Dynadot

Non-Payer at Undeveloped.com

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Information provided by Undeveloped.com after "buyer" who had agreed to purchase failed to respond to 4 reminders and was subsequently warned of the consequences.


IP Address -Singapore 137.132.253.10

Too many of these non payers around and they need to be exposed accordingly.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Information provided by Undeveloped.com after "buyer" who had agreed to purchase failed to respond to 4 reminders and was subsequently warned of the consequences.


IP Address -Singapore 137.132.253.10

Too many of these non payers around and they need to be exposed accordingly.

Hi Wot,

Even though I fully understand your frustration with non-paying buyers, I don't think this is the right way to address the issue.

Our team puts a lot of effort in to collect payments from non-active buyers and daily our team bumps into having long and painful discussions with buyers that simply refuse to honor a deal. Some of them eventually still end up paying, some just ignore any further emails or calls. Legally, the seller can then start a complaint against the buyer since he/she is in contractual breach according to our TOS.

However, do keep in mind that not everything is black and white and that there are also some cases where either the buyer just doesn't understand what he/she is doing or they think that they're purchasing a product or service instead of a domain name.

So I wouldn't be vouching to create a wall of shame for buyers since it can seriously hurt someone's job opportunities for example or cause other problems for these people.

Kind regards,

Reza
 
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What’s the problem? I picked up stuffs at super market, when I got to the checkpoint, I decided not to buy some of them all the time.
Even when I took them home, I could still return some of them within 7 days.
I will remember this when making a 'binding' commitment to buy your domains. You should also advertise your 7-day buyback guarantee.
 
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People claim bankruptcy every day, bad buyers are buyer ..... it happens in all walks of life

Apples/Oranges.

We're not talking about someone who is leasing/renting (to own) your domain and the stops paying and walks away from it. In that case you get your name back and can put it right back on the market for sale.

A fair comparison would be going to try to purchase a house. You can not make an offer without placing a deposit.

What we're talking about with domains are people who have legally agreed to purchase your domain for lets say $10,000. They press "buy now" and then the aftermarket (or even yourself) waits for payment.

You wait and wait and wait and wait... could be weeks sometimes even months. They tie up your domain as they drag their legs and they eventually breach their end of the contract never making payment. You cant offer your domain to anyone else because you are going to keep your end of the bargain and not sell the domain to someone else in the middle of a legal agreement to sell it to the person who you no longer hear from.

Yes, there are bad transactions in business everywhere but as I said there are repercussions to those as well.

Just because bad things happen doesnt mean we shouldnt try to find a better way to resolve and iron out rough spots. I am open to discussing WHY it wont work, not simply because there are bad people in business in other industries. Sure there are. Surely we can discuss how to stop this BS from happening in our corner of the world.
 
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Yes, far too many non-payers. I have five so far this year (at Undeveloped and Sedo). Really frustrating.
 
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Can we create a new thread with all the information about these non-payers? It would be helpful to sellers in someway. It should include non-payers from all the marketplaces.
 
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You either have a buyer or not.

BestBuy and Costco probably have the biggest buyers regrets where items are returned.

It's all part of the business, you have to let it go and move on. An almost sale is still a no sale and there is not much you can do. Trying to shame the people wastes more of your time. Take the sales you actually get and forget the rest. Move on and you will be in a far better mental space.

If I had a dime for every time I thought I had a sale.....

Crap.... now you made me think about it :xf.laugh:
 
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Buyer: β€œhow much for these oranges?”
Seller: β€œ$3 per kg.”
Buyer: β€œcan you do $2 kg?”
Seller: β€œok”
Buyer: β€œI remember I still have some at home / now I realize these oranges aren’t good enough / I suddenly don’t feel like eating fruit. I wouldn’t buy today.”
Seller took a photo of that customer to print out and stick it in the street with a writing β€œthis man backed out from an orange deal”.
You miss one important point:

1. Buyer: β€œhow much for these oranges?”
2. Seller: β€œ$3 per kg.”
3. Buyer: β€œcan you do $2 kg?”
4. Seller: β€œok”
5. 10kg of oranges have been reserved for the buyer, they are out of market for a week or a month until the payment done and cleared. No one else may buy these oranges from the seller in the meantime.
6. Buyer: β€œI remember I still have some at home / now I realize these oranges aren’t good enough / I suddenly don’t feel like eating fruit. I wouldn’t buy today.”
7. Seller took a photo of that customer to print out and stick it in the street with a writing β€œthis man backed out from an orange deal”.
 
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At least Undeveloped does a lot to try to get buyers to pay. They actually do call the buyers. I doubt Sedo ever does that unless we are talking about very large transactions.
 
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At least Undeveloped does a lot to try to get buyers to pay. They actually do call the buyers. I doubt Sedo ever does that unless we are talking about very large transactions.

They certainly do, I can vouch for that myself also. Maybe other places do also but Reza and Simon both worked on one very difficult prospect for 4 weeks until they asked me what I wanted to do. And they both personally contacted me with regular updates. Other places give a system update or a generic response - you dont know if a human is even behind that message.

Others have said, its a numbers game. It is. Here's to hoping that the numbers are favored toward sales and not deadbeats :)

I also think that in certain cultures its OK to negotiate, even come to an agreement and then walk away anyway so I understand that some folks see no issue with this. My immigrant grandfather used to embarrass me when he would try to talk down the price of fruits and vegetables all those years ago when I was a child and would go to the grocery store with him. For him that was the norm, the custom. Sometimes he'd haggle and even get a manager to lower the price and then he'd decide he didnt want or need it. But like I said earlier, that grocery store had other Apples to sell while my grandfather haggled the price of them. He didnt hold that one Apple in his hand and take weeks to decide to pay and then not pay. :)

I still believe something can be done to mitigate these instances of prospects going cold.

Simply asking for a deposit will shake out 95% of the tire-kickers (as I call them) - whatever their reason is for walking away. If these folks are serious buyers then plopping down 10% for $1,000+ USD prices (or a fixed fee for for under $1,000 USD) would be no problem for a a serious prospect. They know that holds the domain name while they get their funds in order and it also goes toward the purchase BUT they lose that deposit if they decide 3 weeks later they do not want it. Sometimes it takes a while to get departmental approval to purchase large ticket items. I understand that and I have had that happen. I've had one sale take 6 months due to red tape at the corporation. I am sure others have had this experience too.

Of course, there can be circumstances where they could get their deposit back but that would have to be extraordinary and documented. One time I had a non-paying prospect at Sedo, he bought a domain on a Friday night buy-it-now, didnt hear from him for 3 weeks until I started to do some research and found out that he was killed two days later in a traffic accident. Life happens, deposits could be refundable in extraordinary cases like that, financial problems, etc.

Just my opinion based on experiences. :)
 
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I have one nonpayer here at namepros - still waiting for responce

I have also two payers here at namepros which haven't yet accepted domain push at Godaddy

Sometimes I wish I could do everything by myself :banghead:
 
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So from your way of thinking in terms of domains you don't have a problem breaking agreements then?
Not doing your rep a lot of good making those kind of statements.
Buyer: β€œhow much for these oranges?”
Seller: β€œ$3 per kg.”
Buyer: β€œcan you do $2 kg?”
Seller: β€œok”
Buyer: β€œI remember I still have some at home / now I realize these oranges aren’t good enough / I suddenly don’t feel like eating fruit. I wouldn’t buy today.”
Seller took a photo of that customer to print out and stick it in the street with a writing β€œthis man backed out from an orange deal”.
 
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Hi Wot,

Even though I fully understand your frustration with non-paying buyers, I don't think this is the right way to address the issue.

Our team puts a lot of effort in to collect payments from non-active buyers and daily our team bumps into having long and painful discussions with buyers that simply refuse to honor a deal. Some of them eventually still end up paying, some just ignore any further emails or calls. Legally, the seller can then start a complaint against the buyer since he/she is in contractual breach according to our TOS.

However, do keep in mind that not everything is black and white and that there are also some cases where either the buyer just doesn't understand what he/she is doing or they think that they're purchasing a product or service instead of a domain name.

So I wouldn't be vouching to create a wall of shame for buyers since it can seriously hurt someone's job opportunities for example or cause other problems for these people.

Kind regards,

Reza

Sorry Reza, just far too many of these non-payers. If these people are happy to break a legal contract then they should suffer a consequence.
Undeveloped send 4 increasingly strong reminders and as you say,they are in a contractual breach if they fail to complete.
I know it is a waste of time and money persueing them through legal recourse, hence, a limited amount of satisfaction on my part and a warning to others.
 
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Transaction cancelled

Unfortunately we have to cancel this transaction. Here are the details of the buyer: Murad - [email protected] - +218923170770
 
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I've been noticing a bit of these of late as well. I think in most cases, the buyer is trying to get an idea of the best price at which he can get the domain, before he starts thinking about buying. Also if the deal closes fast, these backouts are more probably. The buyer feels he hasn't negotiated well enough.

We don't list a BIN price anyway. Which is fair.

I've had buyers backing out, and then later come back after a few weeks & offer the same price. I quote them a higher price this time, and stand my ground.
 
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Apart from the non-payers, you also have "funny" offers like this one I just got:

"You have a new offer of $348,446 on the domain name xxx.xx! The name of the buyer is Bill Gates."
 
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Had two BIN on undeveloped never show up with their payment. I guess that means they really werent too serious because whether it be 10% of 100% (BIN), those 2 buyers of mine never pulled out their wallets.

That must be a while ago since BIN's currently don't go through if the buyer doesn't complete his/her purchase on the spot. So all BIN's you'll have are from 100% legit buyers that have already paid for the domain.
 
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I have 2 non payers through my efty landers using payoneer. They click the buy it now and then agree to all the terms and conditions etc and then vanish. Wan***s
 
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It's a law of averages thing, people also default on mortgages and credit cards and etc ///
 
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It's a law of averages thing, people also default on mortgages and credit cards and etc ///

And there are major financial repercussions for defaulting on things like that. :)

Mortgages, credit cards, car loans, etc - back out of that and your phone will start ringing from collectors. Back out of student loans and the federal government will be coming after that (in the USA at least). Cant bankrupt a student loan. IRS will take any refunds prior to you seeing it and thats if DOJ hasnt already garnished the salary of those in default.

In the case where people back out of bidding on a house (for example), they forfeit what is called "earnest money" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnest_payment So it would behoove those who are interested to be serious players.

That process has to become part of the bidding and purchase of a domain name too or else the industry will remain flush with these tire-kickers. I've had 5 non-payers this year alone.

It would be so easy to implement: In order to bid on a domain name then require a credit card or whatever other means of down payment. Simple. All serious buyers will move forward and most tire-kickers will fall away.

The amount of money wasted in time chasing these people are enormous. For those who say its not worth it for under a certain amount, sure - it probably isnt. But when we lose $5000, $10000, or even more offers to people who are probably out just to waste our time, play games, or simply back out because they decided not to AND because there are no repercussions (even though they are in a binding legal agreement), it would make perfect sense to require a 10% deposit in order to bid. Personally, I'd have mid-4 figures in earnest money in my pocket this year so far AND a lot of time not wasted trying to chase down these people.

I am open for discussion, anyone that can see flaws in this for the domain world then lets all talk about it. Something has to change though. In the meantime, I would love to see a thread where we can post non-paying buyers information to warn other domain investors. Someplace we can look up whether or not these people are legit. I've had CEOs and founders of huge companies back out of 5 figure sales like its nothing. People worth multiple dozens of millions of dollars and in one case a billionaire (several years ago). This is BS and needs to change. Its worth discussing.
 
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Mods, a specific thread for this? Would have to be verified non payers before posting.
 
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People claim bankruptcy every day, bad buyers are buyer ..... it happens in all walks of life

In namepros, we should only worry about domain non payers.
 
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Transaction cancelled

Unfortunately we have to cancel this transaction. Here are the details of the buyer: Zeljko Grbavac - [email protected] - +436602953124

(Note: This transaction was only for low $xxx :xf.laugh: )
 
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Transaction cancelled

Unfortunately we have to cancel this transaction. Here are the details of the buyer: Courtney Parks - [email protected] - +14049487224

Unfortunately we have to cancel this transaction. Here are the details of the buyer: angelo morales - [email protected] - +13477023809

Unfortunately we have to cancel this transaction. Here are the details of the buyer: M Johns - [email protected] - +14803219876
 
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You either have a buyer or not.

BestBuy and Costco probably have the biggest buyers regrets where items are returned.

It's all part of the business, you have to let it go and move on. An almost sale is still a no sale and there is not much you can do. Trying to shame the people wastes more of your time. Take the sales you actually get and forget the rest. Move on and you will be in a far better mental space.

If I had a dime for every time I thought I had a sale.....

Crap.... now you made me think about it :xf.laugh:

I agree... to a point. But I also respectively disagree...

Completely different business models Costco and us domain investors. There is only 1 domain like the one we're selling. When its tied up waiting for payment from a prospect then its tied up. It can not be sold to anyone else. Sure, you can field inquiries but you cant sell it and after weeks go by when the prospect never responds and the escrow facility decides its too long of a time and cancels the transaction, that other prospect has moved on.

Costco, which I was there yesterday, has dozens if not hundreds of a particular product. If I return today what I bought yesterday then you and others could have also purchased toilet paper. I didnt hold Costco's one unique product for weeks promising to make my payment. Or, once I paid using my visa card then visa paid Costco that night when their systems ran. So if I return the product Costco decides whether or not they can salvage the return (put it back on the shelf for sale ASAP or return to vendor (RTV) and get their money back or write off the product from their accounting). That is the retail business model of those sorts of products. I worked in that world for decades. I know how the returns work and how much the stores can try to get back from vendors depending on the type of return.

What people are complaining about here are domains. Intangible assets. And only one unique product at that. Someone takes it off our shelves and wants to pay for it then they need to pay for it because once its in escrow (for example) its no longer available to be seen by other prospective buyers. Totally different than the world of retail products. Plus, I dont know about anyone else but I do not offer a refund policy. I wouldnt even offer a "one day inspection" for escrow.com if I could I would offer zero inspection. The buyer wanted to buy my name - they already inspected it.

Domains are more like houses than they are like Costco items is what I am saying. IMO.
 
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