discuss I think some $3000 domains are worth more than other $3000 domains

[Lord Antares]

I know for a fact that some domains purchased in the $300 range at an auction sold at a $3000 range to an end user. I also know many hand regs or bargain bin domains sold for the same range so where does the disparity come from?

While browsing the appraisal section on the forum, I saw a lot of brandable domains get a $4X appraisal and I also saw a lot of EMDs and keyword domains get the same appraisal, even though I'd value the latter a lot more in some cases.

The difference is in sell through rates. I think brandables (specifically made up words or two word combos) can be so utterly specific, that very few people would consider buying them. Whenever they do, they were going for that specific name for a reason and they won't settle for alternatives because there are none similar. On the other hand, more generic domains are easy to think of and will thus attract more buyers. This results in a faster sale, even if the price ends up being the same.

My point is, appraisals don't tend to acknowledge this and this might mislead people. It's easy to appraise a hand reg brandable at $4x and it technically would be right as they tend to sell over at brandbucket and similar websites in that range but there are people who specialize in hand regging and selling brandables who have to struggle to sustain a positive ROI. These people typically need to have large portfolios to have regular sales and don't forget the eternal renewal loop. On the other hand, a portfolio of expensive liquid domains might need to be a fraction of that size to achieve the same number of sales.

This might be obvious to seasoned domainers, but newbies might leave thinking they just got free money after getting their hand reg appraised at $1500; an appraisal which might not even be wrong in a technical sense. Then they will do it again and again, thinking they are multiplying money. I think it might be helpful to indicate this somehow while doing an appraisal.

P.S. I have nothing against brandables. I was using them because they are the easiest example. Obviously, a brandable domain like Neva.com will blow this notion out of the water. I generalized for convenience.

What do you think about this? Discuss.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Auction is nothing but price discovery.

I had never thought about it that way - interesting concept. So auctions that mainly appeal to domainers can be used for wholesale price discovery.

Have any of the brandable places (or somewhere else with retail focus - I guess things like Sedo auctions are wholesale-retail mix) ever tried retail-target auctions where a name with a variety of potential end users is auctioned off after some period of promotion to get noticed? Would be interesting for retail price discovery. I do realize that some brokers announce on social media a premium name and period accepting offers, which is somewhat similar I guess, although submissions not publicly known.

Bob

 

[Lord Antares]

I still don't get what is the disagreement


Inferior and Superior domains are of course there, but that is not the point. All domain pricing is still arbitrary.
Which is also why Auction is so common in the domain industry. Auction is nothing but price discovery. How much a buyer is willing to pay. The rest of the all high value sales are nothing but salesmenship. How good you are in persuading someone who has no idea about the domain industry in buying something you just picked up for 1200 in an auction a few weeks back. because if the buyer was aware of how the industry works, he would have been in That Auction.

Again, saying that Insurance.com is more expensive than Bacassurance.com is not a pattern

But what range the auction is going to end in can be guessed to a statistically significant degree of accuracy. Have a pro domainer vs a noob guess what amount the auction is going to end at. The pro will win. The more auctions they are guessing, the more convincing the pro's victory will be. This means that the prices are not completely "arbitrary", there's a pattern based on various factors.

I had never thought about it that way - interesting concept. So auctions that mainly appeal to domainers can be used for wholesale price discovery.

Have any of the brandable places (or somewhere else with retail focus - I guess things like Sedo auctions are wholesale-retail mix) ever tried retail-target auctions where a name with a variety of potential end users is auctioned off after some period of promotion to get noticed? Would be interesting for retail price discovery. I do realize that some brokers announce on social media a premium name and period accepting offers, which is somewhat similar I guess, although submissions not publicly known.

Bob

Some domainers have reported doing outbound in this manner. They would send a link to their auction to all potential end users and hope for a competitive fight. I don't know what their results are, can't remember if anyone reported success.

 

[blogspotter]

But what range the auction is going to end in can be guessed to a statistically significant degree of accuracy. Have a pro domainer vs a noob guess what amount the auction is going to end at. The pro will win. The more auctions they are guessing, the more convincing the pro's victory will be. This means that the prices are not completely "arbitrary", there's a pattern based on various factors..

We will just agree to disagree. Everyday there are more surprise auction wins that makes no sense. But that is wholesale where most people have a set acquisition price for resale. And the pattern is nothing but the buyer's own logic.

Some domainers have reported doing outbound in this manner. They would send a link to their auction to all potential end users and hope for a competitive fight. I don't know what their results are, can't remember if anyone reported success.

@BuyBrandWeb.com does this successfully. @Bob Hawkes

 

[BuyBrandWeb.com]

We will just agree to disagree. Everyday there are more surprise auction wins that makes no sense. But that is wholesale where most people have a set acquisition price for resale. And the pattern is nothing but the buyer's own logic.



@BuyBrandWeb.com does this successfully. @Bob Hawkes

It works for selected domains only with massive end-users; better to send a mail to 5 qualified leads than spamming hundreds of business owners.

 

[Jimmysun]

All you guys are right, it is just too complicated.

 

[boker]

I know for a fact that some domains purchased in the $300 range at an auction sold at a $3000 range to an end user. I also know many hand regs or bargain bin domains sold for the same range so where does the disparity come from?

While browsing the appraisal section on the forum, I saw a lot of brandable domains get a $4X appraisal and I also saw a lot of EMDs and keyword domains get the same appraisal, even though I'd value the latter a lot more in some cases.

The difference is in sell through rates. I think brandables (specifically made up words or two word combos) can be so utterly specific, that very few people would consider buying them. Whenever they do, they were going for that specific name for a reason and they won't settle for alternatives because there are none similar. On the other hand, more generic domains are easy to think of and will thus attract more buyers. This results in a faster sale, even if the price ends up being the same.

My point is, appraisals don't tend to acknowledge this and this might mislead people. It's easy to appraise a hand reg brandable at $4x and it technically would be right as they tend to sell over at brandbucket and similar websites in that range but there are people who specialize in hand regging and selling brandables who have to struggle to sustain a positive ROI. These people typically need to have large portfolios to have regular sales and don't forget the eternal renewal loop. On the other hand, a portfolio of expensive liquid domains might need to be a fraction of that size to achieve the same number of sales.

This might be obvious to seasoned domainers, but newbies might leave thinking they just got free money after getting their hand reg appraised at $1500; an appraisal which might not even be wrong in a technical sense. Then they will do it again and again, thinking they are multiplying money. I think it might be helpful to indicate this somehow while doing an appraisal.

P.S. I have nothing against brandables. I was using them because they are the easiest example. Obviously, a brandable domain like Neva.com will blow this notion out of the water. I generalized for convenience.

What do you think about this? Discuss.

As far as I know, most brandable marketplaces have STR of 1.5% to 2.5% and as far as I know, most dealing with emds have mostly the same STR, so can't be sure where have you seen the difference. Also, most emds have an acquisition price of at least xxx, compared to brandables, where the acquisition price is x-low xx. Of course, it's easier to sell an EMD acquired for $500, at $3000, and it's harder to sell a brandable acquired for $10 at $3000. The difference, as I see it. is in the price, not in the STR. You can sell a brandable for $3000, but the average price it's closer to 1k, if you count the brandables that are selling at dan, afternic, godaddy and the rest as well. In the same time, you can't see an emd selling for xxx, just if it's a sale to another domainer. Every strategy has it's own ups and downs and there are domainers making money from both.

 

[frank-germany]

But that was the entire premise of the argument. You said it's not possible to evaluate a domain name due to the randomness of the sales. I claimed that it is, as clearly evidenced by patterns above.

My point is, "a domain is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it" is a non-genuine response as there are clearly superior and inferior domains and domainers need to be able to differentiate between them if they don't want to lose money.

the question is:
what is it worth to YOU

and can you wait for the buyer who agrees

 

[NameBuyer.com]

I know for a fact that some domains purchased in the $300 range at an auction sold at a $3000 range to an end user. I also know many hand regs or bargain bin domains sold for the same range so where does the disparity come from?

I think there are a couple factors in play here.

• Some domain investors sell at 10x their purchase price as a general rule
• Speculation in a lower-demand domains vs Selling a proven business names

Investors Selling at 10x their Purchase Price

For those that sell at 10x their purchase price, I would suspect they can achieve sell-thru rates of 3-4%, while someone selling lesser demand domains probably gets 1-1.5% in this price range ($3k).

The question is then, why would investors pay $30k for 100 names when others are spending just $850-$2,000 for 100 names.

Like it was mentioned above, I think this comes down to sell-thru rate and the demand for the domain. Plus, their registration carrying costs (per name) will be less with a model like this. If you can achieve a 4% sell-thru rate that would yield $12,000 per year for every 100 domains and only $850 in renewal fees (using the $3k per sale example), that's pretty good after the initial purchase. For the lower-demand domain portfolio, the revenue could be as low as $3,000 per year (at 1%), with $850 in renewal fees. If I wanted a high-power small portfolio, you can get some great revenue and profit margins like this with just 300 domains. If you had 300 domains achieving 4% sell-thru, that would be $36k, with a nice $32.2k in profit after purchasing replacement domains.

What a lot of people also don't factor in is time. To get to 8,000 domains it took me 100s of hours, but for someone to get to 100, 200, or 300 domains, there is far less time invested, and it is much more manageable. It is also much easier to find decent names at auction for $200-$300.

Speculation in Lower-Demand Domains vs Proven Business Names

The other factor that comes into play is investors buying lower demand domains (and speculating there will be future demand) vs proven business names (with higher confidence there could be a buyer). For lower quality names with less demand, there is more speculation that is being done, and some people aren't good at speculation. So for some, it is probably much easier for them (skill-wise) to invest in a strong brand that 3-4 other businesses are already using.

I mentioned this in detail in the post below:

I sold PlanToGrow(dot)com in March for $24,500. I paid $19.47 for it 4 years earlier. There wasn't any demand when I purchased it, and no notable sites, but I could envision it for a marketing campaign or an organization. This was speculation in a Lower Demand Domain, but I've gotten to be pretty good at my speculation over the years.

Compare that to MetroAutoSales(dot)com that I purchased via Auction in May for $740. If you do a search for Metro Auto Sales on Google, there are a ton of results from actual car dealerships. These businesses have an inventory of cars that are valued at $200k to over $500k (ex. 40 cars x $10,000 each). A business like this potentially spends a lot on marketing and when comparing it to the products they sell, buying a domain for $30k is not a big deal. This is an investment in a Proven Business Name.

So when buying a domain you are either a speculator buying lower demand names or an investment analyst buying proven business names. If you're speculating, you better have a knack for it, or work at improving it by paying attention to business names and advertising trends. If you don't have skills in that area, you can focus on investing in proven business names. It is much easier to determine a value for a proven business name. Just look at the current businesses, determine what the best version of that business would look like, and price accordingly (similar to what I did for MetroAutoSales above). Come up with some simple numbers in a spreadsheet. A good example I've used in the past is my domain ASliceAbove(dot)com. To single pizza restaurant with this name, the domain may be worth $1,750, but to a chain with 10-15 locations, it could be worth $20k or much more.

Two Generalized Types of Successful Domain Investing

• Speculation of Lower Demand Domains - Domains where the use of the term is widespread and obvious (or looks good as a brandable), but there is little or no current use. No businesses with significant earnings are using the phrase. (example PlanToGrow(dot)com)

• Investment in Proven Business Names - Domains where there is at least some significant use in commerce. (example MetroAutoSales(dot)com)

https://www.namepros.com/threads/sell-through-rates.1193687/#post-7904404

 

[poweredbyme]

Price is neither determined by buyer nor by seller. Anyone who took econ101 course would know this.

 

[Jimmysun]

All connected by love, that’s why prices volatile and unpredictable.

 

[Dr. Dogmain]

I know for a fact that some domains purchased in the $300 range at an auction sold at a $3000 range to an end user. I also know many hand regs or bargain bin domains sold for the same range so where does the disparity come from?

While browsing the appraisal section on the forum, I saw a lot of brandable domains get a $4X appraisal and I also saw a lot of EMDs and keyword domains get the same appraisal, even though I'd value the latter a lot more in some cases.

The difference is in sell through rates. I think brandables (specifically made up words or two word combos) can be so utterly specific, that very few people would consider buying them. Whenever they do, they were going for that specific name for a reason and they won't settle for alternatives because there are none similar. On the other hand, more generic domains are easy to think of and will thus attract more buyers. This results in a faster sale, even if the price ends up being the same.

My point is, appraisals don't tend to acknowledge this and this might mislead people. It's easy to appraise a hand reg brandable at $4x and it technically would be right as they tend to sell over at brandbucket and similar websites in that range but there are people who specialize in hand regging and selling brandables who have to struggle to sustain a positive ROI. These people typically need to have large portfolios to have regular sales and don't forget the eternal renewal loop. On the other hand, a portfolio of expensive liquid domains might need to be a fraction of that size to achieve the same number of sales.

This might be obvious to seasoned domainers, but newbies might leave thinking they just got free money after getting their hand reg appraised at $1500; an appraisal which might not even be wrong in a technical sense. Then they will do it again and again, thinking they are multiplying money. I think it might be helpful to indicate this somehow while doing an appraisal.

P.S. I have nothing against brandables. I was using them because they are the easiest example. Obviously, a brandable domain like Neva.com will blow this notion out of the water. I generalized for convenience.

What do you think about this? Discuss.

The sum of all GoDaddy appraisals is higher than the market cap.

Price is neither determined by buyer nor by seller. Anyone who took econ101 course would know this.

The point here was that all of the appraisals cannot be correct.

 

[Kuffy]

There seems to be a lot of discussion around a $3,000 price point. I've been out of domaining for a couple of years, so I am not up to speed with values, but I suspect that the lock downs have increased the values of some names. Is $3,000 a good BIN price for an "OK" .com in the current market? At least it indicates that the name is available for sale.

 

[blogspotter]

There seems to be a lot of discussion around a $3,000 price point. I've been out of domaining for a couple of years, so I am not up to speed with values, but I suspect that the lock downs have increased the values of some names. Is $3,000 a good BIN price for an "OK" .com in the current market? At least it indicates that the name is available for sale.

Whole sale/Auction prices have gone up for sure, but there are a lot of retail sales at the 1300-3000 levels maybe due to the brandable market places.
"OK" is subjective.
Just at the domain name sold thread here. The price is still all over the place, skewed by the occasional high value sales for SEO domains

Check out this thread:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/report-completed-domain-name-sales-here.83628 it is 800 pages +

This too:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/discuss-and-report-any-details-of-domain-name-sales.998009/page-65

And also in the niche domain forums. Lots of sales

 

[Mike Goodman]

Price is neither determined by buyer nor by seller. Anyone who took econ101 course would know this.

Anybody who has taken any officially accredited economics course is only too aware it is based upon armchair philosophy totally unrelated to anything going on in the real world.

Now, back to this discussion. I have got a headache.

 

[poweredbyme]

Anybody who has taken any officially accredited economics course is only too aware it is based upon armchair philosophy totally unrelated to anything going on in the real world.

Now, back to this discussion. I have got a headache.

If it was correct anything in the real world would be irrelevant to anything going in the real world.

The point here was that all of the appraisals cannot be correct.

There are 2 opinions in the previous posts:
One opinion says price is determined by buyer and the another opinion says price is determined by seller. Both of them is incorrect. Price is determined by market in a free market economy.

That means no single entity or person has enough power to control market prices. Every goods in every market have a market price. As each domain is unique, people in domain market tend to think they can set any price they wish, based on scarcity, based on how much buyer needs it or how urgently seller needs cash. Those are wrong thoughts.

Domainers usually forget they operate in domain market and each domain has a market price like other goods such as oil, rice, computers, etc. Average price per domain can be $30, $300, $3,000 or $30,000. Price is just numbers, means nothing. Because true profits and losses are determined mostly competiton power in market. You can not make true profit or true loss form something that you can't control. So appraisals are not needed, their accuracy has no importance.

Main reason of those wrong thoughts is that many sellers and buyers in every markets think they have made extra profits by price manupulations using some marketing/promotion/purchase strategies and tactics. In fact those extra profits are not sustainable and frequently turn into extra losses. People tend to ignore frequent negative events, keep rare positive events in mind. All they have to do is to bring domains to the market that have demand and not to waste their energy to create extra demand that can not exist naturally in the real world.

 

[Mike Goodman]

Price is determined by market in a free market economy.

This fundamentally flawed thesis is a keystone of the classical and neoclassical theories of economics.It has been debunked by the facts - real data, not exaggerated posturing - time and again yet its adherents cling onto it as though it were some kind of religious shibboleth that had appeared in writing carved in stone and as though no human hand could possibly have been near it.

Prices vary according to a whole variety of factors including alternatives, relative costs, tastes, liquidity and, not least of all, legislation and regulation. These are all human factors,

Without humanity there is no market. Markets are man-made phenomena. They can be made, altered and destroyed by human beings. Just walk into a supermarket and see the rows of cans of beans, all of an indiscernible, if any, difference beyond the label.

Apply that information to domain names and it becomes obvious a price of a single domain is determined between seller and buyer. Had it been another seller and/or another buyer the price could have been very different.

Domain names are indeed unique. We are also talking about names on the aftermarket. Aka the second hand market, used market. Other than for homogeneous commodities, I am not aware of any second hand market where prices are fixed. Cars, watches, jewellery, gemstones, comics, stamps, used items which are widely traded and the prices are always negotiable. There is no fixed "market" price for such goods, never has been and to the consternation of domainers, never will be.

Which all goes to show "the market" in this case is two people and what they eventually agree upon. Given the variation in personalities, no wonder economists have always failed to define a market since first making the absurd statement that there is some natural law to them around 250 years ago.

 

[bmugford]

Apply that information to domain names and it becomes obvious a price of a single domain is determined between seller and buyer. Had it been another seller and/or another buyer the price could have been very different.

Domain names are indeed unique. We are also talking about names on the aftermarket. Aka the second hand market, used market. Other than for homogeneous commodities, I am not aware of any second hand market where prices are fixed. Cars, watches, jewellery, gemstones, comics, stamps, used items which are widely traded and the prices are always negotiable. There is no fixed "market" price for such goods, never has been and to the consternation of domainers, never will be.

Exactly. Every domain is unique and has subjective value.

The same domain sale could have vastly different results depending on the buyer, seller, and set of circumstances around it.

However, this subjective value and inefficient market is what creates a major opportunity for domain investors.

Brad

 

[Recons.Com]

@Lord Antares

Kudos for having the ability to think that deep. You are absolutely right that end user price is just one variable and probability of sale in any given year at that price is another.

This also might explain why and how HD can afford to pay up to 12% of GD appraisal for some names at auctions. Many of those names, when priced at $2000-5000 range, might have STR way higher than the industry measuring stick of 1%.

At least subconsciously, many investors have a feel for the concept. That is why you can see them battle out for some names at way higher prices, although they realize they'd be lucky to sell it at 4x to 10x of the winning bid, while for typical brandables they often expect 100x to 200x of purchase price.

 

[Lord Antares]

This fundamentally flawed thesis is a keystone of the classical and neoclassical theories of economics.It has been debunked by the facts - real data, not exaggerated posturing - time and again yet its adherents cling onto it as though it were some kind of religious shibboleth that had appeared in writing carved in stone and as though no human hand could possibly have been near it.

Prices vary according to a whole variety of factors including alternatives, relative costs, tastes, liquidity and, not least of all, legislation and regulation. These are all human factors,

Without humanity there is no market. Markets are man-made phenomena. They can be made, altered and destroyed by human beings. Just walk into a supermarket and see the rows of cans of beans, all of an indiscernible, if any, difference beyond the label.

Apply that information to domain names and it becomes obvious a price of a single domain is determined between seller and buyer. Had it been another seller and/or another buyer the price could have been very different.

Domain names are indeed unique. We are also talking about names on the aftermarket. Aka the second hand market, used market. Other than for homogeneous commodities, I am not aware of any second hand market where prices are fixed. Cars, watches, jewellery, gemstones, comics, stamps, used items which are widely traded and the prices are always negotiable. There is no fixed "market" price for such goods, never has been and to the consternation of domainers, never will be.

Which all goes to show "the market" in this case is two people and what they eventually agree upon. Given the variation in personalities, no wonder economists have always failed to define a market since first making the absurd statement that there is some natural law to them around 250 years ago.

Market price isn't a mathematical term. You can't input variables into an equation and derive a fixed price for a product sold by every seller.

Market price is a range based on supply and demand (as well as manufacturing costs etc.). Ferraris have their market prices; Renaults have theirs. It is understood that ferraris have a higher market price than Renaults. Those prices are usually similar and the fact that some weirdo can hypothetically sell you a ferrari for $20 doesn't mean that the basics of economy have been refuted.
It means you bought a Ferrari below market price.

For domains it's much more loose by virtue of the fact that every single domain name is unique (unlike most other goods). Therefore, market price is less well known and understood by everyone.
However, all domains have a higher or lesser chance of being sold for a given price. I think being a good domainer means telling them apart.

@Lord Antares

Kudos for having the ability to think that deep. You are absolutely right that end user price is just one variable and probability of sale in any given year at that price is another.

This also might explain why and how HD can afford to pay up to 12% of GD appraisal for some names at auctions. Many of those names, when priced at $2000-5000 range, might have STR way higher than the industry measuring stick of 1%.

At least subconsciously, many investors have a feel for the concept. That is why you can see them battle out for some names at way higher prices, although they realize they'd be lucky to sell it at 4x to 10x of the winning bid, while for typical brandables they often expect 100x to 200x of purchase price.

Yes, I actually had you in mind when I wrote that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are one of the people who have a large portfolio of mostly cheaper domains which don't have a very high str rate, but have an immensely high ROI to compensate.

At certain numbers, that strategy could be interchangeable with the opposite strategy of owning very few highly expensive domains.

 

[Recons.Com]

Market price isn't a mathematical term. You can't input variables into an equation and derive a fixed price for a product sold by every seller.

Market price is a range based on supply and demand (as well as manufacturing costs etc.). Ferraris have their market prices; Renaults have theirs. It is understood that ferraris have a higher market price than Renaults. Those prices are usually similar and the fact that some weirdo can hypothetically sell you a ferrari for $20 doesn't mean that the basics of economy have been refuted.
It means you bought a Ferrari below market price.

For domains it's much more loose by virtue of the fact that every single domain name is unique (unlike most other goods). Therefore, market price is less well known and understood by everyone.
However, all domains have a higher or lesser chance of being sold for a given price. I think being a good domainer means telling them apart.



Yes, I actually had you in mind when I wrote that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are one of the people who have a large portfolio of mostly cheaper domains which don't have a very high str rate, but have an immensely high ROI to compensate.

At certain numbers, that strategy could be interchangeable with the opposite strategy of owning very few highly expensive domains.

Well, not sure if that is compliment )) I have two baskets... Names that cost xxx to xxxx to acquire and priced at mid xxxx to low-mid xxxxx, and names that cost $xx to acquire and priced in $2k-5k range.

Acquisition price is not necessarily the indicator of the value of the name. Name like Cecond I'd gladly pay xxx to acquire, but was lucky to get from closeouts...

Cheaper is also a relative term. The same name can be priced for sale at mid xxx or mid xxxx or even at xxxxx in Mann's case. A name could have sold at mid xxxx, but if you priced it at xxx, you'd never know.

If you accidentally own a da Vinci painting and sell it for $xxxx, it doesn't mean the name is cheap, it is that the seller doesn't know the value.

Now, regarding my sale prices, I price a lot of them in $2k-3k range, only because I can still find enough of supply on the buying end. If that dries out, then my prices would reflect that. Another reason is the pandemic, of course, that has affected the buying ability of customers.

My current sell through is probably in 1.2% to 1.5% range and the target STR is in 1.5%-2% range for names priced in $2k-$3k range.

 

[Lord Antares]

Well, not sure if that is compliment )) I have two baskets... Names that cost xxx to xxxx to acquire and priced at mid xxxx to low-mid xxxxx, and names that cost $xx to acquire and priced in $2k-5k range.

Acquisition price is not necessarily the indicator of the value of the name. Name like Cecond I'd gladly pay xxx to acquire, but was lucky to get from closeouts...

Cheaper is also a relative term. The same name can be priced for sale at mid xxx or mid xxxx or even at xxxxx in Mann's case. A name could have sold at mid xxxx, but if you priced it at xxx, you'd never know.

If you accidentally own a da Vinci painting and sell it for $xxxx, it doesn't mean the name is cheap, it is that the seller doesn't know the value.

Now, regarding my sale prices, I price a lot of them in $2k-3k range, only because I can still find enough of supply on the buying end. If that dries out, then my prices would reflect that. Another reason is the pandemic, of course, that has affected the buying ability of customers.

My current sell through is probably in 1.2% to 1.5% range and the target STR is in 1.5%-2% range for names priced in $2k-$3k range.

It was neither a compliment nor an insult, simply a statement. I believe there's nothing wrong in hand regging lots of names if you know what you're doing and can sell them in high enough quantities and there's nothing wrong with holding a few expensive names. You might be in the middle but I seem to recall you saying somewhere that you buy a lot of closeouts and that's why I thought of you.

Owning cheap domains is not necessarily a flaw - it can be a strategy.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I might have mistaken you for Ategy.

 

[Recons.Com]

It was neither a compliment nor an insult, simply a statement. I believe there's nothing wrong in hand regging lots of names if you know what you're doing and can sell them in high enough quantities and there's nothing wrong with holding a few expensive names. You might be in the middle but I seem to recall you saying somewhere that you buy a lot of closeouts and that's why I thought of you.

Owning cheap domains is not necessarily a flaw - it can be a strategy.

EDIT: I'm sorry, I might have mistaken you for Ategy.

I have about 380 LLLL.coms, not counting names like manslaughter.com assurer.com braunschweig.com etc. That might be larger than the whole portfolio for many.

So, again, I don't put all eggs in the same basket.

Don't have many hand regs, but do buy a lot in closeouts too. That doesn't factor in the value of my time. As it might take 20 min to 1 hour spent per good name, screening, analyzing etc.

 

[Lord Antares]

I have about 380 LLLL.coms, not counting names like manslaughter.com assurer.com braunschweig.com etc. That might be larger than the whole portfolio for many.

So, again, I don't put all eggs in the same basket.

Don't have many hand regs, but do buy a lot in closeouts too. That doesn't factor in the value of my time. As it might take 20 min to 1 hour spent per good name, screening, analyzing etc.

OK then I mistook you for someone else.

 

[Dr. Dogmain]

If it was correct anything in the real world would be irrelevant to anything going in the real world.



There are 2 opinions in the previous posts:
One opinion says price is determined by buyer and the another opinion says price is determined by seller. Both of them is incorrect. Price is determined by market in a free market economy.

That means no single entity or person has enough power to control market prices. Every goods in every market have a market price. As each domain is unique, people in domain market tend to think they can set any price they wish, based on scarcity, based on how much buyer needs it or how urgently seller needs cash. Those are wrong thoughts.

Domainers usually forget they operate in domain market and each domain has a market price like other goods such as oil, rice, computers, etc. Average price per domain can be $30, $300, $3,000 or $30,000. Price is just numbers, means nothing. Because true profits and losses are determined mostly competiton power in market. You can not make true profit or true loss form something that you can't control. So appraisals are not needed, their accuracy has no importance.

Main reason of those wrong thoughts is that many sellers and buyers in every markets think they have made extra profits by price manupulations using some marketing/promotion/purchase strategies and tactics. In fact those extra profits are not sustainable and frequently turn into extra losses. People tend to ignore frequent negative events, keep rare positive events in mind. All they have to do is to bring domains to the market that have demand and not to waste their energy to create extra demand that can not exist naturally in the real world.

I agree with you. The idea here was, thay if someone bought all the domains with the appraisal prices, they would have to pay an insanely high price. This is often used when cryptocurrency predictions seem suspiciously high

 

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This fundamentally flawed thesis is a keystone of the classical and neoclassical theories of economics.It has been debunked by the facts - real data, not exaggerated posturing - time and again yet its adherents cling onto it as though it were some kind of religious shibboleth that had appeared in writing carved in stone and as though no human hand could possibly have been near it.

You say this thesis is incorrect.

Prices vary according to a whole variety of factors including alternatives, relative costs, tastes, liquidity and, not least of all, legislation and regulation. These are all human factors,

Without humanity there is no market. Markets are man-made phenomena. They can be made, altered and destroyed by human beings. Just walk into a supermarket and see the rows of cans of beans, all of an indiscernible, if any, difference beyond the label.

Apply that information to domain names and it becomes obvious a price of a single domain is determined between seller and buyer. Had it been another seller and/or another buyer the price could have been very different.

I agree. These are correct points.

Domain names are indeed unique. We are also talking about names on the aftermarket. Aka the second hand market, used market. Other than for homogeneous commodities, I am not aware of any second hand market where prices are fixed. Cars, watches, jewellery, gemstones, comics, stamps, used items which are widely traded and the prices are always negotiable. There is no fixed "market" price for such goods, never has been and to the consternation of domainers, never will be.

Market price has to be fixed in order to become market price? Is there any goods or service with fixed price?
I don't know something sold for an absolute fixed price for a long time. All prices are constantly changing for the factors you mentioned above: "alternatives, relative costs, tastes, liquidity and, not least of all, legislation and regulation. These are all human factors,"

Market price is a price range, not a fixed price. It fluctuates within a range that is more or less expected or predictable. For instance, assume average apartment price is $300k in somewhere, assume $300k is the average of several prices of in $100k - $1M range. In such a market, a potential buyer can predict finding an apartment for $10k in that town or street is very less likely, Then he/she doesn't waste time for finding an apartment for under $100k, looks for something in $200k - $500k range there or tries his/her chance in other cities with cheaper apartments. This is the market price I refer to.

EUR/USD parity, Gold, Oil prices, share prices, cans of beans with different brands in a market roof, all of those prices are not fixed, are moving in a predictable min-max range. So we are able to make financial forecasts. We don't go to supermarket for monthly shopping with $100k or $10. Because prices in the supermarket are changing in a predictable range each month we shop.

If the prices were fixed or not predictable, economy would collapse. Domain prices are the same. Being unique doesn't make totally different price and market characteristics. There other unique goods like artworks. All of them have a market price range which all buyers and sellers usually correctly predict, like any domainer does not think to buy a 3L com for $100 - 500. Because there is a domain market and market prices. Every goods or services have a market. If there is a price, there is a market.

Being unique just makes the price range wider, therefore, harder to predict for average Joe. But there is always a market price range. Such markets are not for average Joes.

Which all goes to show "the market" in this case is two people and what they eventually agree upon. Given the variation in personalities, no wonder economists have always failed to define a market since first making the absurd statement that there is some natural law to them around 250 years ago.

I don't think economists have always failed. Economics is just a science like other sciences. If economics has always failed, then all sciences would have been always failed. It's the politicians who have always failed for unrealistic financial promises, not economics.