.mobi Skyfire Browser.. "delivers the PC Web experience on your phone"

[davieboy]

Worrying ?

Skyfire Press Release

“For too long consumers have been promised the ‘real Web’ on their phone, only to be disappointed by slow rendering, error messages, no Flash support, watered down WAP pages or second-rate mobile versions of their favorite site,” said Skyfire CEO Nitin Bhandari. “Skyfire has remedied those ills at a speed not seen before on the mobile platform. By extending the PC Web experience to smartphones, we fully expect Skyfire to fundamentally change the way people use their phones.”

I've got to say that from my own personal viewpoint that this sort of thing is the very thing that worries me most about my .mobi's. The constraints they have v's the ever increasing technologies being employed in developing mobile browsers to emulate and encompass the .coms and regular sites. ( Google's 'Android' being another).

Then there's the heavyweight websites like Youtube also developing ways and means to deliver their content 'as it is' just like on the pc.

Youtube Upgraded Mobile Version

Bearing in mind that 'smartphones' nowadays are still relatively small screened, N95's, N73's etc etc and that smartphones are now coming now with built-in wifi. Surfing and streaming at home and free wifi hotspots are up and running even in McDonalds nowadays ( in the UK at least). Dataplans are also gearing more and more to 'mobile broadband' and capped 'per month' charges.
How does the 'skinned to the bone' .mobi's compete with these ? :td: Forget the iphone debate it's the browsers and their developments .mobi investors have to worry about IMHO.

I'm actually not sure how to develop my .mobi's at the moment. They seem so 'bland' in comparison to the above.

 

[PVFARKAS]

pm me with pricing

 

[davieboy]

LOL. thank you.

Think I'll hang on for a bit though. Just not absolutely sure how one competes and more to the point, actually develops when you've got Flash, Java, Youtube and the 'full web experience' on your 2 inches. Rendered of course, or, text only if you prefer to view the .com that way.

Thoughts on that mabye would be welcomed.

Youtube Java Beta

 

[namewaiter]

browsers render, rendering is not the problem ... sites need to be made specifically for the mobile web ... sure you can turn www.nytimes.com into a text only page to display on a phone, but holy hell why would you want that? what you really want is the nytimes to designate a site specifically designed to be 'browsed' on your mobile.

 

[davieboy]

Not quite sure what you mean to be honest ?

If I want to read the stories without downloading the images then yes, text only IS just fine, what else is there in a newspaper ? Images aren't needed unless the story really is of interest. If I want to view somewhere like ebay where images are obviously desirable browsers will change settings to 'allow images' for viewing and downloading.

Obviously you've never used a mobile browser before or you'd know what I'm getting at here. I've been browsing the web on my phone since I bought my N-Gage a few years back ( not using it now obviously ).

But the crux of the matter is that new browsers being developed are getting very clever indeed. The options available are also getting very clever with abilities to switch on/off images, 'fit to screen', secure payments via Paypal, and now, java, flash, youtube, facebook and others are just about available. Wifi ( no data charges ) and cheaper data packages are also on the rise both at home and out and about.

NYTimes.com looks just fine on my Opera Mini browser. In fact BBC ( another very 'busy' home page) is included as a default option along with Wikipedia and Yahoo. I've never had any bother browsing them. I also own a rather large forum (over 300,000 posts) which again, I have no difficulty checking in on via my phone, a Nokia N80, several times a day. Text only if I want speed, images included if I want to view something specific.

What I'm trying to say is that NYtimes unfortunately doesn't actually 'need' to designate anything specific.The new browsers and sites like Youtube are are doing it FOR you. That's the point.

Why upload and optimise 'video content' for mobiles when users can just download a Youtube Java application for their phone.

Anyway, it has me slighty concerned about sites I am trying to think of 'mobile specific' content for. :td: Wondering just what that will mean in a few months time ?

 

[binaryman]

Probably means that you will be stuck with useless .mobi domains that have no purpose in the world at all in a few months time. PM me your list of domains and I'll have a look and see if there are any I could maybe use. If you have some really good ones I can maybe pay up to registration fee for them. At least that way you can recoup some of your losses and maybe have enough money to buy that fantastic Skyfire mobile browser.

Seriously though...it's been said hundreds of times already that no matter what browser technology they come out with the small screen cellphones have is the limiting factor. .Mobi offers the solution here as it's relevant information for the traveller on the go who does not have time to sit and scroll and zoom to find the info he wants from large PC web pages. .Mobi is not in competition with those pages. .Mobi offers quick uncluttered direct relevant info. Who really needs to fiddle and scroll and zoom to find the time your train leaves or a nice Indian restaurant in Soho?
Answer your insecurities?

 

[Mobi Cheap]

Or perhaps it means this:

Either you (the website owner) decide what your mobile visitors will see, or it will be decided for you by some lines of code.

If one doesn't know enough about .mobi (as is still the case with the vast majority of webmasters) it can be a genuinely difficult question.

 

[davieboy]

. If you have some really good ones I can maybe pay up to registration fee for them. At least that way you can recoup some of your losses and maybe have enough money to buy that fantastic Skyfire mobile browser.

Do I detect a note of sarcasm ? Come now, with names like jav.mobi and doo.mobi I think we could both stretch a little further than reg fee should the need arise.

.Mobi offers quick uncluttered direct relevant info. Who really needs to fiddle and scroll and zoom to find the time your train leaves or your a nice indian restaurant in Soho?

I think you may be a little blinkered in your views. Do you or anyone else who constantly take the 'small screen' limitiatons view actually use any of these browsers on a regular basis ? Or are you just presuming ? If you haven't then I suggest you download one to your phone and spend a week playing around with it visiting a few of your favourite sites in .com form.

You'll see that there is little scrolling and zooming in needs doing at all. Don't assume because you've seen the iPhone do the whole touchy feely zoom in, landscape thing that that's the only thing they do. Far from it. Text only options provide uncluttered and decidely unfiddly small pages of text with relevant links. Most pages are no larger than 10kb and load very quickly. And that's the .coms. Bookmarks, secure payments and downloadable content is all there.

While I take on what you are saying about .mobi not being in competition with the full fat rendered .com pages. However browsers that can go between displaying these pages as either full fat, image laden, flash/java enabled zoom-in and scroll options.. or instantly go to text-only, no frills, low data, speedy delivery of the same page are around now. And they're only getting better at it. Where do our .mobi's fit in with these around and the options they provide ?

If you aren't even a little worried about these, by the way, mainly free browsers ( Opera mini has been free for years ) and the options they provide ? Then you may be just a little unrealisitic as to how people actually use their phones to surf nowadays. :td: Joe Public can today view the mainstream web via mobile friendly browsers (not sites) as either slim, speedy and basic or full and flashy, travelling or at home, free via wifi or on a low cost dataplan. Most of them just don't know it yet, but it's exploding fast as we all know.

They are providing options to the casual surfer on one platform/one click. I love my .mobi's but, I am worried that the constraints placed on them are now starting to lag behind what the mobile web, and mobile specific browsers are capable of providing on the small screen. In a word, 'user-choice' as to what they want to see and when.

Insecurities, yes. :td: Answered. no. I don't think you surf the internet using your phone and the browsers available now regularly enough to answer them, objectively. Do you ?

 

[cityforums.com]

interesting ... .mobis may become completely useless.
:sold:
Installing the application
1. Using your phone browser go to:
m.youtube.com/app
2. Follow the instructions to download YouTube
3. Exit your phone browser
4. Find the YouTube icon on your phone and start watching videos

 

[nombre]

Joe Public can today view the mainstream web via mobile friendly browsers (not sites) as either slim, speedy and basic or full and flashy, travelling or at home, free via wifi or on a low cost dataplan. Most of them just don't know it yet, but it's exploding fast as we all know.

the numbers simply don't support your argument

if you add all of the iphones that have been sold (let alone used) to all of the smart phones, pda's and blackberries they don't amount to even 10% of all phones

the vast, vast majority of people will be using very small screen phones, with relatively expensive data plans that deliver data slowly

"joe public" is not a geek and doesn't give a s$#t about fancy data access, they want an inexpensive phone that fits in their pocket

all these fancy browsers appeal to a very small percentage of the population

the rest just want a few bits of data quickly to help them get a job done

take a look at the developed mobi's by very large companies, they all do very simple useful things ....

i will point out again what i posted a while back, the businessweek.com home page is about 454,000K, the businessweek.mobi home page is _12K_

do the math and check the usage statistics for people that actually use mobile phones as opposed to what geeks like to talk about

which is not to say that there aren't threats to the viability of mobi, there certainly are ...

 

[davieboy]

if you add all of the iphones that have been sold (let alone used) to all of the smart phones, pda's and blackberries they don't amount to even 10% of all phones

Blimey mate where have you been ? Tell that to Nokia, Motorola and Sony Ericsson. :hi: My N-Gage was a 'smartphone' 4 years ago on the Symbian 60 platform. Surfed, used Real Player, played Gameboy games and used a MMC to store loads of Mp3's.

I don't think you understand me. Any phone that will accept Java will accept a Java Mobile Browser. Right ? Any phone with internet capabilities will therefore be one free download away from accessing the web via them. 99% of phones now come with internet capabilities. I include my subsequent Motorola Razr, Nokia N70 and LG Shine among them. I've surfed the web using them all.

Try not to get too blinded by the Iphone/Smartphone thing. Do a little research on the popular phones around now. No-one needs to be a geek. A simple Google for 'Mobile Phone Browser' and a very small java download will suffice to get anyone on the web via their mobile today. Direct to the phone if doing so via the now included 'built in' default browser ( Nokia now include Opera ) if they want to try something else.

Nothing fancy there. :td:

i will point out again what i posted a while back, the businessweek.com home page is about 454,000K, the businessweek.mobi home page is _12K_

My browser just downloaded the homepage (.com) as 11k, text only. Which is exactly my point. I can switch between versions of the same page.

with relatively expensive data plans that deliver data slowly

Wifi is now included in the latest phones. Which of course in a few months time will be selling on Ebay for £50 as the new 'latest phones' supercede them with even more options.
Datacharges become irrelevant if people are surfing via free wifi at home, in thier local coffee shop or McDonalds. Data plans even now are now becoming 'all inclusive' with some actively promoting 'unlimitied web browsing' along with text/sms/mms and calls. Again, prices will fall when wifi enabled phones become, as they inevitably will, the norm very shortly.

You've never surfed much yourself via your mobile then ? Again, I'd suggest you have a go yourself for a few weeks and then come back to this thread.

ps Namepros.com is ok to browse. No side scrolling or zooming in. Just text and the phone joystick to read and enjoy the posts. ( see attachments). Nothing too difficult.

 

[acc]

daveyboy, worry all you want.

binary, spot on.

Dot mobi is here today to try to provide a branded trustmark that allows surfers to find guaranteed --> handheld accessible <-- content. Content offered in bite size chunks for those who want it and full size content on subdirectiories that can expand

Novels ---> Cliff notes
Business books ---> business book summaries
Consumer info ---> Bottom Line Personal newsletter
World news outlets ---> drudgereport.com / idrudgereport.mobi

In all examples above the original form of the information has not been replaced ... but has been supplemented by the advent and acceptance of the scaled down presentation version of the original sources

So yes "user choice" is one way to look at it. As this mobile web gets rolling, users can (by going to a .mobi site) choose to KNOW that they will access QUICK loading content ... or ... they can choose (by going to a .com/.other site) and likely/possibly WAIT for entire bloated, framed, tabled, graphic intensive, Flash-delivered web page ... and every page they follow via links will do the same.

- dotMobi is taking its option to the public - it is only 1-1/2 years in and the mobile web is brand new.
- Large European companies are adopting and introducinging mobi sites the fastest - they have always been a couple years ahead of the US in cell usage and adoption
- It has a few site building guidelines to adhere to now and CAN adapt and expand them down the road if necessary
- it is a worldwide extension with a purpose - a purpose - just like book summaries and all the analogies posted above
- at the very very very least .mobi is an extension and generic terms can always be used to build out sites with useful information.

Thanks for telling us all how it is and that we don't know what we are talking about and that our views of the mobi world are wrong. Maybe I will wait a few weeks before coming back to this thread. It would be nicer to hear your viewpoints and experiences from a slightly shorter horse.
.

 

[sags]

"Datacharges become irrelevant if people are surfing via free wifi at home, in thier local coffee shop or McDonalds. Data plans even now are now becoming 'all inclusive' with some actively promoting 'unlimitied web browsing' along with text/sms/mms and calls. Again, prices will fall when wifi enabled phones become, as they inevitably will, the norm very shortly".

Free or cheap unlimited plans?

Perhaps today, when there are few customers but not likely in a future world where tens of millions of customers would log on and stay on without limitation.

That would translate into a big financial problem for the service providers.

With a "finite" amount of bandspace at their disposal, they would have "fewer" customers, using "more" bandspace, for "less" revenue.

Not a business plan, most telco investors would embrace.

 

[davieboy]

T-Mobile Web n Walk

( note : 'unlimited access')

Wifi Enabled phones

Ummmm ok. Unlimited and cheap plans may well cause trouble for the service providers. Unforunatley it I don't think it'll stop the phone manufacturers providing wifi as a built in option. Unless you're party to something I'm not ?

You think Nokia are out to make T-Mobile a profit ? :td:

With a "finite" amount of bandspace at their disposal,

Customers use their OWN bandspace, or freely provided hotspots rather like wifi does for laptops now. You think mobile phone wifi won't go the same way ? :td: Because, IMHO it will. Just 5 years ago you couldn't imagine ever getting away from dial-up ISP providers who coined in x-amount per minute. Cheap unlimited broadband packages and wifi access took over pretty quickly didn't it ? Same will happen here. Again, you're blinkered if you dismiss this lightly.

when there are few customers

For the iPhone mabye, not for the majority of genuinely good value phones at the top end. 1 million N95's and that was BEFORE Xmas and before the 8GB version hit the shelves.. iPhone trying to cover up what a flop it's been. I've already pointed out that older phones which cost peanuts now on Ebay, can browse just fine using free Java based browsers.

Nokia N95 Sales

i-Phone UK sales

Wake up people. HSPDA technology, wifi-enabled phones, cheaper unlimited dataplans, mobile friendly browsers and 'in-house downloads', the most dangerous of all for .mobi IMHO, from the likes of Youtube are all advancing so fast that .mobi's very purpose is in danger.

I realise the the US is well behind Europe in implemeting the above. But it's all there, coming and coming soon and not just for the 'geeks'.

I also realise that some of this isn't what people want to hear, but I think that given the amount of money invested in this,..some need a bit of a reality check and realise that this particular domain tld is absolutely dependant on the mobile technology that surrounds it. No two ways about it. That technology, like dial-up compared to broadband, is marching on very quickly. . Mobi is in danger of being stuck catering to the equivilent of mobile dial-up users while the rest of the world discovers quicker, cheaper and always available mobile broadband via their new phones, mobile friendly browsers and in-house downloads from big sites. Which, even better, offer many choices as to what their screen shows at the touch of a button. Text or Flash ? Your choice.

I'm hanging on to my .mobi's. I bought them hoping that a default .mobi button would start appearing on new phones. That hasn't happened and it doesn't look like it will Now I'm hoping that given the new technologies and phones that .mobi will lift some of it's limitations and I'll be able to capitalise on their keywords, shortness ( LLL's ) and that some priority given to them when searches are performed on a mobile device.

Dial up was so sloooow and expensive, and so now for many of you is mobile access to the web. But it's changing, don't hang on to the view that it won't and can't. Broadband speed cheap data and wifi mobile access to the web is here now. It will soon be very cheaply accessible as mobile providers all fall over themselves trying undercut the competition with the 'latest, fastest and cheapest, just as web ISP's do now.

I know once again that I'll probably be shot down in flames for my post. But I can only speak how I find. I bought a wifi-enabled second hand phone for £80 on Ebay, I have an unlimited 'web n walk' plan with T-mobile which costs me £22 monthly and a free mobile friendly browser installed on it. I have a wifi router at home. Geeky, no, pretty normal I'd have thought ? I have no restraints on downloading content as long as I am within range of a wifi spot at home or travelling around ( its free). I have no restraints either via my phone provider ( it's covered unless I go really mad with the downloads).

Sorry but that just doesn't scream 'expensive' to me the way some are trying to make out here. :

Oh and in the US

Verizon and Vodafone have a coordinated trial plan for LTE that begins in 2008. Trial suppliers include Alcatel-Lucent, Ericsson, Motorola, Nokia-Siemens, and Nortel. These suppliers, along with others in the world community, have contributed significantly towards development of the standards in 3GPP. Discussions with device suppliers have expanded beyond traditional suppliers such as LG, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia, and Sony Ericsson, as consumer electronics companies anticipate embedded wireless functionality in their future products.

 

[mjnels]

I'm hanging on to my .mobi's. I bought them hoping that a default .mobi button would start appearing on new phones. That hasn't happened and it doesn't look like it will

that was your first mistake and that was hype.

it seems to me that you are thinking about this too deeply... at the very least .mobi is just one of the many ways to denote that a website is for mobile or a mobile-related thing..

much like m.domain.com, mobile.domain.com, domain.com/mobile, i-phone specific applications, and ANY mobile-device-specific application..

if right now, my iphone downloaded at 5g speeds... i would still prefer the site be formatted for a small screen device OR/AND for the mobile context, assuming no relevant info was excluded or usability hindered.

.mobi is not completely about technology... excuse the cliche but "think outside the box"

it is just an extention at the very very base level... the sooner you get rid of your expectations of what you think it should be - you may start to see the glass half full.

 

[accent]

The second-highest bidder for Music.mobi - and thus the second highest bidder for any .mobi to date - was planning to present music downloads to the mobile market. Branding his business with the .mobi extension served a real purpose in his plan - it clearly told his market that this site was deliberately and purposely built especially for mobile use - not for PC use and then "adapted" but directly built for Mobile.

Plus he had the advantage of his keyword being available for a small fraction of the cost of the com.

A keyword .mobi name has meaning - it is a first rank extension for mobile use. .Com is too, agreed, but .com is a whole lot more expensive, and the best names are often locked up and not for sale. Someone planning a mobile-centered website can get a "main street" brand with .mobi. It is a tremendous opportuntity.

 

[DomainTalker]

Personally, I'm grateful to davieboy for his take on this - and for passing along what he's found out so far...


Competition is a fact of life - competition in everything......Competition for ideas, for money, for sporting achievement, for position in life....for stamps, tiddlywinks, and short odds racehorses...lol


...And, imo, competition in the mobile space is/will be no different.....It'll be the new goldrush....Every major player - and players we've yet to hear about (maybe some of us here?) - and a whole raft of tinpot scumballs, too - will want a piece of this mobile action...


We'll get promises of herculean proportions about performance, and price-advantage, and go-go-gizmos, and super-snappy phones 'n software, browsers, and effortless zero-cost info-on-the-go...

All to be expected.


Why I'm grateful to davieboy is that he reminds me about perspective - and the fundamentals of competition.....I happen to feel that .mobi has a better than evens chance of carving out an important slice - maybe a huge slice - of the mobile web access protocols - for all the reasons we've explored so often....But, it ain't a done deal.


Like any business, we are wise to watch - and understand - competitive threats.....And, when we see them - not to dismiss them - but to react competitively.......mobi has a chance - but only if it performs better than alternatives, and only if it meets user's (both business & consumer) needs better than other options...


And, if some of the emerging services that davieboy is talking about look like having traction - then, first, we better understand them - and, then we better make sure .mobi meets the needs better than they do....just brushing them off as automatically of no account is dangerous, imo.


For me, if davieb's European observations lead him to notice emergent threats that may circumvent .mobi via fast-developing browser technology, inexpensive broadband/wireless delivery capability, and commonplace phone capabilities, then I, for one, want to understand whats going on....and, start to think about what else I, and we, and mTLD etc etc should maybe be doing to make sure that .mobi is just better - and, the super-choice for mobile...


As I said, we're in competition....And, imo, the competition for the idea of .mobi - and its place in the scheme of things - will be the most brutal of all.....A competition we must win, to have a prosperous future.


...And if mTLD has to lift its game - if it is heading towards being the 'dial-up' technology of the mobile world.....then, lets help them lift their game, too. There are no sacred cows here.


...Basically, its great to believe....But, its better to recognise a threat (if there is one), understand it - and then beat it.



Comps to davieboy for reminding me that there may be nasties in our space up in them thar hills...

.

 

[Pred]

Personally, I'm grateful to davieboy for his take on this - and for passing along what he's found out so far...


Competition is a fact of life - competition in everything......Competition for ideas, for money, for sporting achievement, for position in life....for stamps, tiddlywinks, and short odds racehorses...lol


...And, imo, competition in the mobile space is/will be no different.....It'll be the new goldrush....Every major player - and players we've yet to hear about (maybe some of us here?) - and a whole raft of tinpot scumballs, too - will want a piece of this mobile action...


We'll get promises of herculean proportions about performance, and price-advantage, and go-go-gizmos, and super-snappy phones 'n software, browsers, and effortless zero-cost info-on-the-go...

All to be expected.


Why I'm grateful to davieboy is that he reminds me about perspective - and the fundamentals of competition.....I happen to feel that .mobi has a better than evens chance of carving out an important slice - maybe a huge slice - of the mobile web access protocols - for all the reasons we've explored so often....But, it ain't a done deal.


Like any business, we are wise to watch - and understand - competitive threats.....And, when we see them - not to dismiss them - but to react competitively.......mobi has a chance - but only if it performs better than alternatives, and only if it meets user's (both business & consumer) needs better than other options...


And, if some of the emerging services that davieboy is talking about look like having traction - then, first, we better understand them - and, then we better make sure .mobi meets the needs better than they do....just brushing them off as automatically of no account is dangerous, imo.


For me, if davieb's European observations lead him to notice emergent threats that may circumvent .mobi via fast-developing browser technology, inexpensive broadband delivery capability, and commonplace phone capabilities, then I, for one, want to understand whats going on....and, start to think about what else I, and we, and mTLD etc etc should maybe be doing to make sure that .mobi is just better - and, the super-choice for mobile...


As I said, we're in competition....And, imo, the competition for the idea of .mobi - and its place in the scheme of things - will be the most brutal of all.....A competition we must win, to have a prosperous future.


...And if mTLD has to lift its game - if it is heading towards being the 'dial-up' technology of the mobile world.....then, lets help them lift their game, too. There are no sacred cows here.


...Basically, its great to believe....But, its better to recognise a threat (if there is one), understand it - and then beat it.



Comps to davieboy for reminding me that there may be nasties in our space up in them thar hills...

.

:sold:
repped

 

[miitree]

I'm actually not sure how to develop my .mobi's at the moment. They seem so 'bland' in comparison to the above.

I think the mobile pages on USA Today is the best approach. I use the iPhone and the mobile version of USA Today and IMHO is much better than calling it up full size.

-Al