew Rosener thinks it's ok to bid on your own domain names, Well I would say Jonathan @NameJetGM you better clarify that.

From TheDomains:


  1. Andrew Rosener says

    July 18, 2017 at 4:43 pm

    If a domain is listed for sale with no reserve I actually donโ€™t see the problem with an owner bidding for the domain. In a state tax auction or any other type of asset forfeiture auction it is standard that creditors or prior owners would be bidding in the auction right up against other unrelated bidders.

    As long as they have to pay cold hard cash to buy the name back like everyone else, then where is the problem? They are creating no economic damage. In fact it is just another form of โ€œreserveโ€ pricing and actually is more economically accurate and beneficial to the market.

    With a reserve auction, nobody wins if the auction doesnโ€™t hit reserve. You do not even get an accurate picture of the market value of the asset because the bids donโ€™t mean ANYTHING until they are over the reserve. At least with a no-reserve auction where the owner is allowed to bid, you have real economic advantage and productivity. The owner must authentically create a value threshold. If owner buys it back, the auction house still gets their commission creating economic benefit. The market gets a true picture of the value of the asset. And the owner re-acquires the asset that they value higher than the market does.

    When you have any deal for ANYTHING and you have a bonafide buyer and a seller at the table then one of them will walk away with the property and one will walk away with the money but BOTH the property and money are on the table and up for grabs by either party. Read that again because its important. If the โ€œSellerโ€ doesnโ€™t accept the offer from the buyer than, in essence, they have just paid whatever price the buyer offered to buy their own property back. Quite literally, there is no buyer and no seller, there are only two parties (or more in the case of an auction) who assign value to a particular piece of property. One party has money (or other consideration) and one party has the property. At that exact moment in time, you have two parties who each need to decide if they value the offered money or the property higher. One walks away with the property and one with the money. Its really that simple.

    Example:

    Lets say that we put Murphy.com for sale in auction or in a straight listing and we receive an offer of $150,000 for the domain. We have have only two options and outcomes:

    1. We accept the offer, transfer the domain and walk away with $150,000
    2. โ€œBuyโ€ the domain for $150,000 ourselves (by turning down the bonafide offer of $150k)

    This may not be immediately obvious to most folks but every time you say โ€œNOโ€ to an offer, what you did was buy your asset or property or contract for whatever the offer price was that you turned down.

    If an auction has a reserve price and the owner is bidding below the reserve price then that is a totally different story. I actually donโ€™t necessarily see the issue with an owner bidding below the reserve either just to create โ€œmomentumโ€ in the auction, but since the domain can not be sold below the reserve anyhow, it is not financially harming anyone involved. But I fully understand that this practice is more controversial and does create some false illusion of the value of the asset in the event it does not sell.

    Outside of the domain industry it is common practice that an owner would be able to bid for their own asset in lieu of setting a reserve. If they buy the property back they still have to pay the full commission to the auction house or broker. Again, that is real money paid and keep in mind that if they had let the #2 bidder win, that would have been money in their pocket. So the price paid is actually HIGHER than anyone else would have paid because they are paying the purchase price (opportunity cost) PLUS the auction commission (actual out of pocket cash). If that makes any senseโ€ฆ

    So while Iโ€™m sure my post will cause controversy, I must say, I think it is silly to worry about owners bidding on their own domains in either scenario. The only ones you need to worry about are the auction houses themselves and making sure there is no INTERNAL shill bidding (like Halvarez).
 
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@equity78 That is an interesting way of looking at it. While I still don't agree with the practice, he brings some valid points.

And ahh... Halvarez... that brings back memories.
 
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Come on now @zurc.net . Valid points?

Yeah they are valid.. Like the US president makes valid points..

If you are selling a domain name, dont bid on it. Easy as that. You can convolute and deflect sure. But anyone with half a brain knows whats right and whats not.
 
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we all have opninions

somtimes maybe the answer whether its right or wrong lies in the fact how many places do and do not allow it.
 
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Okay, so I have bought meatloafrecipe.com on NJ, while LACollege has gone to user 411. The strange part is despite leading, booth brothers didn't make any follow on bids thanks to this thread.
 
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I want to start off saying EXPLICITLY that I am NOT supporting or against Andy or James Booth with this comment. I do in fact think they are putting their foot in their respective mouths with the way they are responding to these accusations whether they are true or not. But thats not the point.

With that being said, from a more philosophical point of view and a matter of interest and best practices; and a topic I give a lot of thought to, I personally do not find any fault or problem with an owner bidding on his own domain or other property in auction.

Here is a comment I just posted on TheDomains article about this topic which explains my perspective (I will comment and criticism as long as constructive. The first person to act like a troll I'm out and will no longer participate in this dialogue). Here are my thoughts:

If a domain is listed for sale with no reserve I actually donโ€™t see the problem with an owner bidding for the domain. In a city tax auction or any other type of asset forfeiture auction it is standard that creditors or prior owners would be bidding in the auction right up against other unrelated bidders. Very standard.

As long as they have to pay cold hard cash to buy the name back like everyone else, then where is the problem? They are creating no economic damage, in fact they are actually creating benefit to the overall market. In fact it is just another form of โ€œreserveโ€ pricing and actually is more economically accurate and beneficial to the market.

With a reserve auction, nobody wins if the auction doesnโ€™t hit reserve. You do not even get an accurate picture of the market value of the asset because the bids donโ€™t mean ANYTHING until they are over the reserve. At least with a no-reserve auction where the owner is allowed to bid, you have real economic advantage and productivity. The owner must authentically create a value threshold. If owner buys it back, the auction house still gets their commission creating economic benefit. The market gets a true picture of the value of the asset. And the owner re-acquires the asset that they value higher than the market does.

When you have any deal for ANYTHING and you have a bonafide buyer and a seller at the table then one of them will walk away with the property and one will walk away with the money; but BOTH the property and money are on the table and up for grabs by either party. Read that again because its important.

If the โ€œSellerโ€ doesnโ€™t accept the offer from the buyer than, in essence, they have just paid whatever price the buyer offered to buy their own property back. Quite literally, there is no buyer and no seller, there are only two parties (or more in the case of an auction) who assign value to a particular piece of property. One party has money (or other consideration) and one party has the property. At that exact moment in time, you have two equal parties who each need to decide if they value the offered money or the property higher. One walks away with the property and one with the money. Its really that simple. Either party has an equal chance at both.

Example:

Lets say that we put Murphy.com for sale in auction or in a straight listing and we receive an offer of $150,000 for the domain. We have have only two options and possible outcomes:

1. We accept the offer, transfer the domain and walk away with $150,000 (in this case we become the Seller).

2. โ€œBuyโ€ the domain for $150,000 ourselves (In this case we become the Buyer; by turning down the bonafide offer of $150k we in essence bought it ourselves for that price).

This may not be immediately obvious to most folks but every time you say โ€œNOโ€ to an offer, what you did was buy your asset or property or contract for whatever the offer price was that you turned down.

If an auction has a reserve price and the owner is bidding below the reserve price then that is a totally different story. I actually donโ€™t necessarily see the issue with an owner bidding below the reserve either just to create โ€œmomentumโ€ in the auction, but since the domain can not be sold below the reserve anyhow, it is not financially harming anyone involved. But I fully understand that this practice is more controversial and does create some false illusion of the value of the asset in the event it does not sell.

Outside of the domain industry it is common practice that an owner would be able to bid for their own asset in lieu of setting a reserve. If they buy the property back they still have to pay the full commission to the auction house or broker. Again, that is real money paid and keep in mind that if they had let the #2 bidder win, that would have been real money in their pocket (opportunity cost). So the price paid by the owner is actually HIGHER than anyone else would have paid because they are paying the purchase price (opportunity cost) PLUS the auction commission (actual out of pocket cash). If that makes any senseโ€ฆ

So while Iโ€™m sure my post will cause controversy, I must say, I think it is silly to worry about owners bidding on their own domains in either scenario. The only ones you need to worry about are the auction houses themselves and making sure there is no INTERNAL shill bidding (like Halvarez). But Namejet is NOT a problem and in my opinion the single most liquid marketplace in our industry and an incredibly valuable asset to this industry.

@NameJetGM
 
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If a domain is listed for sale with no reserve I actually donโ€™t see the problem with an owner bidding for the domain. In a state tax auction or any other type of asset forfeiture auction it is standard that creditors or prior owners would be bidding in the auction right up against other unrelated bidders.

Isn't asset forfeiture auctions a bit different than domain auctions, in that, the owner (who may bid at auction) isn't actually the owner of the item anymore due to whatever caused said asset to be forfeited? (note: I'm only referencing this knowledge from Happy Gilmore. See below)


 
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Isn't asset forfeiture auctions a bit different than domain auctions, in that, the owner (who may bid at auction) isn't actually the owner of the item anymore due to whatever caused said asset to be forfeited? (note: I'm only referencing this knowledge from Happy Gilmore. See below)


Precisely, it is comparing Apples and Apple.
 
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Come on now @zurc.net . Valid points?

Yeah they are valid.. Like the US president makes valid points..

If you are selling a domain name, dont bid on it. Easy as that. You can convolute and deflect sure. But anyone with half a brain knows whats right and whats not.
The comparison to individuals bidding on their auctioned property... yes, I know there's a difference. Usually it's another party that owns and is auctioning the property, but the comparison is there.

I actually had a family member that invested heavily into the real estate market before the crease and bought back all his properties at a fraction of their original cost after he lost them during the melt down. Made a killing.

This domain scenario just seems too suspicious and close to collusion for comfort, but let's see what NameJet finds.
 
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The only thing that matters are NJ rules on this. They said "Please do not backorder your own domains, as this is strictly forbidden." Maybe @NameJetGM can clarify for everybody that you're not supposed to bid on your own names. That seems obvious, since allowing such practices is a good way to wreck the business. We could poll this but again, I imagine the overwhelming majority would not be ok with owners bidding up their own names. It would be a Captain Obvious type poll.
 
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Come on now @zurc.net . Valid points?

Yeah they are valid.. Like the US president makes valid points..

If you are selling a domain name, dont bid on it. Easy as that. You can convolute and deflect sure. But anyone with half a brain knows whats right and whats not.

@promo At no point did I say I support the practice or that I think Namejet should support the practice. I'm posting my thoughts on the topic because it is actually something I think about often. Before you post negative comments, you should think about this more as well. Did you read what I wrote?

I would HIGHLY encourage anyone who has a constructive criticism of my thoughts to explain why my assumptions are wrong. I truly encourage a constructive dialogue on the topic.

In fact, I would actually LOVE to see this post and this discussion lead to industry norms. Wouldn't that be amazing? A consensus of industry participants through open discussion leading to the creation of industry norms and standards? Especially if they were well thought out and backed by real economic theory?

What exactly about my thoughts do you disagree with? Please don't answer that you simply disagree at face value. That is not constructive.

The only argument that I can come up with against my theory is sour grapes because without the owner bidding they would have won or without the owner bidding they would have won for a cheaper price. But that is NOT a sound argument. An auction is all about free market capitalism. If you value the property higher than the owner then you win. If you don't then you lose. Sour grapes doesn't play a part in right or wrong.
 
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