Unstoppable Domains

How to rate the rareness of domains

Labeled as advice in Domain Beginners, started by zephie, Jan 18, 2021

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  1. zephie

    zephie Upgraded Member Blue Account

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    What factors would you use to measure the rareness of a domain?

    Currently considering a combination of the following:
    • character count (the fewer the better)
    • TLD desirability (.com > .io)
    • age (how long ago was the domain first registered)
    • real English words
    What else should be considered? How would you rank these in order of importance?

    My site Zephie tries to rank how rare a domain is and assigns the domain "zephs" - rareness points. Would like to make the points reflect how collectors think about how rare a domain really is.
     
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  2. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    First off, welcome to NamePros.

    I'm sorry but IMO your beginning premise is wrong.

    Domains aren't rare because there is exactly one domain in each extension so they can't be rare.

    Def: Rare - seldom occurring or found

    I'd say domains can be unique or even better distinctive but not rare. And yes I know many people use the term rare to hype their domains.

    But I guess it comes down to how you view what is rare.

    This topic was recently discussed at length in another post which I'll try to find and link to if I find it.

    But, if you mean the intrinsic value of domains being different based on the words and letters it contains then yes there are obvious differences that can be quantified and that difference in value can be estimated.

    I'd begin by looking at this article about Letter frequency. Hope that helps.

    About your list, yes those are all good factors but it's going to take some advanced AI to rank what really is worth more. Notice I didn't say which is rarer?

    The AI will not only need to factor proper grammar and word use but also predict what words will sell and for how much and that isn't going to be easy.

    If I come up with anything more I'll add to this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  3. AEProgram

    AEProgram Top Contributor VIP Blue Account

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    The more extensions its taken in the more rare and the more active sites using similar names (your domain: hotpizza.com others using: hotpizzatx hotpizzaca) the more value.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  4. CraigD

    CraigD Top Contributor VIP

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  5. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    You actually hit upon the reason a valuable domain isn't rare.

    By having lots of extensions the value increases but that is the opposite of rare.

    Also, when a lot of other domains use the same terms in the domain the value goes up. So the real worth is not being rare but being the leader of the pack or being the best of a lot of similar choices.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  6. Berserker

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    Each domain is unique, that's for sure. You're right there is no "rare" or not, there (or they are all rare!). But you can create "categories", and these categories could be more or less "rare". I guess this is the underlying unsaid thing: It's not about the domain itself being rare, but about the domain belonging to a "rare" CATEGORY of domains.

    There are only 26*26 "LL.com" for example. Thus, a LL.com is "rare".
    There are only so many dictionary words, only so much SHORT dictionary words, only so much 2 words combination, etc.
    You can probably define some categories like this and assess the rarity pretty precisely.

    Now, often used terms, number of extensions registered, age (which is not necessarily representative of anything), etc. have nothing to do with rarity, but indicate DEMAND.

    Rarity = Less offer, because there are less available. Demand = More sought after. Both make prices go up, especially the combination of the 2, but it's two different things, IMHO.
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes Top Member NameTalent VIP Gold Account Trusted Blogger

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    I think one needs to start with a definition of what rareness is, or perhaps redefine whether it is rareness, or something else like quality or value that you are trying to quantify. Each domain name, when both SLD and TLD are considered as package, is unique. So it could be argued all are completely rare.

    Now it is true that some names have more names similar to them, but that lack of rareness actually, in many cases, makes them more valuable since names of that type have greater utility.

    Some of your criteria seem to measure something meaningful, but not for rareness. For example, a word in a dictionary. Surely a totally made up word is more rare than a dictionary word. But a common dictionary word, in most cases, is more valuable. Also an unusual dictionary word is more rare, but it is also, in most cases (except for the ones I have acquired :xf.grin:) not as valuable as more well-known dictionary words.

    Personally, I think the important measure is value, not rareness.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  8. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP

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    How aged the domain is, are difficult to manipulate

    “different TLDs taken” is stupid; many not sites
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  9. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Let's look at a terms Demand.

    Def: Demand

    economics : willingness and ability to purchase a commodity or service

    the quantity of a commodity or service wanted at a specified price and time
    * supply and demand

    a seeking or state of being sought after
    * in great demand as an entertainer

    The level of demand that exists for a domain isn't just about how many extensions are taken or how many websites exist that include the term, but how many of those domains are developed into successful and functioning websites and ultimately how popular those websites are.

    If all the extensions for a term are taken but none of the domains that use the term ever get developed then that term is pretty much useless or worthless and that will be reflected in the value of all the related domains.

    It's as if an entertainer let's say a standup comic is booked at dozens of comedy clubs but no one shows up. Okay, maybe everyone is in lockdown but before that :) this comic better get a day job because he's not in demand.

    The same goes for a domain name. If lots of the same term get registered, but none of those terms ever get used to make a popular website, then there isn't enough demand to make the domain valuable.

    So the bottom line is the value of high demand ultimately comes from the customers of the websites. They will determine the demand by visiting the domains that use the terms. The value really doesn't come from the demand of the domain buyers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  10. biggie

    biggie GreenFriendly.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    the thought OP may have in mind,
    is more about "rareness" in the availability of certain domains and some categories of domains, where the owners have never offered them for sale, so the opportunity to purchase them has never been available.

    but that rarity is tied to quality and demand,
    and no other metrics need be used to rate a domain.

    imo...
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  11. Samer

    Samer Top Contributor VIP

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    i look at it this way...

    As more and more domains “drops”

    The older ones “rarer” Even 3L 4L.com drop!
    But # ext reg’d does not make it rarer to me.. Sorry.
    But “aged” “rare” doesnt always correlate to “value” still!

    I’ve seen some “aged” garbage!! :xf.laugh:
    “Not many 1999 domains, but is it valuable if it sucks?”
    So many people get consumed by the stats; it’s a combo
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  12. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Yes, good point but just using the term rare or "rareness" doesn't make it valuable which is really what the "zephs" - rareness points scale is trying to do at least I think it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  13. Berserker

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    No offence, but I quite disagree with everything you said, Brad.
    Question of POV, I guess. For a domain, DEMAND is how many people want it and/or register it (and/or buy it from someone else). It doesn't matter if it's only domainers believing in FUTURE demand and who are trying to "frontrun" end users by registering the domains to try to resell them later. That's still some demand! You may argue it's "fake", it's "not useful", or whatever you want, but I believe it's still DEMAND nonetheless.

    As for the entertainer, there is still demand for him as he's booked (and paid by the people booking him, it seems). Now, the fact that nobody shows up isn't probably good for his FUTURE demand, but doesn't do anything to his PRESENT demand.

    I guess it all depends on how you see it on a TIME HORIZON. You seem to focus more on FUTURE demand. What we were talking about is demand right at this moment. Future demand is harder to assess as you have to have some anticipation about the future. Which (some) domainers may actually do, and they translate this anticipation into present demand. Will they be right or not, that's the 100 points question. Usually only the future will tell.

    There is also the point of WHO demands WHAT and who sells what (who is getting paid?): For the entertainer example, we can note I was talking about the demand from the people booking him, not demand from end users, where indeed, it seems there is none. But the entertainer is probably paid by the "clubs". The clubs are paid by the end customers. The lack of demand is for what the clubs are offering. I get the point it is probably because of the entertainer, but only INDIRECTLY. Sure, it will probably have consequences. Usually, just a little later.

    The fact that domains are used for websites which are successful doesn't really impact directly demand for domains. People running these websites may be getting paid one way or another, but it doesn't do anything to domains. Maybe some of them will stop and drop the domain if things don't work out. That's only a maybe, and may take time. If there are just people wanting to try it out, or just people sitting on the domain by paying the renewal fees, that's as good as a successful website, IMHO.

    (there is also the question if you consider "demand" as only the fact someone BUYS, or if KEEPING a domain is also "demand". In any case, the latter at least reduces the offer available).
     
  14. DigitalRoar

    DigitalRoar Investor & Creator VIP Gold Account

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    I cringe when people try to say high value domains are rare, no, rare can't be a term for names as there can only be one so technically every single one would be"rare." Say premium at least.
     
  15. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    No offense taken, in fact I agree with what you said it's the debate that will bring understanding and clarity so please continue.
     
  16. Berserker

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    Yes and no. It seems any LLLL.com is "worth" something. Whatever the letters used. It's even more true with shorter domains. Here, it's pretty much solely the "rarity" at play.

    STOP.com or LOVE.com will for sure be more valuable. So, rarity doesn't do everything. You're right on this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2021
  17. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    Now that I have a bit more time to reply in detail without being distracted by my caregiving duties, I'll address this difference.

    Really? you disagree with everything? I think there must be something you can agree with at least as far as I went.

    What I didn't say was going to be very close to the rest of what you said.

    Please note that I did say "the value of high demand ultimately comes from the customers" and that is the key point of that comment.

    You provided an excellent 2nd point that I was about to address but didn't get to before you did. So thanks for that you saved me the effort :)

    I agree.

    It does ultimately matter but I do agree it is still DEMAND.

    The customer is the source of funding and everyone else is pretty much just the middleman trying to grab a piece of the pie.

    But saying that, domain investors can also be developers and website owners who hold their domains to use themselves. I'm attempting to make a specific point and there are many factors to consider. Each factor may take more then 1 comment to address :)

    So yes, in the short-term high value domains are in-demand by domain investors because they know that ultimately they have a much greater chance of selling their in-demand domains for a larger amount and will ultimately make a very nice profit.

    They speculate on what terms aka domains will be the most profitable based on their view or guess of what will be popular in the future. They also acquire domains they personally like or want themselves.

    Ultimately it's a combination of many factors that will determine a domains demand and how much it will be worth.
     
  18. Berserker

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    Yes, I definitely agree with this. And there are several ways you can look at it. You can also focus more or less on different aspects. For example, your last comment inspire me that you view it here more in term of monetary value, whereas I thought above more in term of "available or not".

    The latter probably leads to the former, as you can argue that an unavailable domain can often be purchased for a certain price.

    Anyway, this "valuation" thing is a complicated matter, and I've seen several threads with people having an interest in some kind of "formula" to value domains. You can value a stock of a company or a used car. But it hasn't the "uniqueness" of a domain name
     
  19. zephie

    zephie Upgraded Member Blue Account

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    Thanks all. Sounds like "rareness" isn't the proper term here - "value" or "desirability" is.

    To simplify things and not rely on external and incomplete data sources (e.g. last sale price), going to focus on inherent characteristics of domains. The age of a domain doesn't factor into its desirability, so going to take that factor out of the equation, leaving:
    • character count
    • TLD desirability
    • real English words
    So, for example, my zephie dot com would be desirable for its low character count and most in-demand TLD but wouldn't register value in the real world category. Whereas something like zephyr dot com would be ranked more valuable because it earns the same points from character count and TLD desirability while also containing a real word.

    Determining desirability for character count is fairly straightforward - there's a simple inverse relationship there.

    For TLD desirability, I'll likely use NameBio sales data to rank a TLD's desirability based on its average sale price in 2020 (or should it be volume?).

    And for real words, I'll detect if there's a real word in the name and rank it very high if it's a full word (common [dot] com), rank it well if it's a full word plus extra characters (commona [dot] com), and finally not assign points if there is no real word in the domain.

    How would you rate desirability differently?
     
  20. Ostrados

    Ostrados EpicName.com VIP

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    rare.com is the rarest domain in the rare category, what is the reason for that? Because rare is the best word that can describe how rare something is!

    Lets take a serious example TheCar.com is super rare domain because there is only one TheCar.com domain, there can't be an equally good alternative to it, because this is "The Car" domain. On the other hand GreatCar.com has many good alternative like PerfectCar.com or GoodCar.com..etc, although these are good domains but they are not as rare as "TheCar" domain.
     
  21. BradWilson

    BradWilson Upgraded Member Gold Account

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    To me I think it's much better to say high demand domains are unique or distinctive.

    For example, the word rare is registered in 246 extensions according to DotDB but NameWorth says there are only 173.

    The NameWorth Demand Rating is 9 out of 10

    NameWorth says there are 94 Similar Active Websites. And an estimated 15,761 Additional Domains Found.

    So that's why their Demand Rating is so high.

    But NameWorth only lists the estimated retail price at $54,500.

    Why is that? To me it's because they're guessing at its worth based on it's demand and not on how "rare" it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  22. Berserker

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    I think your last post is a good start. You could improve it by detecting word combinations (2 words, 3 words, or even more), give some "bad points" for hyphens, and rate additional letters desirability if there are some.

    Then you can work on pronounceability (I guess detecting the alternating of vowels and consonants works quite well) and "catchiness", including (or especially) for "brandables" (made up words): Which letters are used (letters desirability), in what order, which letters alternating with which letters, etc. (+ not too much of the same letters, or same type of letters, etc.)

    All this is far more tricky and would probably need some work and trial and errors to come up with something. Try researching the subject, there are maybe some papers describing how to analyze this kind of stuff.

    Here you would have something pretty great. Maybe even better than what already exists.

    You can use the number of TLDs registered and maybe the age of everything registered. It's not necessarily "good" information, but statistically, it's probably more often a good indication than the opposite (statistically, it should be correlated with the desirability and/or demand for the name). You could use it "on the side". One main note without, and a side note for this, or an additional note taking it in consideration.

    And if you really want to push it, the next level is going multi-language: Word analysis isn't that complicated (well, it starts to be), but letters desirability, pronunciation, catchiness analysis, etc. in different languages, that's hard work.

    Note: There's another recent thread with some information on the same subject: https://www.namepros.com/threads/help-needed-domain-valuation-and-appraisal-methodology.1223545/
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  23. Berserker

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    That's definitely 2 very nice terms. The first being more MONEY oriented.
    I just had a look at your website, it's great. Clean, good looking, simple and efficient. And it leaves plenty of room for additional features. Do you generate the images automatically according to the name?
     
  24. zephie

    zephie Upgraded Member Blue Account

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  25. Berserker

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    I don't really know. Maybe. The problem will be to find something when there is going to be a lot of domains. Now you can look around at everything as there isn't much. After, you will need classifications, a good way to search, and maybe an algo showing different things to visitors, like Youtube does.

    I don't know if there are many domain "collectors". Maybe there is. Collecting is already usually an expensive hobby, but here you have to pay renewals every single year :) The goal of many people is to SELL. This would be the logical next step for a website like yours.
     

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