NameSilo

Non Payer at Undeveloped.com

Labeled as alert in Warnings and Alerts started by wot, May 22, 2018.

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  1. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2018 VIP

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    You either have a buyer or not.

    BestBuy and Costco probably have the biggest buyers regrets where items are returned.

    It's all part of the business, you have to let it go and move on. An almost sale is still a no sale and there is not much you can do. Trying to shame the people wastes more of your time. Take the sales you actually get and forget the rest. Move on and you will be in a far better mental space.

    If I had a dime for every time I thought I had a sale.....

    Crap.... now you made me think about it :xf.laugh:
     
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  2. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    I agree with MD, chasing after deadbeats is sapping your enthusiasm and the negative energy is a waste. Focus on the good and moving forward, sales is always a numbers game and dependent on lead flow. You guys that don’t do outbound get less leads so what happens is you put more emotional investment in these non closing sales, hence the frustration. Rather than posting flaky buyers names, work on something that generates positive vibes.

    In all my years, I have spent at least 20,000-25,000 hours on the phone in solving technical sales challenges, and most were good solid incoming leads. I would patiently work with each prospect and regardless the minority of buyers were vastly outnumbered by the amount of time wasters, flakes, liars (Buyers are liars, ever heard that before?). It’s part of the game and goes with the territory. Just be glad you are not selling life insurance or some other intangible.

    @AGAME yes, As far as requiring a non refundable deposit on order to bid on ALL platforms should be required. I have had about 10 sales of piddly amounts not close on platform auctions, really stupid incompetent business people, amateurs completely. If the platform kept say a $100 deposit, it would eliminate some of the idiots.
     
  3. wot

    wot Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Not a problem for me to name and shame, done it for years will continue to do so and probably continue to make a few sales along the way, over 1000 to date so obviously my system suits me.

    It's also a service to others as the waste of space "buyers" get indexed very quickly so certainly helps with due diligence and a service to others.
     
  4. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    You miss one important point:

    1. Buyer: “how much for these oranges?”
    2. Seller: “$3 per kg.”
    3. Buyer: “can you do $2 kg?”
    4. Seller: “ok”
    5. 10kg of oranges have been reserved for the buyer, they are out of market for a week or a month until the payment done and cleared. No one else may buy these oranges from the seller in the meantime.
    6. Buyer: “I remember I still have some at home / now I realize these oranges aren’t good enough / I suddenly don’t feel like eating fruit. I wouldn’t buy today.”
    7. Seller took a photo of that customer to print out and stick it in the street with a writing “this man backed out from an orange deal”.
     
  5. Undeveloped

    Undeveloped Founder @ Undeveloped.com Undeveloped Gold Account

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    Hi Wot,

    Even though I fully understand your frustration with non-paying buyers, I don't think this is the right way to address the issue.

    Our team puts a lot of effort in to collect payments from non-active buyers and daily our team bumps into having long and painful discussions with buyers that simply refuse to honor a deal. Some of them eventually still end up paying, some just ignore any further emails or calls. Legally, the seller can then start a complaint against the buyer since he/she is in contractual breach according to our TOS.

    However, do keep in mind that not everything is black and white and that there are also some cases where either the buyer just doesn't understand what he/she is doing or they think that they're purchasing a product or service instead of a domain name.

    So I wouldn't be vouching to create a wall of shame for buyers since it can seriously hurt someone's job opportunities for example or cause other problems for these people.

    Kind regards,

    Reza
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  6. wot

    wot Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sorry Reza, just far too many of these non-payers. If these people are happy to break a legal contract then they should suffer a consequence.
    Undeveloped send 4 increasingly strong reminders and as you say,they are in a contractual breach if they fail to complete.
    I know it is a waste of time and money persueing them through legal recourse, hence, a limited amount of satisfaction on my part and a warning to others.
     
  7. AGAME

    AGAME Active Member VIP

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    I agree... to a point. But I also respectively disagree...

    Completely different business models Costco and us domain investors. There is only 1 domain like the one we're selling. When its tied up waiting for payment from a prospect then its tied up. It can not be sold to anyone else. Sure, you can field inquiries but you cant sell it and after weeks go by when the prospect never responds and the escrow facility decides its too long of a time and cancels the transaction, that other prospect has moved on.

    Costco, which I was there yesterday, has dozens if not hundreds of a particular product. If I return today what I bought yesterday then you and others could have also purchased toilet paper. I didnt hold Costco's one unique product for weeks promising to make my payment. Or, once I paid using my visa card then visa paid Costco that night when their systems ran. So if I return the product Costco decides whether or not they can salvage the return (put it back on the shelf for sale ASAP or return to vendor (RTV) and get their money back or write off the product from their accounting). That is the retail business model of those sorts of products. I worked in that world for decades. I know how the returns work and how much the stores can try to get back from vendors depending on the type of return.

    What people are complaining about here are domains. Intangible assets. And only one unique product at that. Someone takes it off our shelves and wants to pay for it then they need to pay for it because once its in escrow (for example) its no longer available to be seen by other prospective buyers. Totally different than the world of retail products. Plus, I dont know about anyone else but I do not offer a refund policy. I wouldnt even offer a "one day inspection" for escrow.com if I could I would offer zero inspection. The buyer wanted to buy my name - they already inspected it.

    Domains are more like houses than they are like Costco items is what I am saying. IMO.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  8. anantj

    anantj Active Member VIP

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    Somehow, you've conveniently chosen to ignore the contractual obligation that is mandated when you make an offer (a binding offer)
     
  9. Embrand

    Embrand Michael Bilde ICA Member Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    At least Undeveloped does a lot to try to get buyers to pay. They actually do call the buyers. I doubt Sedo ever does that unless we are talking about very large transactions.
     
  10. AGAME

    AGAME Active Member VIP

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    They certainly do, I can vouch for that myself also. Maybe other places do also but Reza and Simon both worked on one very difficult prospect for 4 weeks until they asked me what I wanted to do. And they both personally contacted me with regular updates. Other places give a system update or a generic response - you dont know if a human is even behind that message.

    Others have said, its a numbers game. It is. Here's to hoping that the numbers are favored toward sales and not deadbeats :)

    I also think that in certain cultures its OK to negotiate, even come to an agreement and then walk away anyway so I understand that some folks see no issue with this. My immigrant grandfather used to embarrass me when he would try to talk down the price of fruits and vegetables all those years ago when I was a child and would go to the grocery store with him. For him that was the norm, the custom. Sometimes he'd haggle and even get a manager to lower the price and then he'd decide he didnt want or need it. But like I said earlier, that grocery store had other Apples to sell while my grandfather haggled the price of them. He didnt hold that one Apple in his hand and take weeks to decide to pay and then not pay. :)

    I still believe something can be done to mitigate these instances of prospects going cold.

    Simply asking for a deposit will shake out 95% of the tire-kickers (as I call them) - whatever their reason is for walking away. If these folks are serious buyers then plopping down 10% for $1,000+ USD prices (or a fixed fee for for under $1,000 USD) would be no problem for a a serious prospect. They know that holds the domain name while they get their funds in order and it also goes toward the purchase BUT they lose that deposit if they decide 3 weeks later they do not want it. Sometimes it takes a while to get departmental approval to purchase large ticket items. I understand that and I have had that happen. I've had one sale take 6 months due to red tape at the corporation. I am sure others have had this experience too.

    Of course, there can be circumstances where they could get their deposit back but that would have to be extraordinary and documented. One time I had a non-paying prospect at Sedo, he bought a domain on a Friday night buy-it-now, didnt hear from him for 3 weeks until I started to do some research and found out that he was killed two days later in a traffic accident. Life happens, deposits could be refundable in extraordinary cases like that, financial problems, etc.

    Just my opinion based on experiences. :)
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  11. Jurgen Wolf

    Jurgen Wolf Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    In ~95% of cases I don't have these problems because I use Bodis and ParkingCrew only...
    So such non-payers disappear even before I start the escrow transaction... within negotiation phase.
     
  12. Jurgen Wolf

    Jurgen Wolf Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sedo just sends 2 or 3 email-reminders... every 3 days... and that's all. They don't call by phone.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  13. Smooth

    Smooth Active Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I've been noticing a bit of these of late as well. I think in most cases, the buyer is trying to get an idea of the best price at which he can get the domain, before he starts thinking about buying. Also if the deal closes fast, these backouts are more probably. The buyer feels he hasn't negotiated well enough.

    We don't list a BIN price anyway. Which is fair.

    I've had buyers backing out, and then later come back after a few weeks & offer the same price. I quote them a higher price this time, and stand my ground.
     
  14. DnDot.com

    DnDot.com Upgraded Member Gold Account ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I have had two so far this year and probably another two that I will be adding to list by the look of it. The best way to avoid such a problem would be to to better verify the buyers, either via ID like NameJet does before they can place an offer/bid or if Undeveloped deals with the actual negotiations and only brings forward solid leads (but that might be too much work for them). Finally I think we just have to stay positive and move on to the next lead and not waste too much energy thinking about a lost sale, otherwise we will just feel down unnecessarily and miss the next opportunity by focusing the wrong aspects of the business.
     
  15. zeff

    zeff Established Member

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    As sellers we receive private informations about the non buyer from undeveloped if the deal is not done.
    Just hope that undeveloped does not send the seller private informations to the non buyer !
     
  16. Embrand

    Embrand Michael Bilde ICA Member Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Apart from the non-payers, you also have "funny" offers like this one I just got:

    "You have a new offer of $348,446 on the domain name xxx.xx! The name of the buyer is Bill Gates."
     
  17. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    Accept it! Take it and run! You'll never see another chance like this.
     
  18. Embrand

    Embrand Michael Bilde ICA Member Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Too late. I already declined. So I guess Bill Gates will have to find another name or increase his offer ;)
     
  19. golan

    golan Leo.Domains Gold Account VIP

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Leo Angelo

    Leo Angelo Upgraded Member Gold Account Blue Account

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    I agree that a NamePros public list of suspicious non-payers would be nice. It could be used to check sizeable offers: if the buyer's email gets a hit, it would help reduce seller's false hope and associated grief.
     
  21. AGAME

    AGAME Active Member VIP

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    Another example of why buyer verification and a deposit are so important. If "Bill Gates" had to verify his identity AND plop down 10% into escrow, he'd think twice before messing with you. :)
     
  22. Bearded Goat

    Bearded Goat Established Member

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    I have had Sedo make phone calls on several occasions. I think it may depend on the transfer agent.
     
  23. Embrand

    Embrand Michael Bilde ICA Member Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, it might depend on the transfer agent. I have a non-payer there now who just got a third payment reminder. Will see if they call this person.
     
  24. andydotlol

    andydotlol Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Instead of my first big sale I just had my first big non payer :/ It was on GoDaddy so I didn't even get their details. I also had a non payer for a $xxx name at Flippa. That's 2/7 sales this year >.<

    I agree that a 10% deposit (or fixed fee) should be required within 72 hours. What is the point in waiting 15 days for someone who never even bothers to communicate? I can understand needing time to get funds, approval, etc but they can't send a simple "Hi, I need a couple of weeks" GTFOH!
     
  25. Backorder-ing.com

    Backorder-ing.com WorldWideWeb VIP

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    But if BuyNow option notice a potential buyer must pay first with credit card & then get the domain
    So best solution to avoid non payers is BuyNow on Undeveloped
     

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