Another "Bidding on your own names" ???

[offthehandle]

Anybody else see this just now?

This nonsense is beyond palatable. The Bidder 1, Bidder 2, Bidder 3 stuff- please....

Read the latest tweets Rick Schwartz has written about expired auctions.

 

[wwwweb]

Anybody else see this just now?

This nonsense is beyond palatable. The Bidder 1, Bidder 2, Bidder 3 stuff- please....

Read the latest tweets Rick Schwartz has written about expired auctions.

He also bid 5 figures for a name, then it got renewed.

Show attachment 73488

This is a different story, as godaddy usernames are not shown, and if it was an expiring auction the proceeds would profit godaddy, not the domain bidder, unless they were bidding to artificially inflate the closing price of a domain before they renew it, that is where namebio has to X those reportings.

 

[offthehandle]

This is a different story, as godaddy usernames are not shown, and if it was an expiring auction the proceeds would profit godaddy,

He just stated the sales rep told him "That they have no problem with people bidding on their own domains in their auctions"

I understand the renewal problems. They suck. But the system is being gamed, no doubt. Domainers are at fault.

 

[JB Lions]

I guess they mean expired auction, where they're trying to get back their own name or the name they didn't renew on time?

Is this what he was talking about:
I suggested to @GoDaddy rep that only way timing could be so perfect that registrant could renew at exact same time as the end of auction is the last bidder would’ve had to be the owner to give them five minutes to renew. That was when I learned owners can bid on own #Domains!!

There are 7 day auctions people can start, there should be no bidding whatsoever by the owner on those. With those others, maybe they should just renew and pay the price and no bidding on those.

 

[offthehandle]

"I"m on a mission" : @Rick Schwartz

Thanks Rick!!!

 

[wwwweb]

I totally agree nobody should ever bid on their own domain auctions. In the case of Godaddy I believe some people may find instead of paying the $90 redemption fee, they can buy their domain back for $20 via closeouts, or domain auction minimum bid. This would be a small case of users who accidently let their domain expire

For those that are bidding on their own expired domains to increase the artificial price of it, it does take two, and if the domain does close, and does not get renewed only godaddy profits from this. If they renew the domain, then there has to be more pressure on companies that report domain sales to make sure they get it right, and the name actually changes hands.

Otherwise there is nothing new here, this is stuff Rick, and others have known about for years in regards to those names that can still be renewed for about a week after they close, it has been talked about many times. I guess this time it just bit him on the wrong day.

 

[offthehandle]

I totally agree nobody should ever bid on their own domain auctions. In the case of Godaddy I believe some people may find instead of paying the $90 redemption fee, they can buy their domain back for $20 via closeouts, or domain auction minimum bid. This would be a small case of users who accidently let their domain expire

For those that are bidding on their own expired domains to increase the artificial price of it, it does take two, and if the domain does close, and does not get renewed only godaddy profits from this. If they renew the domain, then there has to be more pressure on companies that report domain sales to make sure they get it right, and the name actually changes hands.

Otherwise there is nothing new here, this is stuff Rick, and others have known about for years in regards to renewing at the last minute.

Thanks for commenting. I have been very frustrated with the "expired-name-now-I-will-buy-it-back" scheme. Hit me like 5 times, and that is why I no longer use those platforms that do the "clawbacks".

The $90 fee should be $500! If someone cannot afford their portfolio and money problems, tough sh*t.
I have wasted my time and energy enough bidding then the renewal occurs.

Sellers bidding on their own names at the last minute? How can this be also occurring just like the other platform? First I heard.

Just was alerted to this:
https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rick-schwartz-i-am-the-new-owner-of-godaddyblows-com/

 

[wwwweb]

It happend to be so many times, you tend to figure out which domain owners are going to renew, and which is a real drop after a while, not always absolute, but there were many large holders on there who were just going thru the motions with this. It has slowed down a bit, but does happen from time to time, like I said it has been talked about to death, nothing ever came of it.

At the end of the day, Godaddy will only make changes when it affects their bottomline, and if enough users detest this policy, they will stop using the platform, and then then Godaddy will have to change, but if everyone who complains keeps going there, and bidding what does it matter?

 

[offthehandle]

but if everyone who complains keeps going there, and bidding what does it matter?

I am done with it, but would return if the policy changed.

Since you spent a lot of time there, maybe you might shed some light on the outside promotions. I find it interesting too that GD auctions can be promoted outside of Godaddy on a paid basis from Godaddy (Pay per click to promoters, that's fine.)- and the seller can advertise their name and pay $10 (great idea, that's fine)- BUT.... perhaps those ones are also ones that are simply being gamed and renewed? GoDaddy auction cookies, click on the link- expose your interest in the name, etc. like this comment:

 

[wwwweb]

...

 

[Ategy]

There is a big moral/ethical/legal argument as well .. that isn't limited to GoDaddy but to ALL platforms selling expired domains. The real question is: WHO actually owns these domains?

1- If it's the actual person who registered the domains then the profits should go to them!
2- If it's the auction platform, then the domain should belong to them and no longer be renewable!

The way it is now the auction platforms are theoretically selling something that does not yet even belong to them.

I actually think ICANN should explore this issue further and maybe even regulate how domains can be auctioned .. much how there are plenty of laws and rules in place when it comes to real world property.


There are so many things wrong with GoDaddy on so many levels. What doesn't help is that transparency in auctions there is the equivalent of a brick wall. Also .. they are way too big for their own good .. a "rep" could easily end up telling you something that wasn't true or actual policy .. not because they are deliberately lying .. but more because they just don't have the accurate information and are guessing (this actually happened to me TODAY on a separate issue)

I've talked to a few people at GoDaddy over the last year .. I've suggested minor tweaks to the auction timing to minimise some issues .. all I get is the cookie cutter "we're working on something to make things better" reply .. without actually getting any details. The only vague time frame I got was later this year .. (and that was much earlier this year)

At the end of the day the only thing I can advise to people buying at auction (including myself) .. is ALWAYS assume possible fraud .. and only buy a domain if YOU think the purchase price is worth it to YOU!

 

[equity78]

I totally agree nobody should ever bid on their own domain auctions. In the case of Godaddy I believe some people may find instead of paying the $90 redemption fee, they can buy their domain back for $20 via closeouts, or domain auction minimum bid. This would be a small case of users who accidently let their domain expire

For those that are bidding on their own expired domains to increase the artificial price of it, it does take two, and if the domain does close, and does not get renewed only godaddy profits from this. If they renew the domain, then there has to be more pressure on companies that report domain sales to make sure they get it right, and the name actually changes hands.

Otherwise there is nothing new here, this is stuff Rick, and others have known about for years in regards to those names that can still be renewed for about a week after they close, it has been talked about many times. I guess this time it just bit him on the wrong day.

But you can transfer out instead of bidding on your own name.

 

[equity78]

From an interview I did with Paul Nicks years ago, @msdomainer left a comment about the 45 day rule. Paul replied:

Ms Domainer, re: the 42/45 day question:
Good question and one that I sincerely hope I can clarify. First, I’ll underscore a point I made in the interview, we created the system to give our registrants the ability to keep or redeem their name as long as possible. With that as the backdrop, hopefully the following explanation will make more sense.
For many TLDs we are given a grace period of up to 45 days after expiration to decide whether to keep or drop a domain. On the 25th day after expiration, after three attempts to contact the registrant, we put our expiring inventory onto the Go Daddy Auctions platform to see if any of our other customers are interested in acquiring them. During the entire time a domain is at auction the current registrant is able to redeem that domain, albeit for a fee.
On the 42nd day we will cancel the domain name if no other customer has expressed an interest in it via either the auction system or a Go Daddy backorder. If, however, a customer has expressed an interest via either of these platforms we will move the domain to their account on day 43. Since the domain is still in the Go Daddy ecosystem we do allow, in rare circumstances, the original registrant to get the domain back via our redemption system up until day 45 which signifies the end of the grace period.
Our help documentation (http://support.godaddy.com/help/art...s-for-handling-expired-domain-names?locale=en) specifies day 42 for deletion because our registrants need to understand that if they do not redeem prior to that date they could lose their domain forever. However, we will continue to err on the side of the registrant when it comes to the edge cases where a domain owner calls asking whether they can get their domain back after day 42.
I hope that helps ease any confusion around this topic.
-Paul

 

[wwwweb]

But you can transfer out instead of bidding on your own name.

Not everyone knows this, and if privacy is enabled you cannot disable privacy after 17 day grace expiry, you have to redeem for $90, or buy it back.

 

[Ategy]

Here's an interesting question ...

How much does GoDaddy make per year via auctions?
How much of that is from expiring domains?
Is that public information?

 

[Lox]

There is a big moral/ethical/legal argument

There is no Domainers Code of Conduct so follow a predefined path like OneSRS (read carefully)

ICANN expired deletion policy 3.7.5.2 allowing registrars to renew a domain name without the explicit consent of the registrant ...

 

[offthehandle]

Auctioning off domains before they have completely become available for re-registration is the problem. IMHO. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Once the 30 day "Redemption Grace Period" has elapsed per existing ICANN rules on Day 31 (Pending Delete start date, where the blue arrow ends on the diagram), it should go to auction. This prevents registrant gaming or registrant remorse. The current registrar can then auction it in Pending Delete and avoid the previous registrants renewal and the drop. The final hammer falls on the 4th day of the auction during the pending delete prior to the drop.
5th day funds secured by Registrar, since the buyers at the auction were prefunded accounts to pay so the Registrar/Registry is not put in financial limbo. Done.

http://archive.icann.org/en/registrars/gtld-lifecycle.jpg

After 3 billing attempts- normal people are not going to ignore the renewal. After receiving 3 reminder emails it is simply a "Dog ate my homework" excuse and the mentality is complete nonsense. I say it's domainers who are gaming the system- so after those 3 emails, that is 3 strikes- but that last email should arrive before auction time and a cutoff date. Period. You lost the name. Poof.

 

[wwwweb]

Here's an interesting question ...

How much does GoDaddy make per year via auctions?
How much of that is from expiring domains?
Is that public information?

In 2011 Godaddy was sold for $2.25B, in 2017 it is nearing a market cap of $10B, that has been a great 6 years for sure.

 

[kam]

From an interview I did with Paul Nicks years ago, @msdomainer left a comment about the 45 day rule. Paul replied:

Ms Domainer, re: the 42/45 day question:
Good question and one that I sincerely hope I can clarify. First, I’ll underscore a point I made in the interview, we created the system to give our registrants the ability to keep or redeem their name as long as possible. With that as the backdrop, hopefully the following explanation will make more sense.
For many TLDs we are given a grace period of up to 45 days after expiration to decide whether to keep or drop a domain. On the 25th day after expiration, after three attempts to contact the registrant, we put our expiring inventory onto the Go Daddy Auctions platform to see if any of our other customers are interested in acquiring them. During the entire time a domain is at auction the current registrant is able to redeem that domain, albeit for a fee.
On the 42nd day we will cancel the domain name if no other customer has expressed an interest in it via either the auction system or a Go Daddy backorder. If, however, a customer has expressed an interest via either of these platforms we will move the domain to their account on day 43. Since the domain is still in the Go Daddy ecosystem we do allow, in rare circumstances, the original registrant to get the domain back via our redemption system up until day 45 which signifies the end of the grace period.
Our help documentation (http://support.godaddy.com/help/art...s-for-handling-expired-domain-names?locale=en) specifies day 42 for deletion because our registrants need to understand that if they do not redeem prior to that date they could lose their domain forever. However, we will continue to err on the side of the registrant when it comes to the edge cases where a domain owner calls asking whether they can get their domain back after day 42.
I hope that helps ease any confusion around this topic.
-Paul

I suggested you read the story I shared.

===============================================

In legal aspect.

Protecting the weak party has been one of the cornerstones of the development of contract law over the past century.

When a customer come to an agreement with a vendor or service provider, they have Inequality of bargaining power. The customer always had 'no say' to the term and condition. When bargaining power is persistently unequal, the concept of inequality of bargaining power serves as a justification for the implication of mandatory terms into contracts by law, or the non-enforcement of a contract by the courts. The consequence is the unreasonable term and condition can be voidable.

Details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inequality_of_bargaining_power

When the registrar run a expired domain auction business, they are taking an advantage over their customer and therefore the term and condition can be voidable. In order to avoid this from happening, the registrar had to demonstrated they are carry out their business through due diligence and in a reasonable manner.

They have to minimize the conflict of interests with the original registrant in order to demonstrated they are carry out their business through due diligence.

Therefore, the registrar will choose to use some standard deadline which is not controlled by them, in order to showed they are bona fide to deemed their customer no longer want their domain.

The registrar are likely use the registry full grace period as a deadline. It's because it involved an addition restore fee set by another parties (The registry). If the customer didn't renew it within the full grace period, the registrar has a reasonable ground to believed the customer are unlikely to renew it, it's because they had to pay an extra fee to the registry.

That's the reason why the 'full grace period' is become so important. Most of the registrars are in fact using it to protect their business and make their expired domain auction business much more legitimate. They can use the above 2 reasons to defense themselves when they fall into lawsuit.


In my case, My registrar claimed that they are providing a 'full grace period', but they didn't complied with it. Just because they are so greedy.

The whole story is available @ https://www.namepros.com/threads/dont-buy-icelandic-tv-until-the-problem-solved.1000670/

 

[offthehandle]

That's the reason why the 'full grace period' is become so important. Most of the registrars are in fact using it to protect their business and make their expired domain auction business much more legitimate. They can use the above 2 reasons to defense themselves when they fall into lawsuit.

I read your story, however in the first sentence you omitted a key detail as to why you didnt respond to dynadot emails about the expiration warnings. Did you have a reason why you did not receive expiration emails? Not renewing ahead of time or for several years baffles me, especially a valuable asset. If the asset was that important to you, why didn’t you prevent this from occuring? Having personal responsibility is a key element in life and business especially.

I understand that there are rules, fully agree so my point is that when the grace period ends... well POOF, to Auction. End of story.

Auctioning “property”, without free and clear title is wrong-headed, this domain “auction” fake system without auction licensing, no auctioneers consulting or complying with standard operational procedures is simply a joke. TOS disclaimers even state that they are not auctions or auctioneers. This is unlike anything else I know of in all my auction years. They should be like normal english style absolute non-reserve auctions, if that was the case, none of this nonsense would occur.

I posted a clawback story from Dynadot here when it happened to me this year, but received only help from fellow namepro members.

 

[wwwweb]

New Godaddy Rules:

Starting Dec 4, the following changes will happen to expired domain names:
• After Day 5 of expiration, DNS, email, hosting, redirecting and any other DNS-dependent services will be interrupted and stop working.
• After Day 30 of expiration, domain names are no longer able to be renewed or transferred away.

 

[offthehandle]

Thanks for writing this @equity78
Reading the comments is interesting.

https://www.thedomains.com/2017/11/20/domain-king-getting-upset/

 

[offthehandle]

New Godaddy Rules:

Starting Dec 4, the following changes will happen to expired domain names:
• After Day 5 of expiration, DNS, email, hosting, redirecting and any other DNS-dependent services will be interrupted and stop working.
• After Day 30 of expiration, domain names are no longer able to be renewed or transferred away.

Thanks for posting that update. Is that what I mentioned above? Day 31 is the beginning of pending delete cycle and the name is now free and clear of the “black cloud of underfunded domainers renewal game” is now gone?

Funny this post just now of someone:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/go...fter-30-days-expiration.1051137/#post-6445236

 

[wwwweb]

Thanks for posting that update. Is that what I mentioned above? Day 31 is the beginning of pending delete cycle and the name is now free and clear of the “black cloud of underfunded domainers renewal game” is now gone?

Funny this post just now of someone:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/go...fter-30-days-expiration.1051137/#post-6445236

Yes, that news is going viral, Rick Schwartz tipped the scales, and godaddy did the math, and it makes better business sense for them I guess.

 

[offthehandle]

Yes, that news is going viral, Rick Schwartz tipped the scales, and godaddy did the math, and it makes better business sense for them I guess.

Excellent news. A fair system, their fast reaction. No more clawbacks. Real auctions. I don’t see the downside, except for weeding out the underfunded portfolio holders moving to other platforms and registries. Hopefully the entire industry of expired names follow suit.

Next they should take a leadership role to ID the sellers and bidders to clean up what they can control that goes on behind the scenes.