Not cool.

[Sasan]

Was browsing Flippa last night and came across a domain I liked. Hit the BIN button and started an Escrow.com transaction.

Woke up this morning to a message from the seller:

Googled his name only to find out that he’s a domainer, runs a website for domainers, has been a speaker at NamesCon, etc. Basically: should know better.

I get it. Sometimes you list a domain and forget to update its price. It’s happened to me. But that’s on the seller, not the buyer. And in these cases, I’ve always honoured the transaction without question and quietly given myself a talking-to after.

It would also be another thing if he had let the domain expire or no longer owned it — but he does.

Honest mistake or not, responses like this really paint our industry in a negative light. In this case, I hit BIN – that’s pretty cut and dry. But also, if you’re going to negotiate with someone (as a buyer or a seller), keep your word. If we want the industry to be respected in the mainstream, it’s our responsibility to make that happen.

Anyway, getting off my soapbox now. This was my reply:

Haven’t heard anything back yet but have no qualms about naming or shaming if the seller doesn’t follow through with this transaction.

 

[Windoms]

Imagine you contact someone privately, you get a bargain and buy a domain for $2500.

Then you contact a big domainer and push it to them for $10,000, he agrees, Uni BIN.

You make a typo, enter $1000 instead of $10000. Some vulture magically appears and buys it before that big domainer, bin button, $1000.

You tell the buyer sorry it is not available at $1000 I made a typo, I just bought it for $2500.

Buyer makes a honor name shame thread on namepros.

Ethically, it's the same as whats happening here.
Different scenario, but same principles being discussed.

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.
What just happened, happens. You just have to move on.

 

[roblasch]

You make a typo, enter $1000 instead of $10000. Some vulture magically appears and buys it before that big domainer, bin button, $1000.

Who does that? How many times would you check that number to make sure it says 10000 and not 1000? See here in this thread how I typed the two numbers in the correct place? I'll check it one more time before I post because I'm not going to make a $9000 mistake that is going to cost me $1500 real dollars. If you are making those kind of mistakes you won't be in any business for long because once you make that mistake and someone buys it, it's gone. You've sold it, as promised when you list it as "buy it NOW".

 

[Fortnite]

Imagine you contact someone privately, you get a bargain and buy a domain for $2500.

Then you contact a big domainer and push it to them for $10,000, he agrees, Uni BIN.

You make a typo, enter $1000 instead of $10000. Some vulture magically appears and buys it before that big domainer, bin button, $1000.

You tell the buyer sorry it is not available at $1000 I made a typo, I just bought it for $2500.

Buyer makes a honor name shame thread on namepros.

Ethically, it's the same as whats happening here.
Different scenario, but same principles being discussed.

You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.
What just happened, happens. You just have to move on.

I think you are failing to understand the whole point here..it's not about the money. It's all about:

Principles
Ethics
Honor
Reputation

Technically the buyer can move on and forget about it (he is not obliged to)
Or
The seller makes a joke of himself(especially after the namescon speech) and decides not to honor the deal.

 

[Nametree]

deleted/not worth the trouble. some folks just have no principles.

 

[Pairadice]

Hey guys. I just repriced all my domains below $100 on flippa and sedo. They are worth much more than that, but I figure that I am not that good of a domainer and I was hoping some of you guys would tell me which ones are good. I will be able to tell this by seeing which ones sell the quickest. Then, I plan to disappear and not transfer the domains. It's ok because they won't ban me or do anything, and according to some of the people on this thread, there's not anything unethical about it. I made up a fake name on there so that when they give out my name/number it won't go anywhere. Thank you guys for helping me become a better domainer!

(just kidding)

 

[Sasan]

From all of the "you never signed anything" and "no one owes you anything" comments, it is clear that no one reads terms and conditions on the websites they use. (Newsflash - you are bound by the rules even if you don't read them.)

I don't have the number, but I am sure it is in the "hundreds per day" of virtual buyer and seller agreements that take place. Seller agrees to sell by posting on a platform, the buyer agrees to buy by clicking "buy" and unless someone is ethically challenged (as in this case) the deal goes through.

If you agree to sell on a platform and do not hold up your end, you are unethical - period. And the platform should remove you for being unethical, otherwise, they are making a statement that they, too, are unethical. People deserve to know about both so they can make educated decisions when buying or selling.

If you purport to be a leader in your field, you certainly should not be unethical. And most ironic, if you have spoken on "domain name valuation" at your industry's leading conference, you need to suck it up if you screw up on your own domain pricing. Heck, using it as a teaching moment, blog about it, make fun of yourself for making a rookie mistake, but don't be another black eye on your industry. And if you invite people to speak and they disgrace the industry, for all that is good, do not be foolish and invite them back.

This is not rocket science... "life is simple, people complicate it."

You summed this up perfectly. Thank you.

 

[Windoms]

A good principle when you encounter a situation like this is to overlook and move on.
Not put someone's name in the mud for no reason, only do it if your standing grounds are serious.
What you don't want to be done to you, don't do to others.

The guy only forgot to update an old listing, OP overreacted and I don't think you would have made this thread @Sasan , had the guy not been a public figure.
Which sucks.

"I always choose to honor the deal"
Buy a bargain domain for $2000 today.
Make a mistake and list for $1000 instead of $10,000.
Have it sold tomorrow, and see how many are still about "honoring the deal" vs "explaining the deal".
It's the same, exact thing.
You have no proof or details about what happened with this guy.
It's just an old listing.

"The domain is no longer available at this price. Apologies. It's an old listing that should have been removed".

Clear explanation, no arrogance.
I would simply understand, overlook, and move on.

 

[Sasan]

A good principle when you encounter a situation like this is to overlook and move on.
Not put someone's name in the mud for no reason, only do it if your standing grounds are serious.
What you don't want to be done to you, don't do to others.

The guy only forgot to update an old listing, OP overreacted and I don't think you would have made this thread @Sasan , had the guy not been a public figure.
Which sucks.

"I always choose to honor the deal"
Buy a bargain domain for $2000 today.
Make a mistake and list for $1000 instead of $10,000.
Have it sold tomorrow, and see how many are still about "honoring the deal" vs "explaining the deal".
It's the same, exact thing.
You have no proof or details about what happened with this guy.
It's just an old listing.

"The domain is no longer available at this price. Apologies. It's an old listing that should have been removed".

Clear explanation, no arrogance.
I would simply understand, overlook, and move on.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. It's wrong.

The BIN here wasn't a typo as you keep pushing. It wasn't a $20,000 domain that accidentally got listed for $2,000 because of a mistype. It's not an old domain that had already sold or was let to expire. It's a listing from an account with a bunch of other domains for sale. How can someone trust any of the other BIN prices if he won't stand by this one?

I have the majority of my domains listed with DAN.com. I can guarantee you if someone hit BIN on one of my domains and I told DAN, "yes, I still own it but that's an old price and I want more money for it now" they would give me swift kick and ban me from their marketplace.

Not going to comment on your character or ethics but defending the seller like this is not a good look.

 

[Sasan]

UPDATE 3:

Flippa's response:

Mark's account has been suspended:

No response from Mark yet. Although, I am happy with Flippa's response. Honestly I can't think of a single worthwhile marketplace that would tolerate this behaviour.

I have no patience for someone who pushes themselves as a leader in anything who doesn't back it up with their actions. @domainicate summed it up perfectly:

If you purport to be a leader in your field, you certainly should not be unethical. And most ironic, if you have spoken on "domain name valuation" at your industry's leading conference, you need to suck it up if you screw up on your own domain pricing. Heck, using it as a teaching moment, blog about it, make fun of yourself for making a rookie mistake, but don't be another black eye on your industry. And if you invite people to speak and they disgrace the industry, for all that is good, do not be foolish and invite them back.

 

[oldtimer]

I believe that people should only list their domains as "Buy Now" in the primary marketplace that they want to use and in all the other platforms they should list them as "Make Offer" otherwise there will always be a chance of them forgetting to update a price which is going to cause confusion for the buyers.

Clicking the "Buy Now" button enters the seller and buyer into a legal contract in most marketplaces and I believe that it should be the responsibility of the marketplace to indicate whether there has been a clear mistake in the listing which could void the sale and not for the seller or buyer to decide so unilaterally.

I do believe that regardless of the legality of such deals, when it comes to domainers dealing amongst themselves they should extend some extra courtesy to each other as far as forgiving any mistakes or lack of attention to updating prices since pretty much everyone at one time or the other might forget to change the price of a certain domain simply due to the shear number of sales platforms that are now available.

IMO

 

[Sasan]

I believe that people should only list their domains as "Buy Now" in the primary marketplace that they want to use and in all the other platforms they should list them as "Make Offer" otherwise there will always be a chance of them forgetting to update a price which is going to cause confusion for the buyers.

Clicking the "Buy Now" button enters the seller and buyer into a legal contract in most marketplaces and I believe that it should be the responsibility of the marketplace to indicate whether there has been a clear mistake in the listing which could void the sale and not for the seller or buyer to decide so unilaterally.

I do believe that regardless of the legality of such deals, when it comes to domainers dealing amongst themselves they should extend some extra courtesy to each other as far as forgiving any mistakes or lack of attention to updating prices since pretty much everyone at one time or the other might forget to change the price of a certain domain simply due to the shear number of sales platforms that are now available.

IMO

Domainers dealing with domainers is where there should be the most integrity. Precisely because another domainer should understand the norms and expectations of our industry.

 

[Sasan]

Still no word from Mark Kychma. Sure hope there aren't anymore NamesCon talks lined up with this guy.

Mark, this could have been resolved simply. You had the opportunity to step up but you chose not to and instead decided to ghost. Not a good look on you.

For anyone considering buying or selling domains with Mark Kychma: be warned.

2 disputes lost? :

 

[oldtimer]

Domainers dealing with domainers is where there should be the most integrity. Precisely because another domainer should understand the norms and expectations of our industry.

Dimainers loosing money to uphold a deal when it comes to an end user should be expected, but domainers loosing money to another domainer because of a mistake in pricing goes against the spirit of being a domainer. (in my opinion)

 

[Sasan]

Dimainers loosing money to uphold a deal when it comes to an end user should be expected, but domainers loosing money to another domainer because of a mistake in pricing goes against the spirit of being a domaier. (in my opinion)

Entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

 

[HotKey]

I would be like.. "oh poop.. I forgot about this darn domain, and didn't update the price. Oh well. My loss, buyers gain!"

Bottom line.. spirit of being a domainer is upholding the deal. In this case, honouring the bin. Extenuating circumstances are a different story, examples mentioned in previous posts. This case is not one of those.

 

[lock]

Attitudes are alarming when it comes to T&C

 

[MapleDots]

I chimed in here once already and will keep my personal opinion to myself.

That said.... what @Sasan has done so far pales by comparison to what the Domain King would have done.

Has everyone checked this out:

http://www.hallofshame.com/

I bet Rick would have started another section on his site for this situation.

 

[maya-zir]

Some guys are so quarrelsome..

 

[Sasan]

Some guys are so quarrelsome..

Some people hide behind anonymous profiles and defend unethical behaviour

 

[maya-zir]

Some people hide behind anonymous profiles and defend unethical behaviour

Like you?

 

[Sasan]

Like you?

In what way is my profile anonymous?

 

[maya-zir]

In what way is my profile anonymous?

You want to say SASAN is your real name?
I bet all russian speaking here lough at you.. move on, SASAN

 

[Sasan]

You want to say SASAN is your real name?
I bet all russian speaking here lough at you.. move on, SASAN

Thank you. I needed a good "lough" today.

 

[oldtimer]

spirit of being a domainer is upholding the deal.

You are absolutely right if two domainers engage in negotiations and come to an agreement to make a deal that is based on terms and conditions that are clear and are disclosed in full to both parties in advance.

But in my opinion trying to force a deal over an outdated BIN is against the spirit of domaining and there should be enough understanding and forgiveness amongst Industry insiders here so that we wouldn't have to have threads like this to begin with.

IMO

 

[Sasan]

You are absolutely right if two domainers engage in negotiations and come to an agreement to make a deal that is based on terms and conditions that are clear and are disclosed in full to both parties in advance.

But in my opinion trying to force a deal over an outdated BIN is against the spirit of domaining and there should be enough understanding and forgiveness amongst Industry insiders here so that we wouldn't have to have threads like this to begin with.

IMO

"Outdated BIN" according to the seller. What's the difference between that and a domainer having seller's remorse? It's our job to keep our pricing updated.

Two professionals should be held to higher standards. I don't expect random end-users to honour a buy; a lot back out and I move on. But I would absolutely expect a domainer to follow through with a deal.