discuss Something Estibot does right, registrars need the same!

[MapleDots]

I was trying to look at the value of some 3 word .com's and thought I would punch in a popular website into Estibot to see what the potential value would be. I punched in PlentyofFish.com and immediately got a trademark notice.

That got me to thinking about how much money we could save newer members in registration fees if there was a registrar that did similar. So instead of blindly registering amazon or google domains a newbie would immediately see that resale is limited because of a trademark.

Personally I think all registrars should do this and someone needs to get the ball rolling.

I was trying to think who the best person to contact would be..... guess who immediately came to mind?

@Rob Monster / Epik

Rob is definitely the most forward thinking guy when it comes to new products.

I would love his opinion on this.

 

[gilescoley]

I agree and think all registrars should do it, buy they are all in the business of making money so they wont. Ive discussed this before with execs at a couple of registrars and they feel its the responsibility of the domainer to do their research regarding trademarks. I cant help but think thats just a convenient () stance on the matter.

 

[Gube]

Show attachment 130228

I was trying to look at the value of some 3 word .com's and thought I would punch in a popular website into Estibot to see what the potential value would be. I punched in PlentyofFish.com and immediately got a trademark notice.

That got me to thinking about how much money we could save newer members in registration fees if there was a registrar that did similar. So instead of blindly registering amazon or google domains a newbie would immediately see that resale is limited because of a trademark.

Personally I think all registrars should do this and someone needs to get the ball rolling.

I was trying to think who the best person to contact would be..... guess who immediately came to mind?

@Rob Monster / Epik

Rob is definitely the most forward thinking guy when it comes to new products.

I would love his opinion on this.

We already have a tool to check for TM
I will check if we can implement it on the search page

Gube,

 

[Rob Monster]

Show attachment 130228

I was trying to look at the value of some 3 word .com's and thought I would punch in a popular website into Estibot to see what the potential value would be. I punched in PlentyofFish.com and immediately got a trademark notice.

That got me to thinking about how much money we could save newer members in registration fees if there was a registrar that did similar. So instead of blindly registering amazon or google domains a newbie would immediately see that resale is limited because of a trademark.

Personally I think all registrars should do this and someone needs to get the ball rolling.

I was trying to think who the best person to contact would be..... guess who immediately came to mind?

@Rob Monster / Epik

Rob is definitely the most forward thinking guy when it comes to new products.

I would love his opinion on this.

Good point. Epik already has an (expensive) unlimited API deal with Estibot/DomainPlex. Will discuss with the engineers and @Ala Dadan about adding that Trademark hint to the search stream. Should not be hard.

 

[MapleDots]

We already have a tool to check for TM
I will check if we can implement it on the search page

Gube,

The average Joe does not think of checking trademarks when registering a domain.

 

[MapleDots]

Another idea here would be a proper search tool directed at domainers.

IE. A search tool that I can set to show...

- Set to my desired extensions
- Whois one click away that would open in a new tab so I don't lose my search.
- Trademark indicator
- Similar names (in the chosen extensions only)
- Configurable to my settings and returns to that state when I log in.

Right now I use webnames.ca to check for available names, it ticks some of those boxes but to have a dedicated domain search targeted at domainers would probably pay of for the company doing it, because as a group we certainly register a lot of domains.

ie. pro.epik.com for domainers.

 

[Rob Monster]

For anyone following this topic, the DomainPlex API documentation is here:

https://www.domainplex.com/downloads/api.pdf

The related API call is here:

Another idea here would be a proper search tool directed at domainers.

IE. A search tool that I can set to show...

- Set to my desired extensions
- Whois one click away that would open in a new tab so I don't lose my search.
- Trademark indicator
- Similar names (in the chosen extensions only)
- Configurable to my settings and returns to that state when I log in.

Right now I use webnames.ca to check for available names, it ticks some of those boxes but to have a dedicated domain search targeted at domainers would probably pay of for the company doing it, because as a group we certainly register a lot of domains.

ie. pro.epik.com for domainers.

Let me bring in @Gube and @Ala Dadan

We can start by looking at the expiry stream domains.

As some here are aware, full-stack developer @Gube has been helping a number of VIP Epik customers with screened droplists via the skunkworks project he has running here: https://dropelf.com/

In the meantime, we have the domain name and platform called NameInvestor.com which we acquired in a multi-product deal with Troy Rushton.

I want to see if we can give Domainers the ultimate secret weapon for finding and securing the best new inventory from expiry stream and auctions.

We are also looking at some of the legacy functionality of Protrada as tool for sniping domains at auctions. If that could be done properly, we would have a domainer powertool.

And yes, we would like the domains to land at Epik.com. In return, we'll likely end up giving away the hunt and snipe tools for free to folks who have Epik accounts and use them.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It is a good idea.

I think Namecheap already do it to some degree. I once (year or two ago) went to register a word that to me looked very generic, but I later discovered a TM, and while they leave it listed as available when you try to actually register it they give you a message referring you to customer service and the registration do not go through.

Bob

 

[equity78]

It is a good idea.

I think Namecheap already do it to some degree. I once (year or two ago) went to register a word that to me looked very generic, but I later discovered a TM, and while they leave it listed as available when you try to actually register it they give you a message referring you to customer service and the registration do not go through.

Bob

I had a false positive one time with Namecheap Bob, I checked a generic name in a new gtld and Namecheap would not allow the registration, and I went to Name.com got it done and sold the name to an end user 8 months later.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I had a false positive one time with Namecheap Bob, I checked a generic name in a new gtld and Namecheap would not allow the registration, and I went to Name.com got it done and sold the name to an end user 8 months later.

I actually had a similar experience to yours in that I had no problem registering it with another registrar and did so. Mine does not have your happy sales ending though, and I will probably drop it soon. But yes, they seem more strict than other registrars, but was just pointing out that at least one registrar does have what @MapleDots is proposing already in place.

Bob

 

[MSN-Domains]

Show attachment 130228

I was trying to look at the value of some 3 word .com's and thought I would punch in a popular website into Estibot to see what the potential value would be. I punched in PlentyofFish.com and immediately got a trademark notice.

That got me to thinking about how much money we could save newer members in registration fees if there was a registrar that did similar. So instead of blindly registering amazon or google domains a newbie would immediately see that resale is limited because of a trademark.

Personally I think all registrars should do this and someone needs to get the ball rolling.

I was trying to think who the best person to contact would be..... guess who immediately came to mind?

@Rob Monster / Epik

Rob is definitely the most forward thinking guy when it comes to new products.

I would love his opinion on this.

Not a great idea, when this is prevalent on this forum already

I don't know why Rob would want to prevent this? These guy's love torching their money.......Clearly

35 pages of bad faith registrations, You expect FB to loose against a GCD buyer (Garbage Can Domain)
https://www.namepros.com/threads/showcase-libra-domains.1141658/page-35#post-7415037

 

[Rob Monster]

Not a great idea, when this is prevalent on this forum already

I don't know why Rob would want to prevent this? These guy's love torching their money.......Clearly

35 pages of bad faith registrations, You expect FB to loose against a GCD buyer (Garbage Can Domain)
https://www.namepros.com/threads/showcase-libra-domains.1141658/page-35#post-7415037

The idea is to at least give people awareness. I think it is reasonable. We don't really like UDRP's either. There is no revenue in that, I can assure you. Mostly a giant time-suck.

 

[Internet.Domains]

35 pages of bad faith registrations, You expect FB to loose against a GCD buyer (Garbage Can Domain)
https://www.namepros.com/threads/showcase-libra-domains.1141658/page-35#post-7415037

Not all Libra registrations are done in bad faith. Your assumption is unfair and comes with little facts. At this point the Libra Association is encouraging building on their blockchain, calling it open and promoting 3rd party buildouts. You can find many domains built out here:

Community.Libra.org


Theres always more to a story, just as there is always more to a domain registration. For this reason an automated TM warning is no better than an automated appraisal.

 

[oldtimer]

Ive discussed this before with execs at a couple of registrars and they feel its the responsibility of the domainer to do their research regarding trademarks.

One reason that they haven't done this might be because if there is a TM on a certain generic word that is not going to automatically mean that other people can't register that word as a domain for use in a Totally Different field or category. Perhaps getting a heads up for an existing Exclusive TM such as a Coined Word or Phrase might be a good addition to the domain search, but you want to be careful not to unjustly discourage people from registering a domain that might be perfectly okay for them to use in a totally different field or category from the existing TM.

(just my opinion, not meant as legal advice)

 

[Internet.Domains]

you want to be careful not to unjustly discourage people from registering a domain that might be perfectly okay for them to use in a totally different field or category from the existing TM.

Automated warnings will not and can not consider all the variables, such as content, for a possible complex legal matter. Registrars should register domains, while lawyers, or the well informed, should argue the merits and decide if a TM does or doesn't apply.

 

[7363824]

I think if it gives a visual warning on the search page (or a flag on an api search) but does not prevent registration of the said domain, and includes a disclaimer (which I'm sure your lawyers would insist upon) that the trademark screening may not be accurate. It can be helpful.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I just discovered that NameSilo also have it integrated with their system already. I went to register what to me seemed a very generic term, but it turns out there is a TM in Germany related to the term+extension. They gave me the complete summary text for the trademark, and then an option to either cancel the order or certify that I had read this and my projected use did not infringe upon that. It seems to me that NameSilo have the very best way to deal with it. I was impressed.

Bob

 

[Ategy]

I think the problem is that there will be a huge number of false positives.

On top of that, contrary to what many domainers think because of all the shocking headlines, most existing trademarks are still very usable. If the TM is geo specific then you can use it in the rest of the world. Plus TMs are limited to their TM class (category), so while for example Tesla has strong TM rights on anything vehicle related, there's nothing stopping anyone from naming their restaurant Tesla.

That being said .. a non-blocking warning like mentioned NameSilo and NameCheap already have in place most certainly could be great tools depending on how they are implemented.

Not all Libra registrations are done in bad faith. Your assumption is unfair and comes with little facts. At this point the Libra Association is encouraging building on their blockchain, calling it open and promoting 3rd party buildouts. You can find many domains built out here:

I've seen this argument a few times now .. and what people don't realise is that open-source and open build-out/add-on don't have anything to do with TMs. Wordpress is a great example of that .. they are very open to people hacking/adding/modding Wordpress ... however they very strictly police their TM because they (like all companies) don't want anyone to go around pretending to be them. Given the corporate giants involved with Libra, there isn't a chance they will allow people to use the Libra TM without specific written permission (which I doubt will ever be given to third parties)

 

[Bob Hawkes]

That being said .. and non-blocking warning like mentioned NameSilo and NameCheap already have in place most certainly could be great tools depending on how they are implemented.

If someone wants to see how it is implemented at NameSilo start to register things.science. It allows you to enter it in your cart, but before checkout will bring up the TM details. I had seen the name as a as a catchy science outreach name, but the TM scared me away so I left it.

Bob

 

[capybara]

If someone wants to see how it is implemented at NameSilo start to register things.science. It allows you to enter it in your cart, but before checkout will bring up the TM details. I had seen the name as a as a catchy science outreach name, but the TM scared me away so I left it.

Bob

Bob, you should go back and register that domain. Seriously. There are tons of trademarks for "things", which means first of all that for any of them, obviously, the existence of previous trademarks couldn't and wouldn't be a stopper – the word's too generic. And that is merely one trademark in a single class, for a software product, which you and your domain do not mean.

 

[oldtimer]

I just discovered that NameSilo also have it integrated with their system already. I went to register what to me seemed a very generic term, but it turns out there is a TM in Germany related to the term+extension. They gave me the complete summary text for the trademark, and then an option to either cancel the order or certify that I had read this and my projected use did not infringe upon that. It seems to me that NameSilo have the very best way to deal with it. I was impressed.

Bob

This is my understanding of this situation (but it might be best to consult with an attorney):

The strength of the TM is also important in this situation

The made-up and coined words and phrases have the strongest TM as long as the TM is active.

When the TM holder is the only one that is using a word within a certain field or category that also makes the TM very strong while the TM is active.

But if the word or combination of words are being used by many different people within the same field or category that will make the TM somewhat weak.

It's also important to note that some TMs are given very easily and in mass by countries that want to give an advantage to their own people over others without having that much merit which makes them somewhat unenforceable.

Although it might be good for registrars to give a heads up about TMs in order to show that they take TMs seriously and are not laxed about them, but at the same time I don't believe that they should go out of their way to prevent people from registering their desired domain as every situation is different and must be evaluated on a case by case basis. IMO

(this is just my personal opinion, not meant as legal advice, keep in mind that I might be wrong in my understandings and assumptions, it might be best to consult with an attorney for your specific situation.)

 

[Ategy]

The strength of the TM is also important in this situation

100% CORRECT !!!

Trademarks are not black/white absolutes .. there are so many nuances involved that it would be an extremely complex ordeal to develop a system that gives you an absolute yes/no in terms of if it's safe to register or not.

There are cases where a mark is so specific that you would still get in trouble even if you argued you'd be using it outside of the particular trademark class.

 

[Internet.Domains]

Libra, there isn't a chance they will allow people to use the Libra TM without specific written permission (which I doubt will ever be given to third parties)

No offense, but your 'doubt' doesn't mean that facts don't apply. If you visit the link I gave you will see many third party developers building on Libra domains in the Libra Associations own website. In addition, currency has already been deemed as fair use in a past UDRP decision.

Its reasons like this that TM warnings are more show than go and should not be part of a domain registration process.

 

[Ategy]

Definitely my "doubt" should be taken as a personal doubt. It most certainly is possible they do not enforce the TM (even if I doubt it).

Where Libra falls in terms of TM category and if it will or not be legally considered "currency" in the eyes of TM law are all gambles going forward. It's not traditional crypto and not traditional currency, the value will be based on fiat currency reserves, so it's really uncharted territory.

Also keep in mind that they can't enforce a TM until they are actually using the mark .. they pre-registered it, which gives them 2-3 years before they need to use it (or lose it), but just because they aren't enforcing it now, does not mean they won't enforce it later.

For the record I do own a great Libra name (Libra Expert in king) .. so I hope my doubts are wrong .. lol

 

[Internet.Domains]

Definitely my "doubt" should be taken as a personal doubt. It most certainly is possible they do not enforce the TM (even if I doubt it).

Where Libra falls in terms of TM category and if it will or not be legally considered "currency" in the eyes of TM law are all gambles going forward. It's not traditional crypto and not traditional currency, the value will be based on fiat currency reserves, so it's really uncharted territory.

Also keep in mind that they can't enforce a TM until they are actually using the mark .. they pre-registered it, which gives them 2-3 years before they need to use it (or lose it), but just because they aren't enforcing it now, does not mean they won't enforce it later.

For the record I do own a great Libra name (Libra Expert in king) .. so I hope my doubts are wrong .. lol

Libra was originally brought into this conversation by someone calling them

bad faith registrations

I hope we can agree it's way too early to be calling them that. Yes, they are speculative with the future uncertain, but at this point they are definitely not "bad faith registrations."

To stay on topic with the subject of the thread, TM's are too complex for a warning system to be effective and should not be part of domain registrations due to false and misleading information being taken literally by the uninformed.