NameSilo

Issue with landers and Make Offer - Need Advice

Labeled as advice in Domain Buying and Selling Discussion started by twiki, Jan 18, 2020.

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  1. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    I'm having the following issue with my .com names in the xxx range, and Make Offer. Happens both at Dan and own landers (currently pointing at Dan). Cannot use BIN as those are set at Afternic.

    If I don't accept the original offer, I lose the sale in most cases.


    Most lander buyers for xxx range seem to be really, really annoyed by negotiations.

    I'm thinking this is an outcome of the usual impulse buy dragged into negotiation. But I have a nagging feeling there's more to it.

    For example, let's say I have a domain which would otherwise have a BIN of $800. The domain is set with Make Offer for $400. How it goes:
    • An offer comes in for $400 (in 95% of cases they are set at min offer)
    • I counter with say $600
    • At this point there is either no response anymore, OR deny after a few days
    • I send another offer of $500 or even $400
    • No response from this point (further offers are either denied or in most cases ignored)
    How to solve this problem?

    Side note, I don't mind discounting as my supply of names is quite high so I'd better discount a lot than to lose a customer. But negotiations never take off. On the other hand I also can't afford to sell ALL my names at half their retail value, which I am pretty confident it is set correctly. Also not to wait, cashflow must run - but also can't price everything at "market" value in the $200 range as I'd lose money overall.

    My only idea so far is to set a min price somewhat above the existing min and make it function like a BIN.

    In the above example, I would set Min = $600 instead, and accept all offers that come for that value. In this case some buyers will pay the full $800 and others $600 which is fine with me.

    Any other ideas? Something I'm missing?

    TIA!
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
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  2. Randolph

    Randolph Reverse Engineer

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    When people see "make offer", they go blind to the BIN. The offer price is what they think the price will be.

    When you answer back at a higher price, they get frustrated wondering why you allowed them to make an offer at that price, only to deny the offer.

    In the end, it comes to numbers. Math.

    If you sit on a domain in hopes of getting your dream price, you may miss out on fair offers and never get a sale.

    Denying a fair offer in favor of a better offer that a) doesn't happen or b) takes years will earn you less money than if you took the fair offer and compounded that through another handful of quicker, but fair sales.

    Play with your floor prices, provide the least amount of buyer friction, and try to look at your names objectively; As assets with no emotional attachment.
     
  3. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Your comment makes a lot of sense, although it is mostly confirmation than something new. Side note, I don't have emotional attachments about names. Fortunately. That'd be bad business.

    Your response pretty much confirms my thinking though. It's also an issue of what kind of domainer you are - long or market. I'm long but I have more supply that I can sustain currently, therefore I'm going to switch to 2-tier sales where many names will be market (the ones <1K), and my long ones remain like that (those are >2k or at least 1.5K). So yeah, a bit of fiddling with pricing and thanks for confirming the Make offer viewed as BIN thing. This should play out nicely once they will be discounted.
     
  4. Randolph

    Randolph Reverse Engineer

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    Sometimes all we need is a little reassurance.

    It's tough to separate emotion from business when one could argue domaining is only successful due to emotion. I've let emotion get between business more than I can count. Most of us are human after all.

    Great call on the tiered sales model. I follow the same strategy using 3 tiers:

    Developables - Names that could easily fetch <$1000, but easily $1000+ if simply developed. Other developers love these but wont spend much. I would let most of these go for any offer over $250.

    Marketables - Strong names between $500 and a few thousand. These are versatile names that wet the whistle of everyday people at a price most can afford. My sweet spot here is $750-$1750, with very little argumentative negotiation. Accept the offer and move on.

    Squatables - These are the names that I'm willing to sit on for 5+ years before the right candidate comes. Anything in low $xxxx gets a swift "I appreciate the offer, but not looking to sell at this time or price."
     
  5. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Yep, very similar tiers. I also have my own names to develop.

    (Going to send you a DM with a question)
     
  6. domeen

    domeen Top Contributor VIP

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    But min offer to the price you would usually sell:) then add another 20% as buy now.
    Never take first offer! Always counter! If you lose sale, then buyer would have not paid anyway!
     
  7. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    I've turned down many $100, $200 offers in 2019. Some I shouldn't have because I'm dropping those in 2020.
    Let's say you are new with a limited budget, and given you are spending $20 per domain, best to sell at $200 and buy 10 more domains then wait. You learn, you grow, you have more domains, you learn more, you grow faster.

    Not talking about fantastic names, $20 names, as a beginner.

    Spending lots of money early on is suicide.
    Unless you know you are spending to learn.
     
  8. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    The latter.

    It's not something that will break the bank, but a medium-risk investment to expand in more niches, discover untapped opportunities. A few of these have paid already, others will pay over the next years. Information is key.

    I'm not sure if I qualify for limited budget; I'm in 5 figs already and went only about half in the budget, could even get more, BUT I tend to be careful with investments. Risk a little, you can't reap benefits without risks, but there's a limit.

    I've also turned many $100 and $200 down in 2019, and even $500. Some I shouldn't have, just like you.

    Meantime I think I discovered the root of the cause. I'm dropping most of the "discovery" layer, they will not be renewed and most are bought in Octomber - November (took advantage of the offers). So there was a sudden shift in plans.

    I've observed early that the sales curve doesn't match expectations and tried to figure why. Well, simply said, one has to pair the domain with the right price - and that might vary a lot. I have prices from $100 to 5-fig in my portfolio. What I did right now is to separate the tiers and market-price the whole discovery portion with prices ranging mostly from $100 to $500 and carefully weighted.

    They were indeed overpriced; market pricing was not my strength but right now I believe I nailed it.

    Edit: Fortunately these aren't bad names. They are the actively sought kind, although most are anyway in the <1K range. But I have no doubt many could be sold rather quick with the right pricing. And there were some inquiries down the road that precisely correlate with what I know right now to be the sweet spot for them, market-price-wise.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  9. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    same for me

    that is often the case

    it looks to me that even when those inquiries come from end-users
    they have a budget in mind and no intention at all to go beyond

    I just negotiate on a domain the offer is 450
    and my counter is 500
    he disappeared.

    I recountered with 450 after a while
    and the counter was 350 max .

    now we both are pissed.

    great Idea

    I tried

    had BIN 488 on my new domains
    :nothing

    now I switched to 2500
    as when a bid comes in its influenced by the "Anchor"

    just started
    so no results for now


    any idea?
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  10. Windoms

    Windoms Established Member

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    Huge tip.
    Use the Uniregistry market interface to sort your domains, best tool ever.

    Create portfolios categories like
    100's (domains you know you are going to drop for certain, 100$, not 150 or 500, no hope on mistakes).
    1000's (up to 5)
    5000's (up to 10)
    10000's (and up)
    Make offers
    Uncategorized (could be domains you want to keep for personal use or wtv).

    When you place all your domains in the portfolios, you quickly spot domains that are in the wrong place when they are next to others.
    It makes trimming and having strategies easier.
    For example when you decide to price everything that is 5000 6000 7000 8000 at $5,000.

    It's become my main control center.
     
  11. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    I'm a full stack developer, so I build and use my own custom tools. But I guess your tip can be a time saver for many others.

    Anyway, food for thought. Over time I have built and been using about a dozen different tools I use daily for domaining, including a keyword generator and many small tools for processing domain lists.

    I think I'm going to release these soon for free, part of a domain website I plan to build, and welcoming the NP community to use them. I've also built marketplaces in the past, well, I guess a free marketplace (no commission) would be useful to NP members. I don't plan to compete with anyone else in this field, but rather to focus on NP members only, but anyway the services will be free unless you really want something off the scale which can generate costs.

    Been running in circles around this idea for a while.
     
  12. winst

    winst Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    My feeling is that many domainers knew exactly what names were worth and were only interested at buying with enough discount for quick closes. Most seemed to need at least 20% discount to account for marketplace commissions and were traders and not "buy-and-hold".

    But if you are selling to end users or develop your domain names, you should just ignore trader offers.
     
  13. namemarket

    namemarket Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sadly, I don't see how to solve that problem. I run into it all the time regardless of the price from $500 to $5,000. I think it's more related to the fact there are so many 100s of alternative similar names for sale or registration so buyer thinks there's little need to pay more or negotiate and they grab another name.

    Had a few lately. Very recently one from a serious end-user legit buyer of $1,400 offer via my landing page and DAN, which I countered at $1,700 but buyer declined it and when I reverted back to ok original $1,400 he goes down to $1,100. Next I said OK to that but he went silent, so I then dropped quickly by $500 below his first offer down to $900 however he stayed silent. It is now a dead deal.

    Several years ago before new tlds and all the new sale,venues with more supply that scenario was much less common. From what I recall most serious buyers accepted a higher counter-offer and almost always would eventually do their original offer but those good days are long gone :xf.frown:
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  14. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Side note I've set the prices correctly per tier, and in less than 24 hours got an $199 sale on the market priced tier.

    Great result.
     

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