NamesCon2020

If you had a system detecting all expired domains in realtime, how would you use it?

Labeled as discuss in Domain Expiration and Domain Drop Catching started by twiki, Sep 21, 2019.

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  1. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Say if you'd design a system that detects expired/dropped domains in realtime, often in the minute they're dropped, how would you use it?

    Including those more exotic ccTLD's, where expiry information is not public/available.

    ( Note: Obviously not a direct competitor for the big boys, but still a large instant database of expired domains - domain checker on steroids).

    Thanks!
     
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  2. gtldomainer

    gtldomainer Established Member

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    Find good names among the dropped and register them ! what else ?
     
  3. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Well, apart from the obvious first option (register for own usage and/or later flipping), there are multiple possibilities to use something like this.

    The second option would be to give access to several users to the system for a fee. Clearly, no single individual or company can register everything that expires. And everybody has their own style and different interests. For example a Russian user might be very interested in .ru domains, but everyone else, not so much.

    The third would be selling the data in bulk via API. Keyword generator sites and the sorts might benefit significantly from this as they could pair any KW suggestion with a valuable domain. Or, building one of these on top of the system and again use it internally.

    Option 4 (kind of way too stretched): Someone has suggested drop catching/bidding or backordering, but in the field of high-value domains that's likely impossible due to sheer competition. Business and technical requirements are making this very unlikely. Just mentioning it as well.

    I'm just looking for suggestions, pros and cons etc. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  4. gtldomainer

    gtldomainer Established Member

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    In that case, we'd basically be competing with other similar services like Dropcatch, namejet etc. From my limited knowledge, what I think is, if you can make just one thing better than others, i.e., catch as many dropped names possible or at least the targeted ones, then you won't really need to have too many services. I think there is very little scope to do with dropped names already. just my 2 cents.
     
  5. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Too many domain owners are competing for the same thing, high stakes domains. This system cannot compete with those, registrars with high-powered systems designed to win the same domain 500 firms compete to snatch.

    Guess the guy with the biggest pocket and lot of experience will win those. For Dropcatch, etc. what counts are fractions of a second to catch a high-stakes domain. Obviously I'm not talking about them.

    My own experience is also very limited, however I've identified other ways to profit from expired domains. Some are quite lucrative and tend to work for years, such as getting expired domains with backlinks.

    You can get one of these and either keep it and build a PBN (then sell stuff for years, affiliate system for example), OR you can flip them right away for $100 - 150. In some occasions you can get a high-authority domain that will sell for $1K for example. These aren't large sums, but they are quick to get and flip.

    Another thing is flipping uncommon short names. For example I recently sold something like 6GT.co (not this one exactly, but you get the idea) for $300. All it took was the registration fee and once I listed it, it got purchased.

    And if you go into ccTLD's, there are a lot of opportunities there still untapped.
     
  6. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician Gold Account VIP

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    I would just watch it
    .. working ..
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I think it is true that while numerous serve .com/.net/.org/.info that drop coverage of country codes, other legacy like ,pro and new extensions is sparse. I think that possibly there is a market if the sobscription fee is very modest. I would do the subscriptions very narrow like .it drops or .app drops but have package deals too.

    A service that offered a mix of expiring and drop, that people could pay to get their about to expire listed, might also be a monetization model.

    Bob
     
  8. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Thanks for your comment. Well, I have to disagree on cheap. Focusing on low-priced packages for something like this is not a good idea. These would rather be the bottom of the barrel, maybe used in a later stage to pick some cash over what's left unused. Please note that sustaining such a system is still not a joke, and requires a significant amount of money monthly plus tech team.

    In theory, making narrow low-priced accounts like solely for .it for example is not a bad one, a creative idea of niched approach. Thumbs up for the idea by itself.

    However the low-priced approach doesn't go very far in this case. What you're going to end up is with small income from a lot of small customers focusing on the same TLD, and since the drop number is very small on such TLD's, chances are none of them will ever be satisfied by the results. Plus, marketing will never work since it is expensive and you need to have enough ROI. And it won't end up paying enough to sustain the system. Please note that drop catching systems have a different process, they have everyone bidding on the domain so in the end they make the most out of it. This is why drop catching is far more common than mere expired domain discovery - it has far greater chances of making profit. Although very challenging technically and financially.

    I'm going to disclose now that there are already anxious clients (we know each other well BTW) awaiting to get their hands on their fresh accounts, for a price of 1K (EUR)/mo. They have already tested the system and are more than happy about the results. An entry-level account is 250EUR/mo. Chances are the system will always remain private with a small number of users willing to spend that much. In fact they are so excited, that they already worry we might change our mind so I had to promise I'm going to add a 6-month termination extension on any contract so they don't get out and dry suddenly. It might sound strange to you, yet it is the situation.

    As for bulk data access to all records in realtime from an API customer for SaaS usage, that's going to cost significantly more.

    It is a mistake I see often - too many SaaS providers are pricing their products too low, sometimes trying to underprice everyone else in the market. I see the opposite as best strategy - aim high, especially if you already know it works. A 1K customer often requires the same amount of support as a $10 one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
  9. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    It sounds like you already have everything all figured out completely and soundly for a high priced private system. Some of us responded from viewpoint of what an average single domainer might want. I now see that is not what you wanted, and apologize for misunderstanding your request.

    But I am still unclear what you were hoping to learn from the post to NamePros.
     
  10. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Fair answer. However it's not exactly like that, there are still plenty of reason for the post.

    See, when you work on something that has multiple applications / usage cases, you need to focus. And we still venture into the unknown, it's not firm ground for us.

    The single domainer answers, although expected, are important as well. Confirmation if you want, of a potential path to keep in sight. Some of the ideas actually came from a similar post elsewhere. Anyway - although I said no to low cost accounts (note, at this stage), there is a strong chance we might actually issue something for single domainers in the future, just as you suggested. So I'm saying no, but it doesn't mean you don't have a valid answer above. It might seem contradictory but it's not.

    Feedback is always important. You can prioritize things. I often come back and re-read such posts and find additional key information. You have to build things for solving people's needs. Who knows, maybe at some point we will be able to do that, just as you suggested. In fact, right now we are exploring several options outside of anything posted in this thread, and the end result might be tremendously useful to single domainers. Such as a very fancy keyword generator that helps spot valuable, either expired or unused domains.

    The most important part is cons. That's what you look for when posting.

    You think you've made your homework and figured it out. That until someone rings your bell with an issue you never think of. So positive criticism is extremely important. I don't feel we have all answers at this stage although some of the answers are here to stay.

    Maybe this makes things a bit more clear. Any answer is appreciated even if it seems it's not bringing much (it just seems so).

    Warm thanks for all comments!
     
  11. topdom

    topdom Established Member

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    Does expireddomains.net delay drop reporting?
     
  12. lock

    lock PremiumNameDomain.com VIP

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    I would still hand reg and pick it up by fluke going for my keywords.
     
  13. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    expireddomains updates their database once per day on most domains. (and in a 4-hour window)

    What does this tell you?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  14. Jimmysun

    Jimmysun Established Member

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    1. Open a website dropstats.com
    2. or sell the system for a couple of million.
     
  15. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Good points! 1 - We already have the website registered, only not active publicly yet - still trying to figure out correctly the business model, apart from the existing few premium customers.

    Otherwise, selling the system - it's not a bad idea but it is worth much more. The domain part, yeah, couple mil will be decent. But that's only like 5% of our data, and the rest will be used in completely different niches. So we probably cannot sell it. I also don't think we should. It's a rare opportunity and we worked many years on the underlying tech until we got here.

    And it doesn't need investment, we're completely afloat and able to grow without such pressure.
     
  16. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    It appears this is indeed the winner answer - yeah, guess what, the most obvious one!

    Today it was the first day of using it in production - internally. It literally blown our socks off. I mean I knew it worked (because I did preview tests during alpha) but I did not expect it to be that good.

    Within minutes we have registered about 30 .com value domains, 2 words, easy to flip fast - at the cost of mere registration. The kind usually listed at $xxxx (where one word is either casino, bank, cbd, games, crypto, bitcoin... whatever, and the other word is one that makes it definitely sellable). And this is just the first version; we have enhancements next that will take the thing to a whole new level. I'd say that we will probably bank > 20K over this set of domains, considering say only 1/3 of them will ever get sold.

    It makes absolutely no sense to give the primary data away. Just register domains and then hold and flip.

    But we can still build secondary tools such as ccTLD monitoring.
     
  17. Jimmysun

    Jimmysun Established Member

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    Wow, can’t wait to see that!
     
  18. gtldomainer

    gtldomainer Established Member

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    Time to get some beta users yet? Let me know. :xf.wink::xf.wink:
     
  19. lock

    lock PremiumNameDomain.com VIP

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    I am looking for something for ExpireDomainNames.com
     
  20. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Thanks, we have enough beta users already. (not sure if we keep'em on the longer run). Besides, it's pricey anyway, so...

    Liked your comments though :xf.smile::xf.wink:
     
  21. twiki

    twiki Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    You can have that one for 22K, listed on Sedo.

    BTW - where do they get such prices? Insane pricing for a 3 word domain which is not casino or crypto.
     

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