discuss Suggestion for stopping fake buyers

[topdom]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

This needs to be stopped !!!
It is very easy.

1. A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

2. It will be refundable if the user closes his account, or if there is no active negotiation or transaction.

3. If a deal is made, but cancelled, and the buyer is the guilty party, then that $10 should be taken
form user's account and should be paid to the seller.

This would be a legitimate earning for the seller, because
he is wasting his time, and may be missing real offers, because of such fake transactions.
And "buyer"'s account would be closed after second violation.
If the buyer wants to cheat again, he will know that he will have to pay another $10. More than one cheating, should mean permanent ban, if detected.

I believe/suspect, marketplaces are not willing to do this, because sometimes they act as broker,
instead of a marketplace. This explains tons of lowballs and unpaid sales.

If marketplaces are honest, and they are just getting the percentages, and not playing some other dirty games (more dirty than shillibidding), then making such a change in their system should be to their advantage as well. Because the more and better sales we make, the more money they make, because their earnings is just a percentage of ours.

By not making such a change, I suspect, marketplaces are admitting being fraudsters.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Interestingly enough even when buying a home there are circumstances where a buyer can back out and retain their earnest money. Sometimes there are things beyond the buyers control that happen.

For most domains IMO it doesn't make sense to have the concept of earnest money, until you get into xxx,xxx+ deals maybe.

Maybe its me. With my first home sale two different buyers backed out. Reason given was they found a different house in the same area. At that time I lived in an area with a lot of options: many new homes, some established ones. I pocketed a good deal of earnest $ in two months time.

With domains I have been offering what @biggie suggests: lease to own.

 

[frank-germany]

Hi

your scenario starts with a flaw



a year is 12 months, so 1 month = $12

still, even if you are waiting to get paid.... that doesn't stop offers from coming via email, phone, etc
as it has happened to me recently

and if, they did, it's up to you to decide from there, but the possibility is not removed.

additionally, it's not a fake buyer or a fake purchase, if and when, the transaction isn't completed.

so, as @Ryan217 pointed out, it's just the nature of selling

imo….

there is another flaw:

>quote
let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me
>quote end

to me it makes the domain worth $1000 USD

 

[equity78]

Maybe its me. With my first home sale two different buyers backed out. Reason given was they found a different house in the same area. At that time I lived in an area with a lot of options: many new homes, some established ones. I pocketed a good deal of earnest $ in two months time.

With domains I have been offering what @biggie suggests: lease to own.

The earnest money would be nice to introduce into domaining.

 

[Joshh71390]

Hi

your scenario starts with a flaw



a year is 12 months, so 1 month = $12



so, as @Ryan217 pointed out, it's just the nature of selling

imo….

Actually 100/12 = 8.33

 

[7363824]

The earnest money would be nice to introduce into domaining.

No, no, 1000 times no, It is in our interest to make it easier for people to buy from us not harder. Would it solve this problem? Maybe? but there are better ways to address it that don't complicate things unnecessarily. The easiest would be they have 7 days from acceptance of the offer to pay, it doesn't get taken off the market until payment is made so if they back out you are still getting new offers in.

 

[alcy]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

This needs to be stopped !!!
It is very easy.

1. A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

2. It will be refundable if the user closes his account, or if there is no active negotiation or transaction.

3. If a deal is made, but cancelled, and the buyer is the guilty party, then that $10 should be taken
form user's account and should be paid to the seller.

This would be a legitimate earning for the seller, because
he is wasting his time, and may be missing real offers, because of such fake transactions.
And "buyer"'s account would be closed after second violation.
If the buyer wants to cheat again, he will know that he will have to pay another $10. More than one cheating, should mean permanent ban, if detected.

I believe/suspect, marketplaces are not willing to do this, because sometimes they act as broker,
instead of a marketplace. This explains tons of lowballs and unpaid sales.

If marketplaces are honest, and they are just getting the percentages, and not playing some other dirty games (more dirty than shillibidding), then making such a change in their system should be to their advantage as well. Because the more and better sales we make, the more money they make, because their earnings is just a percentage of ours.

By not making such a change, I suspect, marketplaces are admitting being fraudsters.

there are already markets that do this. domainagents for instance. not much action for me there despite having my names there... i think i had 1-2 sales in 5 years there. but some (rare) people swear by that place... i've no clue how they do it

there u can set in options if buyer should pay $20 to make offer.

there may be couple other markets that do this. but im not sure which ones... and if im not sure which ones then they're not good markets worth most people time anyway.

so speaking of the big 3... sedo gd afternic.. u make good point... I too often have unpaid buyers... since most my sales are on gd.. there nonpayers are less common but happen to.. the rule there is i wait 15 days for pay.. if no pay then I can cancel and relist.. however i usually wait full 30 days for pay.... so you are right! !! that takes 1 whole month of my registration.

not sure how it works on aftrernic...

on sedo.. i think u can request cnacel also after 2-3 weeks.

well.. i guess the good news is... we do have those 3 markets plus SALE LANDRS.. which means if say I sell on gd... other buyrs still can see my forsale page on lander.. plus the othr 2 markets.. of course as u know.. this can only work for makeoffers... which to me hapens to be 99% Of my names.. so its all good.. else for bins everywhere, it won;t work.

i guess what u can do while waiting payment, is temporarity set that name on makeoffer everywhere else.. better than nothing for sure..

 

[topdom]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

 

[7363824]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

Easier said than done. At least in a way thats not going to also discourage real sales too. Imo.

 

[topdom]

A common scenario (I suspect). I list a domain at AN, Sedo, Dan, .. And an enduser wants to buy my domain. He goes directly to GD, and searches for my domain. GD says taken , but we can get it for you. (Why does GD says so, instead of making that person make an offer at AN : I don't know, but probably to make more profit than just the 20 percent ). Since GD is the must trustbale company ! , he pays 60 USD just to start negotiating,.. and that GD broker tries to get the domain at the lowest price possible at Sedo, instead of exchanging emails. Once seller side is secured,.. then there is lots of room to negotiate on the buyer side.
...................
I'm not aganst other domainers trying to buy domains at low prices as long term investment, as long as they pay once a deal is made, instead of saying, hmm, I found a better deal elsewhere.
.....
If endusers are really paying $60 just to negotiate at GD, then any enduser can easily pay a refundable $10 just to place a bid. Actually I don't want that $10 from cheating buyers, but it would be a proof of the pain they deserve. And I wouldn't have to be paranoid. I get several low 3 fig offers, and I counter in low 4 to mid 3 range. What if I accept all to get 1K more cash...80 percent won't pay. Even if offers are good enough, not accepting makes lots of sense. Any buyer who can't pay $10 in advance, when it is refundable, is not a real buyer imo. Instead of payment, it can be an authorisation on the card....Sedo can tell me: this guys wants to bid without deposit, do you accept: then I say or no. I want either $10, or full contact data plus IP of the buyer.

 

[7363824]

We don't know how many people pay that and how many don't who would have just bought it if they didn't have to do that. Though I suspect many don't bother.

At if you are only expecting low xxxx why not just set a BIN and forget it. And if you are going to accept offers set your min offer. That solves the problem right then and there.

 

[alcy]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

well in countless cases we still gotta wait for buyers to pay... sometimes days.. sometimes weeks etc... its just how it is.

 

[King]

They should device ban a user that fails to make payment

 

[topdom]

Problem is not low offers. I would accept some/many low offers. But I want to know if they are real enduser offers, and if we make a deal whether it will be paid. I would accept many offers from domainers as well. Let's say I'm offered 200. If I suspect there is an enduser behind this offer I wouldn't accept it, but if it is a domainer buying just as an investment, or an enduser with low budget I may sell. If for each enduser trying to buy my domain and willing to pay 1K, I only get 200 max because of such midbuyers, this means an unfair game.... So the main problem is: nonpayment. Everything else is secondary. People should be able to play any games within some reasonable rules. Sedo's rules, GD's rules are not reasonable.

 

[7363824]

Problem is not low offers. I would accept some/many low offers. But I want to know if they are real enduser offers, and if we make a deal whether it will be paid. I would accept many offers from domainers as well. Let's say I'm offered 200. If I suspect there is an enduser behind this offer I wouldn't accept it, but if it is a domainer buying just as an investment, or an enduser with low budget I may sell. If for each enduser trying to buy my domain and willing to pay 1K, I only get 200 max because of such midbuyers, this means an unfair game.... So the main problem is: nonpayment. Everything else is secondary. People should be able to play any games within some reasonable rules. Sedo's rules, GD's rules are not reasonable.

There I see a difference between your method and mine. My price is my price no matter who you are.

 

[karmaco]

You either deal with low ballers, fake offers via make offer or you put a BIN when you have determined what you will sell it for. The only sure way to get paid is a BIN rather than accepting an offer.

 

[topdom]

There I see a difference between your method and mine. My price is my price no matter who you are.

For liquid domains the same is true for me, but when there are hundreds or thousands of average quality
handregged domains with potential to sell for 4 figures you have to consider all offers and guess who is making an offer. I would sell 95 percent of my domains for 100, if all are bought at once, so I need to decide which ones to sell for 100 which ones for 10000, and to who, and when, and why, and where, and how.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

You either deal with low ballers, fake offers via make offer or you put a BIN when you have determined what you will sell it for. The only sure way to get paid is a BIN rather than accepting an offer.

For me, I've had more success with make offer than win BIN. It gives me more of a chance to engage the lead, if they're really interested we may haggle back and forth. Does it stop it 100% - no. But much less than BIN in my experience. With BIN all they have to do to take the name off the market for a while is click buy and walk away.

Things are changing though. Some marketplaces have been responsive and follow up with prospective buyers and seems to be able to tell when there's going to be a problem and will relist your name. If its my own lander then I keep the domain available for other potential offers until money is in my account - then I remove from everywhere else. Full control is the best way to deal with this IMO.