Possible PHP Coding Competition 2 - Discussion

[Bucaneiro]

Why don't you guys start another contest?

Split thread - So users don't confuse Competitions and Discussions - Hitch

 

[Hitch]

Depends on the interest.
We'll have to see who wants to enter, and who will do for definite.

Maybe make something smaller, i think the last one was abit daunting for many.

 

[Matthew.]

I could probably manage an entry this time depending on what time I get

 

[Eric]

I could probably get a couple sponsors to provide prizes for the next contest if we have one. Hitch, me & you should get up with RJ and see about coming up with something

 

[Xyzer]

If there was another, as I am not full with work, I would definately be itnerested in entering. :D

 

[Hitch]

I could probably get a couple sponsors to provide prizes for the next contest if we have one. Hitch, me & you should get up with RJ and see about coming up with something

Ok.

I'll get you in chat.
We will have to force users to enter this one. :talk:

 

[Peter]

I will most likely be able to enter and submit this time as I have spare time on my hands (recently been made redundant)

 

[chicker]

I might enter it really depends on the field and if it is something I would be interested in developing and my work load at the time currently I am quiet busy but it goes up and down

 

[Bucaneiro]

Count me on for anything you guys decide. :D

 

[cef]

Ok.

I'll get you in chat.
We will have to force users to enter this one. :talk:

If, compared to the last one, you keep the scope simpler and make the rules a little more logical I think more people will participate.

 

[Hitch]

make the rules a little more logical

Care to elaborate? :tu:

Any comments and criticism given will only make the second Competition better!

 

[cheerio]

I'll try to participate

 

[Xyzer]

I think that this time next week would be idea becuase alot of us are on our school holidays which means we have time in the day to do it. I am more than interested in doing.. so :D

 

[cef]

Care to elaborate? :tu:

Any comments and criticism given will only make the second Competition better!

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

 

[Eric]

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

I'll agree with that. Why re-invent the wheel on some things?

 

[snareklutz]

Some suggestions:
1. All entries are to be licensed as a free software (www.fsf.org) license of the developer's choice.
2. Have a panel of judges voting on different parts of the code: eg, features, aethetics, coding practices, extent of innovation, etc.
3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand.
4. Create a list of preapproved libraries.

 

[Xyzer]

Some suggestions:
1. All entries are to be licensed as a free software (www.fsf.org) license of the developer's choice.
2. Have a panel of judges voting on different parts of the code: eg, features, aethetics, coding practices, extent of innovation, etc.
3. Use subversion or cvs to track development over a set period of time (with a set number of minimum updates). This prevents people from coding beforehand.
4. Create a list of preapproved libraries.

I don't agree with number 3... It would just take too long... It's time most people don't have!

 

[Hitch]

One thing I recall off the top of my head was not being able to use any snippets or 3rd-party code. Part of being a good programmer is knowing when to buy instead of build, and then knowing how to integrate what you've bought.

Sure, if someone submits a project which is mostly 3rd-party code stitched together I'd say that doesn't count, although in the real world it certainly would.

But appropriate and judicial use of 3rd-party assister classes (PageRank checker, RSS feed parser, SMTP mailer for a contact form, an ajax class for web 2.0 stuff) lets the participant focus on creating a really good competition entry instead of wasting time on ancillary infrastructure.

Of course if the competition is to write an RSS parser or SMTP mailer or ajax class, well, then that's another story.

Suggest noted! Thanks.

Though, (this is my own opinion here, it won't affect the competition)
I think allowing things such as RSS Classes shouldn't be allowed.

It's not really a coding competition then, imo.
To me, coding means thinking of structures, architecture, methods and patterns.

Anyone could really use a Class, it takes hardly no work at all.
But building yourown is different, i would like to see how the user handles loads of the server, queries, security, XSS prevention etc.
That's coding.

Just my thoughts.
Adrian

 

[cef]

My own thoughts as well (and not meant snarkily)

It's not really a coding competition then, imo.
To me, coding means thinking of structures, architecture, methods and patterns.

In that case we have a problem of scope. Scope in terms of project scope, and scope in terms of implementation scope.

Because half of the above list is precisely about choosing the right items to bolt together into a whole, and parts of the other two apply at the site level as well as the module level.

But I don't mean to be a language-lawyer What you say is correct, it's just that it encompasses the strategic as well as the tactical, making it hard to determine what the scope of the competition should be.

But building your own is different, i would like to see how the user handles loads of the server, queries, security, XSS prevention etc.
That's coding.

And that's what I get paid a lot of money per hour to do in the real world. I can't hold down two programming jobs at once. Is the competition prize a guaranteed contract paying top-dollar rates?

How "good" does something have to be for this good-natured competition? And can something be "too" good? This is why sports have different divisions (amateur, pro-am, pro, etc.)

So, even ignoring the valid (and not yet discussed here) recommendations of snareklutz RE licensing, buy vs. build, category judges, etc., there still seems to be a problem of:

1. project scope (how big a project)
2. implementation scope ("real world-edness" of the code)
3. quality constraints (judging pro/pro-am/amateur code in one big vat)

To be honest, I don't know how to solve this problem. I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory formula, which is why I stay out of coding competitions.

 

[Eric]

So, anyone have ideas of what sort of contest we should have? IE: what script/project/etc - the last competition was a bug tracker.


Oh, and by the way, I've talked with the owner & author of PHP Designer; and he will be donating 3 licenses of PHP Designer 2007 Pro (worth €39/$53).