NamesCon2020

If Domain Investors are Squatters Then Domain Registrars Are the Biggest Ones of All

Labeled as discuss in General Domain Discussion started by TCK, May 15, 2019.

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  1. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This article is not about bashing domain investors or domain registrars. Rather it is about setting misconceptions straight and putting things in perspective.

    What motivated this piece is an article on the Forbes website that was reported on by TheDomains. It was about a “leadership strategist” and writer who was starting a new consulting business.

    Read the entire piece here

    It was written with the end-user as the target audience. What are your thoughts?
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. Internet.Domains

    Internet.Domains Top Member VIP

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    I still can't believe Verisign allowed an employee to call us "squatters."

    It's like an employee of a medical insurance company calling a person who visited a doctor a "fraudster."
     
  3. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It is still a general misconception among end-users who know very little about domain names and think that their choice should be available at $10 and if they offer $50 then they think its a great deal for the seller.
     
  4. GenericDomainz

    GenericDomainz Account Auto-Closed

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    Guys, if you register not for 1 year(and renew), but for all 10 years in first day, you are not "the squatter", you are "The Owner" :DDDD
     
  5. JayT

    JayT Restricted (DM)

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    Someone wrote that if your register domain in advance it's a ranking signal for google to put your site SEO higher! If you look them up on whois:
    Registrar: MarkMonitor Inc.
    exp: 2020-09-13
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  6. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think it may help new sites on new domains get out of Google’s sandbox sooner. Not sure how impactful to SEO that would be for established sites that have been renewing their domains for years. That’s because spammers only register for 1 year and then drop the domains, so Google keeps all new sites on new domains in a sandbox.

    That is one of the benefits of buying aged domains.
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I think this article was discussed in another thread, but essentially it seems at least, an overly pro .inc take. The model of pushing it as your exact company name (at least in jurisdictions where that is inc) is not without merit. $2000 per year is a lot for a small company, although some of the extras they include will have value to some. For a big company $2000 is small change.

    Bob
     
  8. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Yes, I am sure. However, the piece is not about that article. That article only served as the impetus. The piece is geared towards anyone who considers domain investors as "squatters". As mentioned, the intended audience is end-user.
     
  9. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I think the article makes many good points, particularly pointing out that domain investors are not squatters. As mentioned many get it wrong. I like the article much more than title. Sure registrars now big part aftersale market but to me that is only loosely related to main article focus. Thanks for posting it.
    Bob
     
  10. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @Bob Hawkes

    Thanks for taking the time to read the article.

    The point of the article is that domain registrars participate and benefit in a big way from the aftermarket, thanks in large part to domain investors. Yet the average person has no issue with that. But when investors sell domains independently, they are quickly labeled as “squatters”.

    It’s like saying that auto dealerships are fine, but selling a car privately is unethical.

    Lastly, the article points out that even registries are jumping on the bandwagon with premium pricing, which actually models aftermarket pricing, and even launching their own marketplaces exclusive to “premium” SLD/TLDs they control. In effect competing with registrars and investors.

    There are also other arguments in the article that show why investors are not squatters.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  11. DomainGuy86

    DomainGuy86 Established Member

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    If I buy a house wih my hard earned money and then sell it for a capital gain in a few years...is that squatting?

    No, it's called capitalism and the idea of property rights enshrined into the law.

    There are many alternatives available to projects if they need to seek out a name at a reasonable price (reg fee). SEO rankings have become a level playing field as long as you have some value to offer.

    You have to pay to play...like everything else in life

    Let's talk about how pharmaceutical companies markup items like epipens, to the detriment of those who need them.

    A domain is a property with exclusive rights issued to the purchaser. Like a 20-year patent. Credit is given to those first-movers. Those salty about it should of been faster.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  12. MolaRam

    MolaRam Established Member

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    So property investors must also be squatters because they bought the property of someone else's choice?
     
  13. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    In my long post somte time ago (just after the Verisign blog post) defending the domain market I make some analogies that might be helpful.
    • Domains are created. They exist because someone came up with them. As with any creative product you must be highly compensated for a few to make up for those no one will choose.
    • Investing in domains is somewhat like investing in startups. A few pay off even though most fail. If no one was creating and investing in domain names useful things like brandable marketplaces would not exist.
    • If there was no domain aftermarket it would be hopelessly inefficient to find and make a transaction for a domain name. It would be like art locked away and forgotten in millions of attics. We indirectly fund and maintain a robust and efficient place to find domain names
    Here is link to full opinion piece
    https://nametalent.com/2018/11/why-we-need-the-domain-aftermarket/

    Bob
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  14. DomainGuy86

    DomainGuy86 Established Member

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    Without a domain aftermarket the registrars' profit would retreat significantly.

    They need us just as much as we need them. This label of "squatting" is patently absurd...and really, registrars openly market their domain extensions and appraisal services solely to cater to domain investors.

    Not to mention the shill bidding and expired domain sales that handsomely reward registrars further.

    This is clearly a case of a for-profit company biting the hand that feeds them.

    Must be trying to polish their image for strictly PR purposes...but anyone can see the hypocrisy.

    What's not mentioned is the time, creativity, market research, and the millions in combined losses involved in domaining.

    Our time and effort is worth something. The notion of "squatting" is antithetical to our very REAL work.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  15. Rory Ivey

    Rory Ivey Top Member VIP

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    Once you paid for something; it's yours. End of story.

    The creative part just reinforces it more.

    There needs to be a movement to legally acknowledge domain names...as creative works just like art or music. Naming companies are a real thing...brands use these companies daily for products etc.

    Especially brandables and two word domains...

    But all in all; you paid for it. It's yours. How can you squat on your own property.
    Those talking about squatting are the real squatters, to see your property and think it should be theirs without compensation.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019
  16. lock

    lock PremiumNameDomain.com VIP

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    Just don't try sell cancercure dot com some guy here on reddit was virtually assonated for something similar.
     
  17. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It’s not a question of ownership, imo. It’s people’s ignorance as to resale value.

    Also, people spamming with bad domains just recently registered to sell at 10-100x the reg cost doesn’t help the perception.
     
  18. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I don't know if it will ever happen, but domain investing and the perception of domainers, in my opinion, would both be helped if the sell through rate was higher but price margin less. I can't really think of any comparable product, except possibly art, with such low probability of sale but high margin. It is only natural that people judge domains with the ruler of other products they buy.

    Bob
     
  19. Eagle578

    Eagle578 Established Member

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    If domainers are deemed to be squatters, then unfortunately every person, company, entity, whatever, who owns property or merchandise which they are not making use of but hold to sell for a profit later on, are squatters. For example... your local dairy.

    Unfortunately the bias against domainers stems, in my opinion, largely from the fact that domains were once upon a time (essentially) free for all, but are now much less accessible due to "those" who recognized the business opportunity and were able to move with the times. I guess you could say, it is a lamentation... "Once upon a time, it wouldn't have cost me so much to obtain a good domain name... Those were the days..."

    A bit like a modern property buyer in the US saying, "If only the early American settlers back in the 1700's would have refrained from claiming land which they didn't need, then I wouldn't have had to pay so much for a property now..."

    As was the case with the early American settlers and many other nations in history, if there is unclaimed ground available and you claim it, its yours. Besides which, as @dnplaybook.com commented in another article, domainers don't simply grab good domains as easy as the flick of a finger and sell them for 1000 times the price. For the most part, it is a business which requires the input of large amounts of money, time, and other resources.

    That's just my newbie opinion. :xf.wink:
     
  20. Jv1999

    Jv1999 Spamming Exo: Dark Merc of the Exo-Tower VIP

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    We are squatters, and glorifying what we do doesn't change that fact.

    You can see it everyday, like someone grabbing a deleted .com like WhiteFencesAreGreat.com and then asking an end user to buy it for way higher the very next hour

    I think if it were legal to capture air on earth, domainers would try to grab all the air and sell it to people to breathe... sure you can call it "capitalism" or the tragedy of the commons... But that doesn't make it right.

    Like air, an obscure domain like WhiteFencesAreGreat.com would have been available for that one end user who was going to use it when the time came for him to search for it. But a domainer happened instead.
     
  21. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Please don't write "we" because you do not speak for everyone.

    I couldn't disagree with you more. You have a very narrow and short-sighted view. But you have that right.

    If you view yourself as a "squatter", then you very likely are. You obviously don't think what you offer has much value to the buyer and you only want to make a quick buck or two. But I will tell you this, a real buyer will see that as well. That's why you will be flipping domains to other "squatters" and never make any serious money.

    The way you view yourself will translate into how buyers view you. Domain investing is not domain flipping. Just because you know how to register domains and can list them for sale doesn't mean you have business acumen.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  22. JayT

    JayT Restricted (DM)

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    Someone can register iphonerepair.com and some will view them as a squatter, others not. (they are squatting in case you don't read the rest...)

    Apple certainly will, we saw they didn't even want individuals repairing iphones, but they lost that battle.

    Still, apple owns the rights to 'iphone'. iphonerepair.com might be the best repair shop ever, working for almost nothing, and fixing iphones. By doing so, barely hurting apple. iphonerepair.com in effect would be working to the benefit of the majority.

    Apple would like people to just buy a new phone, or repair at their store for a high premium. That's not how free markets and capitalism works tho.

    So while in effect the intent and results of owning iphonerepair.com are for the greater good, a necessarily solution, you just can't brand with their name. iphonerepair.com will lose any battle.

    Still, a lot of what people call 'squatting' are domainers owning BEFORE the existence of company, and these people are wrong too, perhaps MORE in the wrong than a real squatter! That's the frustrating part - their entitlement and outspokenness (as we see in article). I will even call a lot of it FAKE NEWS, and a bigger threat than people realize.

    So here we have the problem of a very few cases (true squatting) giving some people (like article author) some grounds to call all domains squatters. Even people here on the forum struggle figuring out if they're squatting or not. If you THINK you might be squatter, you are :p
     
  23. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    If you are registering domains with only one end user in mind then you are losing money on registrations. And that would easily be construed as "squatting". And that is not smart domaining.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019
  24. Jv1999

    Jv1999 Spamming Exo: Dark Merc of the Exo-Tower VIP

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    *shrug* if you're quoting me twice, it means what i said hit a nerve. And I guess deep down inside you probably feel the same. Anger only hides what's inside. Being that defensive and offensive.

    I'm sure you have dictionary words in .com and other extensions, so you can look down on us 2016+ domainers saying we're squatters because we didn't get in early and have "low quality" domains.

    But then that just means everyone who starts domaining after the dictionary ppl are all "bad" and that's how you can cope with being "not a squatter."

    Of course anyone who has a domain that sails more than reggae fee has some value to offer the buyer. That's why they bought it.

    That doesn't mean we're not squatting.
     
  25. TCK

    TCK NameOptions.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Now now, let's not get personal. This is business.

    But it does not sound like you are treating it as such.

    I think you should read the article. Who is calling domainers squatters? You are completely missing the point. No one is looking down on 2016+ domainers or mentioned anything of the sort you wrote.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2019

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