.Pro & Registry.pro

[akcampbell]

Have any .pro domain owners had any contact with either Registry.pro or ICANN with a view to removing the registration restrictions on .pro and cutting the registration fee?

Until Registry.pro does both of these things, it's clear the extension won't go anywhere. .pro domain owners are key stakeholders in the extension and should bring some pressure to bear to encourage change.

Since Encirca launched their proxy service in March 2005, very little progress has been made developing the .pro extension. At the end of 2005, there were 6,430 .pros registered, this fell to 4,906 by the end of 2006, rising slightly recently to 5,271 at the end of June 2007.

The economics at work are pretty simple, the market has decided that only 5,000 .keywords are worth registering for $99. Premium keywords get held, but second tier keywords get registered, dropped and reregistered after some time on the shelf.

When it comes to getting sites developed as you intend, you have to let the extension do the talking, you can't force people to do it by imposing restrictions like Registry.pro have.

Restrictions cause confusion and make registration risky, this in turn causes lack of take up, lack of take up reduces domain value and mindset penetration, and lack of mindset penetration means there isn't any point developing because people won't take your site seriously or remember it. Why can't Registry.pro see this simple dymanic?

Between Feb 2005 and present Registry.pro have issued 1 Press Release, to inform the market that they have appointed a new President. In the same time period Afilias issued 25. Afilias and .info had a 2 year start on .pro and Registry.pro but they have just reached 5m registration, 1000 times more than .pro. That performance was achieved with the polar opposite strategy to Registry.pro, no restrictions and low cost registration.

If Registry.pro continue to strangle their golden goose with restrictions and $99 reg fees .pro will never make any impact as an alternative extension. The wider the gap other alternative extensions like .info and .mobi open up the harder it will get to turn things around.

I propose that Registry.pro makes the following changes;

1) Remove all restrictions on second level .pro registration.
2) Cut registration fees to $10.

 

[dotprofan]

I recently received this email from the President of Encirca informing me that the ICANN contract will be up for renegotiation in May of 2009.

Hi Bob,

I have an answer for you regarding the registry contract. The registry says that when Hostway acquired it from register.com, the 5 year term was reset.

The acquisition ocurred in May, 2004. So, that makes the new expiration date: May, 2009.

best regards,

Tom

I totally agree with your proposals, I think there is no other way to go with this extension except removing the restrictions and lowering the registration fee. Once this happens, watch .pro really take off.

 

[DomainMayhem.com]

I recently received this email from the President of Encirca informing me that the ICANN contract will be up for renegotiation in May of 2009.



I totally agree with your proposals, I think there is no other way to go with this extension except removing the restrictions and lowering the registration fee. Once this happens, watch .pro really take off.

I agree. dotPro is a great extension, with a TON of potential, but it's gonna take the above mentioned provisions for that to happen. So, by 2009, make sure you have the keyword/s that you want domainers!

 

[sky]

Are you sure you're reading those 3-month delayed monthly registrar reports correctly? Are you sure they indicate the current total # of registered names and not the monthly registration?

I don't know if you saw my response in our discussion earlier, but I noticed a couple of recent 1 momth reports showed 4-5K registered names. Take that out over the 3 years .pro's have been publically available and that's 180K names (if 5K is an average). Google of "site:.pro" shows 177K hits. So allowing for some slop, isn't it possible that more sites are registered than just 5K?

I'm new to this, so I don't know.

 

[seeker]

I would be very surprised if only 5000-6000 .pro domains are registered.

sky, yes, I always use site:.extension to see how many sites have been indexed, and it shows around that many for .pro (dont forget that includes 2nd and 2rd level domains)

As for the restrictions and the price.
Its really a dilema. It is keeping the extension from taken off, yet it is allowing it to be 'above' others by the price and restrictions.
It almost gives it an air of grandeur.
no spammmer is going to get a .pro domain.
and if someone is going to buy one, the chances are more than likely they will do something professional with it (end users).
Its a tought one. I see pros and cons to the status quo as well as to the proposed changes mentioned above.

 

[AdoptableDomains]

Some big sales have happened, but I personally wouldn't invest in a name I was unsure of the long term outcome. names held against the registry policy through Encirca's work-around of proxy ownership may or may not be grandfathered.

The $49 promo was big, but the $99 renewals lead to many drops. There's a huge difference in price when you start talking about holding numerous domains.

At some point there will be a trade-off of keeping the original intent or making money on the open market. I don't think the original intent has gotten many real takers, so I foresee it going mainstream in the future. The question will be how they handle the current Encirca holders that are non-complaint with the contract.

I think the whole sTLD and restriced gTLD concept has pretty much been a bust. This includes .museum, .coop, .aero, .pro, .travel, and .jobs. Has anyone really moved from com/net/org to these TLD's? No, some have them parked, but still maintain the gTLD version they had before getting the sTLD. At some point the decision will be made to go mainstream or die.

 

[akcampbell]

Unfortunately, things are that bad. You can prove it to yourself by working back through the report months for Note 13 - Geographical Distribution of .Pros.

http://www.icann.org/tlds/monthly-reports/pro/registrypro-200706.pdf

You'll find the non-US registered domain numbers never changes. The US number changes because that's where Encirca is based and they have done pretty much all the registrations since March 2005.

Total .pros registered peaked in May 2005, a couple of months after Encirca introduced their proxy registration service, at about 6,200. It's been edging down since.

 

[AdoptableDomains]

http://www.icann.org/tlds/monthly-reports/pro/registrypro-200706.pdf

Interesting document! Some things that surprised me:

1. The registry has reserved domains AND reserved subdomains. (.ie host.pro and host.*.pro). Even owning a second level domain, it appears some (a lot) subdomains are off limits.

2. There are several registars that are .pro certified and have zero .pro domains (Verisign and domainsite each have zero).

CustomerId Number of Domains
007names 38
123registration 2
aaaq 8
alldomains 0
allindomains 31
bulkregister 21
csc_corporate 3
domainpeople 361
domainsite 0
encirca 3346
hangang 0
idr 0
markmonitor 167
name 12
netnames 71
psi-usa 3
register.com 298
secura 4
verisign 0

3. AT first glance it seems outside the US, there are not even many interested in this TLD. particularly when you get past English speaking countries (US,CA,GB,UK) However, this can be partially skewed by the fact that ALL Encirca names are technically owned by Encirca, not the real person who registered it through them using them as the proxy owner. Therefore, I assume "real" registrants according to ICANN contract rules are probably only in the hundreds if even that high.

Country Count Percentage of Total
US 5081 96.395
CA 67 1.271
GB 34 0.645
CH 25 0.474
JP 14 0.266
DE 9 0.171
FR 8 0.152
UK 7 0.133
SG 5 0.095
NL 4 0.076
AG 4 0.076
ES 3 0.057
SV 2 0.038
BE 2 0.038
VC 1 0.019
TW 1 0.019
IL 1 0.019
HU 1 0.019
AU 1 0.019
Total 5271 100

4. Can a registry with < 6000 names survive very long? If the registry itself gets $49 per name per year, that's an annual gross income of < $300k to cover infrastructure, salaries, taxes, promotion, rent, network bandwidth, etc.

 

[sky]

4. Can a registry with < 6000 names survive very long? If the registry itself gets $49 per name per year, that's an annual gross income of < $300k to cover infrastructure, salaries, taxes, promotion, rent, network bandwidth, etc.[/QUOTE]

5000 renewing domains, $5,000,000/yr? That's some bread. Maybe at the next contract renewal in '09 they'll change the model to make it more profitable. What I wonder is why it isn't being promoted more.

I think one of the big problems is that barely anyone knows that they can even *register* a generic .pro domain anywhere. The rules are confusing and most of the registrars only discuss the $350 3rd level domain as a pre-requisite to buy the $125 (at most places) 2nd level domain. Most people don't want to jump through hoops just to spend $500 for a .pro domain.

If more people knew they could score some primo .pro names for $100 at EnCirca, I think they'd be all over it. So the key is to get the word out, and I'm going to start trying to do that. There could very well be a gold rush, or at least some incentive for them to do some work to lower the prices or promote them or change the restrictions. Either way, we have about 1.5 years until renewal time, and I doubt anyone is going to just throw away $5 Million in registration money. Someone's going to take that and see the potential and do something smart with it.

Plus there are going to be 5000 very angry businesses if they try pulling that prime Internet real estate out from under them, and perhaps some lawsuits even.

 

[akcampbell]

Sky, you've miscalculated the registry's income, it's probably about $300k as Mark says, maybe a bit higher.

The current business model clearly doesn't work so the only alternative is to open it up, do a deal with a big registrar like Godaddy to promote it and get 1m registrations at $15. Godaddy gets $5m recurring income, the new registry gets $10m per annum.

Mark the registry's list of domains is interesting. If you look at the June 2004 report they started off with just 3 and built up their collection over time. They registry have some very odd keywords, e.g Emma.pro and Example.pro but then they also hold some of the most valuable like Doctor.pro, Dentist.pro, Accountant.pro, Engineer.pro and Lawyer.pro.

Since med.pro, eng.pro and law.pro are there if Doctors, Engineers, and Lawyers want to reg a .pro I don't understand the rational for doing this. These are the sort of domains you want changing hands for large sums and getting developed to get people talking about the extension.

 

[seeker]

I can follow the logic , and it does make sense.
However, isnt one of .pro's appeal the fact it isnt cheap and that it attracts a certain type of "customers" (end users)?
Does this not give it a greater status?
it sort of distance itself from the rest, giving it a greater 'power' over the other gTLDs.
Like .ORG used to be in the 90s.
I am not saying I agree with the status quo, but just wondering...
Doesn't this give the .pro sTLD an extra appeal?

 

[AdoptableDomains]

5000 renewing domains, $5,000,000/yr? That's some bread. Maybe at the next contract renewal in '09 they'll change the model to make it more profitable. What I wonder is why it isn't being promoted more.

See the $49 link in my post and you'll see what the registry itself gets. It's $49 per "second level redirect" which I think is what encirca is primarily selling. I would bet about 95%+ fall under this category.

$49 x 5000 = $245,000.

They do get some $6 registrations for third level domains, and maybe a few $1000 and $2500 fees for defensive registrations that cover a 4 year term. I don't think they get many of those by the numbers posted though, and I would speculate they might have 50-200 at most. I'll bet most of those won't even renew with the dismal acceptance of .pro to this point when the initial 4 years is up.

It isn't being promoted more, because there probably isn't any money left for promotion after expenses! They haven't posted a press release since February 2005 http://www.registry.pro/pressroom.htm

I can follow the logic , and it does make sense.
However, isnt one of .pro's appeal the fact it isnt cheap and that it attracts a certain type of "customers" (end users)?
Does this not give it a greater status?
it sort of distance itself from the rest, giving it a greater 'power' over the other gTLDs.
Like .ORG used to be in the 90s.
I am not saying I agree with the status quo, but just wondering...
Doesn't this give the .pro sTLD an extra appeal?

I deal with engineers in my business all the time, and have never seen one use a name.eng.pro email or web address. They all have .com addresses. True, they have the money for something exclusive. This also means they can afford to buy the .com on the aftermarket that they want.

search http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl:+.eng.pro&hl=en&start=0&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl:+.med.pro&hl=en&start=0&sa=N
http://www.google.com/search?q=allinurl:+.law.pro&hl=en&start=0&sa=N

You'll see very few using ???.pro domains even at the third level.

 

[akcampbell]

Seeker, if a $99 reg fee gives .pro extra appeal, how come only 5,271 are registered? If the $99 entry fee leads to development, why are only about 10-15 of the 5,271 .pros developed?

Ringtones.mobi just sold for $145,000, I imagine whoever bought it plans to develop it and having spent that much you'd imagine they will do a worthy job. The .mobi registry didn't force that outcome, they just promoted the extension and let market forces do the rest.

The knock-on effect of this sale will be more people regging and developing .mobi. Another 100 ringtone .mobi keyword variations will get registered on the back of the sale providing more cash for the registry to spend on promotion. Domain growth is a snowball effect, Registry.pro don't seem to understand that dynamic.

.Pro domain registrants should band together and lobby Registry.pro and ICANN to open up the extension and cut registration fees. Those with most to gain should make the biggest effort. MJS, I would interested to know your views on this.

Mark, Registry.pro don't need cash to promote .pro. They could go to Godaddy or any big registrar and cut them a deal to promote .pro on their main domain menu. Registrations would rocket.

 

[seeker]

AN,
so many engineers dont know about .pro
I am all for a more 'offensive' attitude toward this superb extension.
Anyone have any ideas on what to do next?

 

[Kate]

...
3. AT first glance it seems outside the US, there are not even many interested in this TLD. particularly when you get past English speaking countries (US,CA,GB,UK) However, this can be partially skewed by the fact that ALL Encirca names are technically owned by Encirca, not the real person who registered it through them using them as the proxy owner. Therefore, I assume "real" registrants according to ICANN contract rules are probably only in the hundreds if even that high.

The truth is that the TLD is technically open to only 4 countries.
The only way around this would be the Encirca loophole, which is even less well-known than the extension itself :td:
With such a distribution scheme it can hardly be popular...

4. Who can register a .Pro domain name?
At this time, only members of the medical, legal, accounting and engineering professions, licensed in the United States, Canada, Germany and the United Kingdom, are eligible to register .Pro domains.

http://nic.pro/support_faq.htm

TBH even without the restrictions it's another contender TLD that is not good for speculation :imho:

 

[sky]

AN,
so many engineers dont know about .pro
I am all for a more 'offensive' attitude toward this superb extension.
Anyone have any ideas on what to do next?

Blog about it, or tell people about it on the engineering forums.
Tell people about it at work. I'm going to put mine on my business cards.
Send out e-mail using one or more of your pro domains. Do something proactive. At some point a few of us could help create a buzz.

BTW: Apologies for my bad math above, where I said 5000 @ $100 was $5 million. It's only $1/2 million. But hey, I was only off by an order of magnitutde.

 

[cdboard]

1. The registry has reserved domains AND reserved subdomains. (.ie host.pro and host.*.pro). Even owning a second level domain, it appears some (a lot) subdomains are off limits.

Those may be reserved only on the specialized 3rd level domains (e.g., host.law.pro), not a restriction on all .pro's.

 

[AdoptableDomains]

Blog about it, or tell people about it on the engineering forums.
Tell people about it at work. I'm going to put mine on my business cards.
Send out e-mail using one or more of your pro domains. Do something proactive. At some point a few of us could help create a buzz.

Unless something changes, I don't think blogging will help. Most engineers already have a .com website, usually branded with their name. Technically, an engineer can't even register a second level domain IN THEIR NAME unless they are in two professions and have a third level domain in the two professions $199 each, plus $99 for the second level. Most engineers aren't going to buy a "forwarding domain" for $99 that isn't even in their name. The math is easy.

A. Get a TM or branded .com name < $20 per year renewal at most any registrar.

B. Get a name.eng.pro and a name.law.pro at $200 each in order to get a second level name.pro domain at $99 each for a total of almost $500 a year just for renewals at a few mostly obscure registrars with higher than normal prices.

Engineers, lawyers, Doctors, and CPA's didn't get to where they are by being dumb (okay, well most didn't ). Most couldn't care less about the TLD and just hire a web design firm to make them a website. What would those people choose? ... Dot-Com.

For .pro to be successful I think it will take a full gutting of the current setup. The dual professions rules to get a "resolving" second level domain is about the stupidest rule ever come up with in the domain industry. I don't see anything wrong with requiring credentials to get the .pro, However, that would play havoc with the current encirca proxy registrations and limit the use and promotion by the aftermarket. I really don't see ICANN or registrypro really wanting to defend or protect encirca or its customers if the rules changed on contract renewal. They would be better to offend encirca, let them deal with their own customer issues, and get godaddy, enom, moniker, and the other big boys sell their TLD.

...but that's just my opinion.

Those may be reserved only on the specialized 3rd level domains (e.g., host.law.pro), not a restriction on all .pro's.

Okay, that's not real clear from the document. that does make more sense.

 

[sky]

Unless something changes, I don't think blogging will help. Most engineers already have a .com website, usually branded with their name. Technically, an engineer can't even register a second level domain IN THEIR NAME unless they are in two professions and have a third level domain in the two professions $199 each, plus $99 for the second level. Most engineers aren't going to buy a "forwarding domain" for $99 that isn't even in their name. The math is easy.

That's until EnCirca came along. Were it not for them, I wouldn't be doing this.

A. Get a TM or branded .com name < $20 per year renewal at most any registrar.

I don't agree that engineers don't have egos. Maybe not so much about their names, although I don't think we can say for sure, but to have a business with a cool name with .pro would be appealing. .pro is cool, I just don't think people know where they can score one for $100. When people figure that out, it could change things.

B. Get a name.eng.pro and a name.law.pro at $200 each in order to get a second level name.pro domain at $99 each for a total of almost $500 a year just for renewals at a few mostly obscure registrars with higher than normal prices.

Engineers, lawyers, Doctors, and CPA's didn't get to where they are by being dumb (okay, well most didn't ). Most couldn't care less about the TLD and just hire a web design firm to make them a website. What would those people choose? ... Dot-Com.

That's why I would point them to EnCirca.

For .pro to be successful I think it will take a full gutting of the current setup. The dual professions rules to get a "resolving" second level domain is about the stupidest rule ever come up with in the domain industry. I don't see anything wrong with requiring credentials to get the .pro, However, that would play havoc with the current encirca proxy registrations and limit the use and promotion by the aftermarket.

Can you be specific and clarify your concern here? It sounds as foreboding as it is vague.

I really don't see ICANN or registrypro really wanting to defend or protect encirca or its customers if the rules changed on contract renewal. They would be better to offend encirca, let them deal with their own customer issues, and get godaddy, enom, moniker, and the other big boys sell their TLD.

There could be lawsuits, especially given the gravity, stature and high cost already associated with the name. What is your 'big shake-up' theory about what ICANN might do to Encirca and it's 3500+ customers?