question Selling Domains Direct, Straight To Bank, No Escrow, No Marketplace?

[JB Lions]

Has anybody sold a domain that way? I usually do it thru a Marketplace or Escrow. I have a buyer that said:

"This whole escrow thing doesn’t work at
all.

I run a company with $6.5billion
in transactions and it is the worst payment
site I’ve come across.

"If you can send your account details, we will transfer the funds to you and you can transfer the URL us."

It's a big company, I've checked them out.

Any downsides to that? I guess they would just need the same info the Escrow sites need, routing number and such, right?

 

[MapleDots]

Has anybody sold a domain that way? I usually do it thru a Marketplace or Escrow. I have a buyer that said:

"This whole escrow thing doesn’t work at
all.

I run a company with $6.5billion
in transactions and it is the worst payment
site I’ve come across.

"If you can send your account details, we will transfer the funds to you and you can transfer the URL us."

It's a big company, I've checked them out.

Any downsides to that? I guess they would just need the same info the Escrow sites need, routing number and such, right?

That's the only way I do it, I sell through my landers and then process any payment up to 10k directly through my company merchant credit card account. If it's over 10k I ask for a bank transfer or a certified cheque.

In Canada we also have e-Transfer of 3k per day and I often ask people to make multiple transfers. I even buy domains like that because there are no costs to an e-transfer.

Now as far as @Rob Monster cautioning you against unauthorized transactions, that can easily be mitigated. I have a dedicated transfer account that contains no more than $25 and when I receive funds in it I transfer them to another account. I never give the info of an account that has a lot of money in it.

The last part is a solid bill of sale specifying the domain remains your property until paid in full and has a no refund policy. Make sure to get that signed and any payment should have the domain name on it, I always insist upon that when I buy or sell.

When done right it is the most economical way of doing business and has almost zero risk. I mean when you think about it escrow is not going to give you any money back if there is fraud either so other than saving money I have had no down side.

 

[MapleDots]

That's a whole lot of new stuff I would have to research. I use Efty and they have Stripe integration but then do I have chargeback concerns?

We'll see how this one goes, then I'm going to start researching some other solutions. I like things to run smooth as possible, want to get them thru the checkout process fast and smooth as well.

Lot more reading and research ahead.

A good bill of sales and terms cover charge backs. I only had two and when I provided the bill of sale as evidence to my merchant account the funds were given back to me. On a charge back the funds go into a holding account until both parties have their say. One cannot really argue against an iron clad bill of sale and I never worried about the charge backs. I do over 1.5 million per year in one of my online stores and have thousands of transactions. Charge back attempts are easily taken care of with a good TOS (Terms of Sale) or a proper bill of sale. I apply the same principles to all my businesses and so far everything has gone perfectly and by so far I mean almost 20 years.

 

[Rob Monster]

Well, you surely don't see that one every day.

The only scenario where I can see people getting cute is when you hand over your bank coordinates and some it is used it to run unauthorized ACH transactions against your account. That happens.

If it truly is the big company and you are receiving correspondence from an email that matches the domain name. Just make sure you can correspond back and forth with them at those addresses in order to validate not a spoof.

Many bigger companies ask for a purchase and sale agreement. However, when you are dealing with a high enough exec, they can just make the call and not worry about CYA to their boss.

You are a smart guy. If it smells legit, go for it. The downside is on them.

 

[urlurl]

one of my first $x,xxx sales was by cheque, he mailed it to me and after it cleared i sent him the name

 

[NameBuyer.com]

Just don't transfer the domain first. My first real sale in 2004 was to one of the largest gaming companies in the world.

They convinced me it would be too much trouble for them to go through escrow, and they would send it through their account payable department and they'd send me a check.

I agreed, transferred the domain and they had it live within a week. Yet my payment took about 2+ months to receive after spending hours sending emails to all 5-6 people in the company that the transaction was routed through.

Never again. But if they pay by bank wire first, that would be fine.

 

[Rob Monster]

Done deal.

The CEO is calling the shots. Deal Friday. The bank wire will be done in the AM by his EA. Congrats.

Rob

 

[branding]

Selling domains is all about making it as easy as possible for the buyer to purchase. Offering a wire option definitely takes away a hurdle for a lot of CEOs who are accustomed to approving payments for a couple of K.

Most of my sales are done by wire. I send them the invoice with a direct link to make an instant payment, funds are added to my bank account in seconds depending on what bank they're using. Doesn't get any smoother than this if there's a mutual level of trust.

 

[Brands.International]

If it's a big company and it's their CEO, and they will pay you first, and you transfer the name afterwards, there should be no problem in 95% of cases,

...providing you can check their profile on some credible venue (Linkedin or similar). and best is to communicate via such platforms as well, I prefer it to emails.

I personally would still prefer to go via some neutral third party - for example, if they do not like to go via Escrow, offer them to go via Dan.com for example - import the lead there, and it will cost you 5%, but it might give you another layer of assistance, if you feel this is better for you.

Or use another third party as per your choice. I just made a smaller sale few days ago, buyer wanted to go direct (also CEO of a company), but I rather imported the lead to Dan...just somehow felt it is more convenient for me, and I really do not care those 5%.

But given your circumstances, you can also proceed directly imo .. congrats to your sale

 

[bmugford]

Yeah, does anybody know if you have to get verified at DAN? He's having trouble with verification at Escrow, forgot that over $3,000 you have to jump thru some extra hoops.He just contacted me. We'll see.

I was wondering the same thing. I have a lot of Escrow.com transactions fall apart because of their KYC rules that result in an undue burden for many buyers.

Brad

 

[carob]

The bank should just receive the funds. Problems with large amounts are probably mainly for you being checked up on, or money sent from suspicious countries could bring you under suspicion. I would not accept transfer from some countries, not worth it. In the UK this can get your bank account locked and closed with no explanation, in fact they are not allowed to explain.

BUT a known scam - not by the buyer - is for hackers to hack an email account or business computer, watch silently, then when an invoice is to be sent, send one with incorrect bank details. Or follow up with another email saying bank details have changed. The money is almost impossible to recover and this mainly targets big transactions like housebuying, building work etc.

The only way to really protect against this is before paying, ring a known telephone number for the payee and get them to tell you over the phone just what the actual bank account number is.

 

[branding]

It’s like when you want to make a large ticket purchase you still have to let the bank know so they can prepare the money and know where to send it.

It would be easier than getting a mortgage or a loan but still would take more time than just a few minutes.

Also some buyers do get a loan or take out a mortgage to buy that perfect domain.

Lol, yes that can be a pain. I remember a couple of years ago when I had to make a significant downpayment in cash. The bank wanted a notice in advance for a big cash withdrawal but I wasn't gonna make the deadline that way.

I ended up having me and some friends maxing out all of their ATM withdrawal limits at every bank in town to raise the cash

 

[mr-x]

Has anybody sold a domain that way? I usually do it thru a Marketplace or Escrow. I have a buyer that said:

"This whole escrow thing doesn’t work at
all.

I run a company with $6.5billion
in transactions and it is the worst payment
site I’ve come across.

"If you can send your account details, we will transfer the funds to you and you can transfer the URL us."

It's a big company, I've checked them out.

Any downsides to that? I guess they would just need the same info the Escrow sites need, routing number and such, right?

I've done it several times for 4 figure domains. Never had a problem.

 

[TCK]

I understand banks my be different but does yours have limits? Where if it hits a certain limit, does the KYC stuff kick in? You mentioned couple of K, What about 20K, 50K, 100K etc.

Sending invoices, is that thru something like Quickbooks, or just one grabbed off the internet and sent thru email. And direct link to?

Great questions. As far as I understand, all the bank cares about is that the money is transferred.

In any case of large amounts, you want to have a contact person at the bank that checks to ensure everything goes smoothly and gives you guidance. They will be more than happy to help.

How you send the invoice is up to you. There are invoicing software or you can use a template. Send it as PDF.

Include instructions of where to transfer the funds. Your bank will give you the specifics.

DMP allows you do electronically send the instructions as soon as the buyer checks out.

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Yes, in large sum cases you have to work closely with the bank and within their operating schedule.

But in the majority of domain sales XXX to XX,XXX range, wire transfer is very quick and saves you a lot of headaches.

The key is developing trust with the buyer. And that comes down to how you present yourself and your quality of communication.

As mentioned by @MapleDots, here in Canada there is a super-easy way to make direct payments between bank accounts called Interac e-Transfer. Even between accounts in different banks. This would suffice for majority of domain sales. Quicker still than wire transfer. All you need is an email address and create a security question. Looks like now Canadians can send money internationally as well.

https://www.interac.ca/en/interac-e-transfer-goes-international-in-collaboration-with-nanopay.html

Surely there must be equivalent or compatible systems in the US, Europe and elsewhere to send money internationally as well.

That may be Zelle here in the USA. https://www.zellepay.com

Is there a limit on the amount of money I can send and receive with Zelle?
Your financial institution determines this. Please reach out to your bank or credit union directly to find out what specific limits they have for their customers.

So you still need to discuss with your local bank what the limits are but who knows, maybe a combination of credit card payment + this method + another method... it gets the job done, the domain sold and then transferred..

I found my bank's limits and terms by searching google "my bank name" + zelle limit

 

[ResoluteDomains]

Big list here - https://www.escrow.com/support/identity-verification

...........
What do I need to verify my identity on Escrow.com?
You will be required to provide the following documents and specify the details of these documents on the Verify Your Identity page:

• Proof of Identity document
• Proof of Address document

If you wish to verify the identity on a company account, you must provide the above documents in addition to proof of company registration.

Acceptable Proof of Identity documents:

You must upload a colored scan of a valid government-issued photo ID which includes your full name, date of birth, signature and date of issue. This may include:

• Passport
• Driver's License
• National ID card
• Tax ID
• Proof of Age ID
• Professional License ID
• State ID
• Voter's ID
• Postal ID
• Government-issued Health Cards
• Other IDs - as long as it is government-issued and has your name, photo, date of birth, and signature and its date of issue.

Acceptable Proof of Address documents:
You must upload a colored scan of a document showing your full name and full address. This may include:

• Bank Statement (issued within the last three months)
• Utility Bills (issued within the last three months)
• Income Tax Return Form (issued within the last year)
• Residence ID/Permit
• Notarized Leasing Agreement/Contract (issued within the last year)
• Passbook (issued within the last year only)
• A valid government-issued ID as long as it has your name, photo, date of birth, and signature and its date of issue.

Document requirements

• Documents such as passports and licenses should not be expired.
• Document details must not be handwritten.
• Documents must not be altered or edited in any way.
• Documents should be a colored image scan or colored digital photo with a high-quality resolution. Photocopies and black and white scans/photos are not acceptable.
• Do not crop, adjust image colors, or alter the file in any way.
• Image dimensions must be at least 500 x 300 pixels (minimum).
• If you are submitting an ID card, submit its front and back parts.
• Files must be in the format JPEG, PNG, GIF or PDF, and by less than 100MB in size.
• If you are submitting a document which is an e-bill or e-bank statement, the PDF copy should not be password-protected.
• Submission of fake, or altered documents will result in account closure and may lead to legal actions.

Yep - KYC...... I will not do business with them any more. Or anyone requiring that information. I've said this in other threads regarding this topic but its worth mentioning it again - when it comes to my PII I am holding it as close to the chest as possible. Also, I am fully vetted by my bank / financial institution. They do all of the above and if I want a bank account with a bank these days that is what I have to do. Fine. I do it, they walk over to the copy machine make a copy of my license or whatever I give them and they put it into my file. As much as I dislike saying this, I trust my bank not to lose my documents in my file. I know them, I bank there. I do not know and therefore do not trust escrow.com will keep my PII safe. Not one ounce.

But my point is, if I am trusted BY MY FINANCIAL INSTITUTION then that trust should carry over to escrow.com who is depositing money into that financial institution.

 

[Brands.International]

PS: honestly I have not studied yet what are the levels of verification for buyers on Dan, but if he is CEO of legit and large company, chances are great he will pass the process very smoothly imo.

Btw, they are amazing team and will probably reach out to him directly in case something is not clear...they are fast, efficient, very friendly and very professional...so I do not think they will frustrate him .. give them a chance imo

 

[TCK]

None. I've never got paid like that, but I'm fine with trying it out. Have to wait to see what route he wants to take. Could be asleep, might have quit the deal, might be talking to Escrow on the phone and go that route, might take the direct/wire route. I'm sure I'll know more tomorrow.

You should always offer the option of a wire transfer on your landers and/or marketplace.

 

[TCK]

Doesn't get any smoother than this if there's a mutual level of trust.

This is the key. If you treat your domain sales as a real business then you will be taken seriously by potential buyers.

 

[branding]

I'll contact my bank about it tomorrow. But just curious about some details.

I understand banks my be different but does yours have limits? Where if it hits a certain limit, does the KYC stuff kick in? You mentioned couple of K, What about 20K, 50K, 100K etc.

Sending invoices, is that thru something like Quickbooks, or just one grabbed off the internet and sent thru email. And direct link to?

And like you said there has to be a level of trust for wire transfers, some are just going want to use an Escrow, so if they do, then they'll just have to send the info in.

There are a lot of different 'rules' depending on your Bank and country you reside in I guess. Best would be to have a business bank account as they're usually tailored for bigger transactions.

I don't have a cap on incoming funds (as far as I know) but my limit of sending funds by wire is capped at €14K a day so I guess the same limit could be an issue for the buyer if they want to make a bigger purchase (Mind you I'm by no means a big player so I'm sure multinationals don't have much of a limit ). I can up my cap easily when needed so if that's the case I just log in and temporary adjust the amount to be able to make the payment.

I wrote my own invoicing software as I wanted to tailor it so that it fits my books correctly so I don't need to worry about tax filings etc ( don't know what the heck I'm still paying my account for ). But yeah, you could just pull something off the web and send them a PDF or something and do it manually. Depending on how much invoices you usually need that's an easy fix.

Make sure to lookup what info should be on it as for legal reasons some things are mandatory.

I include a link in the PDF and email to my banks payment processor so they can just click it and make the wire. There are loads of solutions for this, some take a small fee. Most of my sales are to national companies and we have a national epayment system that works with all banks so that's a bliss.

You could also just include your bank details in the email and request them to make the payment. They're probably used to make payments that way anyway.

When there are concerns about trust, sure an escrow service is the way to go. For a sale with a high amount it makes sense to do so ofcourse. But you know, on a smaller sale using escrow is a lot of hassle to go through for a buyer if it's an impulse purchase and he never used escrow before.

Look at it this way, when you buy a car you pay up and get the car afterwards right? I don't mind paying the dealer 30K. I trust him to deliver. (I'm not sure how this works in the US but let's say you don't need a loan etc.).

Anyway, loads of angles have been covered by others already but to conclude; if someone trusts me enough to make a wire I see no reason not to accommodate that wish

 

[frank-germany]

Has anybody sold a domain that way? I usually do it thru a Marketplace or Escrow. I have a buyer that said:

"This whole escrow thing doesn’t work at
all.

I run a company with $6.5billion
in transactions and it is the worst payment
site I’ve come across.

"If you can send your account details, we will transfer the funds to you and you can transfer the URL us."

It's a big company, I've checked them out.

Any downsides to that? I guess they would just need the same info the Escrow sites need, routing number and such, right?

that's what I most often do in Germany
there is no risk to you
as far as I know of

 

[TCK]

Lol, yes that can be a pain. I remember a couple of years ago when I had to make a significant downpayment in cash. The bank wanted a notice in advance for a big cash withdrawal but I wasn't gonna make the deadline that way.

Yes, in large sum cases you have to work closely with the bank and within their operating schedule.

But in the majority of domain sales XXX to XX,XXX range, wire transfer is very quick and saves you a lot of headaches.

The key is developing trust with the buyer. And that comes down to how you present yourself and your quality of communication.

As mentioned by @MapleDots, here in Canada there is a super-easy way to make direct payments between bank accounts called Interac e-Transfer. Even between accounts in different banks. This would suffice for majority of domain sales. Quicker still than wire transfer. All you need is an email address and create a security question. Looks like now Canadians can send money internationally as well.

https://www.interac.ca/en/interac-e-transfer-goes-international-in-collaboration-with-nanopay.html

Surely there must be equivalent or compatible systems in the US, Europe and elsewhere to send money internationally as well.

 

[JB Lions]

This deal is still up in the air. He asked for my bank account details for the wire Friday night, then the next morning I get a 3 way email, where somebody from Escrow wrote, that it was their pleasure to help, how did they want to proceed with the transaction. Which reads to me, maybe they finally got him authenticated. I'll touch base with them again Monday.

So I think he was getting frustrated with first having to send info in. Then waiting to get authenticated. And he also wasn't to happy with the site, he apparently was having issues.

So with sales. First you have this trust thing. And if you do, then you pretty much have to use an Escrow. Then if you use Escrow, then at a certain amount, with Escrow.com it's $3,000, then you have to do a little extra. Send in colored scans of this and that. Which is a pain. Not sure if this has to be done with every Escrow company, but if so and if it is the law, KYC law, there isn't much you can do about that. And if you really want the domain, then you gotta do what you gotta do.

So if trust is not an issue. Then it's how to move money with hopefully no roadblocks being thrown up. Looks like wire transfer is the fastest way most people do it. Of course depending on the amount there is Paypal, Credit cards, what was mentioned about Zelle, then you have all kinds of other things, like Venmo, CashApp, some other mobile way etc. Trying to find out which is the most popular way, which are the ways I can't get screwed where they take their money back somehow etc.

But with large amounts, I think buyers want some type of protection So not sure how you get around not using some Escrow. So maybe the Escrow sites can work on making people having to send info in, as smooth as possible.

 

[JB Lions]

Wait for the money in your bank account before to send the domain name.. After all what you said they seem trusted.

Yep, this was handed off to the CFO, they sent wire, hit my bank today. Nice and quick, I like it. Just have to transfer it over now.

This one was annoying because it could have been lost because the KYC laws/site issues or him just getting frustrated with the authentication process. We emailed back and forth quite a few times, so I think trust was established, which enabled taking this route. I've had some others I've probably lost because of this, don't know, this is the first one to email talking about the problems.

Still need to figure out the Escrow stuff, if they all require sending in stuff after hitting a certain amount. It's just going to kill sales.

 

[JB Lions]

But..if you have good feeling about buyer, then just send him your bank account details and let him pay you first. Should be by wire transfer imo. as methods like paypal or cc can be subjects of chargebacks (in case someone later change the mind, and it can happen)

I really prefer to go via third parties though, as it is much harder for buyers to back off from the deals, (once they paid), as their are bound by TOS of third party provider...if you do deals directly with someone, you do not have this additional layer of protection (hence I rather pay those 5% personally). So it is really up to your judgement if you prefer third party or direct.

I emailed him asking what the issues are and in the same email asked if he was talking about bank wire and what info he needed from me. He replied just telling me he couldn't get past the authentication page. I was in Live Chat with Escrow at the same time asking about cancelling. I emailed him back telling him over $3,000 he needs to get verified, also gave him the number to call them directly, maybe they can do it over the phone. So because he didn't reply to the question about bank wire, I think he could still be open to figuring the Escrow stuff out. So, will see in the next email. I would be fine with direct, just to even try it out and get some experience with it, have never done it that way. Then time zone issues on top of that, could be to bed already. I'm fine with either way, it's really up to him at this point. This should be easier.

 

[mr-x]

Escrow will require proof of corporation, pic of company seal, etc.. Pain in the ass.

Routing and account # are on every check. You can't start an ACH or wire from an account you don't own so it's not really a problem.