.mobi Question: What is fair value?

[newdomainer.mobi]

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' question so please give it the answer that YOU would give.... your fair estimation for a .mobi domain that fits the following; -

1. Is not a premium
2. Is not a trademark / Multi-national etc..
3. Is a company name used by at least 2 unconnected companies
4. Assume that the companies are not Fortune 500 / FTSE but just good old local firms who could benefit from a mobile web presence.
5. Examples: "Bluecabs.mobi" "Executivecars.mobi" "Alphataxis.mobi"

You get the idea, the domains have no intrinsic value outside of their specific use but there is more than 1 legitimate user and for the purposes of marketing the company name is all important so the domain should match (so Bluecabz.mobi for example would not be viable).

I would suggest that it is names like these that are the ones that the average domainer is more likely to make money with....

No TM issues
Ethical as you aren't cybersquatting against only 1 possible end-user
Sell direct to end-users - cut out the middle man

My question is simply this;
What would all of you consider fair value for taking the trouble to register a domain, approach the possible end-users & hopefully achieve a sale. (obviously you have to factor in the ones that don't sell too)

Costs: $7 reg fee - letters / stamps or emails (& time)
Reward: Achieve a sale at what?

$49.00? $99.00? $149.00? $249.00? $499.00? $999.00?

I have put a poll up for a 'scientific result'


Just answer with the price that is closest to what you believe is a price that you would be happy with charging for the domain name.




Please add any comments you feel appropriate -

Why this thread? I just think all this talk of the next $1,000,000 domain is a bit out of touch with our realities (for most of us anyway!) & surely selling a 100 domains at a sensible profit is better than dreaming about the ones we didn't get or the ones that might be worth something if......?)

Has anyone here tried B2B marketing of domains (i.e. going straight to an end user with a domain & not just advertising on-line)

In addition, this approach would lead to hosting opportunities, web design etc.. (commission sales) so all in all, a great little package..

Input greatly appreciated & I'm sure the results will be useful to all of us.

Many thanks

Gary

 

[-REECE-]

This is a 'how long is a piece of string' question so please give it the answer that YOU would give.... your fair estimation for a .mobi domain that fits the following; -

1. Is not a premium
2. Is not a trademark / Multi-national etc..
3. Is a company name used by at least 2 unconnected companies
4. Assume that the companies are not Fortune 500 / FTSE but just good old local firms who could benefit from a mobile web presence.
5. Examples: "Bluecabs.mobi" "Executivecars.mobi" "Alphataxis.mobi"

You get the idea, the domains have no intrinsic value outside of their specific use but there is more than 1 legitimate user and for the purposes of marketing the company name is all important so the domain should match (so Bluecabz.mobi for example would not be viable).

I would suggest that it is names like these that are the ones that the average domainer is more likely to make money with....

No TM issues
Ethical as you aren't cybersquatting against only 1 possible end-user
Sell direct to end-users - cut out the middle man

My question is simply this;
What would all of you consider fair value for taking the trouble to register a domain, approach the possible end-users & hopefully achieve a sale. (obviously you have to factor in the ones that don't sell too)

Costs: $7 reg fee - letters / stamps or emails (& time)
Reward: Achieve a sale at what?

$49.00? $99.00? $149.00? $249.00? $499.00? $999.00?

I have put a poll up for a 'scientific result'

Please add any comments you feel appropriate -
I just think all this talk of the next $1,000,000 domain is a bit out of touch with our realities (for most of us anyway!) & surely selling a 100 domains at a sensible profit is better than dreaming about the ones we didn't get or the ones that might be worth something if......?)

Has anyone here tried B2B marketing of domains (i.e. going straight to an end user with a domain & not just advertising on-line)

In addition, this approach would lead to hosting opportunities, web design etc.. (commission sales) so all in all, a great little package..

Input greatly appreciated & I'm sure the results will be useful to all of us.

Many thanks

Gary

If you'd be comfortable selling the name at a certain price level, I say, sell it at that price level. Sorry to be a little obvious there :hehe:

Okay.. How's this

Sell it for a price that you would not regret in hindsight. Whether that's $49.00, $99.00, etc, depend on you. If you plan on reinvesting that money in additional .mobis, you may opt for a lower price than if you plan on putting the money in your bank account - eg. you sell a $500 name for $250, and manage to get a $1000 with that $250.. Was selling that $500 name for $250 not a good deal?

In the end, it depends on your financial circumstances. I myself, am sitting on almost 1300 domain names, one third of which are .mobis. I'm not a full time domainer, or even a hard core enthusiast -- it's just something I do in my spare time. Getting presented with a XX,XXX renewal bill next year is not something I'm looking forward to. For that reason, I consider offers from as low as $25.00 on names that aren't generic in nature -- because even a little bit ($15.00 profit) over a lot of names adds up immensely. If I could sell every name in my collection for a $15.00 profit over what I paid for it, I'd make almost $20k profit this year.. Not bad

In summary.. Consider your options. Understand your personal financial goals and unique circumstance. Position yourself for a strong, comfortable future.

Whether that means selling your names for $10.00 profit, $100 profit, or $1000 profit is merely a consequence of your unique circumstances. No answer is necessarily right or wrong IMO. BuyDomains does very well for itself marking many names 1000%+ over their reseller value. It's a choice you'll have to make. Are you looking for bargain hunters, resellers, or endusers? Are you looking for a quick profit to reinvest, diversify your holdings, or minimize your risk? Do you have sufficient time to reinvest your money intelligently? Are you confident that the market will remain relatively unchanged, so that you'll be able to profit from reinvesting your money when you choose to do so in the near future?


All questions worth asking. All questions needing an answer before you make a decision :imho:

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

Hi Reece

I have read your post & you make some valid points about the business in general but I may have asked the wrong question or at least asked in the wrong way....

What I was trying to value was how much the service is worth where you present the end user with the opportunity to buy their own company name as a .mobi (given the criteria that I gave).
I'm assuming that there is NO INTRINSIC value in the domain other than being for a handful of businesses as their trading name. I'm also assuming that the value is fixed for all sales (of that nature)
So you would come up with a fair value on the service that you are providing (as part of that sale)....
Forget your portfolio for a moment & picture yourself in the office, making your pitch by phone for example.... with your pc online ready to secure a name that you haven't even bought yet..
You get a sale, you reg the name..... how much do you think the market would price this service at?
I have voted at $249.00 as I think it's high enough to be worth the effort but low enough to provide 'fair value'
This isn't an exercise in valuing domains per se (although it must by default) but in valuing the service (including the domain).... nett of any add-ons you might get such as hosting / web design etc..

I'm sorry if I didn't word the question very well.... hope that clears it up?

Regards

Gary

 

[-REECE-]

You can always send all parties an email and let them know that the name is for sale -- but IMHO, it's just not worth the cost of time atm and the likelihood of being turned down is much, much greater than the likelihood of actually courting a second potential buyer.

Personally, I'd take pretty much anything which I consider to be worth more than my time -- which, granted it's already been sunk in replying to the intial email, I'd be happy to take pretty much anything of minimal profit -- $10-$15 would suit me just fine if that's all I could get out of it. Transferring a domain name is no more than 5 minutes work, so that's a decent hourly wage no (at least here in Canada it is)?

I'd probably start off asking around $500.00 and trying to negotiate from there, but I'd definitely sell it for much less if that's how it goes.. It's worthless other than to them (I think that's a fair assumption to make), so any money is money in my pocket which wouldn't be there otherwise At this point, I'd say it's highly unlikely 2 potential endusers will contact you for a name which is not generic in nature, hence the above conclusion.

I really see .mobi registrations as Jeremy so perfectly elucidated it in his thread.. Your .mobi names are sunk costs. At the end of the day, it's better to get $1 for the name than not renew it and lose that dollar..
Not saying you should sell at $1, of course, but I would never recommend cancelling negotiations on a name which has no value to anyone but a few businesses whom realistically have likely never heard of .mobi nor have any interest in it. If you could get $49.00 for that name (as per your poll), I'd say take it and run. So I guess that'll be my answer -- $49.00

Hi Reece

I have read your post & you make some valid points about the business in general but I may have asked the wrong question or at least asked in the wrong way....

What I was trying to value was how much the service is worth where you present the end user with the opportunity to buy their own company name as a .mobi (given the criteria that I gave).
I'm assuming that there is NO INTRINSIC value in the domain other than being for a handful of businesses as their trading name. I'm also assuming that the value is fixed for all sales (of that nature)
So you would come up with a fair value on the service that you are providing (as part of that sale)....
Forget your portfolio for a moment & picture yourself in the office, making your pitch by phone for example.... with your pc online ready to secure a name that you haven't even bought yet..
You get a sale, you reg the name..... how much do you think the market would price this service at?
I have voted at $249.00 as I think it's high enough to be worth the effort but low enough to provide 'fair value'
This isn't an exercise in valuing domains per se (although it must by default) but in valuing the service (including the domain).... nett of any add-ons you might get such as hosting / web design etc..

I'm sorry if I didn't word the question very well.... hope that clears it up?

Regards

Gary

 

[hawkeye]

I don't see how one can put/say what a 'fair value' is. It really is whatever you the seller can live with. There are domainers here happy selling their names for $20 profits, and some that are happy selling for $300 profit, and those that feel $XXXX should be the profit. If you feel your time and efforts to do this is worth $240 than that is great. But a sale that may take one hour compared to a sale that may take 4+ weeks, is still only $240 profit, though it fell into 'your' fair value frame. So in a sense, what is your time and research efforts worth to you?? And to finalize that sale, and find out that the buyer would have paid more no questions asked, would be a lost opportunity for you, and a godsend for them. It boils down to what you can live with for a profit for your investments and efforts IMO.

 

[-REECE-]

I don't see how one can put/say what a 'fair value' is. It really is whatever you the seller can live with. There are domainers here happy selling their names for $20 profits, and some that are happy selling for $300 profit, and those that feel $XXXX should be the profit. If you feel your time and efforts to do this is worth $240 than that is great. But a sale that may take one hour compared to a sale that may take 4+ weeks, is still only $240 profit, though it fell into 'your' fair value frame. So in a sense, what is your time and research efforts worth to you?? And to finalize that sale, and find out that the buyer would have paid more no questions asked, would be a lost opportunity for you, and a godsend for them. It boils down to what you can live with for a profit for your investments and efforts IMO.

Exactly. I personally prefer to let people contact me. I have way, way too many names to ever contemplate sending emails to all potential buyers (actually, my ISP would probably disable me for spamming if I tried!). If you decide to do all this time consuming work, make sure you compare it to what you could make in the real world.. A $49 flip in 1 hour is more profitable for me than a $240 sale requiring 10 hours worth of phone calls, negotiations, counter-offers, etc. If I really want that extra $191, I'll put in an extra 10 hours at work and be even further ahead.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

Ok, good points... but if I said to you that I ran an operation that provided domain names (including maybe alternatives / slogans etc..) & charged $249.00 for the service would you consider that I was offering 'fair value' or that I was a rip-off merchant?

Gary

 

[hawkeye]

BuyDomains.com sells names from $488 on up. Are they selling at 'fair value' or are they a rip-off merchant?? It's all subjective to ones opinions on fair and not fair. Trust me, if people don't like your prices - they won't buy, if they do - they will, no matter the product.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

There must be some commonality here? There will always be those that will pay10x the price & those who want everything for nothing... I'm looking at the middle ground, the same approach that could be levied at anything we buy.... from a big mac to a minute on a mobile phone.... what is the 'average' / mean price that the market deems fair & reasonable?
As a domainer you buy (1st reg) domains at a few dollars & wish you could get them cheaper but this is the broad spectrum of the aftermarket I'm talking about....

Does anyone here have any experience of selling domains to end users at all (on a commercial basis)?

You were right to make the assumption that for this exercise the domains are worthless to anyone outside of a handful of businesses... it's the commercial value of the 'service' that I'm interested in.... the whole package as it were and not just the value of the $10 domain name

Sure, this could be different around the world (it's bound to be) but I reckon the UK market would pay £75.00 to £249.00 without too much ado (i.e. the $149.00 to $499.00 range) but all your views are taken on board....

Gary

 

[hawkeye]

Gary you're looking for an answer where there is none. I feel the reason you're not getting the replies you're looking for, is in your moniker. There is no standard right or wrong pricing for what you are asking. Domains are a new commodity, and there is nothing to set a standard for comparable or reasonable prices. It's not like selling realestate on Manahatten island to compare related pricings with. Right now, domains sell for what some one feels they can afford, or that they will benefit from, or just plain want to pay for them! Computer.com just sold for $2.2 mil., should the seller have set a higher reserve, or a lower reserve?? Is it worth it or not? Will the buyer get their monies worth?? Who knows!! If more companies had shown up for the auction it may have gone higher. If less interested parties had shown up, it may have gone for less. If the reserve had been $2 mil., then 50 interested parties bidding who were not willing to go over that price, wouldn't have made a difference. If the seller just wanted to sell it for what he/she could get, they could have set their reserve at $200K, and let the cards fall where they would of.

If you want to sell your service at $249 a name, then do it. If you want to sell it for $1000 each, then do that! No one can tell you what others will pay for something that there is no measureable way to gauge it on. Remember one thing though, - cheaper priced items always sell faster than the expensive ones.

 

[skeitel]

Hawkeye is right imho. Domains interact in a totally liquid market. There is no fixed reference point. This is more like gambling or a poker game than the stock market or any other semi-predictable market.
Besides, there are lots of external factors influencing the price of domains in almost real time (google search advances, gphone OS?, general market trends, , .mobi mltd marketing campaigns, etc...and ultimately but most importantly the notion of the value of domains getting finally mainstream)
The value of your domains is a mixture of multiples over time (the conversion rate of traffic through that name either through ads, partnerships, lead generation...e.g.CTR = $), potential audience (numbers and social strata to which users belong to), number of potential buyers of your name competing for that niche, purchasing power of these potential buyers, availability and pricing of similar names that they can take if they don't take yours, and the most important factor, the idea in your buyers mind that "he has to have" your name.

There is absolutely no way today to evaluate objectively the value of domain names.

Not even auction figures are a reliable indicator -if you are talking mainstream buyers- because those are so far 90% between domainers themselves.

You'll hear in forums like these a lot of nonsense and people talking as if they know what they are talking about and giving you numbers and possible valuations for names.
Just ignore them.

Go back to business and economic basics 101, and then apply that knowledge, your experience and rational thinking to domains. That's the closest you can get to understand all of this. The rest is cheap talk!

PS/ Domains are like women. Nice thing to "have", incredibly valuable if you get the top ones, but don't ever expect to understand them completely. (when you thought you figured them out, they surprise you again) Also like with women, if you get the bad ones, they'll stick to you since nobody else wants them.
The good thing about domains is that, unlike women, if you decide to drop them, they don't keep half of everything...

 

[mejcdj]

Hi Reece

I have read your post & you make some valid points about the business in general but I may have asked the wrong question or at least asked in the wrong way....

What I was trying to value was how much the service is worth where you present the end user with the opportunity to buy their own company name as a .mobi (given the criteria that I gave).
I'm assuming that there is NO INTRINSIC value in the domain other than being for a handful of businesses as their trading name. I'm also assuming that the value is fixed for all sales (of that nature)
So you would come up with a fair value on the service that you are providing (as part of that sale)....
Forget your portfolio for a moment & picture yourself in the office, making your pitch by phone for example.... with your pc online ready to secure a name that you haven't even bought yet..
You get a sale, you reg the name..... how much do you think the market would price this service at?
I have voted at $249.00 as I think it's high enough to be worth the effort but low enough to provide 'fair value'
This isn't an exercise in valuing domains per se (although it must by default) but in valuing the service (including the domain).... nett of any add-ons you might get such as hosting / web design etc..

I'm sorry if I didn't word the question very well.... hope that clears it up?

Regards

Gary

OK. I think I understand what your question is.. please correct me if I am wrong.

You want to start a business with services that will secure a name for other businesses not online yet.

You call a business.. lets say "franks weenie barn".. and you pitch the whole web/mobile web idea to him. He says, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. As you are on the phone with him, you have your registrar open.. and you quicky register franksweeniebarn.mobi. Then you invoice him for $249 and transfer the name to him with a few referrals for site development. Is that what you mean?

If that is the service, then yes, $249 is fair IMO

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

By the miracle of Percy Verance the boys gone & done it!

OK. I think I understand what your question is.. please correct me if I am wrong.

You want to start a business with services that will secure a name for other businesses not online yet.

You call a business.. lets say "franks weenie barn".. and you pitch the whole web/mobile web idea to him. He says, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. As you are on the phone with him, you have your registrar open.. and you quicky register franksweeniebarn.mobi. Then you invoice him for $249 and transfer the name to him with a few referrals for site development. Is that what you mean?

If that is the service, then yes, $249 is fair IMO

Thank you... That indeed WAS THE question!!!! :lol:

So, $249.00 is ok... So, now the question is better defined, does anyone think $249.00 is the wrong price?

I have given it some thought (no honest, I have!) & I'm the kind of guy who helps old ladies across the road & has a bit of a conscience about making excessive profits on anything I do so I first thought that maybe $249 (or the UK equivalent) was too much but then I got to thinking that the service element (the value) of the service / the domain could actually be quite valuable to the company - especially if having a .mobi site would be appropriate for their business (maybe not the local funeral parlour etc..) but hair dressers, fast food, shops of almost any kind (well, except funeral parlours , mechanics, the list goes on..... so I figured that $249 would be a figure that companies would feel comfortable paying...
If the business is bigger (20+ employees say) then maybe you could pitch in at more but the bigger the company, the more likely they are to have a web guy either in-house or on contract so sales may tail off?

I certainly think this is a subject worth tackling because we need tens of 1,000's (in fact millions) of end users out there who currently don't know about .mobi... it's not going to take off unless we get businesses on board using .mobi to promote their businesses!!

Regards

Gary

(& thank you for your input!)

 

[mejcdj]

By the miracle of Percy Verance the boys gone & done it!




Thank you... That indeed WAS THE question!!!! :lol:

So, $249.00 is ok... So, now the question is better defined, does anyone think $249.00 is the wrong price?

I have given it some thought (no honest, I have!) & I'm the kind of guy who helps old ladies across the road & has a bit of a conscience about making excessive profits on anything I do so I first thought that maybe $249 (or the UK equivalent) was too much but then I got to thinking that the service element (the value) of the service / the domain could actually be quite valuable to the company - especially if having a .mobi site would be appropriate for their business (maybe not the local funeral parlour etc..) but hair dressers, fast food, shops of almost any kind (well, except funeral parlours , mechanics, the list goes on..... so I figured that $249 would be a figure that companies would feel comfortable paying...
If the business is bigger (20+ employees say) then maybe you could pitch in at more but the bigger the company, the more likely they are to have a web guy either in-house or on contract so sales may tail off?

I certainly think this is a subject worth tackling because we need tens of 1,000's (in fact millions) of end users out there who currently don't know about .mobi... it's not going to take off unless we get businesses on board using .mobi to promote their businesses!!

Regards

Gary

(& thank you for your input!)

Where is my cookie? :?

Honestly, I think its definately a business worth trying. I also think a flat $249 for any size business would be best. Its less confusing for you and your eclientele.

This idea would aslo create major awarness for .mobi. No inventory, no time constraints, work at your own pace, name is secure via registration until payment is received, you are selling something you are familiar with and have knowledge about, it helps the business owner.. I might be interested in doing something like this myself.

Lets face it, millions of business owners have yet to discover the value of an online presence. I would bet that millions have no idea how to even register a name. This will take the pressure and 'fear' off them to get online. We know our stuff when it comes to domains, but to many.. 'it's all greek.'

Networking possible with hosting services, developers, advertisers, graphic designers. I really like it.

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

And the great thing about it, it's risk free & we can share ideas all day without any risk of diluting the market.... IMO the domain industry is too focused on selling to domainers & too confusing for many small businesses to get involved without getting really confused...

Well, maybe we shouldn't tell too many people eh?

Well, that is funny... I just browsed the forum & found this thread... it certainly makes you think doesn't it!?


http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/384820-end-user-domain-awareness.html

 

[skeitel]

Mej's comments are good. However, it all depends how much your time is worth. For me, $249 would be too low since too many small business owners are too far from the hot decision making state. You should start with the basics, and take a lot of "I'll call you back"
No to be a naysayer here, and your initiative is very good, I just suggest you to weight well your priorities. The time you are doing this you are not developing, and someone else in your niches may be...

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

Hi Skeitel

I hear what you're saying but I'm not a developer (at least not yet) so I am just looking at avenues for taking an income from this business whilst waiting for any longer term gains... I wouldn't be interested in doing it as a full time job but I'd be happy enough to employ someone to do it for me on a salary... hence I was interested to hear what prices people started to chuck into the mix so I could cost the exercise out... seems viable at a first glance as I have pretty much everything apart from the employee in place!

So I may give it a try in a month or 2......

Regards


Gary

 

[newdomainer.mobi]

I'm off on me hols for a week so I'll give this one last bump!

Gary

 

[quasar1138]

Has anyone here tried B2B marketing of domains (i.e. going straight to an end user with a domain & not just advertising on-line)

In addition, this approach would lead to hosting opportunities, web design etc.. (commission sales) so all in all, a great little package..

Input greatly appreciated & I'm sure the results will be useful to all of us.

Many thanks

Gary

Gary, there has been some new companies to appear that focus on marketing mobile domains names to startup and existing businesses. Some of these marketers have a inventory of mobile domain names while others have focused on helping the businesses or small companies acquire and or register a mobile domain name.

A Small Suggestion: Look at your inventory of domains names, find a marketing or public relations firm, and partner with that firm. You may have the inventory but you do not the customers. A marketing firm and or public relations firm will. At least that way, you will have a mechanism to forming a business to business matching for your domains.

As far as pricing, I would just match your dotmobi domain inventory with the market demand and conditions. Good DotMobi domain names are going for reasonable prices. There are some names that are going in the stratosphere but for the most part a small business or company can get a good DotMobi domain name at a reasonable price.

I hope that helps you dude.

 

[Rochemontagne]

I guess a fair value can be determined when someone offers you a certain amount for a domain name and you accept.