LLLL People, prove it!

[jacal1]

I hope that evryone on this board makes a 100x ROI, and a string of major sales. However, I think many on this board who are newer to this will make the mistake of spending hard-earned cash based on hype.

For me, I just can't buy into the "LLLLs will run out so that means they'll be valuable" theory. People say that about dictionary domains but I'm still waiting for someone to take exhilirative.com off my hands. I know that the natural analogy is to 3 letter domains, but I think that's flawed in many ways. Bottom line, there are tons of very smart and very rich people out there who would grab all the rest if they knew they could get a good ROI. Quite frankly, I don't think they'll ever run out anyway.

So, here is a challenge: I am not looking for arguments about LLLLs will be valuable and why I am wrong. You can find those in plenty of places elsewhere.

I am looking for proof. List your LLLL domain sales - BUT only those non-pronounceables with 2 or more bad letters or one q or z. Also, sales to domainers don't count - maybe they swallowed the hype and decided to buy or are buying on spec. (Domainer sales of any type of domain will immediately stop if end-user sales are nowhere to br found.)

Sounds like a lot to ask, but if they are that valuable and will be worth that much that soon, we should hear about some end-user sales of even bad letter LLLLs.

 

[italiandragon]

I hope that evryone on this board makes a 100x ROI, and a string of major sales. However, I think many on this board who are newer to this will make the mistake of spending hard-earned cash based on hype.

For me, I just can't buy into the "LLLLs will run out so that means they'll be valuable" theory. People say that about dictionary domains but I'm still waiting for someone to take exhilirative.com off my hands. I know that the natural analogy is to 3 letter domains, but I think that's flawed in many ways. Bottom line, there are tons of very smart and very rich people out there who would grab all the rest if they knew they could get a good ROI. Quite frankly, I don't think they'll ever run out anyway.

So, here is a challenge: I am not looking for arguments about LLLLs will be valuable and why I am wrong. You can find those in plenty of places elsewhere.

I am looking for proof. List your LLLL domain sales - BUT only those non-pronounceables with 2 or more bad letters or one q or z. Also, sales to domainers don't count - maybe they swallowed the hype and decided to buy or are buying on spec. (Domainer sales of any type of domain will immediately stop if end-user sales are nowhere to br found.)

Sounds like a lot to ask, but if they are that valuable and will be worth that much that soon, we should hear about some end-user sales of even bad letter LLLLs.

:bah:

 

[bro]

http://www.namepros.com/domain-name-discussion/358387-the-llll-com-sales-report-thread.html

database building, seeing your trader rank 0 seems to me you are dealing only with end users ...

 

[Keynes]

I am looking for proof. List your LLLL domain sales - BUT only those non-pronounceables with 2 or more bad letters or one q or z. Also, sales to domainers don't count - maybe they swallowed the hype and decided to buy or are buying on spec. (Domainer sales of any type of domain will immediately stop if end-user sales are nowhere to br found.)

Alan,

First off, you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of speculation - it's about absolute ROI going forward, and there's no real difference between sales to resellers or end-users: a sale is a sale. That being said, if you're looking for an inductive proof, I would suggest your problem is ill-posed but am happy to provide 2 potential solutions:

1) Search on NameBio.com and you'll find many sales of "poor" quality LLLL.com in the x,xxx range (e.g., Zayo.com $7500 Afternic, 8/8/07, et al)

2) Check back in 12 months and we'll see where the LLLL market sits - the entire idea of speculation is that there's RISK, so nobody is saying for sure how the market will proceed but rather making a probabilistic bet based on potential.

QED to come

 

[xman]

:bah:

LOL

I guess he's not really reading the thread you created.

 

[jacal1]

I am not hear to cause trouble. Far from it. Whenever you invest in a speculative manner, its healthy to hear the "devil's advocates" perhaps louder than those who agree with you, no? We're all in this thing together in some ways, and I'd love to be wrong and know that everyone in those other threads made off like bandits! On the other hand, this thing can be addictive and people may be spending beyond their means or otherwise unwisely.

Sometimes in these forums people are afraid to voice opinions counter to certain waves, whether its LLLLs or .mobis or domain hacks. Threads such as "all LLLLs will be worth $200 or more in three years" might mislead people - or at least its worth giving another view when that kind of statemet is made.

p.s:
Yes, I am usually dealing with end users when I sell because that's where I focus, though I've sold to domainers through Sedo, Moniker and some live/silent auctions.

p.p.s. I'd argue that zayo is pronounceable. The ones left now are qxvj etc. that are bad letters and not pronounceable.

 

[italiandragon]

LOL

I guess he's not really reading the thread you created.

I honestly do not care anymore. I said what I had to say about it. People can express their opinions obviously but deny the evidence is a crime I could say.

And I`m tired to repeat the same words....but one last time ok:

"TIME WILL TELL"

 

[tzsxc]

The sales information is out there. The one big one i remember is MSIG.com for 50k+.

 

[italiandragon]

I am not hear to cause trouble. Far from it. Whenever you invest in a speculative manner, its healthy to hear the "devil's advocates" perhaps louder than those who agree with you, no? We're all in this thing together in some ways, and I'd love to be wrong and know that everyone in those other threads made off like bandits!

Sometimes in these forums people are afraid to voice opinions counter to certain waves, whether its LLLLs or .mobis or domain hacks. Threads such as "all LLLLs will be worth $200 or more in three years" might mislead people - or at least its worth giving another view when that kind of statemet is made.

p.s:
Yes, I am usually dealing with end users when I sell because that's where I focus, though I've sold to domainers through Sedo, Moniker and some live/silent auctions.

p.p.s. I'd argue that zayo is pronounceable. The ones left now are qxvj etc. that are bad letters and not pronounceable.

I must be an idiot then: I have sold 2 nice LLL.mobi just to reg more LLLL.com even with Q , X and Z just because I do believe in great price increase while you stated that don`t believe that they will run out......watch the list.......2 months maximun and they are gone I think.

 

[Keynes]

I'm all for voicing opinions, and nobody should really think there is an iron clad guarantee that poor LLLL.coms will be worth a certain amount in X years. There is great risk in this market (personally, I only have premium LLLL.coms), but I think there is also great potential. Diversification in one's portfolio is always vital - across types, TLDs, etc. LLLL.com is one submarket, among many, and I think skepticism is quite healthy. Everyone should feel free to voice an opinion so long as it's a) backed up by facts and b) supported with sound logic. Happy investing, everyone!

 

[dmblea]

Obviously I do hope that LLLL.com prices gain momentum, however, with that said I think the ZAYO.com sale was an anomaly.

Last week, I was offering XAKU.com, which is both pronounceable and brandable (imho) on this board at prices ranging from $1200 all the way down to $350, and not one taker.

Time will tell where the LLLL.com market goes. But I can tell you this - I do hope that I’m able to look back to the day that XAKU.com didn’t sell for $350 and smile, because I got an offer similar to that of ZAYO.com.

 

[jacal1]

I'm all for voicing opinions, and nobody should really think there is an iron clad guarantee that poor LLLL.coms will be worth a certain amount in X years. There is great risk in this market (personally, I only have premium LLLL.coms), but I think there is also great potential. Diversification in one's portfolio is always vital - across types, TLDs, etc. LLLL.com is one submarket, among many, and I think skepticism is quite healthy. Everyone should feel free to voice an opinion so long as it's a) backed up by facts and b) supported with sound logic. Happy investing, everyone!

Great post - its really all I'm trying to say.

In the beginning of my domaining I caught the dictionary domain buzz. Forums were all over this - just like the LLLLs now. It was a sure bet - many of you probably remember this wave on the forums. Luckily I've gotten a bit wiser (okay many including my wife would disagree!) and know that the best available domain is not going to fall into a pigeon hole - it could be a LLLL, a L-L-L, a generic, or a 4 worder. I just got over $800 for a recent hand reg non .com with a hyphen...the "rules" would have precluded that, but it was actually a very fair deal on both sides.

 

[ilcesco]

ahh, sometimes I wonder what the people did with all those Blook names somebody was hyping on the forums about one year ago...

 

[italiandragon]

did anyone read this?

http://dyyo.com/letter_qxyz.php

It was written about a year ago

 

[sashas]

Ok, I'm a LLLL.com lover

But frankly, the way they drop everyday, I highly doubt they'll all disappear.

Yes, the pronounceable ones, the premium letters ones, and the CVCV, VCVC ones will disappear always and won't usually be dropped (other than by mistake or out of ignorance).

For the new people who want to get LLLL.coms: Don't buy QKLQ.com thinking that it can be pronounced.
Don't buy OXZV just because it has an 'O' in it.

Stay away from these two varieties, and you'll do fine with the other LLLL.coms.


I personally have just one LLLL.com that I've handregged. Rest all were backordered, bought on the aftermarket. And if you wanna make your bucks on LLLL.coms, I'd suggest you do the same. You can get some great pronounceable LLLL.coms for $60 at Snap. So instead of regging 10 QZYV.coms, buy one Voul.com

 

[Michael]

I don't think LLLL.coms will ever skyrocket like LLL.coms have. Think about it, there are only 17,576 LLL possibilities for the entire world to have. With LLLL.coms there are 456,976. Anyone who thinks there is going to be a mass buyout of LLLLs is off their rocker.

But yes, the CVCVs and VCVCs will definitely skyrocket, because there are only 11,025 for each type. That's pretty rare, and ones with alternating letter types are the most pronounceable/brandable ones.

I would pay a lot to have a CVCV, but I don't think VQYX.com and the like will EVER be valuable.

 

[verbster]

LLLL.coms have a good future, but they are far from equal. A couple of small factors can make or break value.

I think the ZAYO.com sale was an anomaly.

It may have been, but there's a huge difference between zayo.com and xaku.com. While they are both pronounceable, using "X" as the initial sound is neither common nor easy to distinquish...which means it's hard to spell....exactly the opposite of zayo, which spells exactly the way it sounds....not to mention that zayo had 500K google returns, and xaku has barely over a thousand.

If you were a company choosing between these two names, there would be no doubt as to which one to pick....and that's the rub, as most high priced LLLL.coms will be easy to spell by sound and most likely relate to an object or name (like wamu--Washington Mutual--as advertised on TV), which makes them memorable.

Only those LLLL.coms that are true abbreviations or acronyms will command the big bucks.

 

[toptek]

Ruling out special cases when the four letters are true acronyms or established company names, etc. people will agree that the theory behind the value of 4-letter domains is simply that they are short and/or they will become scarce. But ugly is always abundant, and LLL are way less abundant than LLLL, so the scarcity factor is not major. The real criteria is their being "short".

But, I think that people get blindsighted by a wrongful notion of the benefits of a short domain. Domainers go for 4 letter domains because they are short, and because they are (allegedly) becoming scarce... but the real determining factor in any domain valuation is not shortness, it's its mnemonic value. The value of a domain is not about it being just short. Domains are mnemonic tricks so that people don't have to remember IPs like phones.

In other words, a good short domain is not good because it has few letters, but because it's memorable. So yes, four-letter domains are valuable IF they are also memorable, that is, pronounceable... as for them becoming scarce, trust me, nonsensical domains will never be scarce... ugly is never scarce, by definition. So here's my newly minted proverb:

"A short domain is not the one that's short, short is the domain that I can remember."

So I would only buy domains that are memorable, either because they actually mean something or because they roll easily off the tongue, the classic VCVC. All others, I think they will keep selling for $8 well into forever.

 

[xman]

I thought I should post these sales here

CGHR.com --$250 ---08/09/2007
ZAYO.com --$7,500 ---08/08/2007
lypp.com --$4,300 ---07/03/2007
urvu.com --$3,000 ---07/03/2007

sfcg.com --$1,667 ---06/30/2007
loci.com --$10,000 ---06/25/2007
pwrd.com --$10,000 ---06/22/2007
toow.com --$425 ---06/21/2007
ZGAD.com --$699 ---06/20/2007
xlex.com --$800 ---06/19/2007
lwrx.com --$475 ---06/18/2007
ubti.com --$4,825 ---06/14/2007
zzup.com --$780 ---06/13/2007
Pzow.com --$1,500 ---06/11/2007
HHey.com --$515 ---06/01/2007

dkim.com --$4,288 ---05/31/2007
tgah.com --$1,500 ---05/29/2007
MMOP.com --$600 ---05/22/2007
myyp.com --$11,800 ---05/18/2007
dadt.com --$4,812 ---05/17/2007
ccih.com --$215 ---05/17/2007
Vidd.com --$1,500 ---05/15/2007
veoj.com --$400.00 ---05/08/2007
CBFP.com --$500.00 ---05/03/2007

ZAYO.com was an anomaly ?

Is pwrd.com for $10,000 also an anomaly?
And myyp.com for $11,800 an anomaly as well?

 

[verbster]

Is pwrd.com for $10,000 also an anomaly?
And myyp.com for $11,800 an anomaly as well?

Quite the contrary; they are both good examples of abbreviations and/or acromyms:
pwrd = perfect world and goes to their site;
myyp = my yellow pages and goes to a yellow pages site.

tgah is also a great example, as it goes to "The Greatest American Hero"

These might be considered anomalies:

lypp: points to gaboogie.com and has only 20k google returns;
pzow: parking page and under 2k google;
dadt: page not found, but 246K google:

loci is a great example of a domain parking page that exploits the many things loci stands for and has 16 million google returns to prove it....same for dkim.