discuss Suggestion for stopping fake buyers

[topdom]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

This needs to be stopped !!!
It is very easy.

1. A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

2. It will be refundable if the user closes his account, or if there is no active negotiation or transaction.

3. If a deal is made, but cancelled, and the buyer is the guilty party, then that $10 should be taken
form user's account and should be paid to the seller.

This would be a legitimate earning for the seller, because
he is wasting his time, and may be missing real offers, because of such fake transactions.
And "buyer"'s account would be closed after second violation.
If the buyer wants to cheat again, he will know that he will have to pay another $10. More than one cheating, should mean permanent ban, if detected.

I believe/suspect, marketplaces are not willing to do this, because sometimes they act as broker,
instead of a marketplace. This explains tons of lowballs and unpaid sales.

If marketplaces are honest, and they are just getting the percentages, and not playing some other dirty games (more dirty than shillibidding), then making such a change in their system should be to their advantage as well. Because the more and better sales we make, the more money they make, because their earnings is just a percentage of ours.

By not making such a change, I suspect, marketplaces are admitting being fraudsters.

 

[7363824]

Car salesmen have to deal with people coming on their lot kicking the tires taking a test drive of that fancy new sports car that have no intentions of or means to buy.

Its just the nature of selling things.

 

[Furquan]

You are selling something. So yes you get fake buyer, you get low baller and yes you get a real buyer.

 

[biggie]

Hi

my reason for disputing these occurrences expressed here
is because I've used sedo for over a decade
during that time, had only 1 offer that I accepted, which wasn't completed because "Sedo" canceled the transaction.... due to buyers inability to secure payment.

so when i read fake this and fake that, and other accusations/insinuations which are thrown out without concrete evidence and or a string of what if scenarios.... then I have to raise the questions

is it just some people have, or get, all the bad breaks more often than others
or do they put themselves in these positions recklessly,
then fault the platforms built to serve your interests and intents?

not saying it is, either way, for anybody in particular, but if or when it becomes a pattern...

imo….

 

[biggie]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

Hi

your scenario starts with a flaw

So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year)

a year is 12 months, so 1 month = $12

still, even if you are waiting to get paid.... that doesn't stop offers from coming via email, phone, etc
as it has happened to me recently

and if, they did, it's up to you to decide from there, but the possibility is not removed.

additionally, it's not a fake buyer or a fake purchase, if and when, the transaction isn't completed.

so, as @Ryan217 pointed out, it's just the nature of selling

imo….

 

[karmaco]

You either deal with low ballers, fake offers via make offer or you put a BIN when you have determined what you will sell it for. The only sure way to get paid is a BIN rather than accepting an offer.

 

[branding]

A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

There are already venues requiring a payment to be able to request a quote.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Venues like Domain Agents require the potential buyer to pay $20. Try to communicate with the marketplace you have the name listed if you suspect the buyer is fake and will not proceed with the sale.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Interestingly enough even when buying a home there are circumstances where a buyer can back out and retain their earnest money. Sometimes there are things beyond the buyers control that happen.

For most domains IMO it doesn't make sense to have the concept of earnest money, until you get into xxx,xxx+ deals maybe.

Maybe its me. With my first home sale two different buyers backed out. Reason given was they found a different house in the same area. At that time I lived in an area with a lot of options: many new homes, some established ones. I pocketed a good deal of earnest $ in two months time.

With domains I have been offering what @biggie suggests: lease to own.

 

[frank-germany]

Hi

your scenario starts with a flaw



a year is 12 months, so 1 month = $12

still, even if you are waiting to get paid.... that doesn't stop offers from coming via email, phone, etc
as it has happened to me recently

and if, they did, it's up to you to decide from there, but the possibility is not removed.

additionally, it's not a fake buyer or a fake purchase, if and when, the transaction isn't completed.

so, as @Ryan217 pointed out, it's just the nature of selling

imo….

there is another flaw:

>quote
let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me
>quote end

to me it makes the domain worth $1000 USD

 

[equity78]

Maybe its me. With my first home sale two different buyers backed out. Reason given was they found a different house in the same area. At that time I lived in an area with a lot of options: many new homes, some established ones. I pocketed a good deal of earnest $ in two months time.

With domains I have been offering what @biggie suggests: lease to own.

The earnest money would be nice to introduce into domaining.

 

[7363824]

Problem is not low offers. I would accept some/many low offers. But I want to know if they are real enduser offers, and if we make a deal whether it will be paid. I would accept many offers from domainers as well. Let's say I'm offered 200. If I suspect there is an enduser behind this offer I wouldn't accept it, but if it is a domainer buying just as an investment, or an enduser with low budget I may sell. If for each enduser trying to buy my domain and willing to pay 1K, I only get 200 max because of such midbuyers, this means an unfair game.... So the main problem is: nonpayment. Everything else is secondary. People should be able to play any games within some reasonable rules. Sedo's rules, GD's rules are not reasonable.

There I see a difference between your method and mine. My price is my price no matter who you are.

 

[biggie]

If half of sales are fake, then there is a serious problem.

don't know about your deals, but...

all of my sales, were paid for in US currency
and none of those dollars were fake.
therefore, all of those sales were real.

imo...

 

[Name Trader]

I would try an alternative seller, like Afternic. I don't know for certain, but I don't recall this kind of thing happening to me there. Sorry I have no recent experience with Sedo. I stopped using them years ago. In DAN, they ban sellers who don't sell to a buyer. I would presume they would do the same with buyers. Or at least it gets resolved sooner. Like in 1-2 weeks. There are probably others. I'm not recommending anyone here. I'm just saying there are lots of options. You just need to go out and do your research.

 

[topdom]

By fake sale I mean, legally binding deal made, but not paid for a month even after a fake legal action by Sedo (debt collection, do they really do it, of course not, they pretend).

 

[topdom]

... What about multiple bids? There are some months when I'll make offers on 50 or more listings. (Yes, I can pay for them all if they're all accepted.) Do I need to put down a deposit for each one?

Good, ok then I make a small change. You will have to keep $10 at Sedo when you have an active bid, $20 for bids on two domains , and less or none for the rest. After two cheatings your account would be closed, and remaining deals would be cancelled.

Also if you are making 50 bids then you are a domainer, or you represent a registrar or another marketplace
then discouraging such bids would make sense. For example if whenever Godaddy receives an inquiry on one of our domains , they bid at Sedo instead of informing us, then blocking such a thing would be a very good thing.

Brokers selling domains which they don't own need to be stopped.

 

[biggie]

I am not sure how a seller could "put themselves in these positions recklessly". Please explain.

well, for one, by using a service, without reading the TOS
then later when you post an issue, someone else points to the terms of service

and you're like, "oh... didn't know that"

just saying...


imo...


-

 

[biggie]

I am not sure how a seller could "put themselves in these positions recklessly". Please explain.

well, for one, by using a service, without reading the TOS
then later when you post an issue, someone else points to the terms of service

and you're like, "oh... didn't know that"

just saying...


imo...


-

What the OP is saying is that they wish for the TOS to change to better protect the seller. I fail to understand how this is an issue almost at the point of defending why it should remain as-is. Its perplexing, something as simple as wanting more protection for us domain sellers gets so much push-back.

Hi
if, you read my first post, I stated opinion why OP's premise or scenario had flaws.

my push-back was related to those flaws, and I posted my experience with same platform, in contrast.

if, I use same venue, then same possibilities exist for me, as well as others.

so, it's not about "defending a "remain as is" status quo.
but one has to know "all the what if's" that could happen, if and when you accept an offer
like the buyer may not pay or the funds they thought they had or were going to get, didn't materialize
or their bank, can't or won't send or approve or sedo's bank won't approve.

there are states in USA that escrow.com won't approve from, so if buyer live there and don't know TOS prior to, enters agreement, then tah-dah, no deal..... and seller may be on hook for fee.

still, it's how you react to or anticipate prior to those possibilities, if and when they become realities, that matter now or in the future.

like // i get a nice offer and accept right away,
but in my mind i'm saying this mo-fo ain't gonna follow thru, simply because i accepted first offer.
then, when or if they don't follow thru on the deal, it's no biggie, because i anticipated it.

not gonna call it out as a fake buyer, because i really don't know their circumstances.
was it preconceived deceit or just some unfortunate that happened for the potential buyer?

just saying....


imo...

 

[biggie]

For most domains IMO it doesn't make sense to have the concept of earnest money, until you get into xxx,xxx+ deals maybe.

Hi

if you can sell, using lease to own option,
then their first payment is the deposit, and...you still own the property until all installments are paid.

so, cents it does make

imo….

 

[alcy]

I buy a domain, and let's say it has 10 percent chance of being sold for 1K in the first year. So it is worth $100 to me. A fake buyer shows up and I "sell" this domain at Sedo or AN for 1K, but it remains unpaid, and let's say 1 month of waiting time is wasted and in that period I may have missed some real offers. So it is like, anyone can steal my $10 (corresponding to 1 month of $100/year), and marketplaces help such fake buyers with their fake purchases.

This needs to be stopped !!!
It is very easy.

1. A user should pay $10 to the marketplace just before placing a bid.

2. It will be refundable if the user closes his account, or if there is no active negotiation or transaction.

3. If a deal is made, but cancelled, and the buyer is the guilty party, then that $10 should be taken
form user's account and should be paid to the seller.

This would be a legitimate earning for the seller, because
he is wasting his time, and may be missing real offers, because of such fake transactions.
And "buyer"'s account would be closed after second violation.
If the buyer wants to cheat again, he will know that he will have to pay another $10. More than one cheating, should mean permanent ban, if detected.

I believe/suspect, marketplaces are not willing to do this, because sometimes they act as broker,
instead of a marketplace. This explains tons of lowballs and unpaid sales.

If marketplaces are honest, and they are just getting the percentages, and not playing some other dirty games (more dirty than shillibidding), then making such a change in their system should be to their advantage as well. Because the more and better sales we make, the more money they make, because their earnings is just a percentage of ours.

By not making such a change, I suspect, marketplaces are admitting being fraudsters.

there are already markets that do this. domainagents for instance. not much action for me there despite having my names there... i think i had 1-2 sales in 5 years there. but some (rare) people swear by that place... i've no clue how they do it

there u can set in options if buyer should pay $20 to make offer.

there may be couple other markets that do this. but im not sure which ones... and if im not sure which ones then they're not good markets worth most people time anyway.

so speaking of the big 3... sedo gd afternic.. u make good point... I too often have unpaid buyers... since most my sales are on gd.. there nonpayers are less common but happen to.. the rule there is i wait 15 days for pay.. if no pay then I can cancel and relist.. however i usually wait full 30 days for pay.... so you are right! !! that takes 1 whole month of my registration.

not sure how it works on aftrernic...

on sedo.. i think u can request cnacel also after 2-3 weeks.

well.. i guess the good news is... we do have those 3 markets plus SALE LANDRS.. which means if say I sell on gd... other buyrs still can see my forsale page on lander.. plus the othr 2 markets.. of course as u know.. this can only work for makeoffers... which to me hapens to be 99% Of my names.. so its all good.. else for bins everywhere, it won;t work.

i guess what u can do while waiting payment, is temporarity set that name on makeoffer everywhere else.. better than nothing for sure..

 

[alcy]

The point is: there must be a penalty for cheating. wasting time while waiting, is secondary.
Cheaters should be punished and discouraged. Cheaters are mostly midbuyers who try to sell domains they don't own, and because of this they lowball+not pay most of the time, and at the same time they prevent sales, because endusers who hired them trust these fraudsters. Honest domainers lose in 4 stages.

-only low offers, low sale prices
-nonpayment
-big/real sales are lost too, because actual endusers think seller was asking too much, while in reality broker was asking too much, or endusers think the seller is not selling, because brokers' lowballs were not accepted.
-and waste of time

Eliminate brokers who try to get lion's share from someone else's domain, and then everything will be ok.

well in countless cases we still gotta wait for buyers to pay... sometimes days.. sometimes weeks etc... its just how it is.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

You either deal with low ballers, fake offers via make offer or you put a BIN when you have determined what you will sell it for. The only sure way to get paid is a BIN rather than accepting an offer.

For me, I've had more success with make offer than win BIN. It gives me more of a chance to engage the lead, if they're really interested we may haggle back and forth. Does it stop it 100% - no. But much less than BIN in my experience. With BIN all they have to do to take the name off the market for a while is click buy and walk away.

Things are changing though. Some marketplaces have been responsive and follow up with prospective buyers and seems to be able to tell when there's going to be a problem and will relist your name. If its my own lander then I keep the domain available for other potential offers until money is in my account - then I remove from everywhere else. Full control is the best way to deal with this IMO.

 

[topdom]

If half of sales are fake, then there is a serious problem.

 

[TheBuyerz]

Sincerly, it happened to me for one of my domain names.

I got around 4 offers but they were all fake and no continuation from the buyers' side.

But there is no problem with it, since there were interests on the domain, this will bring also real buyers.

 

[draco]

There are some people that won't pay just to place a bid, even if they'll get their money back eventually. So that will hurt the marketplaces. What about multiple bids? There are some months when I'll make offers on 50 or more listings. (Yes, I can pay for them all if they're all accepted.) Do I need to put down a deposit for each one?

Fair is fair. Are you going to put down a deposit for every domain you list to go to the buyer if you're the one that doesn't complete the sale?