auctions Lying .xyz making a mockery of DNJ

[betthelot]

Cant miss the weekly sales chart dominated by .xyz on DNJournal

But I smell a Negari special here. I have monitored vip.xyz for the last 4 weeks, since it was reportedly sold for $50,000usd, ended up being a shill bid on West.cn . It then went back to auction and sold for $33,000usd, 3 weeks ago, again on West.cn.

Last week Ron of DNJ said there were some big new gTLDs sales that he would report on next week but needed to verify the sales first - I immediately thought it maybe vip.xyz so I checked the whois but it was still with the xyz registry. Today the sale is showing on the DNJ weekly chart as being confirmed by Ron at DNJ. So I checked again the whois and yes its changed ownership but to who. [email protected]
but it changed again later today to [email protected]
A little digging, reverse IP checking the hosting, and using wayback archive of the new owner.
And I find the smoking gun West263.com was the previous web address for West.cn. They changed from west263.com to west.cn around late 2013. In fact west263.com redirects to west.cn.

Suspicious yes - looks like the auction house brought the name. Great marketing yes.
Wild west of domaining, no laws no morals just pump and dump.
I accept there may be a simple explanation but I dont like the look of it and all my instincts say sham.

 

[dordomai]

Close to $1 million of .xyz sales were reported by West.cn last week.

 

[deez007]

Yikes, now this certainly raises some flags. There might be some sort of explanation but seems rather dodgy to me indeed.

 

[daibo]

There's a misunderstanding.Actually,vip xyz was indeed fully paid by a investor, not bought by XYZ registry nor west cn.as far as I know, the owner of vip xyz used it for mortgaging by dai.top which is also run by west cn.

All borrowers need push their domains to dai top so that they can get money. This is the reason why the Registrant E-mail is changed to dai@west263 com and Registrant Name is cheng du xi wei shu ma ke ji you xian gong si.

I knew the specific persons who bought these .xyz domains,They're almost Chinese domain investors.If you have any doubts, please contact me.

 

[AEProgram]

I warned about something a few weeks ago on here and nobody payed attention. I AM VERY SUSPICIOUS about many of the new extension sales, VERY SUSPICIOUS!

In industries with more oversight including government agencies bigger manipulation has taken place, you are touching on something very serious about an industry that has been caught in the past rigging bids.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, HOWEVER a serious massive investigation is warranted.

 

[WhoaDomain.com]

I warned about something a few weeks ago on here and nobody payed attention. I AM VERY SUSPICIOUS about many of the new extension sales, VERY SUSPICIOUS!

In industries with more oversight including government agencies bigger manipulation has taken place, you are touching on something very serious about an industry that has been caught in the past rigging bids.

I am not accusing anyone of anything, HOWEVER a serious massive investigation is warranted.

I'm a newbie on this subject. Can you please expand on this. I'm curious and I think it could be useful for the rest of us.thanks

 

[betthelot]

There's a misunderstanding.Actually,vip xyz was indeed fully paid by a investor, not bought by XYZ registry nor west cn.as far as I know, the owner of vip xyz used it for mortgaging by dai.top which is also run by west cn.

All borrowers need push their domains to dai top so that they can get money. This is the reason why the Registrant E-mail is changed to dai@west263 com and Registrant Name is cheng du xi wei shu ma ke ji you xian gong si.

I knew the specific persons who bought these .xyz domains,They're almost Chinese domain investors.If you have any doubts, please contact me.

Christ you jumped on that quick New member today, only one message to counter my suspicions. How about xyz do a update on how these names are being used or an article on the investor. I still smell a rat. But time will tell and I accept I could be wrong but nothing .xyz does should be taken at face value, due diligence and all that

 

[000]

I was just thinking the same thing. There's zero doubt in my mind that there is a lot of manipulation in the XYZ market, so it's definitely disappointing to see a publication like DNJ promoting their efforts.

If you ask me, though, DNJ's usefulness is on the decline anyway. Hopefully some efforts are made to make it relevant again.

 

[AEProgram]

I'm a newbie on this subject. Can you please expand on this. I'm curious and I think it could be useful for the rest of us.thanks

The following is all an hypothetical theory, I am not accusing anyone of anything, it is important you realize this as I have no proof of anything.

I will use stocks as an example of how manipulation works.

You invested in some stock at $1 a share, you have 25000 shares. The stock is not moving, it may even be tanking. The company has no news and makes no money.

The volume is low, maybe 500-1500 shares trade daily. To move the stock to $2 would take about $5000 however it might get others looking at it and more sheep to dump their money into it.

In other words, you create fake movement. How? You put up some shares for sale with a price of $1.25 and some other account buys it, then some more at $1.60, then some more at $1.90 etc.

The people holding on to these shares are scared to sell, they feel something big is going down, and sheep see movement and jump into buying as they feel this stock will just go up and up and they better buy now.

This is a classic case of stock manipulation that happens often unfortunately, it is a crime.

This technique can work in other areas too.

Same with domains. Look how many people buying up 4L.com created a major spike in the price of these names, in reality, all you needed to cause such a spike is many staged reported sales and the rest would just take off, the sheep can do a pretty good job on building of a fake bubble foundation.

You can create any bubble in any commodity by staging certain sales, this does not require major skill.

 

[garptrader]

I believe that the domaining community does benefit from knowing what end users are willing to pay for domains. Likewise, it is probably also useful to know that domain investors are willing to pay x% of an end user price. So sharing domain sales helps in pricing decisions. However, having been in this industry for a while, I am suspicious of quite a few sales we see reported on DNJ .COM included.

Several new TLDs like .condos and .training and .club do sound interesting. However, I believe reported sales need an independent verification due to the fact that investors do rely on published reports to some extent. I cannot really fault DNJ because they are not paid to report sales. But I believe collectively there should be some independent audit of reported sales to provide reasonable assurance that reported sales are legit.

 

[betthelot]

I was in my car and thinking about Daniel Negari, (I'm sad, I know) Daniel I have a lot of respect for, In his position I would want to create the impression of a good aftermarket for .xyz names, to keep the renewals coming.
So giving what is publicly known, I now think the sham is quiet simple. Simple but clever which has all the hallmarks of Daniel over it.

Auction a name with you best registrar West.cn.
Get Mr A to bid and win the domain.
Mr A transfers $33,000 USD to West.cn.
Mr A then agrees a mortgage loan with West.cn for $33,000USD and transfers the name to West.cn.
West.cn gives Mr A 33,000USD as a loan against the domain name
Whois changes showing the name is owned by West263.com who are part of West.cn.
Mr A never needs to pay back the loan as West.cn has the domain.
Give with the left hand, take back with the right hand and all nicely documented that a transfer of monies has taken place for DNJ to scrutinise. Of course Daniel gets no money but great publicity and the name is under his friend West.cn so if a real buyer comes along it can be sold and then Daniel will get his pay day.
If I was in a court of law this would be my angle of attack.

 

[DomainVP]

Time will tell...

Let's not forget that registries were stuffing many many thousands of .xyz into the accounts of domain owners without their permission - in order to inflate the .XYZ zone count.

There are very little laws and regulations when it comes to this industry, and very short memories apparently.

Daniel Negari has no shame in doing whatever it takes to make .xyz successful.

Investor beware.

 

[betthelot]

Time will tell...

Let's not forget that registries were stuffing many many thousands of .xyz into the accounts of domain owners without their permission - in order to inflate the .XYZ zone count.

There are very little laws and regulations when it comes to this industry, and very short memories apparently.

Daniel Negari has no shame in doing whatever it takes to make .xyz successful.

Investor beware.

If I was in his shoes I would do the same. Business is amoral. His interests are not the same as domainers interests.
As you say beware could be left holding a bag of spam invested names.

 

[mad409]

@betthelot

I'd be careful starting threads like this, what's said unless you really have the facts to back up your statements. JMO...

Lying .xyz making a mockery of DNJ

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/can-you-sue-defamation.html

 

[premkumar]

@betthelot

I'd be careful starting threads like this, what's said unless you really have the facts to back up your statements. JMO...

Lying .xyz making a mockery of DNJ

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/can-you-sue-defamation.html

It makes mockery on "freedom of speech" . People have the right to say their opinion.

 

[nomen]

'Negari special' :D

 

[mad409]

It makes mockery on "freedom of speech" . People have the right to say their opinion.

If it's an opinion that's different. But saying that .xyz is LYING is not an opinion!

Here's a few statements and not directed as opinions as I read them.

1. Lying .xyz making a mockery of DNJ

2. But I smell a Negari special here. (And proceeds with the so called investigation of proof)

3. looks like the auction house bought the name. Great marketing yes.
Wild west of domaining, no laws no morals just pump and dump.

4. So giving what is publicly known, I now think the sham is quiet simple. Simple but clever which has all the hallmarks of Daniel over it.

5. Give with the left hand, take back with the right hand and all nicely documented that a transfer of monies has taken place for DNJ to scrutinize. Of course Daniel gets no money but great publicity and the name is under his friend West.cn so if a real buyer comes along it can be sold and then Daniel will get his pay day.
If I was in a court of law this would be my angle of attack.

6. His interests are not the same as domainers interests.

I personally think there's better ways to express an opinion, these are all allegations as I see them towards .xyz, dnjournal and cn.west and not an opinion.

I'm not an attorney so all I'm saying is state known facts only and stop the conspiracies. Be careful with what you say online, people are watching. I would personally lock this thread unless someone provides actual proof but it's not my site..

 

[HeyNow]

I agree with you that a "mockery" has been made of DNJ, but I don't think that is anything new. In my opinion, DNJ lost credibility a long time ago. This BS has been going on for a long time. Wake up.

And when you consider my opinions here, just remember I don't spam you with baloney data week in and week out.

 

[AEProgram]

I believe that the domaining community does benefit from knowing what end users are willing to pay for domains. Likewise, it is probably also useful to know that domain investors are willing to pay x% of an end user price. So sharing domain sales helps in pricing decisions. However, having been in this industry for a while, I am suspicious of quite a few sales we see reported on DNJ .COM included.

Several new TLDs like .condos and .training and .club do sound interesting. However, I believe reported sales need an independent verification due to the fact that investors do rely on published reports to some extent. I cannot really fault DNJ because they are not paid to report sales. But I believe collectively there should be some independent audit of reported sales to provide reasonable assurance that reported sales are legit.

I agree with you that a "mockery" has been made of DNJ, but I don't think that is anything new. In my opinion, DNJ lost credibility a long time ago. This BS has been going on for a long time. Wake up.

And when you consider my opinions here, just remember I don't spam you with baloney data week in and week out.

why would you say that? he demands proof is the sale was not by some public auction platform

 

[dordomai]

I got the impression that almost all high .xyz sales came from West.cn. Anyone noticed the same?

The top 30 .XYZ sales from Namebio:

1.xyz 181,720 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
9.xyz 175,166 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
6.xyz 125,000 USD 2015-11-22 FindYourDomain
8.xyz 81,741 USD 2015-09-11 4.CN
88.xyz 70,000 USD 2016-01-11 NamesCon
66.xyz 65,450 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
xx.xyz 59,417 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
51.xyz 46,200 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
11.xyz 42,812 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
ym.xyz 39,424 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
yy.xyz 38,583 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
98.xyz 35,728 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
hk.xyz 34,496 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
vip.xyz 32,956 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
35.xyz 30,800 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
22.xyz 26,545 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
52.xyz 24,332 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
fw.xyz 23,408 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
dp.xyz 23,100 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
hx.xyz 19,096 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
zz.xyz 17,584 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
87.xyz 15,433 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
zt.xyz 14,322 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
ck.xyz 14,168 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
163.xyz 12,628 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
jjj.xyz 9,600 USD 2016-02-23 NameJet
126.xyz 9,240 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
pz.xyz 8,334 USD 2015-12-21 West.cn
hot.xyz 8,162 USD 2016-04-24 West.cn
deals.XYZ 8,113 USD 2014-05-30 NameJet

 

[SBS66]

....Same with domains. Look how many people buying up 4L.com created a major spike in the price of these names, in reality, all you needed to cause such a spike is many staged reported sales and the rest would just take off, the sheep can do a pretty good job on building of a fake bubble foundation.

You can create any bubble in any commodity by staging certain sales, this does not require major skill.

As a newbie with some experience in other areas, I see so many on here talking about these 4L.com's and talking about "Chinese investors" that so far I haven't seen identified anywhere. Unfortunately I don't know any Chinese dialect or the main one, to be able to go out and check these things for myself.

It seems to me that the market for these 4L.coms may be there but is probably small compared to all the talk about it. I suspect that the bulk of the buyers are fellow domainers. I can't tell a CHIP from a dorito chip, but if I was able to, I'd still would do what I'm doing..nothing.

And I think the same thing about all these new domains. Personally, I think xyz is a dumb extension, Google, Alphabet and the like notwithstanding.

 

[SBS66]

... all I'm saying is state known facts only and stop the conspiracies. Be careful with what you say online, people are watching. I would personally lock this thread unless someone provides actual proof but it's not my site..

But isn't that the whole point of a thread like this: that no one knows the facts.

As for locking the thread, well..they might as well lock the entire forum since nothing said here can be verified anywhere else. For example: when anyone posts that they sold X domain for $X somewhere else, under an assumed name here, how can anyone verify that? Aside from the sales here, I doubt it.

 

[Alessandro Couteau]

As a newbie with some experience in other areas, I see so many on here talking about these 4L.com's and talking about "Chinese investors" that so far I haven't seen identified anywhere. Unfortunately I don't know any Chinese dialect or the main one, to be able to go out and check these things for myself.

It seems to me that the market for these 4L.coms may be there but is probably small compared to all the talk about it. I suspect that the bulk of the buyers are fellow domainers. I can't tell a CHIP from a dorito chip, but if I was able to, I'd still would do what I'm doing..nothing.

And I think the same thing about all these new domains. Personally, I think xyz is a dumb extension, Google, Alphabet and the like notwithstanding.

Your a little late to the party my friend. .xyz gets shot down by everyone and LLLL.com gets praise yet if you are not aware, prices for LLLL.com chips went from $1900 all the way down to $1200 in a matter of weeks !!! Hahaha. That's a shady investment if you ask me...

And all you need to know is a chip is a LLLL.com in which there is no vowels such as A, I, O, U, E or the letter V ... Otherwise it's a non chip and the value is exceedingly different on market standards.

As for Chinese Investors let me tell you a secret ! There not here at Namepros "shhhh"

 

[HeyNow]

why would you say that? he demands proof is the sale was not by some public auction platform

Well, glad you asked. You say, " ... he demands proof ..." and then you continue to state an exception IN THE SAME SENTENCE! "...if the sale was not by some public auction platform." Aren't most "sales results" provided by some public auction platform (i.e. Flippa, Sedo, Snapnames)?

"He demands proof" you say. Look, this is the same guy who uses the tagline "DNJournal, the Domain Industry News Magazine." But then no coverage of the Adam Dicker controversy detailed in a separate thread here at Namepros. "Proof?" You mean hearsay from some unidentified participant at a domainer conference? That's "proof" of a sale?

Don't get me started bro, you sound silly with your statement, "Why would you say that?" Just plain silly.

 

[Kate]

Keep in mind that DNJ does not make the news, DNJ reports the news - and quotes sources. So you can decide for yourself if you want to trust one particular source/venue or not. It is obvious that some sales are doctored and reported as bona fide transactions. Every market is subject to lies, manipulation, insider trading.

One thing is for sure: .xyz is one of the most hyped up extensions since .mobi.
Negari can take credit for that, but at some point it is the speculators themselves who are fueling the hype, because they start following the followers without questioning the fundamentals. By this I mean the relevance and global appeal of .xyz.

I am personally wary, in my view Negari is a car salesman and he will sell you anything. After all this is the man who brought us .com.de, and now he's moving on to other TLDs. Sometimes there is a fine line between marketing and deception.

Also, the guy has owned (and maybe, still owns) great domains like Driving.com, Degree.com, Ringtones.com, PhD.com. As a publicity stunt he sold his own name negari.com to mark his shift away from .com, but what happened to the other names in the portfolio ? Did he liquidate everything ? I'm curious.