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Impact of the URS and Unlimited Fee Increases for Registrants in .ORG/BIZ/INFO/ASIA

Labeled as information in Domain Industry News started by GeorgeK, Apr 10, 2019.

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  1. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Thanks George, the http”s”was missing but found them on their site. I had no idea of these glaring examples of incompetence, if you posted these before on the URS discussion, I never saw them.
    https://www.adrforum.com/domain-dispute/search-decisions

    https://www.adrforum.com/DomainDecisions/1815095D.htm

    “The Examiner finds that the disputed domain name was registered and is being used in bad faith. The disputed domain name reverts to a site which informs the user that “This site can’t be located.” Such passive use of the domain name in dispute supports a finding of the requisite bad faith.”

    So this examiner states that non usage is “bad faith”!!!
    No DNS evidence is presented to determine it was parked, any archive.org links, etc, if it was blocked by a firewall in China, etc. simply a suspension.

    https://www.adrforum.com/DomainDecisions/1785973D.htm

    “Respondent has registered or acquired the disputed domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting or otherwise transferring the disputed domain name registration to the Complainant who is the owner of the trademark or to a competitor of that Complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of documented out-of pocket costs directly related to the disputed domain name; or


    b. Respondent has registered the disputed domain name in order to prevent the trademark holder or service mark from reflecting the trademark in a corresponding domain name, provided that Respondent has engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or


    c. Respondent registered the disputed domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or


    d. By using the disputed domain name Respondent has intentionally attempted to attract for commercial gain, Internet users to Respondent’s web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the Complainant’s trademark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of Respondent’s web site or location or of a product or service on that web site or location.

    Complainant asserts that the disputed domain name was registered in bad faith since Respondent is not making active use of the disputed domain name.”

    So non usage, according to the ADR the act of investing in LLL domain names is bad faith. Isn’t this decision like going back in time 20 years for the earliest cybersquatting like disputes?
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, they're totally misinterpreting the "passive holding" doctrine, expanding it in favour of TM interests. Passive holding is only supposed to apply if there's no conceivable good faith usage. See:

    https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/search/overview3.0/#item33

     
  3. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    When historically back in time was the ADR allowed to arbitrate domains? I thought they were experienced, or are not really impartial since they are all TM lawyers from the “same clubs”? Or some variation of that. Are there any truly independent legal “forums” for resolving domain disputes?
    I know you objected to the newest WIPO guy being nominated on the RPM, he was voted in, but not sure the true reason (assume he is TM lawyer too?) and if there is perhaps something about that whole incident that might be something you can share? I didn’t understand the whole picture. Or... If you don’t want to comment, I understand. The history you know from your years of experience of studying the UDRP process, politics, etc. might be a subject too for your blog, just an idea.
     
  4. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    UDRP began in 1999, see the history at:

    https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/schedule-2012-02-25-en

    Courts are neutral.

    I didn't believe Brian Beckham of WIPO would be a neutral chair, so that's why I voted against him being a chair in the RPM PDP working group. The fact that WIPO would not list various UDRP-related court cases, even when directly asked:

    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2018-April/002940.html
    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2018-May/003058.html
    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2018-May/003059.html

    was consistent with that lack of neutrality. Later, WIPO retaliated by taking down my company's court case from their site!

    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-rpm-wg/2018-June/003147.html
     
  5. mwzd

    mwzd Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It takes 5 minutes to voice your objection and anyone can do so, if everyone here on NP just took the time, it might make things tougher for ICANN to brush this under the table.

    If you want to object to .ORG price increases, comment here-
    https://www.icann.org/public-comments/org-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

    If you want to object to .INFO price increases, comment here-
    https://www.icann.org/public-comments/info-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

    If you want to object to .BIZ price increases, comment here-
    https://www.icann.org/public-comments/biz-renewal-2019-04-03-en/mail_form


    Actually all these actions seem to be paving a way for exactly that. Soon ALL gTLDs & sTLDs will have NO PRICE CAPS. Is that what you want? Think we've all seen the way "too big to fail" issues have gone in the past.
     
  6. JayT

    JayT Restricted (85-100%)

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    Raising prices results in many drops and then they hope other people renew them for more, but with 1000's of newtld, no one is going to pay more for some idiot raising prices past what they already are.

    The success of any start-up past a couple years is rare. A lot of people don't even want to pay $10 for a domain renewal. There's already too much distribution in these extensions to raise prices without upsetting a lot of people.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  7. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Thanks for posting that, it seems this forum rarely has people participating in the Domain Rights protection, at least publicly on the forum. If they are silent, great.

    Meanwhile simultaneously, I find it quite interesting that a dumb thread like Dustie gains attention, nothing can be done but between 4 parties. Op titles the thread slamming Godaddy since someone bought her misspelled domain name, not even worth $500, obviously she can't figure out if she wants to sell it or buy an .Art, and has made mistakes in listing it for sale, pushes the wrong button for pricing, and then NP members chime in with 512 replies and 17493 views and attention is given to this dumb thread. So far, dumb thread of the year.
    https://www.namepros.com/threads/resolved-domain-name-stolen-a-horrible-story-and-a-warning.1132707/

    Meanwhile critical problems of RPM at ICANN, Free speech, domaining rights (Australia), pricing increases like the above, etc. Important business related issues like this one appear to get ignored. Maybe nobody cares.

    This thread in contrast has 728 views and effects anyone who invests in .ORG domains especially.
     
  8. Nat Cohen

    Nat Cohen Established Member ICA PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Great to see this discussion here on the proposal to allow PIR to charge whatever it wants for .org renewals.

    The ICA has been active on this. Earlier today we created an easy-to-use form to help you submit comments on the proposed .org renewal to ICANN. In a few seconds you can have a customized comment letter submitted-

    https://www.internetcommerce.org/say-no-to-price-increases-on-org-domains/
    https://www.internetcommerce.org/comment-org/

    I'd encourage you all to submit comments. Overwhelming public opposition can make a difference.

    George earlier provided a link to the ICA's comment letter to ICANN opposing the .org renewal-

    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comm.../ICACommenton.orgPricing-April102019-0001.pdf

    Zak Muscovitch, the ICA General Counsel, discussed the issue in depth during the ICA's first ever public policy webcast - https://www.domainsherpa.com/ica-2019q1/

    Earlier today my first ever CircleID article went live, which gives my reasons for opposing the .org renewal - http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190...tions_for_eliminating_caps_on_legacy_domains/

    It is strange times when ICANN staff think it is a great idea to let a registry, that doesn't even provide the registry services themselves, the right to hold a non-profit's online brand hostage and to force the non-profit to pay whatever ransom is demanded for the right to continue to use its own domain.
     
  9. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Nat, as a fellow ICA member I am appreciative of your efforts.

    The form makes it extremely easy to submit a comment.
    You can also add your own comments as well.

    I submitted a comment earlier today.

    You can read more comments here -
    https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-org-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/thread.html

    I would suggest anyone who is a domain investor, or just domain registrant in general, leave a comment on this.

    ICANN is governed by a bottom up, consensus-driven multistakeholder model

    They have abandoned registrants' rights and are only interested in giving handouts to big business. They are not interested in any protections for the millions of domain registrants.

    This is not acceptable for a "public benefit" organization with many stakeholders.
    Domain registrants will have no say, and will be at the complete mercy and whims of the registry.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  10. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Nice article Nat. Good examples with the RedCross and Electric companies too.
     
  11. mwzd

    mwzd Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Very well written Nat, thank you for explaining the issue so succinctly.

    This would make sense, you'll probably have registries willing to operate these legacy gTLDs for pennies on the dollar.

    A no brainer, but that still doesn't address the main issue, why allow it in the first place?
     
  12. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I appreciate all the people who have submitted comments. The comments have really flooded in over the last 24 hours.

    ICANN - Current Comments

    It needs to be made clear to ICANN that giving a monopoly (legacy extension) the ability to charge unlimited prices is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated. There is absolutely no defense that is for the "public benefit".

    They are starting with .ORG, but .COM/NET are likely targets down the road.

    The deadline for comments is APRIL 29, 2019.

    The more comments the better.

    Thanks,
    Brad
     
  13. eurorealtor

    eurorealtor okre.com VIP

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    Thanks all for the links. Made it much easier to send the comment!
     
  14. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  15. alcy

    alcy Top Member VIP

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    got it too

    ive little care for these extensions though wouldnt mind hanging on to few names in each..

    does anyone here know if all this pertains to new regs...renewals...transfers?

    i know some people own tons of say 3l.org..or other names with value...so i cant really imagine they suddenly charge them 1k per yr to renew/transfer..
     
  16. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  17. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Will GoDaddy, the largest registrar, do the same? Asking their customers to comment may be the only way...
    @Joe Styler , @Paul Nicks - what do you think? Yes, it is all politics, but sometimes the history repeats itself.

    Here is the history:

    "GM of Domains Mike McLaughlin stated:

    We have stopped registering or transferring Uniregistry domain names into our system. The dramatic price hike Uniregistry announced left us no choice. Until we can assess the impact on our current and potential customers, we have stopped new registrations.

    GoDaddy works to deliver a great customer experience. We now have customers who will be paying up to 3,000 percent more for their renewal. That’s an extremely poor customer experience and does not reflect well on the domain name industry in general.

    GoDaddy will continue to support our current customers who have Uniregistry registered domain names."

    (quote end).
    The above quote speaks for itself. It is from 2017 (Uniregistry price increase). It was not easy for GD to explain such things to their customers.

    Prevention Is Better Than Cure.

    GoDaddy should really send the similar text to what NameCheap just mailed out, to all their org/info/biz registrants...
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  18. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    That is good to see. GoDaddy really needs to take a stance on this as well.
    They could be as effected as everyone else.

    If this is successful with .ORG, you know they are coming after .COM next.

    GoDaddy has spent millions & millions buying massive domain portfolios from people like Michael Berkens and others. What would happen to that model if their holding costs increased dramatically?

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  19. Domainstore

    Domainstore Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    TO EVERYBODY ON NAMEPROS : PLEASE DO THE NECESSARY !!!!!!
    Act now by sending your comments to ICANN before April 29, 2019 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    HERE ===>
    https://www.icann.org/public-comments#open-public


    (And Sign Up to ICANN-make an account) : So you get the emails the guys above got, to be ready when something's happening).

    REACTIONS CAN GO TO =>
    [email protected]

    Kind regrds to everyone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  20. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There are over 650+ comments now. I have read a couple hundred and have not seen one that is positive towards the ICANN proposal.

    The comments are also coming from a very diverse group of people from small end users, companies, organizations, charities, groups, investors, and more.

    It seems like there is strong consensus that this policy is a bad one for the millions of domain registrants.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2019
  21. mwzd

    mwzd Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm amazed at how ICANN is trying to justify this as a good thing!

    And you can be rest assured they're coming after .com/.net next if this gets passed.

    Wonder if ICANN will even take these comments under consideration - commercial interests rather than the greater good seem to be the driving force behind it now.
     
  22. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    When I just checked there were nearly 1700 comments now.

    Brad
     
  23. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  24. GeorgeK

    GeorgeK Leap.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The rate of comment submissions seems to actually be accelerating! Up to 2046 now for .org. This might top 5,000 by Monday. I've only read about 800 of them, so far.

    I think this demonstrates why ICANN doesn't attempt much outreach on important issues. The more that registrants have awareness and education, the greater the chance that ICANN's agenda is blocked.

    Indeed, ICANN is trying to "evolve" the multistakeholder model:

    https://www.icann.org/public-comments/evolving-multistakeholder-model-2019-04-25-en

    That's another way of saying "we want to rewrite the rules, to shut out the public even more, so we can pursue our agenda without criticism or accountability."

    Great work by Nat, Zak, NameCheap and others who've raised awareness.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  25. eternaldomains

    eternaldomains Established Member

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    @Eric Lyon and/or other relevant mods, I'm requesting that this matter be publicized to all NP members if possible. I know I'm a nobody here requesting such a huge thing, but isn't this a matter that will affect everyone here on NP and elsewhere as well? If either one of the TLDs (.org, .info, .biz, or .asia) were to be successfully corrupted by these new changes then .com (and all other TLDs) will also follow suit since the corrupted TLD will be used as a precedent/excuse/reason/"evidence" and make it easier to corrupt .com and all other TLDs. This kind of thing happens in the law courts all the time.

    I only started knowing about this matter when I visited Namebio today.

    @mwzd no comment link for .asia?

    I got a few more ideas in case anyone is still reading this thread, for those who may have the funds or the means to do it:

    1) send email blast to as many owners of the affected TLDs informing about this issue.
    2) have as many domain owners living near ICANN send angry snail mails to ICANN (since it's getting close to the end date, international express snail mails will probably arrive too late). I'm sure flooding their physical mailboxes with angry mails will give at least some impact to them.
     

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