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discuss Gun Laws

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Bernard Wright

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This is just a hodgepodge of thoughts. I won't distinguish between good and bad people. I'll focus on peoples' actions.

Bad actors shouldn't have guns for committing acts of violence against innocent people, nor for threatening innocent people with potential violence. It would be nice if society could prevent a bad actor from obtaining the gun used in a bad act.

Good actors should have the right to defend themselves and others against bad actors with necessary force. Such force includes the threat of lethal violence, and the use of lethal violence if necessary.

Bad actors don't have regard for the rule of law when acting in a criminal manner.

Society is comprised of individuals pursuing their own interests. Laws are instated to ensure that individuals' rights are not infringed upon by another person or entity. When an individual infringes upon another individual's rights, there are criminal and civil procedures to deal with such matters, overseen by our governing officials. In extreme cases, when the infringing party is a usurping government, it is up to the citizens to protect their natural freedoms from that government. This happens rarely, but it happens. It is wise for an individual to aspire to maintain his/her own personal sovereignty and ability to protect him/herself from unjust threats.

A good actor is responsible for protecting him/herself and, if desired, other people from threats and acts of violence. When police officers are capable of assisting, assistance is welcomed, but the police's main duty is to maintain law and order, not to protect another individual from immediate threat. The individual's primal concern is his/her own personal safety, and this is a responsibility that lies within every individual when faced with a threat of violence.

A gun is a tool. A gun can do a number of things. Here are three examples.

1. a gun can be used to engage in a violent act.
2. a gun can be used to deescalate/end a violent act.
3. a gun can be used to deescalate/end a threat of violence.

We are all players in society with an interest in pursuing our best interests and defending our well-being. Laws that would take guns away from some bad actors are sure to also result in fewer armed good actors who could deescalate violent and potentially violent situations. Violence is not good. Good actors with guns end violent situations more quickly and effectively than good actors without guns do. There are hundreds of millions of firearms on this planet. A bad actor with the desire to obtain a gun will always have the means to locate a gun. Black markets are real.

Good actors should have the legal right to possess guns in order to protect themselves, and others, from bad actors.
 
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Lets assume that the number of lives saved is fewer than the number of lives taken. ...because I assume you mean to say the assailant might be killed in the conflict which is a net positive that still results in a life taken.

Given this, what should be done to decrease the number of violent acts with guns?
No question, the number of lives taken is far greater than the couple saved.

Given this, take guns away. Nobody needs a gun in todays society unless they’re hunting to survive. In that case exceptions can be made.
 
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No confusion.

Criminals break the rules. Is it your position that there should be no law because criminals exist?

My position is that criminals are not affected by laws. Only law-abiding people are affected by laws. And it is the behavior of criminals that we are discussing. The problem is violent criminal behavior. And my question to you is, by what means will curbing the gun ownership among law-abiding citizens have a positive impact on decreasing violent crime?
 
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No question, the number of lives taken is far greater than the couple saved.

Given this, take guns away. Nobody needs a gun in todays society unless they’re hunting to survive. In that case exceptions can be made.

I don't think you've entirely thought-through the impact a blanket gun confiscation would have on decreasing violent acts in the US.
 
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My position is that criminals are not affected by laws. Only law-abiding people are affected by laws. And it is the behavior of criminals that we are discussing. The problem is violent criminal behavior. And my question to you is, by what means will curbing the gun ownership among law-abiding citizens have a positive impact on decreasing violent crime?
So your position is that laws shouldn’t exist. After all, criminals are criminals because they disregard law. This is the problem.

We do not need law for good people. The exact reason we have law is because bad people, aka criminals, take advantage of society.

I’m a law abiding citizen. Should rape be legal because I won’t do it? Should cocaine be legal even though you know better but your child might not? Point is, we establish laws because of those that are bad, not good.
 
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I don't think you've entirely thought-through the impact a blanket gun confiscation would have on decreasing violent acts in the US.
How would it hurt?

Lives saved because someone intervened with a gun is almost zero, as compared with lives lost.
 
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How would it hurt?

Lives saved because someone intervened with a gun is almost zero, as compared with lives lost.

Do you envision the Feds would just start knocking on doors and folks would welcome them inside with a cup of tea before handing over the keys to their safes? And the Feds would somehow comb every nook of every room in the country, collecting 400 million guns.
 
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Do you envision the Feds would just start knocking on doors and folks would welcome them inside with a cup of tea before handing over the keys to their safes? And the Feds would somehow comb every nook of every room in the country, collecting 400 million guns.
No, it would be a buy back program, like Australia.
 
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as far as I know

the right to own a fire gun
is meant to protect the US people
from their government

so they would be able to rescue themselves
in case the government goes crazy

to my knowledge
that won't happen anyway

you won't be able to protect yourself as a citizen
from an evil government
no way

so the core reason is no longer existing


but I'm pretty sure
that there is no way
to convince the US public
to give up their gun's


so get used to shootings
 
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My position is that criminals are not affected by laws. Only law-abiding people are affected by laws.
This doesn't make any sense. Everyone is affected by laws... We go to jail for breaking them.
 
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This doesn't make any sense. Everyone is affected by laws... We go to jail for breaking them.

Fair point, Joe. What I meant to convey, more specifically, is that violent, gun-toting criminals by definition have no regard for gun laws
 
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Fair point, Joe. What I meant to convey, more specifically, is that violent, gun-toting criminals by definition have no regard for gun laws
And drug dealers have no regard for drug laws, yet we have outlawed drugs.
 
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No, it would be a buy back program, like Australia.

That wouldn’t make a dent. Would-be criminals would, at best, sell a gun or two if it were lucrative to do so and always have more to purchase later when they needed. Or they’d weigh the cost/benefit of selling their guns and decline the offer.
 
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That wouldn’t make a dent. Would-be criminals would, at best, sell a gun or two if it were lucrative to do so and always have more to purchase later when they needed. Or they’d weigh the cost/benefit of selling their guns and decline the offer.
You begin by stopping sales. Then you implement buy back programs. Then you say, if you’re caught with specific types of weapons you get locked up.

Shit will stop real quick.
 
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Can you break into a home and threaten the lives of the inhabitants with a bag of cocaine?
 
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Can you break into a home and threaten the lives of the inhabitants with a bag of cocaine?
No, people can willingly buy what may kill them and their children. Same with guns...

But your argument is even more of a reason why guns are terrible. I get to choose my drugs but can’t choose if you break into my house with a gun and harm my family.
 
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You’re right. It’s a terrible reality that some people would do evil to others’ children in their own homes. How do we deal with that reality? A man is outside your home with a gun at 3am. He’s banging on the window, trying to break it. What do you grab?
 
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You’re right. It’s a terrible reality that some people would do evil to others’ children in their own homes. How do we deal with that reality? A man is outside your home with a gun at 3am. He’s banging on the window, trying to break it. What do you grab?
That scenario doesn’t exist, it’s a bill of goods being sold.
 
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Plenty of tragic cases exist. And it’s fair to assume that if a county were to participate in your gun buyback program, the rate of such crimes could increase. ...especially given the drug crisis, continued displacement of workers, etc.

This is an awful story and I will post this one only, with my condolences and respect to the victims. May they Rest In Peace.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-death-sentence-commuted-new-state-laws.html
 
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