People trying to sell domains before buying?

[wormfood]

I was selling a domain here (fixed price) and wanted to receive payment through paypal. Someone told me they don't have paypal and wanted to use undeveloped. I didn't really mind and agreed..But thn they were rather pushy about getting the domain into their own undeveloped account, which can't happen until the transaction is complete. I happened to check their old posts and noticed that they do have listings here where they receive payment through paypal, so no paypal was a lie? Less than 24 hours after the transaction closed at undeveloped, they report the domain sold by "outbound" and through undeveloped.
the transaction at undeveloped started on Friday evening est and officially completed yesterday.
So I was suspicious that they had already emailed people and sold it before buying. It seems unlikely that someone would be so eager to get the domain and keep asking to get it into their undeveloped account if they hadn't already sold it.
have you ever found out that someone was doing this?

 

[Kate]

OK guys, if you're still not convinced that it is wrong, unethical (and even illegal) to 'broker' somebody else's domains without their knowledge and permission, let me know.

I will spam end users like crazy with your domain names in an attempt to make a buck at your expense, and then I will let you deal with the fallout such as: complaints to your registrar, webhost, possible UDRPs, various legal threats, and the angry posts made by spam recipients on public forums, tarnishing your reputation as a domain owner.

Don't be surprised if your domain ends up being suspended as a result of the spam campaign led on your behalf. GD will certainly do that. Example: https://www.namepros.com/threads/go...another-registrar-after-spam-complain.691252/
But you can try to convince them of your innocence.

 

[mr-x]

You guys are naive and uninformed if you don’t believe that this sort of thing has been going on since the dawn of civilization. And all the OP describes is outbound inquiries not necessarily a specific “listing.”

I get offered domains to broker almost daily. Before I decide to accept the listing I’m not allowed to make inquiries of my clients? How far is your feeling that “I don’t think it’s right” supposed to go?

Just because something is somewhat common doesn't mean it's ethical. If you represent yourself as the owner of something you don't own, you're a liar. If you can't close the deal, you're a fraud.

 

[Kate]

Another thing to consider is that even if your domain name is for sale at least passively, unauthorized 'brokering' of your domain can depreciate its value in the eyes of interested parties.

For example, some domainers like me don't do outbound, only act on inbound offers. Because if you contact the end users, then you lose the upper hand.
Imagine you are contacted out of the blue by an end user, you show reluctance to sell, and they tell you "but 'you' contacted us recently with a view to selling the domain".

Your bargaining position is now weakened because somebody not authorized by you expressed willingness (even eagerness) to sell your domain, thus undermining your ability to extract the very best price from a motivated end user.

We are talking about unique assets here, that's why the comparison with cars or dropshipping is not valid.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It is an interesting ethical question, that as the thread shows can be viewed in various ways. Here is my take on the issue (subject to change ).

• If the person selling before they had bought the domain name portrayed that they owned it then it is definitely wrong. Misrepresentation.
• If they represented themselves as someone that could probably obtain the domain name, and asked the final buyer if they would be interested in it at such and such price, that is probably ethical. That is they made clear that they do not currently own it and are not sure that they can get it.
• If the person who sold it before owning it did outbound to multiple parties that is unethical because it might well tarnish the chances of the person who really owns it selling. Imagine how you would feel if someone sent out a bunch of outbound queries on a name you own.
• Personally I would never try to sell a domain name I do not own. It is fraught with issues even under the best of circumstances imho.

Bob

Edit: I wrote the above assuming a situation where the name was promoted/sold prior to a purchase decision. Later posts suggest that might not be true in this case.

 

[Kate]

What if the owner is hit with UDRP only because you are frontselling their domain name without informing them? Damages? Is something wrong now?

This kind of stuff can happen. It can backfire.

I have an example in mind.
A few years ago, there was a LLL.com expiring on NJ. So a smart domainer decided frontrunning on it.
He contacted a few obvious end users before the auction was even over and before he was in possession of the asset, the idea obviously being to gauge interest from real world companies and see how high he could bid.
One of those end users didn't like it, a domainer trying to sell their TM acronym. NJ had to pull out the auction because of the legal threats from that end user.

So, selling a domain name without prior knowledge and authorization of its holder is not only unethical, it can lead to legal problems and depreciate the asset.

 

[xynames]

Well there’s nothing wrong per se with having something pre-sold before buying it if that’s what you’re complaining about.

 

[Hireinternet]

I saw domain listed for sale here on Friday - and searched in google found few companies related with this name . I bought domain from him and paid as/deal . After buying i started outbound and sold . Can anyone tell what is wrong ? Hold time 4-5 days . I did not took domain from him - i bought domain and paid amount he selling for - now he is claiming that i did outbound before buying i can do for good names and make more profit if i do .

 

[urlurl]

No i don't think its right at all, members spamming endusers with your name - could really tarnish your reputation and name.

You want to broker a name, you need to be upfront with the owner and get their permission first... period.

if i had found out someone was illegally brokering my names i would deny all sales to them and work at getting them banned

 

[urlurl]

Should i list my Neighbors car for sale without telling him?

 

[urlurl]

risky, lets say;

1. you pre sell a name xyz123example.com to a potential buyer for $300 (that you dont currently own).

2. you then go to buy the name you saw listed for $200 and find out it was an old listing on sedo (happens all the time) and is no longer available or they cant contact the owner...or the owner of the name now wants $1000 for his name

3. now you are stuck, you entered into a binding agreement with the buyer for $300 and now you cant deliver. So what are you going to do now?!?!?!?

i found this answer online, selling something you dont own and cant produce can get you into trouble.

...open yourself wide open to a lawsuit for fraud,

https://www.lawguru.com/legal-quest...law/sell-sells-refuse-refund-money-587454051/

 

[urlurl]

don't forget this could happen

1. domainer see's a name listed for sale (not his) that has potential and does an email blast to potential endusers.

2. One of those recipients turns out he knows the owner of the name (or is the owner of the name) but doesn't say anything to the domainer.

3. tells the domainer he really wants it and is willing to pay $xx,xxx bucks for.

4. Domainer get's excited and buys the name with a buyer already lined up

5. goes to sell it to the enduser.

6. enduser says no thank you... but thanks for buying my name... sucker!

 

[Beezy]

After 149 (+) positive transactions, i'm removing all of my names from here if this is an accepted practice.

 

[wormfood]

I didn't write complaints here
just observations.

I suppose people could be doing this with high value domains. If I owned a nice 4L.com where 4L+group.com, 4L+design.com, 4L.co.uk, whatever, and many others all have websites, then someone could come along and ask for my price..And then go and email or call all these companies asking for double that..And then if someone agrees to buy via escrow.com and I agree to sell, they set up a "brokered" transaction and get the money with no real risk.
But if nobody wants to buy at the sender's price (or significantly above mine), then my domain was just sent to all these potential buyers..who might be put off by it.

 

[BRANDERX]

I don't do it, it doesn't feel right, could result in unwanted scenarios, that said, it does happen & "technically" its not "wrong".

imo

 

[Tunababa8v]

This case is more like 'you dont value what you have until you lose it'. Seller trying to get rid @ $35 and buyer displayed a more astute instinct to find market for the domain. If I am being honest, I will say good work @Hireinternet

 

[h2ov]

Well there’s nothing wrong per se with having something pre-sold before buying it if that’s what you’re complaining about.

What if the owner is hit with UDRP only because you are frontselling their domain name without informing them? Damages? Is something wrong now?

 

[uglydork]

If you go through with the purchase as agreed who cares?

 

[wwwweb]

I was selling a domain here (fixed price) and wanted to receive payment through paypal. Someone told me they don't have paypal and wanted to use undeveloped. I didn't really mind and agreed..But thn they were rather pushy about getting the domain into their own undeveloped account, which can't happen until the transaction is complete. I happened to check their old posts and noticed that they do have listings here where they receive payment through paypal, so no paypal was a lie? Less than 24 hours after the transaction closed at undeveloped, they report the domain sold by "outbound" and through undeveloped.
the transaction at undeveloped started on Friday evening est and officially completed yesterday.
So I was suspicious that they had already emailed people and sold it before buying. It seems unlikely that someone would be so eager to get the domain and keep asking to get it into their undeveloped account if they hadn't already sold it.
have you ever found out that someone was doing this?

medigroup.org?

Well the issue is if they were playing with this person's goodwill, they might have caused a UDRP, and maybe they got an answer before they committed to the purchase.

It is a very fine line, and I don't think anyone should sell a name unless it is in their account, or in the account of a rep that they have hired, or have permission thru a broker agreement.

 

[sircc]

If he's a member here, there is no reason not to say who he is. I'd like to know for sure.

 

[mr-x]

Well there’s nothing wrong per se with having something pre-sold before buying it if that’s what you’re complaining about.

Risky for the front-runner and deceptive to buyer.

 

[Hireinternet]

Lol - i did not even know that someone created this useless thread -

I bought domain on friday and sold today . What is wrong ?

I can feel your pain But there is nothing wrong we are buying domains for selling purpose .

Anyway - i am buyer and seller .

 

[wwwweb]

To me, the buyer pre-selling a domain runs a real risk of losing the deal completely. I have heard of situations where an end-buyer went around the middleman straight to the current owner.

Personally, I wouldn't care as long as I got my money for my domain.

The issue is many good domains, the easy target is trademark owners, and simply sending a stupid email opens up a lot of liability.

 

[domaineed]

Appears that all is fair in love and war . JK. Here's caution from a buyer @MapleDots

https://www.namepros.com/threads/caution-to-members-people-selling-domains-they-dont-own.1088600/

 

[mr-x]

Happens. Don't be shy, name names

I was selling a domain here (fixed price) and wanted to receive payment through paypal. Someone told me they don't have paypal and wanted to use undeveloped. I didn't really mind and agreed..But thn they were rather pushy about getting the domain into their own undeveloped account, which can't happen until the transaction is complete. I happened to check their old posts and noticed that they do have listings here where they receive payment through paypal, so no paypal was a lie? Less than 24 hours after the transaction closed at undeveloped, they report the domain sold by "outbound" and through undeveloped.
the transaction at undeveloped started on Friday evening est and officially completed yesterday.
So I was suspicious that they had already emailed people and sold it before buying. It seems unlikely that someone would be so eager to get the domain and keep asking to get it into their undeveloped account if they hadn't already sold it.
have you ever found out that someone was doing this?