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I need some help with serious GoDaddy/Afternic issue!

Located in Domain Marketplace Reviews, started by indiegrind, May 29, 2020

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  1. indiegrind

    indiegrind Established Member

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    Joe emailed me saying this is still from the same sale as part of the undoing of the sale. I'm not sure why or how. But obviously there is a big communcation gap with staff.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
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  2. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    I did email back with more information.

    Just to give everyone watching this a bit more of an explanation without any specific account details. We do not unwind a lot of sales. The vast majority of our sales are good sales. Thus we do not have an automated way to undo them so the process is very manual and involves several parties and a lot of automation that is designed to sell, not "unsell". The domain is not sold, it did not re-sell, it is still in the account and will not move. The messages and such are automated and the teams are working on stopping the systems the rest of the way. There are lots of moving parts in a sale on our back end and undoing them usually takes some time but he is not in danger of losing the domain, the domain did not sell again, and it will not move.
     
  3. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com VIP Gold Account

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    WOW ... this thread is just the exact reality of GoDaddy in general. Good customer service .. generally end up with the right outcome .. but lots of bugs, and problematic automated miscommunications, potential security risks and needless headaches!

    Hey Joe .. thanks for helping @indiegrind .. but I think what you might be missing here is we all want to know WHY was the domain available for sale in the first place?

    Many of us have been pointing out potential flaws in the Afternic system (and many other things all over GD's own platform). We ALL know there is some combination of flawed logic, confusing communications, security holes and/or outright bugs.

    I've heard the "passed it up to the proper team to fix ..." so many times with GD that it's really become meaningless. I understand that sometimes you can't be too detailed about current issues because exposing a security flaw would put everybody at worse risk.

    But can you really finally reassure us that FINALLY someone at GoDaddy understands that there is a problem here .. and more importantly, that finally someone will actually coordinate with all the involved departments to address and solve the problem?

    Replying to this with a "I can't explain the details while the issue isn't closed 100%" is an acceptable answer .. for now. But please do state that clearly .. and .. also state that you will return to explain and detail the fix once it is done.


    I know it might seem like some of us always are on your backs for various problems at GD. But as I've said many times .. unlike what many conspiracy theorists think, I know GoDaddy is not some big evil mego-corporation out to steal from domainers. Customer service at GD is very good. But it's just that as a result of time and growth, the GD platform really has a lot of issues .. both technical .. and also with the much more elusive to fix communications problems (both with FAQs/help, and specifically with GD is confusing automated emails). I know it's not a quick or easy fix .. but it's been an issue for years .. and I've never once heard from a GD employee saying .. yes .. it is a problem .. and we are doing A, B, C and Z to fix and address the problems.

    As customers we don't expect it all to be fixed overnight .. but we'd like there to be a sincere acknowledgement of there being a broad problem .. and that there are actual tangible plans in motion to resolve the biggest issues sooner than later.


    OK .. lecture over! :) lol
     
  4. carob

    carob Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    About this comment that was Ategy's response to @Joe Styler
    @Joe Styler as well as telling us the solution, can you tell us the problem?

    People here have been suggesting, then assuming, that @indiegrind mistakenly clicked on a link in an authorise-fast-transfer-on-this-domain email from Godaddy which did not specify the domain and was sent to him in error.

    But we actually do not know if that was the case and I don't think we can just assume that - the problem may lie elsewhere, in which case the solution lies elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  5. Ategy

    Ategy NameCult.com VIP Gold Account

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    Yup .. that's part of the bigger problem systemic throughout much of GoDaddy's automated emails. It may very well be that for some things there actually isn't a technical bug .. but instead it's simply a lack of clarity that leads to confusion. The issue was there even for things as simple as pushing/transferring domains.

    Fixing/updating/correcting communications can actually be quite a bit more difficult than fixing bugs. Because generally with a bug you'll get an error .. or an unwanted behaviour. But with bad information, you really need to do the hard work and go through everything and map out all the potential usages for each templated message. It's a nightmare when you've upgraded and tweaked countless things all over the place over many years. Usually it's never done because all the excitement is in building and delivering the actual functionality of the features. But documentation, clarity and communication are just as important. Again .. this is not unique to GoDaddy .. it's prevalent in any company that has grown and/or upgraded over the years. It's dull and boring work .. but it needs to be done.
     
  6. Sutruk

    Sutruk Established Member

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    The problem is that the email does not specify the Afternic Username who requested the Fast Transfer.
    The problem is that any Afternic user is able to add a domain for sale there that he doesn't own. There isn't any kind of domain owner verification when adding domains at Afternic.
    The problem is the existence of Fast Transfer, a feature that by-pass the domain owner intervention for a domain transfer or push.
    For what's useful the fast transfer? To gain 1 day on the domain transfer? Godaddy owner can approve the domain transfer once the domain has been sold, without waiting the 5 day transfer period, but still having control and knowledge of the domain transfer.
    So, for what or who is useful the Fast Transfer?
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  7. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    There are a lot of benefits. One of the top ones is that opting in gives your domains a much better chance of selling as much as 2-1 over non opted in domains. The amount of network partners who show your domain and as a result the number of end users who see it increases dramatically. https://www.afternic.com/sell-domains explains some of the benefits. 25 million to 75 million potential end user views a month is a big difference as one example.
     
  8. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    Here is an example of the opt in notice Godaddy sends (attached). It does tell you that you are agreeing to list your domain for sale on Afternic and the domain name. As I stated above we can work on making the process clearer.

    The way that a fast transfer works is very similar to a normal transfer you would do every day on your own. The big difference is the automation involved that allows the buyer and seller to move the domain, receive the domain, get paid, etc without manual actions. Those actions are done up front so at the time of the sale they can be processed immediately.

    I dont want to get too technical on the transfer process and the rules from ICANN and Verisign regarding transfers so I will be big picture here. There are certain things that need to take place for a transfer of ownership to happen. One of them is the current domain owner agreeing and authorizing the transfer where the domain name is registered. So if you have a domain at Network Solutions or Dynadot and you want to sell it on Afternic you go to Afternic and list that domain name for sale. Afternic does some checks on the ownership and then for Fast transfer it asks the registrar where the domain name is registered if the domain can be transferred - just like a usual transfer would ask the same questions. Are there any locks, if so what kind, when do they end, etc. The registrar holds all those answers and determines if that domain can be transferred based on current transfer rules in place by the registry, registrar and ICANN. Easy example is I just registered a domain name as a hand reg, there is a 60 day lock on that new registration from ICANN. The registrar will say no this name cannot transfer until X Date in the future. The registrar where the domain is registered must be ok with the transfer meeting all the requirements and then they contact the domain owner at their registrar.

    So when someone lists a domain at Afternic, we have insight into that. We ask the registrar if the name can be fast transferred. They determine that and then if/when it can be they send the email to the domain owner on record at their registrar and ask them if they want to sell this domain on Afternic and if so they should click the agreement link to authorize the transfer of the domain when it sells in the future. I included a picture of the email GoDaddy sends as a registrar, but you may see a different type of template when agreeing to sell your domain registered at Tucows or HiChina. The registrars are the ones who have to ask you if you are ok with transferring the domain and you need to tell them yes you are because the registrar owns the relationship with you and they are the ones releasing the domain to be transferred on your behalf and they cannot do that without an explicit agreement from you to transfer the domain. You cannot agree to transfer a domain via Afternic because we have no authority by ourselves to move your domain.

    Hopefully I am being clear up to this point. Afternic is the place you go to list your domain for sale, the registrar is the place that has to get you to agree to transfer the domain once it sells on Afternic. Once you agree to their email saying that it is indeed you who listed the domain for sale at Afternic and that you agree to it transferring once it sells, then they communicate that back to us and we enable the listing via Fast Transfer and it goes out to the over 100 network partners for sale.

    So while Afternic and GoDaddy are owned by the same parent company and we can do more to make this experience clearer and better for names we can see both sides of, (listing and registrar side) there are a lot of other registrars in this network that we do not control. They have to tell you that Afternic is asking to sell your domain and ask you if you agree to that sale being transferred when it sells, but the wording and presentation of that email and the rules around it are ultimately guided by them as your registrar of record for the domain.

    At the end of the day no one wants you to have a bad experience and no company or registrar wants to have you sell a domain or move a domain you did not want to. Bottom line though is we cannot move a domain from your account and sell it in fast transfer unless you have at some point at your registrar where the domain is registered clicked that you agree to transfer it. If that is not agreed to the domain cannot move.

    Could the process be better? Yes. I have already said that we have some take aways from this where we can improve and we will work on them. We are already also planning on some improvements with the listing ownership verification like txt records at some point and a variety of other things to help improve that aspect of the listing process. Having said that, selling a domain someone did not want to sell is not a common occurrence, it is really pretty rare in the current state. When it happens we can unwind it if needed as we did here. We have plans to make it even more rare as a result of this. Our top priority really is and has been our customers and we will always do what we can to help them.
     

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  9. scrsteven

    scrsteven Top Member PRO VIP ICA Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    For names registered at GoDaddy at least, you could in theory include the Afternic username of the person who requested the listing, in that email. That would be very helpful in preventing errant listings (and a side benefit of encouraging people to hold their names at GoDaddy). Many of us get these listing-approval emails daily. When I click, I'm just hoping it's approving the names for listing in my afternic account and not someone else's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  10. Sutruk

    Sutruk Established Member

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    Thanks for the response Joe.
    I have no doubt of the benefits of the Fast Transfer network, as it is clearly wider than the normal network.

    What I say, is that you can set up the same network without having to push immediately the domain to another registrar. At least at registrars with the option of approving and speeding up the transfer at the domain owner's side, like Godaddy and many others have.

    The buyer will just need to wait even less than 1 day to get the domain, after domain owner sends the Auth Code and approve the tranfer. And doing this everybody will be sure the domain owner is aware of the sale and aware of the domain transfer to other registrar, as he will need to approve the transfer at his registrar.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  11. Sutruk

    Sutruk Established Member

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    This is the important issue Joe.

    You just need to set up the Afternic system to verify the domain ownership before accepting the domain for sale there, just like you have already done in order to list domains for sale at Godaddy.

    At Godaddy you need to upload a TXT file at your registrar's DNS to verify the domain ownership. Just place this step also at Afternic, and you will have the peace of mind that nobody will place domains for sale at Afternic they don't own.

    Just imagine someone having their business domain registered at Godaddy. One day he gets an email from Godaddy requesting for Fast Transfer at Afternic. They don't have a clue about what's Afternic or Fast Tranfer, but it's a Godaddy email, they are a bit busy at work, and they click on approve... just think what will happen next.

    The normal domain tranfer process is set up, as you already know, in order to notify the domain owner, and to involve the owner in the transfer process. He needs to request the Auth Code, and approve the transfer at his registrar, if he wants to speed up the transfer.

    A security measure that the Fast Transfer network system bypass just by clicking on one email, relying that hopefully the domain owner understands what he is clicking.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
  12. Don Gondon

    Don Gondon Established Member

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    They don't need to "include it in email" in a form of text or message of some kind, they need to have the approval action code login-dependant, with the username that has the domain. If user is already logged in with the default browser and the domain is with their username, it happens in just a single click. If user is not logged in, they have to log in first, and after login there is an attempt to do the approval action, which is a success only if the username matches the user, otherwise the warning should be issued both for the user and the staff so they could look into why the domain is listed with somebody else.

    That is general security practice for email-based actions. Even a very small online store is likely going to have you log in first before showing "your order history" through an email link.
     
  13. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    Yes that was part of the discussion what we could do on the GoDaddy side of things.
     
  14. sircc

    sircc Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    A third, unique, identifying nameserver could work, no? Dan.com are using this method to validate ownership now.
     
  15. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    We are considering several options in conjunction with each other to help customers solve for this various DNS changes would help such as txt records or nameservers.
     
  16. pteracuda

    pteracuda Established Member

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    I just know that Godaddy sucks. When I first signed up I got a package with unlimited emails, was suppose to be a year hosting plan with option of renewing but very shortly after purchasing and starting to build my website, Godaddy stripped that from my account telling me it never existed to begin with despite the disappearing emails.

    Had numerous scam calls which I complained about for 2 years, and Godaddy finally just states recently they'll redact whois info to help combat this (too little too late in my opinion).

    Had Godaddy cut my domain reseller profits, while promising new software and never providing it.

    Godaddy is one of the absolute worst. I've moved most all my domains away from there. They charge more, they steal all the time from me.

    The fact you are here claiming someone stole from you, and Godaddy is mentioned, is not at all a surprise to me because they have stolen a lot from me that I've paid them for too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
  17. pteracuda

    pteracuda Established Member

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    Even had a supervisor on the phone one day making threats to change my personal information in my account. Godaddy is the absolute worst, if you're looking for trustworthy.
     

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