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Redemption Fee - mandatory or discretionary?

Labeled as question in General Domain Discussion, started by NickB, Jan 15, 2021

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  1. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    Had an interesting chat with someone today.....

    Couple of years ago he dropped a couple of LLLL.com domains, one to do with his business and one was his initials.....had owned them for years..

    One is now owned by Buy Domains because he refused to pay the redemption fee and the registrar (he can't remember who) said he had to pay it.....

    The other he still owns because again he refused to pay the redemption fee and Tucows finally relented and admitted it was a discretionary fee and not mandatory and set by ICAAN, which they initially said it was.....

    So.....is the redemption fee mandatory or discretionary?

    If it is in the T&C's of the registrar it becomes mandatory because its in the contract surely....but is it a discretionary fee that the registrars add to make a few extra $$$

    We then had a talk about auto renewals, transfers etc.....he wasn't that pissed off just curious on the different outcomes.....and so am I, hence this post....
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  2. Mister Funsky

    Mister Funsky Top Contributor VIP

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    Good question. I just pulled the below from bluehost:

    A redemption period occurs when a domain has been expired for 30 days. This 30-day redemption period provides the most recent registrant an opportunity to renew the domain before the domain is released back into the general pool of domains available for anyone to register. There is a fee, required by ICANN, to renew a domain out of the redemption holding period, which is paid to the registry itself and it cannot be waived.

    https://www.bluehost.com/help/article/domain-redemption

    The amount charged by a particular registrar is up to them (penalize or not). I'm sure others with better info will post soon and I look forward to what they share.

    Back in the day, when this wacky net thing was being born, I bought a 3 word (crazy, right?) domain from a reseller that beat the register.com pricing...one that fit one of my businesses perfectly. On that domain I ran, at the time, one of the largest lingerie sites on the net. The name expired (just too busy for my own good) and when I went to renew it, within 24 hours of the expire, the registrar reseller wanted $500. I regged a much better name, in my mind, and moved the site. It turns out they sat on the domain for years and it sold about 5 years ago for about $6000.

    If the clown that owns that 'service' were on fire, I would not p*ss on him to put the flames out. :xf.smile:
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  3. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    Interesting and thanks for the info!....so ICANN have a set fee, most likely minimal? Then the registrars add their pound of flesh.....would be interesting to see what the ICANN fee is and if it could be reasonably absorbed by the normal renewal fees.....no mention of ICANN fees below ( I think) spelt icann right this time!

    https://www.icann.org/resources/unthemed-pages/registry-agmt-appg-2003-08-19-en#:~:text=Fee for Restoring Deleted Domain Name Registrations&text=The fee for restoring an,must not exceed US $40.00.

    Also don't know if the above is up to date?

    Crazy bloody fee they tried charging you....like the Wild West back then by the look of it
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  4. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TheDomains Staff TLDInvestors.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes there is a redemption fee some higher than others. The mandate of a specific price I am not sure.

    @Rob Monster @Paul Nicks @Dynadot
     
  5. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    Do you know what the ICANN fee is?

    Edit - I assume it is universal across all registrars....
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  6. Daniel Owens

    Daniel Owens Top Contributor VIP Gold Account

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    Some registers only charge a redemption penalty of about $9 plus the renewal cost of around $9 for the .com domain so you basically end up paying double. I think godaddy redemption fee is $85. Dynadot is low redemption fee the GD seems excessive
     
  7. Daniel Owens

    Daniel Owens Top Contributor VIP Gold Account

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    @Joe Styler Why is the godaddy redemption fee so high?
     
  8. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    I understand there are variable redemption fees.......the why is what is interesting and the justification from each registrar would be nice to see.........

    And still the question of the ICANN fee is out there if anyone knows what it is :xf.smile:
     
  9. Mister Funsky

    Mister Funsky Top Contributor VIP

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    ADD: I am still looking...below is the org info

    Not to exceed $40
    • The fee for restoring an unintentionally deleted domain name in the Redemption Grace Period must not exceed US $40.00.

    https://www.icann.org/resources/unthemed-pages/registry-agmt-appg-2003-08-19-en#:~:text=Fee for Restoring Deleted Domain Name Registrations&text=The fee for restoring an,must not exceed US $40.00.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  10. Daniel Owens

    Daniel Owens Top Contributor VIP Gold Account

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    "The fee for restoring an unintentionally deleted domain name in the Redemption Grace Period must not exceed US $40.00."
    So it must not exceed $40 if that's the case then GD is charging higher redemption fees then they should so it would be interesting to hear what Mr. Styler has to say

    "
    Redemption Grace Period Restore Fee US$ 40 Per Restore Command/request Yes, § 4.4"

    So maybe icann charges $40 but I was doubting it because not all registers charge that high a redemption fee
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  11. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    exactly what I was going to say......surely this is not what ICANN charge because of what you said.....unless some are doing it as a below cost incentive?
     
  12. Mister Funsky

    Mister Funsky Top Contributor VIP

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    Wow...tons of double speak on the site but I still have not found a simple schedule of fees chart.

    In addition to the direct costs to registry operators associated with the handling of Redemption Grace Period renewals, registry operators might also reasonably expect to be compensated at least in part for the potential lost revenue associated with keeping a large number of domain names "on hold" and ineligible for registration during the grace period. A majority of the names that would be subject to the Redemption Grace Period would not in fact be redeemed. While the names are on hold, the registry operator would be unable to return those names to the pool of names available for registration.

    https://archive.icann.org/en/registrars/redemption-supplement-20feb02.htm

    ADD: Lots of dead links

    Under current specifications, registry operators (except for .name) will "auto-renew" all domain registrations at the time of their expiration. Registrars are immediately charged the registry fee for a one-year renewal of the registration. Registrars are then given forty-five days to attempt to secure a renewal payment from the current registrant. If the current registrant does not pay a renewal fee, the registrar explicitly deletes the registration. (See Subsection 3.7.5 of the Registrar Accreditation Agreement.) If the registrar deletes the registration within forty-five days after the auto-renewal, the registry operator credits the auto-renewal fee back to the registrar.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  13. Mister Funsky

    Mister Funsky Top Contributor VIP

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    I need a drink now...been speed reading but still have no clear idea of pricing/fees. This, however, is interesting:

    Notice to Registrants of Fees and Procedures: Paragraph 4.1.1 of the policy requires registrars to, at a minimum, include renewal fees, post-expiration renewal fees (if different), and redemption/restore fees in the registration agreement (and on their websites, if a website is used). Registrars are, however, encouraged to present these fees in a sufficiently prominent manner at the time of registration to help registrants make an informed decision and avoid confusion, particularly if renewal prices are anticipated to be greater than the registration or transfer fee being charged.

    https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/errp-2013-02-28-en
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  14. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    What a bureaucratic nightmare (again) from ICANN - a simple question on what their bloody fee is for domains in the redemption period descends into pages and pages of shite......

    So each registrar can charge what they want during the redemption period
    ICANN says it should be no more than $40 but then go on to say they should be "reasonably compensated" - this leads to a free for all in redemption charges
    And still no mention on what ICANN charge

    Might need to join you in that drink.......oh wait I'm having one already :xf.wink:

    Edit - I am going to wait until (hopefully) a registrar rep responds to this thread because it is all conjecture at this point and I want to watch a documentary
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  15. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I believe that the Registrars can forgive the extra fees that they charge to renew a domain within the first 35 days, but they cannot forgive the fees that are charged by the Registry once the expiration goes past that 35 day deadline.

    please note that the numbers provided might not be exact since I am just going by memory, also this is mainly for .com (Verisign) it might be different for other TLDs.

    Recently I renewed a few domains that had been expired for a little over a month at Epik and they waved the extra fees and let me renew them at the regular prices, also they used to do the same thing for me at Godaddy when I had enough domains to be a member of their VIP Premiere Club. And they also have helped me with this at Fabulous too in the past, which I believe they give the full 35 days to everyone automatically nowadays.

    Basically what it comes down to is that you have to ask and your Registrar has to like you enough to want to do it since it's totally at their discretion in the first 35 days or so if they want to do it for you.

    I also have been using Register.com for my main email and domain for over 20 years now and although there hasn't been any redemption fees involved with them, but they have consistently given me pretty good discounts on renewals over the years.

    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with anyone and I like the four mentioned Registrars in my post the same since I have had a good experience using them for my domains.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  16. CraigD

    CraigD Top Contributor VIP

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    The fee quoted here is for .org TLD.

    Other TLD's may have a different fee.
     
  17. karmaco

    karmaco Top Contributor VIP

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    I think this part is subject to interpretation unintentionally deleted domain

    How do you unintentionally delete a domain? Might be why the fees are whatever
    they (registrar) not registry decide it should be.
     
  18. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    So going on this the redemption fee is discretionary? Also it is it looks like it just boils down to favouritism in some cases and looking after their cash cows - people with large portfolios.....looking after your best customers is understandable, but basing a decision on whether you like someone or not is not good business practice.....imo

    I am assuming that the ICANN fee must be very small then if the registrars can waive the charge if they choose to......

    It is annoying me slightly that none of the reps replied to this thread....you would think they would like to explain to their customers why they charge a redemption fee and also a breakdown of the fees (including ICANN's) and any additional work involved to justify it - or even a link to an ICANN fee table that is up to date would be handy......also why they charge some of their customers and not others.......
     
  19. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You have to make sure that you use the correct term,

    Domain Grace Period at the Registrar apparently Could be upto to 45 days from the expiration date and it is up to each registrar how much extra fee they want to charge you (which I believe can be from zero up to the max $40 that has been mentioned by others here).

    Domain Redemption Period which last for 30 days after the domain grace period ends is where the domain has to be redeemed at the Registry and the fee is out of the Registrars' hands ( I believe it's an additional $40 or $45 which might be higher for some of the New gTLDs)

    Domain Deletion Period last for 5 days and starts after the domain redemption period, this is the period where the domain enters deletion at the Registry and I believe cannot be renewed.

    As far as favoritism goes you are correct it is totally at the Registrars' discretion if they want to wave their portion of the fees, but in my case I have never had a really big portfolio so I am guessing that they must have liked me perhaps because I have had my domains with them for a long time.

    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with anyone and the above is just my understanding of this situation, the numbers provided might not be exact so best to to verify all this info by doing your own resarch instead of just relying on the memory of an oldtimer. :rolleyes:

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  20. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    This is the bit I have been talking about - in my original post the guy told me Tucows waived the redemption fee as they originally said it was mandatory and set by ICANN then they changed it to saying it was discretionary - he only had that 1 domain with them......

    So the registry redemption fee is mandatory and do ICANN make anything from the redemption fees?

    I then assume each registrar then puts their own mark up on the $40 - $45 registry fee which explains the difference in prices.......but as @Daniel Owens said above some companies charge less the $40 odd dollars to redeem the domain in this period - which is what is causing me some confusion.....
     
  21. anantj

    anantj Top Contributor VIP

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    Epik is around the same. IIRC, USD 80 or USD 90
     
  22. anantj

    anantj Top Contributor VIP

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    So interestingly, Epik has reduced the renewal grace period to 15 days. The only registrar that I know of (and use regularly) which has done this. Most others, DD and Namesilo being the best, give at least 30 days. GD is somewhere in between but GD is confusing af to me cos they're processes/timeslines are confusing due to the aftermarket for the expired domain stream.

    So I think registrars also take their pound of flesh (to copy what @NickB said), in terms of the number of days of the renewal grace period
     
  23. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It might be possible to get the Redemption fee waved too if you talk to the Registry itself in cases where a mistake might have happened somewhere that was out of your hand.

    As far as ICANN goes I believe the only money that they make from domains is the 25 cents fee that is added to every registration (and whatever fees they charge the Registries for application fees or maintenance and renewal fees of their accreditation).

    IMO
     
  24. NickB

    NickB Wales.org VIP

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    Great job - thanks to everyone who contributed

    It's much clearer now :xf.smile:

    Think the guy must have complained long and hard to get the fee waivered, not something that is easily done by the look of it OR he got mixed up with the grace period stage (will ask him as this could be a strong possibility after reading through all this!)
     
  25. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    In any case it's always best to refer to the TOS for your Registrar since it seems that there might be some differences in the way that Grace Renewals are handled and charged for.

    And remember if you are nice to your Registrar they'll be nice to you too when you ask for a favor.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021

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