tips I'm really happy to pay 20% or even 30% commission to good platforms. Here's why.

[twiki]

I just got a comment today, that 30% SquadHelp commission is an insane amount. (It's not the first time I get such a comment though). And I know it's a judgement error, so here's my response and some advice for other NP members here.

In domaining, there is a mindset of scarcity, and also a mindset of abundance. I choose the latter. Why? Because it's the only one that works. And in business in general.

When someone tells me that 20% commission (Afternic) is too much, or 30% at SquadHelp, well, I know this is a actually a fair percentage. That's also why it is accepted by sellers. And here's the reason.

I don't care how much the other guy gets. What I care about is, how much I am left with. And what do I get out of it. So should you.

This sale I just got, for A/d/a/p/t/y/v/e/ .com would probably have never been made outside of SH as this is a brandable. Unless listed at SH or another brandable marketplace with a lot of traffic, chances would have been nil. Why? Because with Afternic network or Sedo, if your domain is not a searchable one (this isn't), chances are nobody will ever buy the domain. Also the landers don't generally help at all because such domains don't get search engine traffic. They're in a black zone, unless brought to light by a brandable marketplace.

So I just got 70% of the $2299, instead of 100% of nothing.

The same thing applies with Afternic fees which are the highest in the non-brandable marketplaces zone.

I pay 20% at Afternic, and less than 10% elsewhere (e.g. 9% at Dan). Yet all my landers are currently pointing either at Afternic (20% commission; searchables) and some at SH (30%; brandables). Why? Because this brings me the most money overall. Even after deducting all those extra % fees.

With NS5/NS6 at Afternic , that GoDaddy name + a phone where anybody can call means I get a LOT of good sales which otherwise won't be accomplished. The GD name brings trust; many domain buyers are quite wary of online buys.

Also the phone number improve conversions a lot. This is why 20% commission here actually means more money in the pocket for me, rather than say 9% or 10% at another platform where I only get a lander sale, but the buyer never heard of that platform and also there is no phone to call. Side note Afternic brokers are also very good = more sales.

Now with SH what I get is an entire tier of domain sales that would never have existed. (Or with any other brandable marketplace you'd like). SH has a lot of AI and merchandising behind their platform; stats; category based sales; great logo designers; classification experts bringing best categories and descriptions for your domain; contests pushing your domain sales and more. Plus instant support.

All this costs money, much more than yet another lander. But it brings sales - ton of extra sales, and high value sales for domains because of all that merchandising. That's why it is worth it. I can for example double my sales for the same portfolio size, by paying a measly 10% extra. That's quite cheap if you do the math. Even if I get just one more sale at each say 7-8 domains sold elsewhere, it IS worth it. It means profit.

Also, about scarcity.

I've seen a lot of people losing in this business because they're not flexible enough, they value their domains too much or are too attached to them. Al these choices are bad ones.

If you're not willing to give out another 10% of your commission in exchange for far better sales, you're losing, not winning this game.

Because in domaining the most important factor is sales ratio. I'm gonna say this again, just to make sure you understand it. In domaining, the most important factor is sales ratio. Keep this in mind. Do everything you can to improve that factor. Do the math. Your platform choice is a very important factor that can make the difference between success and failure with domain selling.

Say a given platform like Afternic has 10% more commission. But if, again, they bring 20% more sales, you're in profit because overall you sold more and you're left with more money. Use the difference to buy a few more great names, or - why not? Pocket the profit and spend it as you'd like.

This is why you should always test and measure such things. Math on paper.

And yet another thing about scarcity:

"I'm selling too many of my names and too much % goes to others" etc. Many inexperienced domainers apply this kind of scarcity thinking to their names. Well - did you ever do the math properly? Did you A/B test platforms? Is it good to choose selling LESS names instead of giving out a larger % but for much more sales, which, in turn, will leave you with far more in the pocket?

What many less experienced domainers also forget, is that domain sales ratio usually ranges at 1...2% per year in case of 4-fig domains for example which make the bulk of the market. This means that your feeling of "giving out too may of your names or too much %" is just... a scarcity mindset that actually works against you.

That means, say in one year if you have 100 names and sold 2, you have 98 domains. And you might have made some money, or not - because you have to pay for renewal of 98 names, which costs a lot (98x$10 = $980 for example). But if you sold 4 names, your profit skyrockets because you have DOUBLED your income, and all those extra sales will be 100% profit. And you still have 96 names left to sell, which means, you sold 2% of your portfolio for a multiple-fold profit. With the extra profit you got, you can easily pay for a few more names to cover the few you sold AND still have a lot more in your pocket.

Those extra SH sales will bring me at least a solid extra 5-fig over this year. That's why I use Afternic, SH and would use any other decent but perhaps high priced marketplace. Because without them, overall I'd be at a loss.

Do the math, guys. Always do the math. And avoid the scarcity mindset.

Happy domaining!

 

[karmaco]

This post is incredibly condescending from a very new domainer imo. You have way more to learn than you think.


Its not an “error in judment” if we don’t want to greatly overpay on commission and or give our domains away.


Just because lower tier pricing is your bread and butter doesn’t mean a different way is wrong. That somehow escapes you.

There is a distinction between being attached to your domains and knowing their worth. They are not the same.


As far as your sale, the domain was underpriced (typical of SH) and yes you could have sold it elsewhere. SH is not the second coming of Jesus.


Using a Y in the place of an I is a very popular tactic when the correct spelling is out of budget and end users and companies are capable of thinking of that - not just us.


Stop preaching that your way is right and every other way is wrong. You do that alot.

 

[Future Sensors]

This being said, I'm probably going to end all my posts with this one.

I don't want you to stop. Your postings are thought provoking. Domainers are constantly navigating between different strategies and they can become successful in several ways.

Dear @twiki (I like your nickname). Writing down your thoughts helps yourself and others in balancing different strategies. Even for domainers who are already familiar with them, it is nice to see how others give substance to their entrepreneurship. Domainers with larger portfolios will most often already apply several strategies at the same time. Thanks for your posts thus far, and I look forward to your next adventures.

 

[twiki]

This post is incredibly condescending from a very new domainer imo. You have way more to learn than you think.


Its not an “error in judment” if we don’t want to greatly overpay on commission and or give our domains away.


Just because lower tier pricing is your bread and butter doesn’t mean a different way is wrong. That somehow escapes you.

There is a distinction between being attached to your domains and knowing their worth. They are not the same.


As far as your sale, the domain was underpriced (typical of SH) and yes you could have sold it elsewhere. SH is not the second coming of Jesus.


Using a Y in the place of an I is a very popular tactic when the correct spelling is out of budget and end users and companies are capable of thinking of that - not just us.


Stop preaching that your way is right and every other way is wrong. You do that alot.

Well I never intended to be condescending. In fact I've edited stuff so it doesn't appear as such. But I guess it comes across like that, at least. For that I apologize to whoever felt it.

I'm always happy to get criticism, if well intended and or accurate.

But I never said my way is right and all others are wrong. I've only pointed out some things that are often done and do not bring results for the reasons aforementioned. There is no single way in domaining though.

In fact I have to thank you for this comment because it just brings me a much more needed clarity in some direction that is difficult to explain though. But anyway it helps.

About price - just as you think my name is underpriced, I think your evaluation is overpriced. But as you just said, you're not the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong, including me.

There is no single price for one domain. I know that this domain could have been sold for much more. But for me what matters is time x revenue, and each domain can be sold by x times more if you wait y more time. And I've tested my names long enough to know exactly how to price and sell - my names, not yours, not everyone else's.

So nobody is either 100% right or 100% wrong.

"Domain worth" is something so subjective, and so much influenced by countless factors that is difficult to grasp. I'm a discount domainer, while I can safely assume by your answer that you're a retail domainer. None of these approaches are the final answer.

I assume you however you dislike my style and pricing because it goes much against your own, I can definitely understand that. And you assume I would not be able to price it where it should be (much higher) because I don't know that. Well that assumption, and your whole coment is, I must say, is condescending.

But it's alright. Again nobody is 100% right or wrong. Nor I am upset, or should someone be, for someone other sharing their thoughts and ideas in an effort not to be condescending, but rather to help.

This being said, I'm probably going to end all my posts with this one.

I like sharing what I've found and write on various subjects, be it right or wrong. But if this is the impact, it is probably time for me to stop writing completely.

Thanks for that as well, and no, I'm not condescending while saying this. It is what it is.

 

[freety85]

@twiki first off, congrats on the sale. Awesome name, may have been sold elsewhere or may not. Maybe a bit underpriced, but this is money in the bank you will reinvest intelligently as you did before. In this business you never know where sales come from, so by diversifying your portfolio is never a bad thing.

On the the other side I would like to later read from your experience more about SH when you move all your brandables to SH. The reason for that is several big portfolio holders left recently the marketplace due to lack of sales activity/views on their name, recently SH grew significantly in terms of number of listings ( 128685 names vs BB´s 133784 at the time of posting ) Undoubtedly SH has a great tech kit to put the names in front of buyers, however when a marketplace grows that fast, STR tends to drop significantly. Also if later you`ll sell more SH listed names via Afternic than via their landing, it could be another indicator to think about. So I am eager to see how it works out for you.

Lastly, please never get discouraged if someone posts a negative comment or disagrees and NEVER stop posting. I am not a newbie but I enjoy reading your posts and I always have takeways I can apply to my hybrid approach also. It is nice to have extra insights from a fellow domainer who already has large portfolio when you are in the phase of scaling up. So I can only appreciate your articles.

 

[Recons.Com]

I just got a comment today, that 30% SquadHelp commission is an insane amount. (It's not the first time I get such a comment though). And I know it's a judgement error, so here's my response and some advice for other NP members here.

In domaining, there is a mindset of scarcity, and also a mindset of abundance. I choose the latter. Why? Because it's the only one that works. And in business in general.

When someone tells me that 20% commission (Afternic) is too much, or 30% at SquadHelp, well, I know this is a actually a fair percentage. That's also why it is accepted by sellers. And here's the reason.

I don't care how much the other guy gets. What I care about is, how much I am left with. And what do I get out of it. So should you.

This sale I just got, for A/d/a/p/t/y/v/e/ .com would probably have never been made outside of SH as this is a brandable. Unless listed at SH or another brandable marketplace with a lot of traffic, chances would have been nil. Why? Because with Afternic network or Sedo, if your domain is not a searchable one (this isn't), chances are nobody will ever buy the domain. Also the landers don't generally help at all because such domains don't get search engine traffic. They're in a black zone, unless brought to light by a brandable marketplace.

So I just got 70% of the $2299, instead of 100% of nothing.

The same thing applies with Afternic fees which are the highest in the non-brandable marketplaces zone.

I pay 20% at Afternic, and less than 10% elsewhere (e.g. 9% at Dan). Yet all my landers are currently pointing either at Afternic (20% commission; searchables) and some at SH (30%; brandables). Why? Because this brings me the most money overall. Even after deducting all those extra % fees.

With NS5/NS6 at Afternic , that GoDaddy name + a phone where anybody can call means I get a LOT of good sales which otherwise won't be accomplished. The GD name brings trust; many domain buyers are quite wary of online buys.

Also the phone number improve conversions a lot. This is why 20% commission here actually means more money in the pocket for me, rather than say 9% or 10% at another platform where I only get a lander sale, but the buyer never heard of that platform and also there is no phone to call. Side note Afternic brokers are also very good = more sales.

Now with SH what I get is an entire tier of domain sales that would never have existed. (Or with any other brandable marketplace you'd like). SH has a lot of AI and merchandising behind their platform; stats; category based sales; great logo designers; classification experts bringing best categories and descriptions for your domain; contests pushing your domain sales and more. Plus instant support.

All this costs money, much more than yet another lander. But it brings sales - ton of extra sales, and high value sales for domains because of all that merchandising. That's why it is worth it. I can for example double my sales for the same portfolio size, by paying a measly 10% extra. That's quite cheap if you do the math. Even if I get just one more sale at each say 7-8 domains sold elsewhere, it IS worth it. It means profit.

Also, about scarcity.

I've seen a lot of people losing in this business because they're not flexible enough, they value their domains too much or are too attached to them. Al these choices are bad ones.

If you're not willing to give out another 10% of your commission in exchange for far better sales, you're losing, not winning this game.

Because in domaining the most important factor is sales ratio. I'm gonna say this again, just to make sure you understand it. In domaining, the most important factor is sales ratio. Keep this in mind. Do everything you can to improve that factor. Do the math. Your platform choice is a very important factor that can make the difference between success and failure with domain selling.

Say a given platform like Afternic has 10% more commission. But if, again, they bring 20% more sales, you're in profit because overall you sold more and you're left with more money. Use the difference to buy a few more great names, or - why not? Pocket the profit and spend it as you'd like.

This is why you should always test and measure such things. Math on paper.

And yet another thing about scarcity:

"I'm selling too many of my names and too much % goes to others" etc. Many inexperienced domainers apply this kind of scarcity thinking to their names. Well - did you ever do the math properly? Did you A/B test platforms? Is it good to choose selling LESS names instead of giving out a larger % but for much more sales, which, in turn, will leave you with far more in the pocket?

What many less experienced domainers also forget, is that domain sales ratio usually ranges at 1...2% per year in case of 4-fig domains for example which make the bulk of the market. This means that your feeling of "giving out too may of your names or too much %" is just... a scarcity mindset that actually works against you.

That means, say in one year if you have 100 names and sold 2, you have 98 domains. And you might have made some money, or not - because you have to pay for renewal of 98 names, which costs a lot (98x$10 = $980 for example). But if you sold 4 names, your profit skyrockets because you have DOUBLED your income, and all those extra sales will be 100% profit. And you still have 96 names left to sell, which means, you sold 2% of your portfolio for a multiple-fold profit. With the extra profit you got, you can easily pay for a few more names to cover the few you sold AND still have a lot more in your pocket.

Those extra SH sales will bring me at least a solid extra 5-fig over this year. That's why I use Afternic, SH and would use any other decent but perhaps high priced marketplace. Because without them, overall I'd be at a loss.

Do the math, guys. Always do the math. And avoid the scarcity mindset.

Happy domaining!

This all means nothing without actual numbers.

I disagree that name like Adaptyve doesn't have chance outside of SH. It is a classic brandable with y replacing i, similar to Lyft, for a very positive business-friendly word Adaptive.

The difference between Dan (9%) and SH (30%) is not mere 21%, as it seems. For your net amount, the difference is 0.91/0.7-1=30%. So, the difference in commission is actually 30% net to you. SH landers would need to sell 30%+ more than Dan landers. And that is without factoring in:

- SH upfront costs (listing fees, time spent listing, editing, boosting etc.)
- SH determined pricing that is often lower than a name can reasonably sell for
- Having to deal with their BS changing rules like demanding increase in Afternic listing prices vs. SH listing prices.
- Not having an access to google analytics.

Frankly, I am not seeing SH outperforming Dan or AN landers currently.

And, also, a brandable marketplace could actually hurt your sales on top of higher commissions. Get this:

I decided to leave Brandbucket after just 1 sale in 1 year on 350+ names. And guess what? In just 7 weeks since then I have sold 5 (!) out of those names via AN, Dan, Sedo at higher prices than I had listed them at BB and way lower commissions (20%, 9%, 15%), including a name that according to your theory should never sell outside of a brandable marketplace (go/vo/bo/.com) that sold an hour ago.

 

[Recons.Com]

Yes, it is as I thought. Your portfolio is stronger. You started earlier indeed, I had like half that time at my disposal. Entering so late in the market has big downsides.

I've looked at some of the names and it's clear to me. These are names that do sell nicely just with a lander, and Dan is good tor that. The difference in quality has that effect. But also, I'm still making room for a much more tailored approach. So far it has been mostly volume based rather than individual domain research and attention. I'm addressing this right now. I do have some names like that but have to think more.

Most of my names are drop regs and some closeouts, but not many. With drop regs, anything above 1k is automatically snapped by DC and in many cases it is not worth it to enter an auction which often goes into insane pricing zone.

I'm currently transitioning from a discount / volume style to retail style but it's still a process.

Well, think of it this way: over 9k domains out of 17k are registered in the past 12 months. So, entering late is not that much of a factor. And I am planning to add another 10k-15k domains in the next 12 months.

But, yes, each name has to be researched. Of course, there are times when I just like a name and don't care to check anything

Back to the subject, I agree with your overall premise that the commission doesn't matter as long as a platform delivers accordingly.

The problem is all these platforms like BB, BP, SH, Alter are doomed to fall back towards industry normal STRs as their size grows. They can demonstrate the outstanding 3%-10% STR only when they are really small in 5000-20000 portfolio size range. As they near 100k, it is closer to 2% average and in 1%-1.5% for regular sellers there that are not either insiders, or staff, or the preferred ones, or the ones willing to spend bunch of time there. And in 100k-200k portfolio size, the STR is nearing 1%-1.5% overall and even lower further. At this point, it is pointless to pay them 20%-35%, as they are not delivering 30%+ sales boost consistently (in fact, has to be 50%+ to be worth it, again, given the money, time investment, and limits).

 

[kaposzta]

I think this name would have sold without a marketplace.

While marketplaces have their place, i think too many people uncritically dump everything they can on these marketplaces, including their best names. As a result, they needlessly and thoughtlessly give away massive amounts of commission every year.

So to me it's not about a scarcity vs. abundance mindset, it's about maximizing profit by understanding what kind of names will sell on their own vs. understanding what names would do better on a marketplace.

"I think this name would have sold without a marketplace."
Or maybe not, we'll never know. But the probability of selling a name is tend to be higher on brandable domain marketplaces, as there are less competing names (e.g. 100 similar names on Squadhelp vs 1000 on Afternic), there is an eye-catching logo, there are Squadhelp ads everywhere, etc.

"...many people uncritically dump everything..."
In this business, where finding sellable names is as crucial as pricing them correctly, uncritical dumping on marketplaces is a huge timesaver. The time saved then can be used to find more names, work on strategy or automation, learn about the markets, trends and pricing, etc. Since I have limited time to do domaining, this is a no-brainer for me, I'll uncritically dump my domains to Squadhelp and Brandbucket, as long as this business is profitable. They know what they are doing, I don't

 

[twiki]

To make things a bit more clear for whoever doesn't really get much of this:

My model is probably different from most domainers here (if not entirely different). As any model, it has its pros and cons.

Until recently I have focused on meaningful domains and not so much on brandables. Had a mixed bag of .coms and ngTLDs and most were 2-words. I've decided to focus on .COMS further for the simple reason, the profit margin is indeed higher for me. 90% of the portfolio is made from drops, and recently I've started doing some handregs and closeouts. I only have like 800 closeouts so far and just sold my first from this category.

What makes my model different is volume. I have much more volume than I can handle. My investment money is limited (around 100k currently, varies) but most of all my time is limited. I also have 2 businesses apart from this, one paying most of my bills (domains is a side one) and a new real estate-based biz which is going to pay big, probably far more than domains in the near future. So I have to deal with domains in the time left. I have people who work for me and do the accounting and stuff but the core domaining part is still mine to do.

( Edit: I topped at 25K names, and that has been an insane pressure of work. Always decreasing portfolio since and aiming at 5k-10k names max for the future. )

Due to this, I've always had little time to spend on each individual domain so it has been a sort of a volume based. I prefer to discount rather to do lengthy research.

So I've been a discount domainer. Which means, I sell domains at half or even a quarter of the full retail price, in most cases. This, again, has pros and cons. The cons being, you sell them for less than their final value. But it saves me time. Also, I've already measured that when I discount a domain in half (50% of the retail price), the STR grows by 3x. Which means, the more I discount, the more money I make. Time and time again this has proven its validity (in my case).

There is an other inherent downside of this - you sell out more names. However, I'm still left with 9 out of 10 names (a 10% STR means that you still have 90% of your portfolio left). And since I do have a lot of volume, I have a lot of expires as well. I renew far less than I let expire because there's a lot of fish out there and new fish can be very interesting if you take a good peek. Haven't found yet a way to clear my expires properly; NP is too much hassle and NameLiquidate didnt provide results. So that's one side unresolved yet.

There is also a clear difference here from what others said (deriving from their retail models mostly). Drops are generally not high in value (apart from the occasional gems). If they stand out from the crowd just by a little, DC and SN are all on top of them so they're out of reach. Most drops are probs XXX range for a fast sale. I do have enough 4-fig sales though as well, but at the end of the day, half of the meat probably still comes in XXX range form.

My model has always been inspired from the big ones that do something of this sort. Like HugeDomains if you want, more or less. They don't do much research, if at all as far as I can tell. They have volume and more or less blanket investing. I've also seen that investor at Sav who bought everything matching a certain word that dropped, blanket reg without much filtering. That I don't do, I filter carefully what i reg. I still wonder if the model still works for that guy.

(Edit: But HugeDomains has a big advantage, they scooped up a ton of domains early so by now it's all profit even if they also still carry a lot of dead weight in my opinion )

I've recently decided however that it is time for me to do more closeouts, buys, even some handregs and delve into brandables. But due to lack of time it's still half baked, the brandable analysis. However as my portfolio shrinks the time increases so I will be able to follow things like @Lox always suggests and I very much like. It's also good for knowledge and maximizing profit.

There is, however, an inherent advantage from doing this volume. You get to learn a ton of niches and combinations. There's also the possibility that someday, with a certain amount of money to be invested, I will be able to increase the portfolio by a lot - due to the volume - and even if I have to renew a few times, as .COM prices continue to grow (and I have no doubt they will), it's a safe bet. Plus, retail price range sales of course as you sit on that portfolio and profit during this time.

Perhaps all this makes more sense now with insight into my model. Volume-wise, I register only a tiny fraction of what I'm discovering (budget and time constraints) and I'm always amazed how many of my expiring domains are caught by DC etc. But there's no hard feelings in my model - each sold domain pays for hundreds more (even if sold at discount) and by all means, there's so much fish out there.

( Later edit: I'm currently aiming for names which are at least 2K or more in retail value - have decided that this is the absolute limit from now on, for me at this point. Just a detail. )

 

[kaposzta]

Well I never intended to be condescending. In fact I've edited stuff so it doesn't appear as such. But I guess it comes across like that, at least. For that I apologize to whoever felt it.

I'm always happy to get criticism, if well intended and or accurate.

But I never said my way is right and all others are wrong. I've only pointed out some things that are often done and do not bring results for the reasons aforementioned. There is no single way in domaining though.

In fact I have to thank you for this comment because it just brings me a much more needed clarity in some direction that is difficult to explain though. But anyway it helps.

About price - just as you think my name is underpriced, I think your evaluation is overpriced. But as you just said, you're not the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong, including me.

There is no single price for one domain. I know that this domain could have been sold for much more. But for me what matters is time x revenue, and each domain can be sold by x times more if you wait y more time. And I've tested my names long enough to know exactly how to price and sell - my names, not yours, not everyone else's.

So nobody is either 100% right or 100% wrong.

"Domain worth" is something so subjective, and so much influenced by countless factors that is difficult to grasp. I'm a discount domainer, while I can safely assume by your answer that you're a retail domainer. None of these approaches are the final answer.

I assume you however you dislike my style and pricing because it goes much against your own, I can definitely understand that. And you assume I would not be able to price it where it should be (much higher) because I don't know that. Well that assumption, and your whole coment is, I must say, is condescending.

But it's alright. Again nobody is 100% right or wrong. Nor I am upset, or should someone be, for someone other sharing their thoughts and ideas in an effort not to be condescending, but rather to help.

This being said, I'm probably going to end all my posts with this one.

I like sharing what I've found and write on various subjects, be it right or wrong. But if this is the impact, it is probably time for me to stop writing completely.

Thanks for that as well, and no, I'm not condescending while saying this. It is what it is.

Please, please, do not end your posts with this one! Your posts are packed with excellent information. Don't listen to the ones who doesn't see the value. It's their problem. If you decide not post anything here again, I get it, idiotic replies like the one above can be annoying, but please start at least a blog, I would seriously pay for the knowledge and experience in your head

 

[Recons.Com]

My approach is simpler:

- Buy names that would make a great name for a company, personal brand, product, service etc. in .com
- Set a fair price, list, have clean lander. Fair price for those names in 95% of cases is in 1500-3000 range. If a fair price for a name is $xxx, then it is probably not a great name for the above point and not worth registering.
- Keep renewing and forget about it, thus not requiring any additional admin work.

 

[twiki]

I don't want you to stop. Your postings are thought provoking. Domainers are constantly navigating between different strategies and they can become successful in several ways.

Dear @twiki (I like your nickname). Writing down your thoughts helps yourself and others in balancing different strategies. Even for domainers who are already familiar with them, it is nice to see how others give substance to their entrepreneurship. Domainers with larger portfolios will most often already apply several strategies at the same time. Thanks for your posts thus far, and I look forward to your next adventures.

Thanks for this.

Well I know exactly why this happened.

My previous signature looked very much condescending (although it was just addressing an ongoing problem I had with DM's), and it was just a matter of time until someone (@karmaco in this case) thinks I am condescending. Which I am not. I don't blame this user for getting this perception. But I wasn't talking to them. And see, you've been my follower and know my articles and interaction but not everyone would. You could see that this was not my intent (ever) but not everyone really followed my history.

If I gave the impression of a condescending smartass here, that's my fault then - and I apologize to anyone who felt as such including @karmaco for having gotten that feeling from my words.

I'd just add that, if that user would have searched my history of articles aimed at beginners, would have seen that on the contrary - I always tried to help and never asked for anything in return. My articles are NOT for more experienced domainers and especially not for high retail, etc. so I don't understand how an experienced domainer would have thought that I'd tell them what to do as each of the pros here have a different method. I'm just sharing what I learned, good or bad, up to my current level of experience.

Example of a completely different style and more experience, though different from mine and completely different model: @Lox, does excellent research and great 5-fig sales; that is definitely not my niche, not my style, not my names and not what most beginners would be able to do. So I could not advice Lox of anything but I could learn a lot from him and develop names differently. Similarly, many new domainers have gotten help from my articles, but following the middle market needs and names and sales in most cases.

Another thing. My model based more on volume, little time for research and everything, and some degree of automation. I achieve the same result (profit) while not being a retail domainer but a discount domainer, something that is often wrongly perceived as "I don't know the value of domains" instead of the truth, which is, I prefer to sell faster and at lower prices, as overall this works best for me and my mostly names caught at drop. I prefer to sell more names rather than digging a lot for any individual name. By selling discount I have a very high sales ratio, which in turn has gotten me the most money. I tested this time and time again and the choice still stands, regardless if I sometimes sell something for far cheaper than max possible as it was with the domain mentioned in this post.

I focus on the bulk of the market and therefore my tips cater for that niche, the below $3K per name folks or even xxx range. Beginners don't really have 5-fig names in most cases, this should have been obvious and therefore no perception as condescending.

I just got some bitterness (obviously) from reading this. And thought perhaps it's time to stop doing this. Haven't taken a decision yet but I still lean on stopping completely. Thanks however for this encouragement.

 

[DrJacoby]

I even have a few names that keeps getting deleted after I add them for no reason.

In my experience, that's most often because Afternic thinks the domain is violating a TM.

 

[twiki]

In my experience, that's most often because Afternic thinks the domain is violating a TM.

That is probably the case.

What's the threshold for getting an account manager? Is it sales volume, number of listings, or what do you think?

I have no idea, but definitely not listings, must be sales.

They reached out, said my portfolio has attracted a lot of positive attention, having a great potential. Once I broke into 6-fig sales, they assigned a very nice fellow as my account manager.

The account manager said I would have gotten it sooner; but they needed someone within the similar timezone so they hired a new person in UK and I was the first account assigned (I'm in Eastern Europe).

 

[nlitenme]

I'm with @Future Sensors , @kaposzta and the others who value your posts.

PLEASE do not stop posting your thoughts and findings.

I'm still a newbie and I feel that you've helped me a lot. And as a newbie, I never feel any sort of condescending nature in your posts (or what was in your signature).

Thank you @twiki for all of your posts so far and I look forward to many more.

 

[twiki]

The "Godaddy name" stuff is nothing but an old trope some people like to kid themselves about. Afternic became one of the biggest marketplaces without it, you got your sale without it, and you could just as easily argue the name "Godaddy", with all its baggage, puts many people off and that the mixed Afternic/Godaddy branding is confusing to buyers.

Domain buyers are wary of buying domains online? How do people typically buy domains then? Nobody has been wary of online shopping since about 1999.

If people find names on SH from their promotion and search, why have a landing page for SH?

Your $2299 sale doesn't prove it 100% wouldn't sell elsewhere, it proves someone is willing to pay at least $2299 for it.

If the buyer found your name at SH, checked your domain to see what was on it, and saw it priced at, say, $1999 on a 10% marketplace lander, why wouldn't they save themselves $300, in the process leaving you with $200 more?

Listing on as many places as possible isn't rocket science, neither is using different pricing to account for different commissions, but landers are you bringing traffic to the marketplace, and the marketplace simply completing the sale, and there's zero reason to be shelling out 20% or 30% for that when you could be paying 10% or less.

It appears you're not using SH, yet giving advice about it.

One cannot "find your name at SH" then go to a 10% marketplace lander, because with SH you need to point your domains there at all times via DNS, otherwise they are delisted.

But in essence, this is not the only way. Many will choose a 9% or even a 5% lander. I'm just explaining why I make this choice. Anyone can have another choice as they please.

Also, the Afternic landers with GD branding and phone number have brokers behind that help selling domain names. This is why I use only Afternic today: I have the best conversion rate.

I've tested about any other lander out there, for long time, including my own landers with Escrow embedded. Guess what? Even after that commission, the financial results with Afternic are best due to the conversion rate it brings. Dan.com came in second but at a large distance.

I'm advising anyone to first test and then decide. I'm speaking from experience not just taking sides, based on the mere impression that cheap is always better.

Edit: The Afternic lander choice is not even my invention. It has been posted in 2020 by @AbdulBasit.com - read the interview here. I was surprised by the choice but after testing long enough, I found this to be true. The most important conversion factor is, in my opinion, the phone number and speaking to an Afternic broker over the phone.

 

[twiki]

On a general note, some clarification appears needed:

- I'm not sure why some users thought I'm preaching the ultimate method here. But maybe I haven't expressed things correctly.

I'm just explaining why I (and not everyone in the world) am happy with these commission rates. Because they work for me and even after deducting those rather large fees, I am still left with more than using other tools with far less %. Actually it's a very simple choice, although it could be rather counter-intuitive.

But some folks might be angry at such fees % = well, I don't blame you if you feel it's a ripoff. For me, they just work best but I'm not you.

- So this post is just yet one avenue to test. I haven't said it's the ultimate method to end all methods. On the contrary; it's something rather counter intuitive and I assume not everyone will use it, or probably a minority. But as I investigated it due to Abdul and found it true, it might be a great choice for you too. For me it increases the sales at least by 50% so there is no going back.

- When I said "do the math" I did not refer to "do some general math", but do yours. Your own math. With your real data. Which implies you have to test things first.

And just to make it clear how: If you want to try this, then run an A/B test, Afternic vs. your favorite platform for at least a few months before deciding (I'd say that 3 months is a bare minimum while half a year could be an actually decent time frame). Side note I've tested for more than that, and over several yeas before finally deciding.

- Results always differ depending on portfolio, obviously. I don't have another portfolio to test, mine is a mixed bag (brandables; meaningful; single words and double words; etc) so they cover some area, although mostly in the middle market (mostly 1k - $5k zone). But you could have a very different one so the results are not guaranteed to be similar. It's just some interesting avenue to test if you want, in search of better revenue.

That's all we are in for, better revenue.

I doubt many domainers here can ignore Afternic. It's just the biggest source of sales there is. But Afternic is NOT the only avenue and in general Afternic sales tend to be rather price competitive. (translated: low-ish, see average sale values on periodically reported market stats on NP). You might still sell your names for more on your own landers or something else depending on domains and price etc. For me, Afternic just brings the most sales volume (without the landers) + the best conversion (by pointing the landers as well).

- There can be side benefits of using just one platform:

a) The first side benefit I get is that I use only one platform. (Edit not counting SH which is a different specific segment of the portfolio). I do have a few listed elsewhere but for another test. However most of my domains are only listed at Afternic. When you have 10k names or more, maintaining multiple marketplaces and ensuring everything works correctly and is always in sync is a pain. I get almost daily sales in many parts of the year and i have to delete sold names or expiring names etc everywhere, otherwise I'd get into the situation where I just sold a name I don't have anymore. That's bad and it happened.

Having only one listing to maintain makes things easier.

b) The second side benefit is no more headaches when selling to EU users. Afternic handles that and just sends you your cash. If you trade as a business this can be very important; for each sale I make to EU users via other platforms like Dan or Sedo I have to either add VAT (and maybe lose clients) or deduct VAT and keep price final (and I lose ~20% of the revenue). The bigger part not being the VAT paid (lost revenue) but actually accounting for it with the new EU rules where you have to have 2 actual proof items of the buyer's country and whatnot, the MOSS system etc. It's a ton of hassle and Afternic just clears my head (and my team) out of that mess.

It makes things simple so we can focus on our domain portfolio.

c) You can get better treatment if you have all your turnover at Afternic. Namely, an account manager will be always helpful with everything, managing listing errors but even in certain situations that can occur in the sales process where you need someone to intervene with care. I had such cases and it was helpful. If I have spread my sales all over then perhaps it would have delayed getting an account manager.

There are others but are perhaps too specific to my case, so the above is enough.

Again I'm just saying what I found out, feel free to follow this or not. It's all your decision. Good luck!

 

[Recons.Com]

It's not about this particular name, don't get stuck on that. I've just sold for example JoinByte (on SH) for which never had an offer (elsewhere).

The name would have chances but no exposure. On Afternic, unless you have a searchable OR a great name people would type in, you don't get sales. I have great domains (even better than Adaptyve) who never got an offer at Afternic.

It's also about the domains. My domains don't sell on Dan or other plain lander. I hardly get a 4-fig sale in like 3 months on those.

Also this is my choice, not everyone's. Food for thought though.

Edit: I'm still using Dan for a set of domains and hearing... crickets.

I have never had any offers on 99% of names I sold in 2021, and that is around 120 xxxx to xxxxx sales. Not having prior offers mean NOTHING.

JoinByte is a fine name, not better, not worse than many brandables, since many companies that cannot get their brand, will choose call to action word in front, like Join, Buy, Get, Go etc. and Byte is a great keyword. Again, doesn't prove or disprove anything.

If you really want to prove your point, do a random split and test A/B for 6 mo+. But even then your experiment probably won't be clean, as SH doesn't let to list any name. It would probably need the reverse. Meaning, if you have 1000 names on SH, take 500 away for 6 months and test. But that could be against their ToS.

So what we are left with is your STR. Care to share what is your STR in past 12 months (not their BS Str posted on the dashboard), ie. X sales divided by weighted average portfolio size for the 12 months. And then what is your STR for similar names on Afternic+Dan (or another similar lander).

I have started with Dan about 7 weeks ago and have sold around $20k worth so far with them since.

 

[twiki]

Well, think of it this way: over 9k domains out of 17k are registered in the past 12 months. So, entering late is not that much of a factor. And I am planning to add another 10k-15k domains in the next 12 months.

But, yes, each name has to be researched. Of course, there are times when I just like a name and don't care to check anything

Back to the subject, I agree with your overall premise that the commission doesn't matter as long as a platform delivers accordingly.

The problem is all these platforms like BB, BP, SH, Alter are doomed to fall back towards industry normal STRs as their size grows. They can demonstrate the outstanding 3%-10% STR only when they are really small in 5000-20000 portfolio size range. As they near 100k, it is closer to 2% average and in 1%-1.5% for regular sellers there that are not either insiders, or staff, or the preferred ones, or the ones willing to spend bunch of time there. And in 100k-200k portfolio size, the STR is nearing 1%-1.5% overall and even lower further. At this point, it is pointless to pay them 20%-35%, as they are not delivering 30%+ sales boost consistently (in fact, has to be 50%+ to be worth it, again, given the money, time investment, and limits).

Great analysis, thanks for that.

Edit: Even if your names are recent, there's also the advantage of experience. I've seen that each 3-6 months my investment goes into a completely new stage, a leap forward. Since there are so many learning steps behind, I can assume there are also many such steps going forward.

 

[blogspotter]

This is a good question.

I had the same problem until I got my own account manager at Afternic. After each important upload I ask him to check and activate whatever is stuck / not active.

Problem solved.

Looks like you haven't checked.

I am not referring to the stuck names that can be activated by a Afternic Staff. I am referring to names that you have added successfully but goes missing without any reason or warning.

Download your latest Portfolio. And run a compare between that and all the names that you have bought or renewed.

You will find that several names are missing in your afternic Portfolio.
I run a compare every week or 2, and find a few names missing almost every time.
I even have a few names that keeps getting deleted after I add them for no reason.

 

[twiki]

"I think this name would have sold without a marketplace."
Or maybe not, we'll never know. But the probability of selling a name is tend to be higher on brandable domain marketplaces, as there are less competing names (e.g. 100 similar names on Squadhelp vs 1000 on Afternic), there is an eye-catching logo, there are Squadhelp ads everywhere, etc.

"...many people uncritically dump everything..."
In this business, where finding sellable names is as crucial as pricing them correctly, uncritical dumping on marketplaces is a huge timesaver. The time saved then can be used to find more names, work on strategy or automation, learn about the markets, trends and pricing, etc. Since I have limited time to do domaining, this is a no-brainer for me, I'll uncritically dump my domains to Squadhelp and Brandbucket, as long as this business is profitable. They know what they are doing, I don't

I'm going to take the middle ground here because I think that both sides in these last 2 comments are right. Or at least there is some truth in everything.

"I think this name would have sold without a marketplace." = As @kaposzta said, Maybe. Or maybe not. Indeed we'll never know. Any name actually can be sold without a marketplace, just via its own lander.

But the question here is when. The problem with brandables is that many don't match searches so they don't do well on non-brandable marketplaces. Furthermore, there is little chance someone will actually type this and reach your domain. It's possible but the chances are poor. Which means, you might renew domains for years without selling, which works against the bottom line.

A brandable marketplace is a conversion optimizer plus traffic/advertising. SH is bringing traffic to their marketplace and there are enough users already watching stuff there. There is also category-based search, contests and stuff, great logo designs, classification text etc. All these bring a far higher likelihood of sale for brandable domains (not necessarily the example domain mentioned here) that could otherwise be sitting on a non-brandable lander for eons.

Now if a regular lander has say 10% commission, and SH has 30% commission for domains in the low to mid 4-fig zone, that's a 20% difference commission. The question you have to ask yourself here is, is that difference worth it? Is there a chance of +20% extra (or more) that you will sell your (brandable) domains on a brandable marketplace like SH?

To me, the answer is a sound yes. Also with the portfolio I have, those domains which are listed on SH are better there than elsewhere - by far.

But otherwise, @DomainBanana has a point too. Listing everything in hopes of a sale is not necessarily a good thing.

However, most cases of such domainers could be different, just as mine is particular. I have a platinum account with SH. So I still keep my names at Afternic AND SH just offers additional exposure.

The domain mentioned here was underpriced by lack of enough time (I admit that) but for me that kind of underpricing is not necessarily the worst thing in the world in MY opinion - long story but in short I have more buy volume than usable capital to stock names. I've calculated time and time again that it's a far worse sin for my case to overprice rather than underprice. But it's not the same for any other domainer.

The whole point is, however, not about this particular name, but about brandable names in general. Also on many prices SH price was not lower but equal or higher than my own price (remember, I'm a discount domainer, I don't price full retail in many cases). So for me it works.

Another side advantage you get is seeing which domains are getting high traffic, submitted in contests etc.

Last comment now, it's all about testing and doing the math.

The additional exposure AND merchandising provided by SH is something that can improve the sales / conversion factor by a lot. The choice depends on the names of course, but for me it is definitely worth it.

The essence of the post is, don't instinctively go against the choice of a higher % before doing analysis on it and make perhaps some testing at least. Worst case scenario, if you're not happy anymore you can part ways with the platform and that's it.

 

[twiki]

Yes, another name that would likely have sold on its own. This is not a standard brandable and not the kind of name that people are likely to randomly find on a marketplace and buy. It's a name that buyers would have already been looking for.

As mentioned above, I prefer not to give away high commissions on these types of names that can sell on their own.

But we all have our methods.

And I would not blame anyone for doing so. It's logical and many feel like that.

I'm just offering a counter-intuitive approach, one that I use.

 

[twiki]

Based on my worst case scenario calculations (considering around $8 regfee and renewal fees, around 20% acceptance rate on SH and $1500 average NET sales price, rejected names listed on Afternic/Dan with an expected 1% STR and gross $500 average sales price then dropped after a year), you break even at around 1% STR on SH. So anything above 1% makes you a profit. 1.5% STR for a large portfolio means a large profit.

If you filter the names correctly then yes. Your worst case calculation stands as profitable.

At this time I'm still holding a mixed bag, but in 4-5 months from now on the lower tier will be dropped, as recently I've stopped registering anything of that nature.

Will still discount some, those I don't intend to renew perhaps but in the future probably not.

I've observed that some buyers wait until the last minute, then precisely couple days before expiry they buy desperately as they've been waiting for months. And I've pretty much figured why:

There are only 2 avenues at that point, 1) either the name will be renewed and it's another year to wait pointlessly, or 2) the name will be dropped and in this case it will be DC if of any good and then put at auction etc. Chances are they don't get it. So they rush to buy.

Therefore with names of good enough value, discounting is pointless, you keep the price until the last day then you can either let expire OR auto renew depending on the quality of the name. That's how you squeeze most from them. So basically retail pricing and that's it.

My model has been failing or so in the last year on those that fallback to XXX range, there are not enough sales there, unlike in the past. To me there is a shift in the market where tech and finance goes 4-5 fig (up) but everyday domains are under pricing pressure (down) and therefore the money isn't there anymore. It used to be.

 

[twiki]

Which lander are you using specifically? I believe Abdul is using the GoDaddy NS3/NS4 lander and he likes them a lot.

Are you using the same or the BUY IT NOW version which is NS5/NS6?

Thanks!

-Omar

This is an entire discussion but to keep it short. I'm currently using NS5/NS6.

I have tested NS3/NS4 enough, but it does not convert for me. And the reason can be logically determined.

Afternic recommends NS5/NS6 for average domains with value less than 5k (which I have). These are more impulse buys and therefore an easier BIN lander is useful in such cases.

Abdul has different, higher value domains. In such cases, NS3/NS4 is ideal. It presents an additional barrier, only the most interested / qualified buyers will fill in that form. Basically you don''t get through that barrier unless you NEED that domain, as opposed to want it. And by then you expect you will have to pay up a decent sum.

So it depends on what type of names you have. Also, A/B testing is critical as usual.

 

[twiki]

Currently, I have a portfolio size of approx 300 domains. Changing half of my landers to Afternic NS5 and NS6 landers for 2 months. Perhaps you are right but I would never know if I never try.

If your domains are generally under $5K, NS5/NS6 is a great choice.

If higher priced, try NS3/NS4.