information Impact of the URS and Unlimited Fee Increases for Registrants in .ORG/BIZ/INFO/ASIA

[GeorgeK]

I had a discussion today with several members of the ICANN At-Large community about the changes in the proposed .org, .info, .biz and .asia contracts, namely the imposition of the URS, and the unlimited fee increases. It was recorded, so I hope you find it educational:

https://freespeech.com/2019/04/10/i...ses-for-registrants-in-org-info-biz-and-asia/

There are upcoming comment periods, so hopefully folks will submit comments to ICANN opposing these changes.

 

[DomainRecap]

Amusing how everything started going south once ICANN was freed of all US oversight and became a law unto itself.

People who live in North America think the system is corrupt, but really have no idea how insanely corrupt the rest of the world really is. I've lived in Asia and Europe, and payoffs, bribery and graft are truly a way of life there, from doing business to simply crossing the border - everyone has their hand out and virtually all business deals or contracts are determined with a big payoff.

It is really no coincidence the minute US oversight ends, that all these "sweetheart deals" start becoming standard practice. It's what happens when corporations start driving truckloads of money to those in a position to help them.

 

[mwzd]

It takes 5 minutes to voice your objection and anyone can do so, if everyone here on NP just took the time, it might make things tougher for ICANN to brush this under the table.

If you want to object to .ORG price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/org-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .INFO price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/info-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .BIZ price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/biz-renewal-2019-04-03-en/mail_form

seriously, I don't see them touching .com in this dirty way.

Actually all these actions seem to be paving a way for exactly that. Soon ALL gTLDs & sTLDs will have NO PRICE CAPS. Is that what you want? Think we've all seen the way "too big to fail" issues have gone in the past.

 

[Nat Cohen]

Great to see this discussion here on the proposal to allow PIR to charge whatever it wants for .org renewals.

The ICA has been active on this. Earlier today we created an easy-to-use form to help you submit comments on the proposed .org renewal to ICANN. In a few seconds you can have a customized comment letter submitted-

https://www.internetcommerce.org/say-no-to-price-increases-on-org-domains/
https://www.internetcommerce.org/comment-org/

I'd encourage you all to submit comments. Overwhelming public opposition can make a difference.

George earlier provided a link to the ICA's comment letter to ICANN opposing the .org renewal-

https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comm.../ICACommenton.orgPricing-April102019-0001.pdf

Zak Muscovitch, the ICA General Counsel, discussed the issue in depth during the ICA's first ever public policy webcast - https://www.domainsherpa.com/ica-2019q1/

Earlier today my first ever CircleID article went live, which gives my reasons for opposing the .org renewal - http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190...tions_for_eliminating_caps_on_legacy_domains/

It is strange times when ICANN staff think it is a great idea to let a registry, that doesn't even provide the registry services themselves, the right to hold a non-profit's online brand hostage and to force the non-profit to pay whatever ransom is demanded for the right to continue to use its own domain.

 

[offthehandle]

Dot-Org was already priced higher vs .com and now it can get even more negative. In the past I loved dot-org but no more,

In addition I have noticed type-ins, traffic and sale inquiries to my .org's have declined considerably over past few years so I was thinking about non-auto renewals even before this news. I plan to let many .org's expire.

Just think, what might happen with the .com and .net extensions? Upon the next 6 year contract renewal. Say Verisign squawks loud enough.

ICANN wants to “normalize” .org and other legacy tlds with the new gtlds. So, just suppose Verisign decides to push and push to do the same and use the resale value pricing model and raise all .com and .net dictionary words and LLL according to some new individualized and arbitrary value? Then Verisign being the public company they are, make shareholders happy (maybe) that might be a huge windfall to take all secondary market incentives away especially for large portfolios and speculation. Reverse the thinking and I know it sounds draconian, but this .org change should shed light on the future if it is a possibility.

 

[GeorgeK]

Does this mean renewal rates for pre-existing registrations are capped?

No, it doesn't. That language you refer to just means that existing registrants can't be charged a different renewal fee than everyone else (differential/tiered/variable pricing) or be retroactively deemed a "premium" domain name. If .org/biz/info/asia start to classify deleted domains as "premium", then they can be charged a different renewal price than "ordinary" domains (just like new gTLDs). So, if .org went from $10/yr to $50/yr, that would be allowed.

ICANN's language is very misleading, because the "base registry agreement" they're talking about is the one for new gTLDs, without referencing the actual current registry agreements (which were for "legacy" gTLDs like com/net/org, etc.).

 

[Kate]

Icann a good example of a supervisory body captured by the industry it is supposed to regulate.
But they are making a living on our money. And right now they are biting the hand that feeds them.

I don't understand how they can justify such plans when the legacy TLD registries enjoy monopolies and they don't even own the extensions they operate. They are merely the caretakers. This is daylight robbery.

In light of the above, I'm considering joining ICA Internet Commerce Association.... Even a small contribution may help to fight better. I did not yet join before just because I would prefer not to associate myself with at least one current corporate member and at least 2 current individual members in any way...

I am in the same situation as well.

 

[GeorgeK]

The YouTube video didn't capture the chat in the Zoom video. Here are some background links:

Questioniable URS decisions:

bcg.top -- http://www.adrforum.com/domaindecisions/1815095D.htm
BCG.app: http://www.adrforum.com/domaindecisions/1785973D.htm

List of Proposals to Change the URS (14 of them from me, out of 33)

https://community.icann.org/display/RARPMRIAGPWG/URS+Proposals
(click on the Individual member proposals tab, to see the ones proposed by individual members, rather than the subteam proposals that show up by default; ICANN's website is having technical problems at this time, so one might need to check back later)

Fear Mongering About New gTLDs before the US Senate (to justify the URS, etc.)

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112shrg74251/html/CHRG-112shrg74251.htm

 

[GeorgeK]

ICA wrote a letter on this issue, see:

https://www.internetcommerce.org/ic...oposed-renewal-of-the-org-registry-agreement/

 

[tonyk2000]

In light of the above, I'm considering joining ICA Internet Commerce Association.... Even a small contribution may help to fight better. I did not yet join before just because I would prefer not to associate myself with at least one current corporate member and at least 2 current individual members in any way... members list is public and published on the website, and (a matter of personal and business preferences) I do _not_ want to see my name or my company name even mentioned together with these ~3 names of industry participants on the same page, in the same list.
But, in current situation, it might be better to forget about these preferences.

 

[offthehandle]

In light of the above, I'm considering joining ICA Internet Commerce Association.... Even a small contribution may help to fight better. I did not yet join before just because I would prefer not to associate myself with at least one current corporate member and at least 2 current individual members in any way... members list is public and published on the website, and (a matter of personal and business preference) I do _not_ want to see my name or my company name even mentioned together with these ~3 names of industry participants on the same page, in the same list.
But, in current situation, it might be better to forget about these preferences.

In addition, you might consider joining the ICANN RPM working group, its free and even if its only as a observer. It will open your eyes on the situation first hand to how the Trademark lawyers work. Observers dont need to disclose all details you might be concerned with. However to post, you need to provide more details.

https://www.namepros.com/threads/ic...ge-domain-owners-rights.1048344/#post-6420973

 

[offthehandle]

Interesting. So far I've seen them just abusing UDRP process...I also somewhat enjoyed "fighting" to save some of my domains, never attacked the *complainants' representatives* directly in my responses, but it was crystal clear that it were _they_ who submitted abusive nonsense complaints for dictionary domains, and/or without valid TMs and the like... the listed Complainants were not necessary 100% aware of how their lawyers acted.

It would however make sense not to reform existing UDRP policy in any aspect. Unfortunately, this may also happen if the industry remains silent (or busy with other things that are less relevant today)

I need to dig up some example RPM exchanges to post for everyone to see. Its quite abit of work to plow throw it all, then everyone can judge for themselves. That I believe is what George will be doing in his blog. Until you see how much work he has contributed, only then one can understand his contribution to the Domain Investor side of advocacy.

Did you listen to video yesterday on FreeSpeech.com that @GeorgeK posted? He cited how BCG.top registered in China and unrelated and another BCG.whatever were simply taken away via the URS as the Boston Consulting Group felt the fact they were entitled to those 3 letters. Stuff like that is ridiculous. Also the fact that URS should be in the language of registrant.

 

[bmugford]

Nat, as a fellow ICA member I am appreciative of your efforts.

The form makes it extremely easy to submit a comment.
You can also add your own comments as well.

I submitted a comment earlier today.

You can read more comments here -
https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-org-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/thread.html

I would suggest anyone who is a domain investor, or just domain registrant in general, leave a comment on this.

ICANN is governed by a bottom up, consensus-driven multistakeholder model

They have abandoned registrants' rights and are only interested in giving handouts to big business. They are not interested in any protections for the millions of domain registrants.

This is not acceptable for a "public benefit" organization with many stakeholders.
Domain registrants will have no say, and will be at the complete mercy and whims of the registry.

Brad

 

[GeorgeK]

Here's what I submitted to ICANN today:

https://freespeech.com/2019/04/29/m...osed-org-info-biz-and-asia-contract-renewals/

regarding the proposed contract renewals.

 

[offthehandle]

“Pricing for Domain Name Registrations and Registry Services (Section 2.10 of the .org renewal agreement): In alignment with the base registry agreement, the price cap provisions in the current .org agreement, which limited the price of registrations and allowable price increases for registrations, are removed from the .org renewal agreement. Protections for existing registrants will remain in place, in line with the base registry agreement. This change will not only allow the .org renewal agreement to better conform with the base registry agreement, but also takes into consideration the maturation of the domain name market and the goal of treating the Registry Operator equitably with registry operators of new gTLDs and other legacy gTLDs utilizing the base registry agreement.”

https://www.icann.org/public-comments/org-renewal-2019-03-18-en

So, .org contract expires in a June, and all .org renewal prices can be increased arbitrarily and follow the .TV or .Whatever pricing.

 

[tonyk2000]

It is in the best interest of Verisign as dot com registry. I would not be surprised if it was Verisign who lobbied this initiative. They already managed to secure their .com contract to be de-facto renewed forever, even though number of parties expessed interest and willingness to run .com registry cheaper (like GoDaddy under Bob Parsons ownership, he promised to run the registry for $2 per domain per year if I am not mistaken). Of course in the name of internet stability, no doubts. Now, with unlimited fees for .org and .info - .com will be the next. We all may need to start looking for new jobs, and soon - due to random/high registration and renewal .com prices

 

[Bob Hawkes]

The existing cap already allows (allowed) up to 10% per annum increases, which seem pretty substantial. If they want to create a level playing field with the new registries (and I do agree with those who point out that there are important differences - the registries managing com/net/org etc. were presented with existing strong TLDs whereas the new had to compete and create new ones), but if ICANN decide they need the same rules it should be that ALL registries have a 10% per annum cap on renewal price increases.
JMHO.
Bob

 

[offthehandle]

It takes 5 minutes to voice your objection and anyone can do so, if everyone here on NP just took the time, it might make things tougher for ICANN to brush this under the table.

If you want to object to .ORG price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/org-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .INFO price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/info-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .BIZ price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/biz-renewal-2019-04-03-en/mail_form

Thanks for posting that, it seems this forum rarely has people participating in the Domain Rights protection, at least publicly on the forum. If they are silent, great.

Meanwhile simultaneously, I find it quite interesting that a dumb thread like Dustie gains attention, nothing can be done but between 4 parties. Op titles the thread slamming Godaddy since someone bought her misspelled domain name, not even worth $500, obviously she can't figure out if she wants to sell it or buy an .Art, and has made mistakes in listing it for sale, pushes the wrong button for pricing, and then NP members chime in with 512 replies and 17493 views and attention is given to this dumb thread. So far, dumb thread of the year.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/resolved-domain-name-stolen-a-horrible-story-and-a-warning.1132707/

Meanwhile critical problems of RPM at ICANN, Free speech, domaining rights (Australia), pricing increases like the above, etc. Important business related issues like this one appear to get ignored. Maybe nobody cares.

This thread in contrast has 728 views and effects anyone who invests in .ORG domains especially.

 

[bmugford]

I appreciate all the people who have submitted comments. The comments have really flooded in over the last 24 hours.

ICANN - Current Comments

It needs to be made clear to ICANN that giving a monopoly (legacy extension) the ability to charge unlimited prices is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated. There is absolutely no defense that is for the "public benefit".

They are starting with .ORG, but .COM/NET are likely targets down the road.

The deadline for comments is APRIL 29, 2019.

The more comments the better.

Thanks,
Brad

 

[bmugford]

I published an article on LinkedIn, if any one wants to read or share it.

LinkedIn Article - Say “No” to Unlimited Price Increases on .Org Domains

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Kudos to NameCheap for helping to raise awareness:

https://www.namecheap.com/blog/keep-domain-prices-in-check/

That is good to see. GoDaddy really needs to take a stance on this as well.
They could be as effected as everyone else.

If this is successful with .ORG, you know they are coming after .COM next.

GoDaddy has spent millions & millions buying massive domain portfolios from people like Michael Berkens and others. What would happen to that model if their holding costs increased dramatically?

Brad

 

[GeorgeK]

Almost 1800 now for .org: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-org-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/date.html

Also don't forget the .info, .biz and .asia ones:

.INFO: 140+ https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-info-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/date.html

.BIZ: nearly 100: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-biz-renewal-03apr19/2019q2/date.html

.ASIA: just a trickle: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-asia-renewal-27mar19/2019q2/date.html

 

[GeorgeK]

The rate of comment submissions seems to actually be accelerating! Up to 2046 now for .org. This might top 5,000 by Monday. I've only read about 800 of them, so far.

I think this demonstrates why ICANN doesn't attempt much outreach on important issues. The more that registrants have awareness and education, the greater the chance that ICANN's agenda is blocked.

Indeed, ICANN is trying to "evolve" the multistakeholder model:

https://www.icann.org/public-comments/evolving-multistakeholder-model-2019-04-25-en

That's another way of saying "we want to rewrite the rules, to shut out the public even more, so we can pursue our agenda without criticism or accountability."

Great work by Nat, Zak, NameCheap and others who've raised awareness.

 

[eternaldomains]

It takes 5 minutes to voice your objection and anyone can do so, if everyone here on NP just took the time, it might make things tougher for ICANN to brush this under the table.

If you want to object to .ORG price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/org-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .INFO price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/info-renewal-2019-03-18-en/mail_form

If you want to object to .BIZ price increases, comment here-
https://www.icann.org/public-comments/biz-renewal-2019-04-03-en/mail_form



Actually all these actions seem to be paving a way for exactly that. Soon ALL gTLDs & sTLDs will have NO PRICE CAPS. Is that what you want? Think we've all seen the way "too big to fail" issues have gone in the past.

Thanks for posting that, it seems this forum rarely has people participating in the Domain Rights protection, at least publicly on the forum. If they are silent, great.

Meanwhile simultaneously, I find it quite interesting that a dumb thread like Dustie gains attention, nothing can be done but between 4 parties. Op titles the thread slamming Godaddy since someone bought her misspelled domain name, not even worth $500, obviously she can't figure out if she wants to sell it or buy an .Art, and has made mistakes in listing it for sale, pushes the wrong button for pricing, and then NP members chime in with 512 replies and 17493 views and attention is given to this dumb thread. So far, dumb thread of the year.
https://www.namepros.com/threads/resolved-domain-name-stolen-a-horrible-story-and-a-warning.1132707/

Meanwhile critical problems of RPM at ICANN, Free speech, domaining rights (Australia), pricing increases like the above, etc. Important business related issues like this one appear to get ignored. Maybe nobody cares.

This thread in contrast has 728 views and effects anyone who invests in .ORG domains especially.

Great to see this discussion here on the proposal to allow PIR to charge whatever it wants for .org renewals.

The ICA has been active on this. Earlier today we created an easy-to-use form to help you submit comments on the proposed .org renewal to ICANN. In a few seconds you can have a customized comment letter submitted-

https://www.internetcommerce.org/say-no-to-price-increases-on-org-domains/
https://www.internetcommerce.org/comment-org/

I'd encourage you all to submit comments. Overwhelming public opposition can make a difference.

George earlier provided a link to the ICA's comment letter to ICANN opposing the .org renewal-

https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comm.../ICACommenton.orgPricing-April102019-0001.pdf

Zak Muscovitch, the ICA General Counsel, discussed the issue in depth during the ICA's first ever public policy webcast - https://www.domainsherpa.com/ica-2019q1/

Earlier today my first ever CircleID article went live, which gives my reasons for opposing the .org renewal - http://www.circleid.com/posts/20190...tions_for_eliminating_caps_on_legacy_domains/

It is strange times when ICANN staff think it is a great idea to let a registry, that doesn't even provide the registry services themselves, the right to hold a non-profit's online brand hostage and to force the non-profit to pay whatever ransom is demanded for the right to continue to use its own domain.

If this is successful with .ORG, you know they are coming after .COM next.

Almost 1800 now for .org: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-org-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/date.html

Also don't forget the .info, .biz and .asia ones:

.INFO: 140+ https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-info-renewal-18mar19/2019q2/date.html

.BIZ: nearly 100: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-biz-renewal-03apr19/2019q2/date.html

.ASIA: just a trickle: https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-asia-renewal-27mar19/2019q2/date.html

@Eric Lyon and/or other relevant mods, I'm requesting that this matter be publicized to all NP members if possible. I know I'm a nobody here requesting such a huge thing, but isn't this a matter that will affect everyone here on NP and elsewhere as well? If either one of the TLDs (.org, .info, .biz, or .asia) were to be successfully corrupted by these new changes then .com (and all other TLDs) will also follow suit since the corrupted TLD will be used as a precedent/excuse/reason/"evidence" and make it easier to corrupt .com and all other TLDs. This kind of thing happens in the law courts all the time.

I only started knowing about this matter when I visited Namebio today.

@mwzd no comment link for .asia?

I got a few more ideas in case anyone is still reading this thread, for those who may have the funds or the means to do it:

1) send email blast to as many owners of the affected TLDs informing about this issue.
2) have as many domain owners living near ICANN send angry snail mails to ICANN (since it's getting close to the end date, international express snail mails will probably arrive too late). I'm sure flooding their physical mailboxes with angry mails will give at least some impact to them.

 

[alcy]

raising reg prices for dead or dyign extensions like info biz org asia net etc... will mean nothing to most domainers.. and in fact will be good thing for newer domainers who won't waste money on those things..

but doign this to .com will make a lot of people very unhappy... some important people too... who really like their "job"... so I would expect it would create way more problems for the decision makers than it woudl solve..

seriously, I don't see them touching .com in this dirty way.