STATE OF THE NEW G'S

[Internet.Domains]

The current STATE OF THE NEW G'S is good!...or is it?

After nearly 3 years into the introduction of New G's there remains:
* Very low 'End User' usage
* Very little aftermarket activity
* Declining inquiries
* Inconsistent registry changes affecting drops, renewals and pricing
* Little to none public awareness

In conclusion, the current STATE OF THE NEW G'S is not good.

(Disclaimer: I am a proponent and investor of New G's, but I tend to have a REALIST view of things)

 

[deez007]

 

[168]

* Three years is plenty of time to make some sort of impact, it's plenty of time to gain some sort of MOMENTUM.
* The Namescon auction will be highly publicized and will not include any good news for the aftermarket or show any kind of demand.
* The Namescon auction is sponsored by registries that have a vested interest in seeing good results, which won't happen. You can't blame the poor results on a biased auction.
* If registration is up 240%, there should be demand in the aftermarket. The number '240%' includes $.01 registrations, or rather "free give aways".
* The majority of the aftermarket activity is from the highly speculative Chinese market.

The momentum is in "use" and "investment" There isn't an aftermarket yet. Aftermarkets don't just appear. They are a product of use and investment.
Just 3 years ago, .com had 99% of the start up market. Today it's 68%. This demonstrates a willingness of "Users" to adopt something other than .com This is "real people"
The TechCrunch Disrupt Hackathon; one of the most prestigious hackathons in the country was held at Pier 48,San Francisco over the weekend of 10-11 September 2016. The event saw over 60% of the teams using a new domain extension to host their hackathon projects on including overall winners -
Hackers were excited to use the new domain extensions and claimed availability of names, high recall value, meaningful and descriptive extensions to be some of the primary reasons to use the names, not a substitute till they can get .com
[they] "are extremely happy with the choice of the domain name. It showcases exactly what the product does"
.Com has regular "teasers" for 99 cents. registrations for com/net are in decline.
It took .com nearly 15 years to reach the same amount of registrations and a steady aftermarket.
NamesCon auction is and has always favored .com geared toward .com investors not "end users" of any kind. which is OK but not indicative the rest of the world.
I have personally witnessed .com investors say they are only buying .coms then bid on New "G"s ( called them on it too)
I have yet to see the NamesCon auction promote New "G"s beyond listing them. Registries/registrars have also been slow to promote. This may change with it's new owners.
.Club is a stand out with razor sharp promotion and pro active results (getting into a closed China market) and doing quite well.
Porkbun is also doing well focusing on "users" So is Radix- Have you met the team? They are awesome!
Last year's auction results for New "G"s did quite well considering "Nobody has ever heard of them" and the majority of investors were .com heavy. You should attend to see for yourself rather than speculate.
Again, please post facts vs opinion based on what? Facts. Facts. Facts. So we can come to our own informed opinions.
Happy Hunting

 

[mad409]

Of course they are not.

"One should listen to "quiet" forum posts reporting ngtld sales here and there instead of following "loud" Mike Mann's posts".

Oh I've read where he can sell domains like, Isoldmydogbecausehehatesme.com for 15K but not sure who verify s them..

What I posted has been verified...

Couple others confirmed.

Simple.tax - $7,500.00
Prop.bet - $6,500.00

 

[Wannabean]

Not sure about that, but let's see about this year's auction as it will represent the current "STATE OF THE NEW G'S"[/QUAll the new g namescon auction is going to tell us is the current state of the new g reseller market.

best.creditcard was a recent reported sale at $10,900.00!

Even at a $250.00 or so renewal it still brought a nice price..

New G's are not dead...

But you have to consider probability of a sale before you deduce that $10,900 is a good sale. I'm going to argue that the person who bought this for $250 a year and sold for $10,900, actually had a negative expectation overall and therefore made a bad investment. There are some factors that could change this however, such as their ability as a salesperson or developer. Therefore, this isn't an attack on the previous registrant, more an observation that the average domainer should expect to lose in this scenario.

When the renewal is $250 and the chances of a domain selling in any given year are around 2%, you can expect to have sunk $12,500 (renewals) in to this name before reasonably expecting to sell it to an end user. The reason New g's suck isn't that end users don't want them or that they're destined for absolute failure (because nobody knows yet). They suck (from a domainers point of view) because they're not investor friendly. The renewals are so high, they leave a negative expectation for domainers. The only way to counter this is if prices in turn went up significantly. Sadly, the new g market has been flooded with inventory, so it's more likely prices are going down or will stay the same. There's certainly no reason to think they'll go up to the degree needed to make new g's a good hold.

New g's aren't dead by any means but the ones with big renewals aren't good investments.

 

[slader23]

Travel. Agency sold for $3000 at the Namescon auction. It sold for $9999 several months ago. That is a loss of more than $7000 dollars after commission. This was the best New G in the auction in my opinion and is an indicator of tough times ahead for the New G's....

It indicates a poor selling strategy more than indicates what will happen in the future. When pressed with the notion of no reserve by NC auction staff that investor should have held firm and if they didn't get their way they should have removed the name from NC. Take bad gambles like that and you will pay. it's not like that auction had stellar ngtlds to begin with, I'm sure much better names were submitted and the investors who owned them refused to agree with having no reserve.

 

[betthelot]

Its been 3 years and the results are in:-
Spammers 10 points
Registry(s) 10 points
ICANN 10 points
Registrars 8 points
Domainiers 1 point

Its a disaster for most domainers, some will do OK but even they dont share their holding costs, so hard to judge,
Also the often touted one off sale to prove its a vibrant aftermarket doesn't cut it; just because you see one person get hit by a car on the sidewalk doesnt mean you start walking along the highway.
And Frank Shilling followers are starting to look like a cult and are exhibiting the behavior of all cults, denial in the face of reality.

 

[garptrader]

There will be one off sales where registries did not price some keyword as premium that actually made sense and did not have some ridiculous renewal. But if you look at the swelling registration stats and assume at least 80% perhaps 90% of nTLDs are domainer held, obviously we do not have enough aftermarket activity to pay renewals. Again, 1% turn with $10 renewals and 20% marketplace commissions needs a $1250 sale to breakeven. Many nTLDs have higher renewals. But if there are 20-24 million aftermarket nTLDs, where are the four thousand WEEKLY nTLD sales on DNJ?

 

[Alessandro Couteau]

I understand your points. Although, the registries are responsible for many of the points you make. Investors can't merely make the values rise, this would best be achieved by the registries. The registries are failing to educate the public and create an opportunity for development. It is my opinion this is a fail, at this time. It's not too late, but time is running out. The New G's will get much harder to market because they will no longer be considered INNOVATIVE, which is their greatest attribute.

It's most certainly not a failed event in the domain industry, and if you believe it is, no offense; that is somewhat naive ...

You're comparing 20 years to 3 years ... You cannot do that and you most certainly can't predict the future or call it a failure because of a point of "no interest" ... Even .com when starting had a point of no interest, it was a crazy idea to invest in just names. Lol. People used to say "how will you make money doing that ?" Now the ones who were questioned are laughing their ass off at the bank counter when they make withdrawals and deposits in the six and seven figures ...

There's a time for everything,
Like I said focus on development !


Registries of course take advantage and with news of Facebook and Google and Microsoft buying Gtlds,
there is a new age of Internet Realestate being born as we speak ! It's not a point in which you can say it's a failure ...

I am interested in seeing your names, contact me directly !

Best,

Alessandro

 

[168]

Alessandro,
YES!
"I look at the value of names by their build out factors ! Traffic ! Potential revenue"
Land is valued by the same. This is the best way to value domains
YES!
"we need to focus on development not investing ..."
Development is part of the next gen in domains. Just a few will last you a lifetime!
YES! -
"That's when we will see Gtlds grow in value ! names that have powerful meaning !"

What's your focus on New "G"S? 1word ? killer combos? chinese?
Happy Hunting

 

[Internet.Domains]

It's most certainly not a failed event in the domain industry, and if you believe it is, no offense; that is somewhat naive ...

You're comparing 20 years to 3 years ... You cannot do that and you most certainly can't predict the future or call it a failure because of a point of "no interest" ... Even .com when starting had a point of no interest, it was a crazy idea to invest in just names. Lol. People used to say "how will you make money doing that ?" Now the ones who were questioned are laughing their ass off at the bank counter when they make withdrawals and deposits in the six and seven figures ...

There's a time for everything,
Like I said focus on development !


Registries of course take advantage and with news of Facebook and Google and Microsoft buying Gtlds,
there is a new age of Internet Realestate being born as we speak ! It's not a point in which you can say it's a failure ...

I am interested in seeing your names, contact me directly !

Best,

Alessandro

There is no reason to compare .com and it's adoption rate to the New G's. At the time .coms were affordable or unknown, not that many people had the internet or were even aware of the internet. Today billions of people have the internet and you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know about it. For that reason comparing .com and it's adoption rate to the New G's is a non variable.....As for my names, I have no lack of quality. My names are end user grade. Computer. Technology, Home. Services, Internet. Systems and more...

 

[The Durfer]

Show attachment 46775

There is no reason to compare .com and it's adoption rate to the New G's. At the time .coms were affordable or unknown, not that many people had the internet or were even aware of the internet. Today billions of people have the internet and you would be hard pressed to find anyone who doesn't know about it. For that reason comparing .com and it's adoption rate to the New G's is a non variable.....As for my names, I have no lack of quality. My names are end user grade. Computer. Technology, Home. Services, Internet. Systems and more...

you are right internet.domains, .com was the initial tld that everyone had the opportunity to invest in, and when did domainers start, mid 00's, well, geniuses bought in the 90's but are we those people, 90% of us arent, anyway, these gtlds are just starting out, they need a running start, like 3-10 years to make sense like the .com, then you can put them down or go wow, its as good as .com. Now that more people are on the internet it might not take as long as it did with .coms but the same process has to happen.

 

[168]

66% (+12%) of new domains are Operating at LOSS.

99% of start ups operate at a loss. Companies listed on the stock market operate at a loss. America is currently operating at a loss.

for the first time in .com history re-sale losses are adding up. Check Namebio

So what's your point ? Do you work for Verisign?

Happy Hunting

 

[mad409]

I also think development is the key, sites like this one is what is helping spread the word.

http://vitality.bio/

As more launch public awareness becomes greater and advertising spreads by word of mouth and through their marketing efforts..

 

[168]

"Haven't seen you on the cannabis or dog thread. "

Sometimes you don't have to support every niche and I was a little disappointed that the owner of Marijuana.com didn't want Kush.com for $420,000 #WeedMaps

I would have passed at that valuation too. After all why buy kush when shrooms went for 94k. (and they last longer)

Comp Stats suggest as a niche product value between 130-200k. It also has meaning for China but wouldn't get close to the value here.
This is definitely one to develop to get full value.
I picked up a few shorts in .dog for the MJ market I look forward to see if they are adopted.
Cheers

 

[deez007]

and business.global sucks while business.com is a stellar domain name.

Lol, in your opinion...

Business.global in my opinion, is a great domain.

Does that mean I am right and you are wrong? NO... it means we have different opinions.... guess what?. Much like us the rest of the human race also has different opinions. So if I see business.global as being a GOOD domain rest assured there would be loads of Human beings who would agree... just as they were would be loads of human beings who would agree with what you are saying.

There are many entrepreneurs who would rather have the $125 000 that they would save by buying the .global domain as liquid capital to invest back into the business than instead of having a "stellar" name. Then there are also those who would rather have a stellar name because they don't need a cash injection into their business.

Bottom line is that these varied opinions is what creates a marketplace.

 

[Silentptnr]

Here's the issue...

We are domain investors debating something that is clear. Investing carries risk. Some less and some more, but clear risk.

Fact is, I watch reported sales every day, and most are .com by far.

It may take years for gTLD's to really catch on. I will say, it seems to be happening relatively quickly. It is almost impossible to predict exactly when or if.

In the final analysis, domain investing/collecting/flipping is about business. Run a good solid business and the extension doesn't matter.

Like any business, most domainers won't make it past 2 years. The ones that do, have obviously found a pattern of buying and selling that works.

Let me add a personal note. I carefully read and learn from those that have been doing this for a long time. People like Deez and Kate are probably just a notch below the top domainers we read about in the domain news. I respect the words of those like Kate that have been around this forum for 10+ years. I have found that their advice and experience are very insightful.

Good luck to everyone that has found their way to domain name investing. May the domain gods smile on you and may you reach all of your goals.

 

[HotKey]

History always repeats itself.

This time history is just on a larger scale....

It's right in front of your face.

You just have to open your eyes to see it.

Eyes are open...
everything is ClearAs.Glass

 

[Kate]

Kate says,
...
"I have often said that the rise of ccTLDs has nullified the case for new extensions"
What facts do you have to back this worn out assumption ?

Because I live in Europe, and I am in a good position to observe the European market(s).
Local extensions are dominant and often preferred to .com (but .com is OK too).

Please understand that I am not a 'commie' with blinders on, I invest in ccTLDs too.

Kate, with all due respect, "And always the same worn-out arguments"
"Majority of people are not familiar with them/don't understand them/don't trust them"
What facts do you have to back this worn out assumption ?

Just talk to real people, for example relatives, clients, coworkers. Show them some magazines where you see advertising for new extensions. Ask simple, neutral questions like:

• What do you think ? Are they cool or not ?
  
• Would you use one for your next business venture ?
  
• What if we used one for our next campaign ?
• etc

What I have observed so far is not downright hostility but indifference.
Some TLDs sure are silly, when I told a colleague that .lol is a real extension - he lolled. What he must be thinking is that those strings are funny but not for serious projects.

I would suggest the rise of ccTLDs +hacks has demonstrated the willingness to adopt anything other than a second rate crappy .com left over or an outrageous "Premium" .com out of reach for 80% of the market.

Domain hacks are not mainstream at all. More like gadgets. There are few well-know sites on domain hacks, and the most prominent ones have migrated to better names.
To clarify, when I talk about ccTLDs, I mean used in their natural markets, not as domains hacks

Anyone that is my age (20-25) and is just entering the domaining world understands the value in .coms but also realizes that for our generation its not whats going to be driving the domain markets further. NGTLD's are what people my age will be using and apart from the issue of name collisions this adoption, although many investors in .com may not want it to happen,

I've read this many times on NP. The young generation is supposedly going to drive the gTLD revolution.
How is that going to happen ? The popular sites that the young use today are all on .com or ccTLDs.
IMO it's wishful thinking, and not going to happen by magic.
If you have kids, ask them what they think.

To sum up in once sentence it could go like this:
"OK, new TLDs are not gaining much ground today, but there's hope so let's keep moving the goalposts and hope it will be alright".
Instead, the question I would be asking is why they aren't getting a warmer reception today and what would it take to change the situation.

If every ngtld had streamlined registration and renewal fees below $10, with no registry held premiums or registry held premiums in the sub 1k range with regular renewals, .com premiums would have devalued in price at an alarming rate because such immense price competition would create a huge correction in the values of premiums all across the board. This isn't the case in the current market but renewal costs and the prices of registry held premiums will continue to go down deep into the early 2020's for ngtlds.

This will be the death of .com IMHO...not now but in the coming future:

I think the argument is flawed to some extent. Because pricing isn't the single issue, TLDs are more than mere technical identifiers, they are brands. End users pay for brand recognition. Just like they will pay for shiny offices on Main Street, even though they could get equally functional offices on Slum Alley for a fraction of the price (you guess it: some potential customers are reluctant to go shopping on Slum Alley).

Nonetheless, many domains have been registered in new extensions for pennies.
I think that it's not business lost to domainers, because end users buying regfee domains had no intention to pay a premium anyway.
People always have options available if they want to avoid domainers. The supply of domain names is virtually infinite. Quality is scarce but it's relative too. Plenty of viable domains can still be found even in .com (and ccTLDs).
End user demand is always overestimated.

 

[dordomai]

a real market can not be kept secret. sure there are NDAs etc. but you can't hide it. Registries are very eager to publish sales. They need to if they want so survive.

if there is something happening it will show in the sales report.

 

[168]

Why would you want to even compare Business.com to Business.global???
I would compare BusinessGlobal.com to Business.global

BusinessGlobal.com - 10x$15=$150 per decade
Business.Global - 10x$60=$600 per decade.

Hope you see my point

Nice try.
It's absurd to ignore acquisition costs.
Business 101
Cheers

 

[mad409]

In the US most people automatically type .com.

Well I'm in the U.S. and you're not therefore I don't see that happening...

 

[slader23]

Well I'm in the U.S. and you're not therefore I don't see that happening...

 

[slader23]

Not sure what your point is. Deez was comparing business.global to business.com and I told him it made zero sense to do so. And you agree that it makes zero sense so what are we talking about?

Deez was comparing the acquisition costs+renewals to show which was the more economical investment to an enduser, not comparing the actual value of each name in comparison to each other, he even went and noted the date of the Business.com acquisition(1997) so as to not confuse people because that name today would fetch an absolute fortune.

Business.com is worth 7-8 figures today, no question about it. Business.Global is priced at a fair market value and priced higher than its .com equivalent because its a better name. Personally I think its worth $15-30k.

 

[deez007]

Deez was comparing the acquisition costs+renewals to show which was the more economical investment to an enduser, not comparing the actual value of each name in comparison to each other, he even went and noted the date of the Business.com acquisition(1997) so as to not confuse people because that name today would fetch an absolute fortune.

Business.com is worth 7-8 figures today, no question about it. Business.Global is priced at a fair market value and priced higher than its .com equivalent because its a better name. Personally I think its worth $15-30k.

Thanks for pointing that out.... I was sitting here thinking aah man, do I really need to explain all of this? ... then luckily I saw ur reply and it explained it perfectly... hahahah

 

[deez007]

It happens in every new G related thread, like a bunch of cats marking their territory rather than a logical debate.

What's interesting to note though is that, nGTLD fans are NOT anti .com We just don't conform to sheep mentality and are able to see the opportunity. However the hardcore .com fans are anti nGTLD they feel the need to attack them whenever they can. Almost like an animal defending their turf... one would have to wonder why defend unless you were feeling attacked.